New Brakes - Ultegra or 105?

[alfordjo]

My wife's bike has a combination of 105 / Ultegra (5603 / 6603) components along with Cane Creek brakes.

She is heavy using brakes when going downhill and I am having issues keeping the arms centered on the rim. I have to adjust the screw to center them after almost every ride.

I am looking at replacing the brakes and have a few questions:
1 - Will the price difference for Ultegra over 105 have any difference in performance?
2 - Do I have to look for a specific series of brakes (6600,6800, 5700, etc) or are they all interchangable.

Thanks for the help.

Jonathan

[jtbadge]

The brake pull changed between "exposed shift cable" STIs and "hidden shift cable" STIs. You'll need to make sure the calipers are from a generation of shifters with the exposed cables to match your shifters. So,
-DA 7800/7700
-Ultegra 6600/6500
-105 5600/5500
etc. would all work, while "hidden shift cable" brakes such as DA 7900+, Ultegra 6700+, and 105 5700+ would not work "well" - according to Shimano.

[prototoast]

etc. would all work, while "hidden shift cable" brakes such as DA 7900+, Ultegra 6700+, and 105 5700+ would not work.

Though the cable pull is slightly different, in practice they work just fine.

[benb]

I'd probably get the 5600 or 6600 brakes if you saw them cheap just for a match.

I owned both, I would not say I ever noticed any difference in performance between the 105 and Ultegra brake calipers.. probably not at 5700/6700 level either.

Both should be better than the Cane Creek ones.. I am not sure why this is so hard but I've pretty much never seen a bike with aftermarket brakes substituted for the correct Shimano/SRAM/Campy calipers that did not have reduced brake performance. Whether cane creek, icon/bontrager, cannondale's in house brakes, specialized's in house brakes, Tektro, they always seem to have more caliper flex so less braking power, more hand effort, etc..

(Just talking traditional road style rim brakes)

My wife has a Giant OCR with 5600 105 brifters but it has Tektro calipers.. absolutely terrible compared to the 105 calipers mated to 105 brifters. You can visibly see the arms on the Tektro calipers flex when you pull the lever.

[mtechnica]

The brake pull changed between "exposed shift cable" STIs and "hidden shift cable" STIs. You'll need to make sure the calipers are from a generation of shifters with the exposed cables to match your shifters. So,
-DA 7800/7700
-Ultegra 6600/6500
-105 5600/5500
etc. would all work, while "hidden shift cable" brakes such as DA 7900+, Ultegra 6700+, and 105 5700+ would not work.

Nah I have 6600 shifters and 6700 brakes and they work every bit as well as my 5800 brakes/levers

[jtbadge]

Fair enough. This is just the party line.

[mtechnica]

Also to respond to the OP the current gen 105 and Ultegra brakes probably perform identically the difference being weight. I’d look for Ultegra brakes though, 6500-present should all be good just make sure to get new (Shimano brand dura Ace) pads in the cartridge style holder - don’t eff around with anything but the dura ace pads.

[pasadena]

just the calipers- go for the R8000 Ultegra.

The R7000 105 are nearly the same price, so might as well just get the lighter and nicer finished Ultegra ones.

[alfordjo]

Fair enough. This is just the party line.

Shame on you for following the rules! :)

Or shame on the other for breaking the rules! :no:

[dave thompson]

I'll counter the above with the recommendation of running KoolStop salmon pads. These, IMO,give the best feel, modulation grip of most anything I've found.

[jtbadge]

Shame on you for following the rules! :)

Or shame on the other for breaking the rules! :no:


Haha.

I think we can all agree, at least, that any Shimano dual pivot caliper will be an improvement over the current setup.

[AngryScientist]

since the OP's main specific complaint was keeping the brake centered, i suspect maybe a set-up issue.

do you have one of the knurled star washers between the brake and the frame, and have the brake bolt torqued down properly? braking force should have no effect on a properly mounted brake caliper with regard to centering.

https://static.modernbike.com/Product_Images/large_63830_20150514030411.jpg

[alfordjo]

since the OP's main specific complaint was keeping the brake centered, i suspect maybe a set-up issue.

do you have one of the knurled star washers between the brake and the frame, and have the brake bolt torqued down properly? braking force should have no effect on a properly mounted brake caliper with regard to centering.


The front brake does have the star washer between the brake and frame. The rear brake has a star washer but not against the frame...there is another flat washer against the frame.

I have not checked torque yet.

[zzy]

Mixing SLR-EV brakes with older STIs is a bad idea because they don't pull enough cable to fully actuate the brake correctly. This is NOT a 'B' compatibility thing - it is downright dangerous. SLR-EV pulls significantly more cable at a different ratio. Using the new STIs with older brakes works but results in a very stiff and dead feeling brake with bad leverage. Yes I realize some people here have done it and didn't die but it is foolish and not just the usual Shimano parsnicikity-ness.

I recently tired to set up Shimano 6800 mech discs with 7800 STIs for a customer who insisted and it was a disaster. Even with the pads almost rubbing and perfectly aligned it still didn't fully actuate the brake and had less than half the power it should.

[alfordjo]

The front brake does have the star washer between the brake and frame. The rear brake has a star washer but not against the frame...there is another flat washer against the frame.

I have not checked torque yet.

Torque is fine. Looks like new brakes in order.

[ultraman6970]

You can literally lock wheels with the potenza calipers, cant even imagine how the SR feels like. BTW no idea if the caliper or the lever is the one that makes the trick but those suckers IMO the potenza calipers work better than the old 10 speed records, pre skeleton. Heck better than skeleton athena IMO.

I weight 200+ pounds, I had lock the rear wheel with my a$$ seated and in dry pavement using those potenza calipers.

[vqdriver]

fwiw, i've tried the compatibility thing with mixed results. none resulted in my death, but newer calipers with older ratio levers was not the best combo in my experience. i think i posted here or ath at the time and others seemed to have the same mixed results, some fine, others disappointed. ultimately, i didn't care enough to troubleshoot it and just put my 7700 calipers back on.

my takeaway was that even tho it maaay work, without pulling the correct amount of cable, you're just not getting the same brakes that shimano tested so there's really no point.
possible downside with really no advantage if it does work

so in terms of 56/6600 vs 8000, stick with 56/6600
or if you want to add some bling, find some 7800. they should all cost about the same used.

[alfordjo]

Found some NOS 6600s that I just ordered with the wife's approval.

thanks for the help and direction.