Power vs Ultra.... Campagnolo

[rain dogs]

So, it appears that Campagnolo is adjusting their product lines quite which limit options quite substantially.... 12 speed is all Ultra... or maybe better said all Ultra is now 12 speed, 11 speed is essentially all Power, first is this true?

If I want to stay with 11 (I'm coming from Record 10 Ultra). I've always been a huge fan of the Ultrashift and never been much a fan of Powershift...

Am I making too big a deal of this? Or do I search for used 11 Ultra?

How are the Potenza/Athena 11 powershift? Will I regret picking up a pair after a few short months?

[slambers3]

I've put about 5,000 miles this year on an Athena 11 drivetrain (power shift), and frankly it's outperformed my expectations for a mid-level group. Survived a drive side-down crash sustaining only mild road rash, and once dialed-in has been hassle-free. I don't love the front derailleur operation, but when set up properly it works fine. Quality is good, and shifting still has that strong distinctly campagnolo feel. I'm looking to upgrade this bike to ultra shift, but I anticipate keeping this group around for beater-bike duty for some time.

[Veloo]

If current generation of Powershift all come with the droopy thumb lever then I'd say that may not be a bad thing.
My hands are medium/ large but I still found it hard to reach the Ultrashift thumb lever when riding in the drops. I really like the Pro Vibe 7S compact handlebars but the drop was too low to reach the Campy thumb lever without shifting hand position. I had to do to a bar with less drop. If I ever come across a set of droopy levers for cheap then I'd consider getting them and swapping out my silver lever/ blade to try out the position of the droopy thumb lever.

You don't get the 3 gear downshift dump of course but really is it that hard to hit the thumb lever several times?

[oldpotatoe]

So, it appears that Campagnolo is adjusting their product lines quite which limit options quite substantially.... 12 speed is all Ultra... or maybe better said all Ultra is now 12 speed, 11 speed is essentially all Power, first is this true?

If I want to stay with 11 (I'm coming from Record 10 Ultra). I've always been a huge fan of the Ultrashift and never been much a fan of Powershift...

Am I making too big a deal of this? Or do I search for used 11 Ultra?

How are the Potenza/Athena 11 powershift? Will I regret picking up a pair after a few short months?

Well, 12s is brand new and 11s SR/Record/Chorus is still readily available.
As of 2015, Powershift(droopy thumb button) was redesigned to make it much more durable and it works quite well.

But any sort of search finds a LOT of 11s Ultrashift shifters still for sale..

[rain dogs]

Well, 12s is brand new and 11s SR/Record/Chorus is still readily available.
As of 2015, Powershift(droopy thumb button) was redesigned to make it much more durable and it works quite well.

But any sort of search finds a LOT of 11s Ultrashift shifters still for sale..

Fair. I should have said NOS/Used. I guess I should have asked.... 11 speed Potenza vs 11 speed Chorus (NOS/used) is there really a worthwhile difference? 11 speed Potenza is quite abundant but I haven't touched powershift in maybe 10 years. Maybe it's much better now?

Potenza/Potenza hydraulic seems to offer quite a bit of value. Are these comparable or better than record 10? Should be, no? Record 10 is ooooold.

[oldpotatoe]

Fair. I should have said NOS/Used. I guess I should have asked.... 11 speed Potenza vs 11 speed Chorus (NOS/used) is there really a worthwhile difference? 11 speed Potenza is quite abundant but I haven't touched powershift in maybe 10 years. Maybe it's much better now?

Potenza/Potenza hydraulic seems to offer quite a bit of value. Are these comparable or better than record 10? Should be, no? Record 10 is ooooold.

They both work quite well with the multi higher gear feature of UltraShift. In addition, US much easier to take apart and repair(altho I see very few problems with US...innards much more durable than older 10s ERGO..no springs and such).

Hard to say which is 'better', particularly since the hood shape chamged quite a lot in 2009 with 11s(gumby levers). BUT all work, shift, are durable and repairable..10s ERGO, 11s US and Powershift(with the aforementioned lack of ability to really 'repair'..

Altho the things that seem to 'fail' are the thumb button and shift lever blades..those ARE replaceable.

[Mark McM]

So, it appears that Campagnolo is adjusting their product lines quite which limit options quite substantially.... 12 speed is all Ultra... or maybe better said all Ultra is now 12 speed, 11 speed is essentially all Power, first is this true?

I think this statement might be premature. Campagnolo 12 speed is only available in Record/Super Record/Chorus, which have always been Ultra-Shift. Power-Shift was only offered in the lower level groups. While it is likely that 12 speed will filter down to the lower groups, we don't know whether it will use Power-Shift, like the 11spd lower level groups.

[Clean39T]

Universal Cycles has Potenza 11 HO Powershift Ergos for $119 w cables/housing, new in Campy packaging - all black...

I love Powershift and am putting it on my Kirk w a 32T mid-cage Potenza in the rear.

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[R3awak3n]

If you gave me a choice, I would probably choose ultra but power is great. Cheaper, the thumb buttons are deoppy and easier to use in the deops. Works as good. Light so when hands are tired work better. When it comes to hydro the braking is identical. Also some ppl like metal over carbon levers. I dig mine.

[fa63]

Having used both, I prefer Powershift to Ultrashift, mainly due to lever placement and the fact that I really didn't care for multiple upshifts (would sometimes overshift when I didn't mean to).

[Dave]

f you're determined to stick with now outdated 11 speed, why not buy chorus 11parts now, while they are readily available? Some chorus 11 parts are a little higher level than the new chorus 12, which is a little cheaper than chorus 11.

I went the opposite route and got rid of all my 11 speed parts and bought two new Chorus 12 groups.

The new shift cables really work great.

[thwart]

Record 10 is ooooold.
But good.

This bike ran 11 spd for a few yrs, but I like to flip wheels around between bikes and really like the more mechanical feel of 10.

And you know what... 10 cogs are likely enough for yrs truly.

[bfd]

f you're determined to stick with now outdated 11 speed, why not buy chorus 11parts now, while they are readily available? Some chorus 11 parts are a little higher level than the new chorus 12, which is a little cheaper than chorus 11.

I went the opposite route and got rid of all my 11 speed parts and bought two new Chorus 12 groups.

The new shift cables really work great.

One thing I like about 11 speed is that it’s basically compatible across all mfrs. so I can use a Campy 11 drivetrain (e.g., shifters and ders) with Shimano wheels or visa versa. In fact, my Madone has Sram etap 11 with Campy cassette/hub wheels.

So the question I have is 12 speed compatible across the different mfrs?! Yes, Shimano hasn’t come out with 12 speed yet, but can I use a Sram 12 drivetrain with Campy 12 cassette/hub wheels? Thanks!

[colker]

i have both campy 10 ultra and power. The latter is better.

[Dave]

One thing I like about 11 speed is that it’s basically compatible across all mfrs. so I can use a Campy 11 drivetrain (e.g., shifters and ders) with Shimano wheels or visa versa. In fact, my Madone has Sram etap 11 with Campy cassette/hub wheels.

So the question I have is 12 speed compatible across the different mfrs?! Yes, Shimano hasn’t come out with 12 speed yet, but can I use a Sram 12 drivetrain with Campy 12 cassette/hub wheels? Thanks!

I haven't seen any info on 12 speed cog spacing yet, but with sram, a 12 speed cassette requires XDR hubs and I'd suspect that shimano will have hub problems too. The sram axs chain is narrower than campy, but works with campy 12.

Campy hubs fit 9 through 12 speed. It's a painless switch.

Of course etap 11 is now outdated too. It's on to axs 12.

[Mark McM]

I haven't seen any info on 12 speed cog spacing yet, but with sram, a 12 speed cassette requires XDR hubs and I'd suspect that shimano will have hub problems too. The sram axs chain is narrower than campy, but works with campy 12.

When the AXS group came out, it was claimed that size of the rollers in the AXS chain was different from 11spd (and that the sprockets and chainrings were also modified for the new roller size), making AXS drivetrain components incompatible with previous components. Is that not true?

[DaveS]

If you gave me a choice, I would probably choose ultra but power is great. Cheaper, the thumb buttons are deoppy and easier to use in the deops. Works as good. Light so when hands are tired work better. When it comes to hydro the braking is identical. Also some ppl like metal over carbon levers. I dig mine.



+1. I have Chorus on my road bike and Potenza on my all road/gravel rig. I prefer the tactile feeling of Chorus in general, but really like the easier shifting from drops and lighter feel after a couple of hours on gravel. Aluminum rather than Carbon is a potential durability benefit for me as well.


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[Dave]

When the AXS group came out, it was claimed that size of the rollers in the AXS chain was different from 11spd (and that the sprockets and chainrings were also modified for the new roller size), making AXS drivetrain components incompatible with previous components. Is that not true?

AXS rollers are .311 inch in diameter, compared to .305 for Campy, but they mesh fine with campy 12 chainrings and sprockets. I've done several 40 mile rides with the axs chain on my chorus 12 bike and had no problems.

FWIW, KMC rollers are no more than .300 inch diameter.

[ultraman6970]

I have a potenza 11 group all my other stuff is record 10 and chorus 10... not a problem with the potenza 11. Got it to test it, im not racing and im not a rider that shift each 30 seconds. So drive trains and stuff in general last me very long time.

No complains of the potenza group, the brake calipers rock, smooth and easier to set up than a noisy chorus 11 i had moving around many years ago. My only complain about potenza is that the RD is made like 50% plastic, I snapped a rd already, out of the blue the sucker exploded (like it happened to somebody else here already), got a rma and good ever since.

If guys arent racing and are just riding just because probably even veloce 10 is ok. I been weighting why 12 speed and the only good thing I see is that at least I will have my 5 favorite cogs in the set w/o having to go custom... 15/16/17/18/19... specially the 16, 17 and 18 ...besides that at least for this area is all i need.

The other good thing of 12 speed is that many guys are starting to move their 10 and 11 out, creating a surplus of race proven parts that at least in my case never die... record and chorus 10 for fair price.

[Dave]

There is no 18T on the 11-29 12 speed cassette.

[ultraman6970]

no 18??? then no 12 speed stuff for me then :D

With 12 cogs a nice 12-19 straight block then the last 4 ...21/23/25/27 or something... heck i do not even need the 12 :) I would start at 13T :P