Violation of Paypal User Agreement

[m_sasso]

Why do the Administrators and Moderators of this board continue to tolerate sellers in the Classifieds section of this forum violating the Paypal User Agreement? Every one has agreed to abide by the Paypal User Agreement if they chose to use the Paypal service.

If a seller is asking the buyer to pay the seller's fees - it's against PayPal's Policies - this is called a surcharge and it's clearly pointed out in the PayPal User Agreement. Easily referenced here https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Payments/Seller-asking-me-to-pay-PayPal-fees/td-p/1324189

Please stop the practice of sellers asking buyers to pay the Paypal transaction fees now!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!

[DfCas]

What if the sellers price their goods 3% higher and say I'll cover the fees?

[jtbadge]

Agreed.

[AngryScientist]

Why do the Administrators and Moderators of this board continue to tolerate sellers in the Classifieds section of this forum violating the Paypal User Agreement?

Breathe mr. sasso.

As a reminder, the classifieds section here is offered as a [free!!] service to our members to facilitate private transactions between parties. The admins here do not police every single ad, however it is called out in the classifieds rules to follow paypal's terms of service.

Secondly, i see zero problem with seller's requesting that they receive xxx dollars as a NET payment. if they expect to get 100 bucks for something, then they should make that clear that the buyer is responsible for putting 100 bucks in their pocket, whether through face to face cash, a personal check or some other money transfer service. it's simply a management of expectations. the nuance of who pays the "fees" is simply another way of requesting net payment. Paying through "good and services" for products transferred is the right thing to do.

Third - there are a LOT of users of the classifieds these days. that section was conceived as a place for friends to transact, not as an ebay or CL substitute. you are an adult with free will and complete control over your mouse clicks. if you dont like the way a seller is selling his stuff for sale - dont buy from them.

pretty simple.

[FlashUNC]

You realize that's impossible for forum moderators to police right?

[yinzerniner]

Why do the Administrators and Moderators of this board continue to tolerate sellers in the Classifieds section of this forum violating the Paypal User Agreement? Every one has agreed to abide by the Paypal User Agreement if they chose to use the Paypal service.

If a seller is asking the buyer to pay the seller's fees - it's against PayPal's Policies - this is called a surcharge and it's clearly pointed out in the PayPal User Agreement. Easily referenced here https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Payments/Seller-asking-me-to-pay-PayPal-fees/td-p/1324189

Please stop the practice of sellers asking buyers to pay the Paypal transaction fees now!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!

Not sure if I agree since it seems like the great majority of sellers here are saying they’ll take PayPal good/services but the price will be higher to cover the fees. They’re not asking for PayPal only and then pricing higher, but rather said sellers can take other payment options that don’t have transaction fees for the recipient like zelle, PayPal friends/family, quickpay, Venmo etc.
Its not a violation of PayPal policy just to ask for a price and then say you can accept PayPal. It’s a violation of you require PayPal payment but then add the fee on top for what’s clearly a good or service.
I always price my items assuming payment will be made via PayPal goods and services but understand that some people like doing it the other way.

[m_sasso]

Just to add to this discussion, this is not the first time I have introduced this discussion. I believe there should be some written documentation in the Classified users sellers code.

How it affects buyers and me on the forum is they are no longer covered by the Payal Purchase / Buyer Protection because the seller is in violation of the Paypal policy and Paypal will not cover any losses.

Set your prices accordingly and quit trying to look like your giving your stuff away for next to nothing.

Thanks!

[seanile]

no.

[FlashUNC]

Just to add to this discussion, this is not the first time I have introduced this discussion. I believe there should be some written documentation in the Classified users sellers code.

How it affects buyers and me on the forum is they are no longer covered by the Payal Purchase / Buyer Protection because the seller is in violation of the Paypal policy and Paypal will not cover any losses.

Set your prices accordingly and quit trying to look like your giving your stuff away for next to nothing.

Thanks!

Or just don't buy from people you're not comfortable buying from. This isn't as hard as you're making it.

[dbnm]

wow.

[seanile]

also
...I believe there should be some written documentation in the Classified users sellers code.
The admins here do not police every single ad, however it is called out in the classifieds rules to follow paypal's terms of service.

[T-Crush]

I'm not sure I understand the concern over who pays the fees - assuming that the fees are paid by someone (Really, 10 exclamation points?). Sure, asking it to be sent as a gift is a bit over the line, but concern over who pays? I'm not seeing it.

When I sell, I will usually entertain three options - Pick up for cash (no fees), shipping and you pay with Zelle or some other bank sponsored option (no fees below $2k) or Paypal. PP is the only one of those three that charges me and I do not see it as unreasonable for me to be less excited about paying a 3% surcharge when you select Paypal when other payment processes are available that don't require it. And to have differential pricing, say $100 for cash/Zelle, but $103 for Paypal, or $100 "net to me"? That strikes me as a difference without a distinction versus a surcharge. And for buyers on this board, I'll happily take a check (for no additional fee beyond the stamp, which I'll split with you).

Just my $.02.

[joosttx]

Cheapskates are so weird.

[m_sasso]

You realize that's impossible for forum moderators to police right?

Not impossible at all, a simple buyer/seller user code statement could easily cover the situation.

We don't allow people to sell non cycling related items in the classifieds, there is no magic wand that stops people from sometimes trying but the situation is covered in forum policy and policed by members and moderators.

Abiding by Paypal User Agreement policy should be mandatory, if you are going to just ignore it and tolerate it being broken, you will be soon be accused of collaboration.

[FlashUNC]

Not impossible at all, a simple buyer/seller user code statement could easily cover the situation.

We don't allow people to sell non cycling related items in the classifieds, there is no magic wand the stops people from some time trying but the situation is covered in forum policy and policed by member and moderators.

Abiding by Paypal User Agreement policy should be mandatory, if you are going to just ignore it and tolerate it being broken, you will be soon be accused of collaboration.

Payment is not handled on the forum though. It's easy to police what happens on the forum because its not on, yanno, PayPal's site. No one's advertising a bike here but is really selling an Apple iPad. If they are, that's some next level mind-meld with a buyer.

How's the mod supposed to watch over the buyer and sellers shoulder? Access to everyone's Paypal account? Signing that kind of statement would be as useful as the piece of paper Chamberlain came off the plane with from his trip to Berlin.

[azrider]

Good grief.........you need to chill out my man..........

[T-Crush]

Okay, so what's the magic language that meets the PP user requirements? And I'm not joking because when Paypal works for the buyer, I'd like us all to be in compliance. Example --


I have an item we agree is worth $100, and you want to buy it for that.
You want to pay with Paypal.
I want $100 and have a back-up offer for that amount from a buyer willing to transfer the money through a bank service for no additional cost (only to validate the $100 value as 'fair').


How do I state the price so that I get $100 and if Paypal is used, they get the fee from the right individual?

[tctyres]

.... you will be soon be accused of collaboration.

? Huh ?

[m_sasso]

Payment is not handled on the forum though. It's easy to police what happens on the forum because its not on, yanno, PayPal's site. No one's advertising a bike here but is really selling an Apple iPad. If they are, that's some next level mind-meld with a buyer.

How's the mod supposed to watch over the buyer and sellers shoulder? Access to everyone's Paypal account? Signing that kind of statement would be as useful as the piece of paper Chamberlain came off the plane with from his trip to Berlin.

No need to access a members Paypal account, when a user states in their classified post an additional amount to be paid by the buyer to cover Paypal fees when utilizing Paypal they are in violation of the Payapl User Agreement, commonly termed a surcharge.

[FlashUNC]

No need to access a members Paypal account, when a user states in their classified post an additional amount to be paid by the buyer to cover Paypal fees when utilizing Paypal they are in violation of the Payapl User Agreement, commonly termed a surcharge.

Well checkmate then.

Not like those folks could just not mention it in the ad and instead in direct contact with the buyer when selling said good.

[FlashUNC]

? Huh ?

Just a little light collaboration and forum treason.

[Jef58]

I've had a few transactions in the Classifieds and all were very positive. Deals can be worked out offline on who covers what, and that's where it should happen between the parties involved. Trust is paramount, and folks on this forum have a good reputation with many happy experiences. I'm sure no one on this forum is making a lucrative living off of selling used bike stuff, so both parties decide what works best for them.

[jtakeda]

No need to access a members Paypal account, when a user states in their classified post an additional amount to be paid by the buyer to cover Paypal fees when utilizing Paypal they are in violation of the Payapl User Agreement, commonly termed a surcharge.

But what if I said
I want $100 or if you’re paying by PayPal $103.30 to cover the inconvenience

[m_sasso]

But what if I said
I want $100 or if you’re paying by PayPal $103.30 to cover the inconvenience


Sellers would still be in violation of the Paypal User Agreement, they are still charging an additional fee for the use of Paypal services.

Simple, if you are going to accept Paypal payment, price accordingly, ie, what you want to net for your goods.

[tctyres]

Just a little light collaboration and forum treason.

Aaah, well if it's only light collaboration and treason, then there's no need for a special counsel.

[jtakeda]

Sellers would still be in violation of the Paypal User Agreement, they are still charging an additional fee for the use of Paypal services.

Simple, if you are going to accept Paypal payment, price accordingly, ie, what you want to net for your goods.

I’m not charging extra for PayPal’s services I’m charging a fee for the extra time it takes for me to have to deposit the funds into my bank.

Who said anything about charging for using PayPal’s services?

[dbnm]

okay people....

1. chill out.
2. add 4% to your sale price.
3. call it a day.

[FlashUNC]

okay people....

1. chill out.
2. add 4% to your sale price.
3. call it a day.

But the Terms & Conditions! Won't someone think of the Terms & Conditions!

Oh woe to the contract lawyers.

[joosttx]

, you will be soon be accused of collaboration.

Covfefe.....

[tctyres]

Or just say, the price is negotiable, but it's about 3% + 30 cents higher than I'd like it to be. :banana:

[djg21]

Not impossible at all, a simple buyer/seller user code statement could easily cover the situation.

We don't allow people to sell non cycling related items in the classifieds, there is no magic wand the stops people from some time trying but the situation is covered in forum policy and policed by member and moderators.

Abiding by Paypal User Agreement policy should be mandatory, if you are going to just ignore it and tolerate it being broken, you will be soon be accused of collaboration.

It’s not the moderators’ job to enforce an agreement between PayPal and PayPals’ customers, to which the forum is not a party. It certainly would be a breach of the PayPal User Agreement to attempt to evade service fees by “gifting” funds and sending funds to a “family member.” It also, arguably could be a theft of services. The forum’s user agreement already precludes unlawful conduct. But PayPal/eBay is more than capable of policing its own customer agreements. On the other hand, if you see a blatant attempt to improperly avoid PayPal’s service fees, maybe report to it to the moderators and let them decide what to do. The moderators certainly would not want it to appear that the forum is knowingly facilitating a possible crime.

Like Keith, I’m not convinced that it would violate the “surcharge” prohibition in the PayPal user agreement to in essence charge more for goods paid for using PayPal, so long as there is full disclosure and both the buyer and seller get the benefit of their bargain. You are a sophisticated consumer obviously, and you are free to walk away from a deal if you don’t like the terms.

[jtbadge]

If you don't want to eat the fee, don't say you accept PayPal as a form of payment for your goods. That's all there is to it.

[joosttx]

, you will be soon be accused of collaboration.

Covfefe..... I think this is all a big methstake

[jtakeda]

This entire thread just boils down to who’s responsible for the doing the calculation of price *1.03+ .30

And god damn it I’d uou make me do that calculation one more time I’m calling paypal

[nublar]

Easier and "legal" way would be to just list your item as $103.30 and offer a $3.30 discount to those paying cash/venmo/zelle/paypal friends/etc.

This is the same as gas stations offering a cash discount.

[azrider]

Covfefe..... I think this is all a big methstake

staahhhhhp........LOLOL

:p:p:p:p

[joosttx]

Easier and "legal" way would be to just list your item as $103.30 and offer a $3.30 discount to those paying cash/venmo/zelle/paypal friends/etc.

This is the same as gas stations offering a cash discount.

My feeling if $3.30 is affecting your bottom line in the PL classifieds for a $100 purchase then you are in the wrong business. It saddens me to see PL classifieds become a place where folks make it a business to sell used bike parts. I wonder how many people do use PL classifieds as a marketplace for a side business or business? Does anybody want to guess?

[m_sasso]

OK, keep laughing, however the way I see it, at some point the Paypal legal team is going to view the Paceline Classifieds as facilitating users to surmount the Paypal Users Agreement, and there are going to be problems.

I could be way wrong, it wouldn't be the first or last, just trying to look out for the members and the forum.

By the way the air is just fine in BC, AngryScientist, breathing is a subconscious behaviour!

And not that it has much meaning however I did purchase some parts today in the classifieds and the user asked to be paid an additional fee to cover Paypal charges. I did send the money by way of an "item or service" and with the expectation if there were problems I would be still be covered by "Purchase Protection" even though the seller clearly violated the Paypal User Agreement.
How wrong was I?

[FlashUNC]

OK, keep laughing, however the way I see it, at some point the Paypal legal team is going to view the Paceline Classifieds as facilitating users to surmount the Paypal Users Agreement, and there are going to be problems.

I could be way wrong, it wouldn't be the first or last, just trying to look out for the members and the forum.

By the way the air is just fine in BC, AngryScientist, breathing is a subconscious behaviour!

Clean39 aside, we are a rounding error for PayPal. They have much, much bigger fish to fry.

[Ralph]

I have never understood why a seller makes any mention of PP fees when he says he accepts PP only. Just figure it's understood the seller pays the fees.

I won't take payment for goods in form of a gift. I want to be able to print the label off PayPal. And if money sent as a gift, then "print label" not there.

[beeatnik]

Why do the kids like the Venmo so much? Is Venmo to Paypal what Instagram is to Facebook? Or is Venmo to Paypal what Snapchat is to Instagram?

[pbarry]

If it ever comes to a legal challenge, PP would likely lose this one. Just cause they made a “rule” in the UA doesn’t mean it would hold up in court. My county DMV charges an extra 3% if one pays with a credit/debit card. I’ve even paid the DMV with my PP debit card. Was that a “violation”? Hmm.

If one chooses to pay with F&F in order to save some $, then the risk of not being covered by the protection plan is assumed. We all know the risks. Isn’t the tdf going on? Why are we talking about more rules? :eek: :beer:

[jtbadge]

I won't take payment for goods in form of a gift. I want to be able to print the label off PayPal. And if money sent as a gift, then "print label" not there.

True, this is the best (if not only) way to get First Class postage for packages online to print at home. 3% is worth the time of waiting in line at the post office alone.

Why do the kids like the Venmo so much? Is Venmo to Paypal what Instagram is to Facebook? Or is Venmo to Paypal what Snapchat is to Instagram?

You got an app for that?

Better mobile interface than PayPal, but no buyer or seller protection and no built in shipping tools.

[illuminaught]

When people low-ball me, I say sure... But you can pay the PayPal fees. Is that negotiable...?
I thought this was a friendly forum for cycling enthusiasts of all socioeconomic situations... This PayPal fee thing isn't a big deal at all.

When I was in grad school (low stipend) at Berkeley (high cost of living)... PayPal fees hurt... So please don't be a condescending prick to poor people who keep crazy tight budgets that include nice bikes... YOLO but frugal.

[joosttx]

Why do the kids like the Venmo so much? Is Venmo to Paypal what Instagram is to Facebook? Or is Venmo to Paypal what Snapchat is to Instagram?

Moms like venmo so they can see what other moms donate to the teacher fund at the end of the school year.

[joosttx]

If it ever comes to a legal challenge, PP would likely lose this one. Just cause they made a “rule” in the UA doesn’t mean it would hold up in court. My county DMV charges an extra 3% if one pays with a credit/debit card. I’ve even paid the DMV with my PP debit card. Was that a “violation”? Hmm.

If one chooses to pay with F&F in order to save some $, then the risk of not being covered by the protection plan is assumed. We all know the risks. Isn’t the tdf going on? Why are we talking about more rules? :eek: :beer:

Maybe someone can file a class action against PL and try to recoup those $1000s of dollars lost in those illegal PP transactions which PL supported. We would all benefit from this

[FlashUNC]

True, this is the best (if not only) way to get First Class postage for packages online to print at home. 3% is worth the time of waiting in line at the post office alone.



You got an app for that?

Better mobile interface than PayPal, but no buyer or seller protection and no built in shipping tools.

Let's not forget full emoji support.

[pbarry]

Let's not forget full emoji support.

This is serious stuff and you are cracking wise.

[jtbadge]

Let's not forget full emoji support.

Yeah, you'd be surprised how many different ways paying for weed in outlaw states can be codified.

[R3awak3n]

Never had a problem and I sometimes as for net. This is a non issue. Its summer my dude, could be out enjoying the world instead of the terms and conditions.

[FlashUNC]

This is serious stuff and you are cracking wise.

Yeah, you'd be surprised how many different ways paying for weed in outlaw states can be codified.

When I send the eggplant emoji for a round or two at happy hour, that usually gets a laugh or two.

Emoji support within your social small dollar payment app is serious business.

[m_sasso]

If it ever comes to a legal challenge, PP would likely lose this one. Just cause they made a “rule” in the UA doesn’t mean it would hold up in court. My county DMV charges an extra 3% if one pays with a credit/debit card. I’ve even paid the DMV with my PP debit card. Was that a “violation”? Hmm.

If one chooses to pay with F&F in order to save some $, then the risk of not being covered by the protection plan is assumed. We all know the risks. Isn’t the tdf going on? Why are we talking about more rules? :eek: :beer:

One of my points being if I pay through PP by way of an "item or service" why should I risk not being covered because the seller violated the PPUA?

Sellers just avoid mention of PP user fees, price for what they need to net and every one is content.

[jtbadge]

One of my points being if I pay through PP by way of an "item or service" why should I risk not being covered because the seller violated the PPUA?

Seller just avoid mention of PP user fees, price for what they need to net and every one is content.

It's that easy.

[charliedid]

Yeah, you'd be surprised how many different ways paying for weed in outlaw states can be codified.

Maybe weed should be the preferred currency and skip the e-banks. Talk about breaking the rules.

I'm in.

[-dustin]

And not that it has much meaning however I did purchase some parts today in the classifieds and the user asked to be paid an additional fee to cover Paypal charges. I did send the money by way of an "item or service" and with the expectation if there were problems I would be still be covered by "Purchase Protection" even though the seller clearly violated the Paypal User Agreement.
How wrong was I?
I take note when people do this to me and don’t sell to them. If they buyer would be upfront and say “I’m not covering the PP fee” I’d simply say “ok.”

Well. In the past. Now I just add 10% to whatever I’m selling. If they want to send it via F&F, cool. If they send it G&S, that’s fine, too. Venmo weirds me out, so I default to PayPal.

Can’t say that I’ve really ever lost sleep over it, either way.

[e-RICHIE]

Is 3.5% that much to make a thing about?
If I was selling privately, I'd want all the money I was asking for.
For a business transaction, I wouldn't sneeze over such a small amount.
Most of the deals here are not business.
Maybe suck up the few dollars and give them to the seller.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):p
;);):)
:cool:;):p

[pbarry]

One of my points being if I pay through PP by way of an "item or service" why should I risk not being covered because the seller violated the PPUA?

Sellers just avoid mention of PP user fees, price for what they need to net and every one is content.

Have you had a bad experience using PP? I’m interested in the motivation here. I have never heard of PP going to those kinds of lengths to deny a claim, but I have not looked for those accounts.

[Bruce K]

Or we could just eliminate the Classifieds altogether.

That would end this turmoil and threats of legal action over something we have a rule about already.

BK

[muz]

One of my points being if I pay through PP by way of an "item or service" why should I risk not being covered because the seller violated the PPUA?

Sellers just avoid mention of PP user fees, price for what they need to net and every one is content.

I don't think you need to worry about that as a BUYER. I am not a lawyer, but if the SELLER violates their contract with PayPal, it doesn't make you lose your rights as a BUYER as you have a separate contract.

[AngryScientist]

How wrong was I?

marc,

for the record, i do not disagree with you. on the books it is written right in the classifieds rules that members should not circumvent the PP user agreement, and i do believe that if anyone is going to use PP's service, they should play by their rules, otherwise find another method of money transfer.

you seem to be implying though, that the Paceline staff, of unpaid volunteers, should be reading every single classified's ad and policing the written or implied payment terms. to cut to the point: this is not possible. in general, there are about 3 or 4 of us who are online routinely, but reading the fine print in every ad posted is just not going to happen.

to be perfectly clear: we are not ebay, we are not Amazon and we are not Walmart here. we are a small group of enthusiasts who participate in an online swap meet of sorts. we do our best to put rules in place and enforce them but in the end it's up to every user to follow their gut, adhere to their own principals and buy and sell within their comfort zone.

[joosttx]

When I was in grad school (low stipend) at Berkeley (high cost of living)... PayPal fees hurt... So please don't be a condescending prick to poor people who keep crazy tight budgets that include nice bikes... YOLO but frugal.

I know I come off prickish. My feeling is the virtually every budget (exclude the two tails of the bell curve) hits a luxury ceiling. If you are buying luxury leisure items and 3% is causing you pause ... then maybe you are spending too much on the vacation, vacation home, sports car, or fancy bike. So, if 3% equals $3, $300, 3,000,000 it is probably too much for your budget. That was my point.

Also, PL CLs is suppose to offer friendly deals for friends (at least that is how I envision it) so what is $3 dollars amongst friends. Certainly, not something that Causes the OP to create this thread.

Threads like these sicken me because it makes the classifieds something that my ideal view of what they should be ....not.

[jtbadge]

The thing about the fees is that if you follow the rules, you are paying the fee as a seller. Then you have people asking you to pay the fee as a buyer. It's one thing to get dinged the one time (paying for the buyer/seller protection is totally fine), but to get double dipped by cheapskate sellers is really frustrating.

[tctyres]

Venmo weirds me out, so I default to PayPal.


Paypal owns venmo.

🍆💦

[R3awak3n]

Venmo has no fees for a reason. If something goes wrong you are sol. Kind of like paying paypal f&f but worst because transaction can be reversed. I would not pay venmo unoess I know the person

[-dustin]

🍆💦
Quoting for emphasis

[m_sasso]

marc,

for the record, i do not disagree with you. on the books it is written right in the classifieds rules that members should not circumvent the PP user agreement, and i do believe that if anyone is going to use PP's service, they should play by their rules, otherwise find another method of money transfer.

you seem to be implying though, that the Paceline staff, of unpaid volunteers, should be reading every single classified's ad and policing the written or implied payment terms. to cut to the point: this is not possible. in general, there are about 3 or 4 of us who are online routinely, but reading the fine print in every ad posted is just not going to happen.

CUT



Hello Nick,

Thanks for taking the time to positively explain in more detail the relevant facts or ideas.

And yes, I will unquestionably agreed I sometimes create difficult situation for others and myself with my black or white writing/thoughts approach, hey I am Italian. Apologies if anyone was offended.

I will say, I am well aware of the terrific and can't mention enough superlatives for the amazing effort you guys make to keep things running smooth, thanks much!

By bringing the topic up my only real expectation was that members might be a little more aware of the situation and some reasonable agreement with the classified rules would result as a consequence.

Seriously, never had the any real thoughts or expectations that for sale posts would be individually reviewed for forum rules compliance by administrators and moderators.

Grazie ancora!

[tctyres]

Quoting for emphasis

:banana:🍆:banana:🍆:banana:

[joosttx]

damn

[kramnnim]

Side note, you can print first class postage from the PayPal site any time you want.

[Pegoready]

This topic is actually pretty interesting.

I've noticed a lot of super generous sellers here offering great deals, throwing in shipping, multiple huge price drops, etc. but absolutely will not pay the Paypal fee. It's like it's against their religion or core beliefs or something. People get this way about anything perceived as a tax.

This dichotomy happened as soon as Paypal introduced the Friends & Family option. Before this when all Paypal payments involved a fee it just never came up. The seller footed the fee, the same way a merchant foots the credit card processing fees.

So by asking the buyer to cover the fee, one of two scenarios happen:

1) The buyer pays Friends & Family, violates the user agreement (because they're actually buying a good), violates the forum's own rules, and loses their access to any remediation. If it goes great both parties feel awesome for skirting the man. If the deal goes south, people chide the buyer for being so foolish.

2) The buyer pays Goods & Service, pays the fee, and appears untrusting of the seller which is an awkward look and unavoidable by the buyer. This thread: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=217731&highlight=paypal
literally shows what happens when the buyer appears untrusting of the seller. The buyer miscalculated the fee by 3 cents and the seller lost his sh*t and called the deal off.

It seems like regardless of the choices, paying the sale price via Goods & Services is never done anymore.

I don't think 3% is insignificant. I also think the seller should foot the fee and assume it in their asking price and not discount for cash equivalent payments.

[johnmdesigner]

These are very nice classifieds. Why do you want to ruin them?
I have no idea how to calculate PP fees. If I am interested I will simply ask how much you really want for the item.
I would never sell anything that way myself. Asking the buyer to figure out and compensate you for your fees is, well, not neighborly.
If I don't like the sellers terms I will just move on.
Could the mods pass a rule stating that all offers will be a set price? I suppose they could and then they will spend all their free time policing the classifieds.
Grow up and take responsibility for your purchasing decisions. If you don't like the terms then move on.

[Clean39T]

Clean39 aside, we are a rounding error for PayPal. They have much, much bigger fish to fry.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Seriously though, I'm not a business. If I was, I'd be homeless and/or riding borrowed unicycle.

[pdmtong]

don't close the classifieds yet - after 7 years of diligent inventory reduction ("un-hoarding") I am getting really close to the finish line. no more looking at a skewer and thinking "I can build a bike around this"

FWIW..just price to include fees and ship. and use the PP ship function (works for Canada (includes customs form) too) so you can access first class parcel shipping for items < one pound.

[Clean39T]

don't close the classifieds yet - after 7 years of diligent inventory reduction ("un-hoarding") I am getting really close to the finish line. no more looking at a skewer and thinking "I can build a bike around this"

FWIW..just price to include fees and ship. and use the PP ship function (works for Canada (includes customs form) too) so you can access first class parcel shipping for items < one pound.

https://www.pirateship.com/

Another good option...

[pbarry]

These are very nice classifieds. Why do you want to ruin them?
I have no idea how to calculate PP fees. If I am interested I will simply ask how much you really want for the item.
I would never sell anything that way myself. Asking the buyer to figure out and compensate you for your fees is, well, not neighborly.
If I don't like the sellers terms I will just move on.
Could the mods pass a rule stating that all offers will be a set price? I suppose they could and then they will spend all their free time policing the classifieds.
Grow up and take responsibility for your purchasing decisions. If you don't like the terms then move on.



Well said.

[peanutgallery]

Just shut down the classifieds, or suspend it for a while

Let the moaning forum "member" deal with Ebay fees, pay pal fees, shipping fees, Canadian customs etc on his own dime. This isn't Amazon, it's a bunch of bike dorks exchanging goods for pennies on the $. If buying bike stuff puts you in a situation where you're eating catfood...consider this an intervention. The mods keep the rabble at bay for FREE.

If an item is for sale for $15 ....and you live in a different country ....well.....duh. learn to communicate

[93KgBike]

I have paid by check, wire transfer and PayPal. Good communication is what makes the classifieds here function for me.

This pp f/f has only come up a few times, and for the parts I really cared about, I asked the seller to use reg pp exactly so the shipping ins. would attach to the trans. Not a big negotiation, but people avoid math, so...

Negotiate for what you want, and let's keep the rule making to a minimum, please.

[Vonruden]

Only read the first page. my interpretation, Literal Bob has his panties in a bunch over a mole hill...but what do I know. As close to a bike Utopia that I have found. :)

[54ny77]

How about: just don't buy it if you don't like the terms?

It's not saving baby seals from imminent death we're dealing with here. It's bike parts. :rolleyes:



Just to add to this discussion, this is not the first time I have introduced this discussion. I believe there should be some written documentation in the Classified users sellers code.

How it affects buyers and me on the forum is they are no longer covered by the Payal Purchase / Buyer Protection because the seller is in violation of the Paypal policy and Paypal will not cover any losses.

Set your prices accordingly and quit trying to look like your giving your stuff away for next to nothing.

Thanks!

[m_sasso]

How about: just don't buy it if you don't like the terms?


Why the ignorant comment to shop elsewhere and why condone behaviour in disagreement with Classified section usage guidelines?

Can only it guess it is derived from the same mind set as the “IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE!” baseless tweets?

[54ny77]

No. Of the last umpteen items I have bought from forum members over many years, I'd venture at least half were offered to be sold via Paypal. I don't use paypal. So instead, I offer fellow forum members a check, say wait to ship till it clears, take plenty of time, etc. Every single transaction I've ever done this way over the years has gone smoothly. Sometimes I forget I bought an item and it shows up a few weeks or a month or so later, which is great. Sometimes folks have shipped out an item before I mail a check. It's called trust & community.

And if helps frame it better, I don't buy from members who ask that the buyer use "friends and family" in sending funds via paypal. Not because I give a hoot about violating paypal policy, but because I figure if someone's cheap enough and stupid enough to do that kind of thing over what is often a trivial amount, I don't trust the quality of what he's selling (since there isn't any "buyer protection" if funds are sent in that manner, i.e., it doesn't have the protections of a commercial transaction) nor the ethics.

So yeah, if I'm not happy with what/how someone's selling, I just ignore it. It ain't rocket science.

And if I need something asap I go to the LBS.

and p.s., the veiled threats to mods/admins of "telling" paypal to read these classifieds to look into the forum as an agency relationship in allowing members to violate paypal user agreements? really? come on man, get over it. or go ride your bike. or smoke some weed if it's legal where you live. or drink good wine if you're of age. basically, just chill out. these are bike parts we're talkin' here.

Why the ignorant comment to shop elsewhere and why condone behaviour in disagreement with Classified section usage guidelines?

Can only it guess it is derived from the same mind set as the “IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE!” comments?

[m_sasso]

CUT

and p.s., the veiled threats to mods/admins of "telling" paypal to read these classifieds to look into the forum as an agency relationship in allowing members to violate paypal user agreements? really? come on man, get over it. or go ride your bike. or smoke some weed if it's legal where you live. or drink good wine if you're of age. basically, just chill out. these are bike parts we're talkin' here.
CUT


Wooo, asking the members, administrators and moderators why they tolerate rules breakage is along way from "threats to mods/admins of "telling" Paypal to read the classifieds" or threatening to ask Paypal to look at the Paceline as a colluding agency supporting members to circumvent the PaypalUA. At no time have I attempted to menace, intimidate or bully the "mods/admins". Now if you did suggest "terror" tactics as a motivational factor, I might agree with you here as I did suggest Paypal could initiate its own investigation and then where would we as a cycling forum stand.

If an expansive imagination puts you in a happy place, go for it! Really reads like you have imbibed in some of your own suggested medicine, enjoy!

[93KgBike]

This thread is off its meds.

https://media.giphy.com/media/OhvD5EPBxyjiU/giphy.gif
:banana:http://www.gifde.com/js_pics_aux/descarga.php?descarga=si&c=gif/otros/musica/bailes-platano-bailando/&f=platano-bailando-dancing-banana-180.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2Je3DfUqwTEGWJIk/giphy.gif

[AngryScientist]

Alright. I think we're past the point of productive discussion on this topic.

Please everyone, use the classifieds section courteously, follow the rules and dont circumvent any policies for services you are utilizing.

Thanks,

it's the weekend!