Cool Ti Refinishing (Agave Finishworks)

[AngryScientist]

Saw this for sale on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Anodized-Serotta-Rapid-Tour-Ti-Frame-54cm-Titanium-Made-in-USA-Touring-/401822114470?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jskAAOSwoI5dM4ln/s-l1200.jpg

and then checked out the place that did the resto...

https://www.agavefinishworks.com/

It looks like they do pretty nice work, and i love the new life they breathed into that rapid tour. it's too much $$ at the starting bid for the frame with no fork IMO, and not my size, otherwise i would be tempted.

My old Serotta Legend has a pretty dated paint scheme that i never really liked, and i think it might be fun to send it off to these guys somewhere down the road.

Anyone else ever use them, or anyone else to do a nice face lift on an old ti frame?

[muz]

Looks nice, too bad they positioned the downtube logo way too low.

[tuscanyswe]

Looks nice, too bad they positioned the downtube logo way too low.

For your preference? As thats likely around the place the original decals placed on frames with dt bosses i would think

[muz]

For your preference? As thats likely around the place the original decals placed on frames with dt bosses i would think

Maybe it's the angle in the picture, but my Colorado has the text baseline further up. This one has the bottom of the letters not quite visible.

Like this one (from eBay)

1697982517

[happycampyer]

I think both of you are right—the logo is in the right place relative to the headtube and bottom bracket, but it appears to be too low on the tube top-to-bottom. When Serotta applied decals (or painted them) the left and right side decals were closer together across the top of the tube than across the bottom. A lot of builders do this to make the logo more readable when. viewed at an angle, which is how one typically views a bike. And if the downtube was swaged, which on most models it was, the decals were not equidistant to each other since they followed the taper of the tube. This made the decal appear centered along the tube’s length.

[Brian Smith]

Looks nice, too bad they positioned the downtube logo way too low.

I think I get what you're saying. The location of the text of the logo on the downtube doesn't quite match where it would have been on the original finish. If one is looking at the right side downtube logo, the "tta" of Serotta falls downward around the bottom of the tube. A critical eye can find similar fault with each of the other logos anodized onto that ebay Rapid Tour. Logo locations or "decal placement" is a common problem spot for the refinished Serottas often discussed, lauded, or referenced here. Often much more egregious inconguences are present in non-factory refinishes. I think what they've done there, with respect to logo locations, while not a factory match, is actually better than average, among the work often displayed here, even of some established and busy refinishers.

It could be mentioned that, as with everything in the company's products, the materials, graphic choices, and aesthetic nuances in how the pieces were combined were not strictly defined and only a certain way. Comparing how one photographed frame matches the content of one's own fleet may fail to capture how the photographed frame matches the style of the typical production 5 years prior or 5 years hence. Comparison to references in the printed catalogues of certain years faces similar and additional problems, as with an evolving product not waiting for "model years" to elapse in order to change, the printed catalogues were already out of date by the time they were produced. Most used frames receiving modifications or refinishes at the factory had craftspersons using the current palate of materials and practices, not the historic. This was sometimes humorous, but often what was sent back out the loading dock was improved over what it had originally been years prior when it was originally new, and customers often provided feedback to that effect.

[berserk87]

Looks nice, too bad they positioned the downtube logo way too low.

Not if you are really, really short.

[dbh]

Imagine this paired with a custom Ingleheart segmented fork. You could get all the touring/rando brazeons to your heart's desire as well as a custom color to match the anodized logos. Would work perfectly with the one inch headtube. So tempting as it's my size, but I agree that nearly 1K for a used touring frame with cantis is a stretch.

[AngryScientist]

Imagine this paired with a custom Ingleheart segmented fork. You could get all the touring/rando brazeons to your heart's desire as well as a custom color to match the anodized logos. Would work perfectly with the one inch headtube. So tempting as it's my size, but I agree that nearly 1K for a used touring frame with cantis is a stretch.

absolutely! for a frame like this you would want a steel fork anyway, so the 1" head tube is perfect. hopefully they drop the price a little and someone can make this project a reality.

one has to wonder why someone went through the trouble of refinishing it and then selling it off.

[weiwentg]

...

https://www.agavefinishworks.com/

It looks like they do pretty nice work, and i love the new life they breathed into that rapid tour. it's too much $$ at the starting bid for the frame with no fork IMO, and not my size, otherwise i would be tempted.
...

Anyone else ever use them, or anyone else to do a nice face lift on an old ti frame?

Very interesting, thanks for pointing them out. I see they offer refinishing on individual components as well. I can't really think of how I'd use that right now. But I'll keep it in mind.

[RonW87]

one has to wonder why someone went through the trouble of refinishing it and then selling it off.

cuz the logo was too low!

[Steve in SLO]

Some neat stuff on the Agave website.
Makes me want to design some foil decals for my Moots.

[slowpoke]

I suspect that Rapid Tour is mayal7's:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=232322

Which sold on eBay, then was parted out as just a frame (decal scratches are the same):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Serotta-Rapid-Tour-Titanium-Frameset-54-cm/223533553916

And was bought and refinished as we see here.

[ultraman6970]

Question, the lettering in color are stickers or is something else???

[Dekonick]

Looks nice. I had http://www.bilenky.com/ Bilenky Cycle Works do my last Ti frame; Nice work, but obviously just polished 'decals' with painted panels and brushed frame - no color anodized areas.

I like what Agave Finishworks is doing. Neat!

[m_sasso]

I received an Ebay message stating they were accepting offers, so I sent them one, will see what kind of reply I receive in return.

[homagesilkhope]

Not if you are really, really short.

Good one.

[AngryScientist]

I received an Ebay message stating they were accepting offers, so I sent them one, will see what kind of reply I receive in return.

that's awesome. hope you can bring this one home!

[weiwentg]

Agave is now selling anodized King ti cages. Any thoughts on how the ano finish would hold up to use?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/N3YAAOSw1qhdePbR/s-l500.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9a8AAOSwqiNdePIY/s-l500.jpg

They also have a few other colors.

[happycampyer]

My understanding is that the anodizing can only be removed by removing the anodized material, e.g., by abrasion (scotchbrite, blasting, etc.). I don’t think a plastic water bottle can remove material, so I would expect it to be safe. Perhaps Tyler (or someone who actually does this for a living) will chime in.

[zambenini]

Golly, anodized ti is cool. There's that rapid tour in the galleries at Agave.

When I get some cash I'ma have Jim Kish or somebody build something like my Cielo hardtail mtb in ti.

[dookie]

Ano ti does eventually fade, just like it does on al. And I would suspect that it would wear off a cage with enough plastic bottle cycles through it, just like it does on al.

My 25 year old Moots used to be a lot brighter.

http://middlepath.gotdns.com/bikes/moots.jpg

[AngryScientist]

those do look nifty!

my guess is they will wear in the rub spots where you take a bottle in and out, and yes, they will likely fade in the sun.

one thing that comes to mind is i have a couple sets of Paul skewers that are anodized and the color is now much less bright then when new.

side note is that i had a set of king ti cages powder coated with my zanc and they have held up remarkably well.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M09QXpi9StM/WbKd0NW7cdI/AAAAAAAAC3o/e_IfEf7tKLA7v8aJIlIraxRYGPqJAc13QCLcBGAs/s640/IMG_1200.JPG

[weiwentg]

About those cages: I emailed the site, and the owner said he had a pair in daily use. They've held up. He does expect the cages to show scuffing where the bottle is inserted and removed. They also have purple, gold, and blue cages. They've got King straws anodized in green-turquoise and pink-purple fades also.

Not yet mentioned on the thread, but he seems to have worked at Moots (https://www.agavefinishworks.com/about) in the past.

[Philly4eyes]

I'm going to have to book mark this for when I decide to refinish my moots. It's $$ bu the custom option looks sick!

[weiwentg]

...my guess is they will wear in the rub spots where you take a bottle in and out, and yes, they will likely fade in the sun.

one thing that comes to mind is i have a couple sets of Paul skewers that are anodized and the color is now much less bright then when new.

...

Actually, I believe that for aluminum, anodizing involves dyeing. For titanium, dyes aren't involved. I think anodizing titanium just changes the thickness of the ti oxide layer on the surface. It's that layer that produces the color effects.

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing#Dyeing) appears to back me up on this. This knife site (https://www.bladehq.com/cat--How-to-Anodize-Titanium--3549) appears to do the same.

So ... does ti oxide degrade simply by being in the sun? I wouldn't guess so, but I'm not a chemist. Anyone have more informed thoughts on this?

[happycampyer]

So, I have it from a pretty reliable source that a water bottle by itself would not cause the anodization to wear off. However, when grit from the road wedges itself between the bottle and the cage, the anodization will wear off where the grit rubs.

[weiwentg]

So, I have it from a pretty reliable source that a water bottle by itself would cause the anodization to wear off. However, when grit from the road wedges itself between the bottle and the cage, the anodization will wear off where the grit rubs.

Did you mean that a water bottle by itself would not cause ti anodization to rub off?

[happycampyer]

Did you mean that a water bottle by itself would not cause ti anodization to rub off?
Oops, fixed it. That is correct.

[cgolvin]

They also have purple, gold, and blue cages.

Hmm, the highlight colors on my 'ethnic' Duende are purple, gold, and blue. I guess I could buy all 3 then put them in rotation :no:

[mokofoko]

Just a little heads-up, it sold last week with a steelman fork for the $999.99 + shipping asking price with a single bid:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Anodized-Serotta-Rapid-Tour-Titanium-Road-Bike-Frame-55cm-Touring-Gravel-/401939540832
(just in case someone comes back in the future and wonders how this turned out--wasn't me who bought it!)

[weiwentg]

...
my guess is they will wear in the rub spots where you take a bottle in and out, and yes, they will likely fade in the sun.

...

The original question was, how do we expect anodized ti cages to hold up in daily use?

Silca has now got on the anodized titanium bandwagon. They're offering a pair (https://silca.cc/products/titanium-cage-straw-kit-small-batch) of bourbon anodized (probably more like gold anodized) ti cages and straws. Their care instructions for the straws say:

Dishwasher Safe
Avoid using abrasive cleaning pads

That does lead me to think that the ti oxide layer (which gives titanium its color - long story, involves physics, something about differential refraction) will wear off under abrasives. I might pass on these for a gravel bike.

[happycampyer]

Hmm, the highlight colors on my 'ethnic' Duende are purple, gold, and blue. I guess I could buy all 3 then put them in rotation :no:...or have a third water bottle mount installed on the underside of the downtube...

[sales guy]

Agave is now selling anodized King ti cages. Any thoughts on how the ano finish would hold up to use?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/N3YAAOSw1qhdePbR/s-l500.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9a8AAOSwqiNdePIY/s-l500.jpg

They also have a few other colors.

We ti anodize tons of stuff- head badges, seat collars, frames, cages. It will rub of with a rag if you press too hard or use a harsher cleaner. I use Windex on ti ano frames cause it's pretty gentle and I use a soft t-shirt to clean things. A red shop rag, or Terry cloth towel, those will rub it off. A plastic water bottle can as well. Especially if it's a tight fitting cage/bottle.

[happycampyer]

The original question was, how do we expect anodized ti cages to hold up in daily use?

Silca has now got on the anodized titanium bandwagon. They're offering a pair (https://silca.cc/products/titanium-cage-straw-kit-small-batch) of bourbon anodized (probably more like gold anodized) ti cages and straws. Their care instructions for the straws say:



That does lead me to think that the ti oxide layer (which gives titanium its color - long story, involves physics, something about differential refraction) will wear off under abrasives. I might pass on these for a gravel bike.See my post #27 above. That was from either Kevin or Tyler at Firefly.

So, I have it from a pretty reliable source that a water bottle by itself would not cause the anodization to wear off. However, when grit from the road wedges itself between the bottle and the cage, the anodization will wear off where the grit rubs.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2601917&postcount=27

[Bentley]

I had a Legend bead blasted and logos anodized by Ollie at Dark Matter. His work is unbeatable and his prices are affordable. Check him out

[AgaveFinishes]

Thanks all for the discussion, I've enjoyed following this thread. I did want to weigh in on the durability of the titanium ano on the cages that I do, since there are questions. I can only speak in relation to my own ti ano process, but this is the best way that I can characterize its durability:

Compared to aluminum ano, which uses dyes to saturate the porous structure of the metal, titanium anodizing relies on an oxide layer which coats the surface of the metal and create color through refraction of light. Strictly speaking, it is not going to be as durable as your average aluminum anodized surface since it is a surface coating.

Practically speaking, though, titanium anodization is plenty durable for use under normal riding conditions. It will scratch where it is abused, dragged on something that is harder than it, or scuffed with an abrasive material. It will certainly show scuffing where a gritty bottle is repeatedly installed and removed, but you should expect that from your average aluminum cage as well. The cages on my road bike don't show any of this scuffing, but it is generally kept very clean. You should definitely not expect to be able to rub the ano off with a rag, unless that rag is dirty enough to be abrasive.

That's all to say, ti ano will hold up fine to regular use, given that you treat it with the same care that you likely treat your bike. If you have an anodized frame, it is advisable to use a clear vinyl frame protector where you plan to use a top tube tank bag, etc. If you're removing frame protector, soften the adhesive with a heat gun and remove slowly to avoid higher voltage colors chipping off with strongly bonded adhesive.

I've had an anodized frame in regular use for two years now - it gets muddy, I clean it (carefully) with Dawn dish soap and a soft bristled brush, I haven't seen any durability issues. I've also had an anodized Manything Cage mounted beneath the down tube of the same frame for about a year, it is still bright and vibrant. Cages clean up best with a clean/soft rag or blue paper shop towel and either Windex or rubbing alcohol - this will best bring back their full color.

I hope that information helps to clear up some of the uncertainty. Anybody should definitely feel welcome to DM me. Thanks, and have fun out there!