Wheelbuilding Q: Equal spoke tension for drive-side and NDS spokes?

[slowpoke]

Have a rear wheel that has very loose spokes all around, and need to retension it properly. Velocity recommends 110-130 kgf for their rims.

Is the tension the same for both the drive-side and non-drive-side spokes?

Hub: White Industries T11
Rim: 32h Velocity A23 off-center rear
Spokes: DT Swiss butted (don't have a gauge at the moment, but the drive-side spokes are thicker)

Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

Have a rear wheel that has very loose spokes all around, and need to retension it properly. Velocity recommends 110-130 kgf for their rims.

Is the tension the same for both the drive-side and non-drive-side spokes?

Hub: White Industries T11
Rim: 32h Velocity A23 off-center rear
Spokes: DT Swiss butted (don't have a gauge at the moment, but the drive-side spokes are thicker)

Thanks!

No. Since the wheel is ‘dished’ with a multi cog rear wheel and RH flange much closer to center of hub than left, the left side spokes will be a fraction of the tension of the RH or drive side spokes.like in the 60% or so range depending on hub and rim.
‘Thickness’ of spokes really doesn’t matter. Tension is tension and as has been mentioned, the drive side spokes for most rims ‘should be in the 110-120 kgf range for most aluminum rims.

[speedevil]

No. Since the wheel is ‘dished’ with a multi cog rear wheel and RH flange much closer to center of hub than left, the left side spokes will be a fraction of the tension of the RH or drive side spokes.like in the 60% or so range depending on hub and rim.
‘Thickness’ of spokes really doesn’t matter. Tension is tension and as has been mentioned, the drive side spokes for most rims ‘should be in the 110-120 kgf range for most aluminum rims.

This is correct, but sometimes the hubs have a larger DS flange, the intent being to "somewhat" allow more even DS/NDS tensions. But there will be a difference between them, maybe slightly less of a difference to hubs with the same flange diameter. It does increase the bracing angle, but apparently not enough to make a significant difference.

[slowpoke]

Thanks oldpotatoe and speedevil!

Since the rim is asymmetrical (Velocity A23 off-center / offset), shouldn't this also allow for spoke tensions being closer?

[speedevil]

Yes, a wheel with spoke holes drilled in an asymmetric pattern will definitely help to even out DS/NDS spoke tensions. Some brands call these rims OC (off center) drillings. I've never laced one, so I can't say how well it works in practice. Someone will chime in that has experience with them, I'm sure.

[peanutgallery]

On disc front, go by the rotor side tension

[echelon_john]

Closer, yes. Equal, no.

Rear wheel should be tensioned to recommended rim max on the drive side, and the non drive side will be whatever it needs to be for the wheel to be dished properly.

I’ll go higher than the DS max for tubeless wheels in some cases (for myself/big guys) because the actual tension will drop once the tire is inflated.


Yes, a wheel with spoke holes drilled in an asymmetric pattern will definitely help to even out DS/NDS spoke tensions. Some brands call these rims OC (off center) drillings. I've never laced one, so I can't say how well it works in practice. Someone will chime in that has experience with them, I'm sure.

[pbarry]

Do track rear wheels have even tension side-to-side? Or fat bike wheels? Seems like the Holy Grail.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks oldpotatoe and speedevil!

Since the rim is asymmetrical (Velocity A23 off-center / offset), shouldn't this also allow for spoke tensions being closer?

Yes it does, since when you first build, with the spoke holes drilled offset to the left, if you did the 'normal' non drive side tension, the rim is to the right, so need to add tension to the left side spokes. OC rims are awesome..but more expensive to make.
I’ll go higher than the DS max for tubeless wheels in some cases (for myself/big guys) because the actual tension will drop once the tire is inflated.

Mee too..tubeless does take a lot of tension off the rim.
Rear wheel should be tensioned to recommended rim max on the drive side, and the non drive side will be whatever it needs to be for the wheel to be dished properly.

Yup..Tim Breen from DT days of old, used to teach, build the drive side, true, round and tension, w/o doing anything to the left side spokes. Then 'pull the rim over' when the right side is 'done'..never could do it tho(old dogs,new tricks, type thing).
On disc front, go by the rotor side tension

Good point and you can use OC or off center drilled rims for front disc wheels also..

[tombtfslpk]

I have been re-tensioning and truing after installing and inflating a tubeless tire on a new wheel build. Am I going overboard?


Don't you flip the rims around on front disc? Offset opposite disc rather than offset away from cassette.

[Mark McM]

This is correct, but sometimes the hubs have a larger DS flange, the intent being to "somewhat" allow more even DS/NDS tensions. But there will be a difference between them, maybe slightly less of a difference to hubs with the same flange diameter. It does increase the bracing angle, but apparently not enough to make a significant difference.

As you say, flange size makes little difference in bracing angle (and spoke tension differentials). But generally that's not the intent. These days, oversizing a flange is most often done so that they can fit something internal to the flange. On rear hubs, this is often the freehub ratchet ring and pawls, as on this Zipp freehub:

https://www.zipp.com/static/images/cognition_cutaway.png





On disc brake hubs, it is common to oversize the left flange so that there is room for the rotor mount - if the spoke holes weren't at a larger diameter, there'd be no clearance to lace the spokes.

https://www.jensonusa.com/globalassets/product-images---all-assets/sram/hu244b47-black.jpg?w=1000&quality=85

[Mark McM]

Do track rear wheels have even tension side-to-side? Or fat bike wheels? Seems like the Holy Grail.

If the flanges have equal offset from the center of the hub (wheel), then yes, the tensions will be equal between the right and left sides. Front rim brake wheels are like this, as are many single speed rear wheels, and some fat bike rear wheels as well. The tension differential ratio will be roughly inversely proportional to the differential ratio in flange offsets. So if a rear hub a 17mm offset right flange and a 34mm offset left flange (1:2 r/l), then the tension differential ratio will be 2:1. In this example, if the right spokes have 100 kgf tension, the left will have 50 kgf tension.

Offset rims effectively shift the flange offsets, and so reduce the tension differential ratio. In addition to reducing the tension differential of dished rear wheels, I've even built disc brake front wheels with offset rims to more closely equalize the tension differential.