Nice XC Mountain Bike for a CX/Road Guy?

[Lewis Moon]

I'm thinking of adding a mountain bike to the stable and have been away from that type of riding long enough that I'm clueless. I'm looking for something for fast riding on bad fire roads. No jumps, big hits, etc. What's a good XC bike, maybe a few years old (or more) that could be had fot under $1000? Full suspension would be a plus.
P. S. This isn't a WTB at this time, just thinking.

[eippo1]

Few years old? Maybe a Specialized Epic, Santa Cruz Tallboy, Trek Ex7 for full suspension that would be good used ones. Wouldn't go older than 2015 for the Trek, though. They didn't really get it together until then.

[Jaybee]

Making some assumptions here

1) At the OPs height (I think he's generally on 58cm+ road bikes) and described use he would be most happy with a 29er

2) Based on background as a roadie/CX guy, he won't be happy with a poor pedaling FS.

Few years old? Maybe a Specialized Epic, Santa Cruz Tallboy, Trek Ex7 for full suspension that would be good used ones. Wouldn't go older than 2015 for the Trek, though. They didn't really get it together until then.

Further to this, I would say that a budget of $1000 makes it pretty tough to find a FS bike that isn't either in need of serious rehab (and service on shocks isn't cheap) or isn't from the bad old days of horrible anti-squat and odd suspension kinematics/shock technology. The bikes mentioned above are generally pretty good pedaling bikes, especially the Tallboy with VPP platform, but I think you are probably looking at $1500 to $2K for a good quality used one that's not from 2012. If the budget is extended here, any one of the major manufacturer's FS XC frame from 2013-4 or so on is a good starting point. We are talking Trek Top Fuel, Speshy Epic, Scott Spark, Giant Anthem here.

If the budget can't be extended then I think he might be better off with a hardtail, simply because a good, contemporary hardtail is in many situations (and in this one specifically) a better bike than an old clapped out FS with crappy kinematics and shock you have to max out to prevent pedal bob, thus defeating the purpose of FS in the first place.

[benb]

If it's fire roads why not just stick with a gravel bike that can take 38-45c tires? MTBs are more expensive and have more maintenance, if you're not going to use their increased tech capability why not skip it all together?

I have a Giant NRS, older F/S XC race bike it has no issues with pedaling as it was biased towards more pedaling & less suspension capability. I have a modern shock on it which adds back a lot of the suspension capability though.

But if I'm doing fire roads my All City Space Horse is unquestionably faster at 1/4 the price. If the Space Horse wasn't such a pig it should be called the "Astro Swine" or it was a newer Space Horse with disc brakes it wouldn't even be close. My NRS is a good bit lighter than the Space Horse and has great wet discs but it just doesn't matter on something like a fire road where the road position + rigid everything are just more efficient and aero. The MTB doesn't start to come into it's own until there's deep sand (and I can get through a lot of deep sand with 38c tires on the space horse) and you start having rocks you can't dodge and tree roots & stuff like 15-20% downhills where the road bars start to become a liability.

[p nut]

Further to this, I would say that a budget of $1000 makes it pretty tough to find a FS bike that isn't either in need of serious rehab (and service on shocks isn't cheap) or isn't from the bad old days of horrible anti-squat and odd suspension kinematics/shock technology..

This is exactly what I was thinking. $1k and "good full-suspension bike" doesn't mix. Case in point, my neighbor has a Trek Y frame bike for sale, and it's under $1k. (Ok, way under $1k)

I'd even hesitate on a front suspension bike. For fast rides on fire roads, you probably wouldn't even need a front suspension. Fat, fast rolling tires on a rigid 29er would be great (i.e. Schwalbe Thunder Burts). Set that psi to 20lbs rear, 18 front, and enjoy the plushness.

[Tony]

Sounds like a 29er hardtail is what you want. For riding fire roads just about any 29er, old school and or new school geometry will work fine.
Pinkbike is where you'll find it.

[Jaybee]

This is exactly what I was thinking. $1k and "good full-suspension bike" doesn't mix. Case in point, my neighbor has a Trek Y frame bike for sale, and it's under $1k. (Ok, way under $1k)

I'd even hesitate on a front suspension bike. For fast rides on fire roads, you probably wouldn't even need a front suspension. Fat, fast rolling tires on a rigid 29er would be great (i.e. Schwalbe Thunder Burts). Set that psi to 20lbs rear, 18 front, and enjoy the plushness.

I agree with a lot of this. Just getting some flat bars and 2.3 or larger (personally, I'd go way larger) tires adds a lot of rough stuff capability to the bike.

Here's a caveat though: OP is in Phoenix, and a lot of the "fire road" riding there has chunk, square edged rock, big erosion gullies, sandy washouts. Think 4x4 road instead of a graded gravel path. You could ride your cross or gravel bike on knobby 40s there, but there's some benefit to 100mm or 120mm of front travel there. Plus, he may eventually decide to start sampling PHXs fine network of singletrack, which will no doubt be a gateway drug to weekends in Sedona or Flagstaff or Showlow shredding the gnar. ;):hello:


Here's an example of a modern hardtail sub $1K
(https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bik/d/gilbert-2018-giant-fathom-1-29er/6939782929.html)

Here's an example of how even a 7 year old FSXC bike (https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bik/d/scottsdale-2012-santa-cruz-tallboy-29/6931856094.html) in decent condition is north of $2k.

[sjbraun]

I've got a Niner MCR, Reynolds 853,) XT components

Hasn't been ridden in more than two years, $800 pluc shipping?

PM me if interested.

[Likes2ridefar]

I agree with a lot of this. Just getting some flat bars and 2.3 or larger (personally, I'd go way larger) tires adds a lot of rough stuff capability to the bike.

Here's a caveat though: OP is in Phoenix, and a lot of the "fire road" riding there has chunk, square edged rock, big erosion gullies, sandy washouts. Think 4x4 road instead of a graded gravel path. You could ride your cross or gravel bike on knobby 40s there, but there's some benefit to 100mm or 120mm of front travel there. Plus, he may eventually decide to start sampling PHXs fine network of singletrack, which will no doubt be a gateway drug to weekends in Sedona or Flagstaff or Showlow shredding the gnar. ;):hello:


Here's an example of a modern hardtail sub $1K
(https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bik/d/gilbert-2018-giant-fathom-1-29er/6939782929.html)

Here's an example of how even a 7 year old FSXC bike (https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bik/d/scottsdale-2012-santa-cruz-tallboy-29/6931856094.html) in decent condition is north of $2k.

Accurate assessment of the gravel here. I ride a 32mm tire Roubaix (future shock and cgr post) on those roads around Sedona/Flag/Payson and get the crap kicked out of me. I’m also looking towards a mtb to use instead. It’s not only jarring but dangerous. I’ve crashed more this year venturing into the wild than I did during my racing years on the road...I’ll get a 29er with front suspension.

IMO full suspension is overkill for most the gravel I’ve seen unless you can swing the high end race type FS and then just use really fast tires.

[p nut]

I agree with a lot of this. Just getting some flat bars and 2.3 or larger (personally, I'd go way larger) tires adds a lot of rough stuff capability to the bike.

Here's a caveat though: OP is in Phoenix, and a lot of the "fire road" riding there has chunk, square edged rock, big erosion gullies, sandy washouts. Think 4x4 road instead of a graded gravel path. You could ride your cross or gravel bike on knobby 40s there, but there's some benefit to 100mm or 120mm of front travel there. Plus, he may eventually decide to start sampling PHXs fine network of singletrack, which will no doubt be a gateway drug to weekends in Sedona or Flagstaff or Showlow shredding the gnar. ;):hello:


Here's an example of a modern hardtail sub $1K
(https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bik/d/gilbert-2018-giant-fathom-1-29er/6939782929.html)

Here's an example of how even a 7 year old FSXC bike (https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bik/d/scottsdale-2012-santa-cruz-tallboy-29/6931856094.html) in decent condition is north of $2k.

Good point. I'm out west as well (Utah), but FS roads here are bit tamer than AZ.

Hmmm. Now I'm thinking if he's a "sit-n-spin" type rider, maybe an FS XC would be better for him. I think he should up his budget to $2k+ and look for something like a Scott Spark, Trek Top Fuel, etc.

[PeregrineA1]

A buddy of mine picked up a decent one year old Trek that had been a rental at Mammoth Mountain for $800.00. Threw another $300 in tune a repair at it. Nice FS rider with really thrashed paint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[j102]

I agree with those who recommended a hardtail with 2.3 tires or larger. It would be faster and would “ride/feel” better.
If he is not jumping or doing anything crazy, a hardtail would be enough.

[andeww]

At this time i think you go with a hardtail 29. Really anything you can find at a good price and decent build. I would personally look out for a 1X drivetrain, Shimano Brakes and Tubeless setup. Down the road you can bring that build over to a FS frame if needed.



Here's an example of a modern hardtail sub $1K
(https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bik/d/gilbert-2018-giant-fathom-1-29er/6939782929.html)

Here's an example of how even a 7 year old FSXC bike (https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bik/d/scottsdale-2012-santa-cruz-tallboy-29/6931856094.html) in decent condition is north of $2k.

That santa cruz looks so dated for $2600-
that hardtail fits the bill IMO if you want to stay sub 1k

[Lewis Moon]

Yeah, a hard tail would fit the bill. Will go that route.

[joosttx]

Few years old? Maybe a Specialized Epic, Santa Cruz Tallboy, Trek Ex7 for full suspension that would be good used ones. Wouldn't go older than 2015 for the Trek, though. They didn't really get it together until then.

This is a good list.

[gdw]

Another vote for a 29er hardtail with front suspension.. You can probable find a Salsa Mariachi or Soma Juice with XT components and a quality fork for under a $1000.

[p nut]

No affiliation, but I've always liked these Spots:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spot-Longboard-29er-Hardtail/173979943358?hash=item28820341be:g:7TsAAOSwogNdGU2 x

[benb]

There's a lot of expertise on this board about used road bike online sales.

Maybe we're a bit naive with MTBs... I bet they are inflated in value just like a lot of road bike sales.

There are lots and lots of things that can go wrong on MTBs. 7 year old FS bike for sale for $2600 there's absolutely 0 guarantee that you're not going to buy that bike and immediately have a shock or disc brake or something fail and immediately be out $500+ just to get the bike rideable again.

I would be thinking about negotiating pretty hard on some of this stuff. Original Shock or Brakes on a FS MTB or a Fork that had never been serviced I would immediately start looking really carefully and negotiating if I thought major maintenance was imminent. If I was looking at a such a bike I'd be going and reading 7 year old archives over on MTBR or something to try and figure out what the weak points of the bike were. Replacing a shock can be a major PITA on these bikes.. mine broke right at 7 years, and IIRC I had to replace the brakes around then too. The brakes were cake but the shock was a little tricky figuring out what would work, I had to contact the frame manufacturer & the shock manufacturer to figure out which exact model of shock I needed, what adapter hardware was required, and then I had to build myself a press to install the correct mounting hardware in the shock.

[CMiller]

I'd run fast away from any full suspension bike for $1,000. Too many things to go wrong and a lot of things to learn about the suspension.

I would get the fanciest, lightest, old school 29er hardtail cross country bike you can find. Anything with a quick release rear drops in value big time, but shouldn't matter if you are just starting out and want a feel for the different type of riding. If the suspension goes out or feels cheap then put a steel fork on it from Soma/Surly and see if you like that type of riding.

If you love it, buy a fancier one!

Here's an example from a quick craigslist search
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/d/sacramento-2011-specialized-stumpjumper/6945362465.html

[Jaybee]

There's a lot of expertise on this board about used road bike online sales.

Maybe we're a bit naive with MTBs... I bet they are inflated in value just like a lot of road bike sales.

There are lots and lots of things that can go wrong on MTBs. 7 year old FS bike for sale for $2600 there's absolutely 0 guarantee that you're not going to buy that bike and immediately have a shock or disc brake or something fail and immediately be out $500+ just to get the bike rideable again.

I would be thinking about negotiating pretty hard on some of this stuff. Original Shock or Brakes on a FS MTB or a Fork that had never been serviced I would immediately start looking really carefully and negotiating if I thought major maintenance was imminent. If I was looking at a such a bike I'd be going and reading 7 year old archives over on MTBR or something to try and figure out what the weak points of the bike were. Replacing a shock can be a major PITA on these bikes.. mine broke right at 7 years, and IIRC I had to replace the brakes around then too. The brakes were cake but the shock was a little tricky figuring out what would work, I had to contact the frame manufacturer & the shock manufacturer to figure out which exact model of shock I needed, what adapter hardware was required, and then I had to build myself a press to install the correct mounting hardware in the shock.

This is all true. I posted the $2600 Gen1 Tallboy just as an example of what you are looking at to get into something FS and carbon that was probably a $6500 bike when it came out. There are plenty of other $2000-$2500 FS bikes on the PHX craigslist to further this point and emphasize that you're not getting value.

To be clear, I am not advocating that anyone spend their money there - if you have $2600 to spend on a FS MTB, advances in geometry alone would recommend that you find something made in the last 2-3 years that might be alloy with midrange components. Especially if you are new to the world of shocks and forks and dropper posts, a demo or rental bike from last season might be a nice way to get into something decent.

Used MTBs can look pretty nice but be totally thrashed. Case in point, my Hightower looks great, 2 tiny chips in the paint and some crank-shoe rub are all that separate it from appearing new. But I know the hack that rides it, and what kind of sloppy lines he chooses and stupid decisions he makes and the actual use is much worse than the appearance. Thankfully it's a Santa Cruz, so it's got a lifetime warranty on the frame and the bearings.

[Lewis Moon]

So...going to play the ignorance card to the hilt:
What are some good 29er models/brands that might fit my specs? The last MTB I owned was a mid 90's A1 aluminum Skunkhumper with a really bad Manitou fork.

[Likes2ridefar]

I bought an used high end Gary fisher super fly carbon 29er for my wife a few years ago on this forum for 700 or 800, thought it was a great deal, and it’s a nice bike don’t get me wrong, but since it had mostly sat around I had to have the brakes bled, one ended up having to be replaced, new tires, and the fork rebuilt. Ended up adding something like 300 to 400 to the cost of the bike.

[j102]

So...going to play the ignorance card to the hilt:

What are some good 29er models/brands that might fit my specs? The last MTB I owned was a mid 90's A1 aluminum Skunkhumper with a really bad Manitou fork.



If you increase your budget to $1,500 or so, you could buy a brand new Specialized Chisel.
A bike (hardtail) that rides great and has great reviews. It is a fast bike with a modern XC geometry and lifetime warranty.

[Jaybee]

If you increase your budget to $1,500 or so, you could buy a brand new Specialized Chisel.
A bike (hardtail) that rides great and has great reviews. It is a fast bike with a modern XC geometry and lifetime warranty.

I was going to mention the Chisel as well - pretty much an alloy Epic HT. Also check out the Trek ProCaliber, maybe try a Trek Stache to see if modern trail hardtails and obscenely large tires are for you. Salsa Timberjack, Santa Cruz Chameleon or Highball, Scott Scale, whatever Giant is calling their hardtail. Essentially, there are race-bred XC hardtails, and slightly slacker burlier trail hardtails. I'd ride a few examples of both if possible to see what you like.

[TheseGoTo11]

+1 on hardtail 29er. You'll never miss FS if you're riding fire roads. Something steel would ride nicely and I wouldn't shy away from a rigid fork, either. I'd peruse Pink Bike and your local Craigslist ads (Phoenix?). Thinking something like Salsa El Mariachi, Surly Karate Monkey, Soma Juice, etc. Niner MCR or SIR9 are probably a bit more pricy with Reynolds 853 tubes, but you never know.

[HenryA]

I’ll throw i with the 29er hardtail and say that in a new bike the sub $1500 Treks are pretty nice. If you run across a 650b wheeled bike that would work too. If you look a while you might get a nice bike formhalf that money. Kinda depends on how long you want to wait to get it.

[ceolwulf]

Bit of a left field option here but Marin make a really nice steel rigid 27.5+ bike that I think would suit very well what you want to do with it. And fits the budget without having to go used. After getting my Rocky Mountain Growler I'm completely sold on the 27.5+ concept. So plush and just ludicrous amounts of grip.

Marin Pine Mountain (https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2019-mountain-hardtail-trail-27.5-plus-pine-mountain)

[Jaybee]

Bit of a left field option here but Marin make a really nice steel rigid 27.5+ bike that I think would suit very well what you want to do with it. And fits the budget without having to go used. After getting my Rocky Mountain Growler I'm completely sold on the 27.5+ concept. So plush and just ludicrous amounts of grip.

Marin Pine Mountain (https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2019-mountain-hardtail-trail-27.5-plus-pine-mountain)

I’ve got one of these! I use it as a townie/kid hauler currently, but it’s been up and down plenty of single track and is a ton of fun. There is a version with a RockShox Recon fork for a bit more money, and a nicer steel version with upper to mid level components for around 2k new. Only thing I don’t like about the bike is the weird 141QR spacing.

Marin in general offers a really nice spec for the price on most of their models.

[p nut]

If going aluminum, I would look at Cannondales. They always seem to have nice aluminum bikes.

[mtechnica]

It's hard to find a decent 29er at that price. Get the biggest frame you can. As far as new bikes look at the Marin Team bike (Jensen has them), it's one of the only good bikes in that price range. Don't get a 27.5" or FS bike IMO

[DRZRM]

I agree that a rigid or HT 29er would best suit your needs at your price point. At your size I'd up my budget a bit and wait for Clean39's next HT 29er sale. Sadly I'm kidding, I think he already sold off all MTBs. But nice large hardtails pop up around here pretty regularly.

[Jaybee]

I agree that a rigid or HT 29er would best suit your needs at your price point. At your size I'd up my budget a bit and wait for Clean39's next HT 29er sale. Sadly I'm kidding, I think he already sold off all MTBs. But nice large hardtails pop up around here pretty regularly.

Oh man. That neon Kirk would have been perfect.

[Lewis Moon]

I'm pretty adamant about sticking to my $1000 budget when I decide to buy. With a daughter in college and retirement looming I want to be as fiscally responsible as any cyclist can be (insert laughing "MadMen" meme here). I also really love being the second owner of a bike the first owner bought on a whim and never rode. Happens.
I can also count on one hand the number of complete bikes I have purchased, so I'm not opposed to buying one piece by piece in order to get a good build.
I'm going to need to sell some stuff, including a single speed and my Campy 10 5#!+ prior to buying, so this will take a while. Wish me luck and keep the suggestions of good models and companies coming!

[GregL]

I was going to mention the Chisel as well - pretty much an alloy Epic HT.
Does anyone on the forum have first-hand experience with the Chisel? It looks like a good bike for my MTB needs, but I have read several reviews that stated the Chisel frame was not terribly stiff for larger, stronger riders.

Thanks,
Greg

[Jaybee]

Someone (maybe aaronpass ?) just sold one in classifieds. I've also seen the reviews that describe a little bit of whippiness (https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/mountain-bikes/specialized-chisel-comp-x1-review/), but one person's lack of stiffness is another person's smooth compliant ride. I can see why this might be an issue for bigger riders. I'll readily admit that a lot of my affinity for this bike is the aesthetics of the relatively skinny tubes and the DSW welds. In the raw alloy color, it almost looks like a piece of molten metal. https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb16840859/p5pb16840859.jpg

[eippo1]

Haven't actually sat my butt on a Chisel. But knowing what I know about it from the shop, some of the whippy is most likely due to the slacker geometry. However, I'd attribute most of it to the wheels. Know from many that they are not very stiff and that translates even more directly on a hardtail.

[j102]

Does anyone on the forum have first-hand experience with the Chisel? It looks like a good bike for my MTB needs, but I have read several reviews that stated the Chisel frame was not terribly stiff for larger, stronger riders.



Thanks,

Greg



There is a thread on the MTBR forum dedicated entirely to the Chisel.
I have one and love it. Very fast bike, very responsive and a nice ride.

[illuminaught]

Lewis,
Just my two cents... Based on what I assume you like to ride... Informed by your CX bike builds... You'll hate FS, you're right to look for a hard tail.
I think we might have similar preferences and I even shead the suspension fork on my 29er... Most of the trails I ride I see dudes on 6"+ FS bikes... If you are comfortable on a CX bike in technical ****, riding on a MTB can be boring with suspension.
Happy hunting,

[echelon_john]

I think you're on the right track to go used. Older MTBs will have steering geo that will feel more intuitive to you; newer bikes seem to be in an arms race around slack HT angles and I don't like that feel at all.

I had a Niner EMD9 from ~2011 that was a great bike and very reasonably priced. You could do a lot worse than something like that.

[colker]

MTB= dropper post.