women / girls on bikes getting sore

[eddief]

topic was broached during group regroup today before we climbed the Marshall Wall. So much easier to bullsh*t and eat than to climb the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnO_5H2n70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4mYKA81QM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1epWR0_YSQ

[Clancy]

Women cyclist staying silent about pain because it’s a part of the female body that men find uncomfortable to talk about.

Women cyclist having surgery because the cycling industry, controlled by men, hasn’t bothered to research and develop proper saddles for women.

Is there any part of life where men haven’t completely ignored or dismissed women’s needs?

Women having surgery - that just shocks me.

Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention. Obviously we need to talk about it openly.

[eddief]

on video tape so can we!

[bcroslin]

This is a subject that I realized I have a HUGE blindspot due to being a dude. I had no idea (read: never had to think about it) that women's relationship with their saddle is radically different than mine. It took a long conversation with a fitter for the lightbulb to turn on and then I felt incredibly dumb.

I ride with a few strong women and they can suffer like no one else. Us guys are moaning and groaning about the heat, the attack Joe made that killed us all, legs cramping, etc and the women just keep their heads down and grind it out.

[prototoast]

Do most guys not also deal with saddle discomfort? I thought that was a universal challenge all cyclists struggle with. I must be doing something wrong.

[redir]

You guys have never had numb pecker syndrome before?

Gotta remember to stand once in a while on those long flat rides into the headwind.

This being a saddle thread basically I'll offer what I think is the best advice based on my own experience and that of many others, there is no magic saddle. You have to find the one that works for you and then buy ten of them so that you have back ups for the rest of your life!

[charliedid]

Great stuff.

Guys it's not about you, and of course men have similar issues.

It's about an industry reacting to the needs and finding solutions for women who suffer. It's not JUST marketing.....(bikes painted girly with flowers and supposedly gender correct color-ways.)

And MORE importantly it's about training an industry dominated by men (some are just mere boys) to be able to respectfully and maturely have this conversation when it comes up in a retail scenario. Real solutions for real problems.

Thankfully I've always worked in professional shops and have never been uncomfortable discussing the issue with woman when selling or fitting a bike, but I can guarantee you that many men do not have any idea how to manage the process or subject and that just alienates woman who already feel like many bike shops are just smelly dude clubhouses.

It's a shame but sometimes a little humor goes a long way when trying open eyes and educate. Kudos to Specialized for that piece.

[C50]

I would not agree that women have stayed silent on the topic of saddle issues. In fact it was a push from women through the Women's Commission that helped begin the process of addressing existing UCI saddle regulations at the time with saddle tilt/angle being the focus to address health concerns. I know this because I was very involved in that process and I authored a proposal that was voted on and accepted by saddle companies who are members of the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry and recommended to the UCI which then adopted 2 of the 3 recommended changes and are now the existing regulations. So women have a voice and a powerful one at which has been used resulting in benefits for everyone. Also, one of the most powerful people in the industry started and owns the company that manufactures a significant number of saddles (branded mostly for other companies) that are put on bikes each year is a woman and no man in the industry who knows anything would risk dismissing her! But, I would agree that more women riding and becoming part of the industry is a good thing.

Since most men and women are not obligated to follow UCI regulations why does it matter? There are a lot of issues involved like any complex situation from the economics of the industry, design and testing regulations (EN and ISO standards) to technical/fit needs and even just tradition and what people are used too. I think saddles have gotten a significant amount of research over the last 20+ years first for men but also for women but one of the problems that arises is viewing saddles (or bikes) as built for men or for women. A large number of men would be better served on a saddle marketed as a women's model just as some women are optimally matched to what is considered a men's saddle. Ultimately, you have to treat the individual cyclist (male or female) and get everything right in the equation to achieve the optimal experience and that includes saddle dimension, padding level, style of riding, correct placement in the context of a correct fit, time for the body to adapt and just plane old personal preferences by the rider. Are there too many models available today? That depends on whether or not you have found the saddle that works for you? Once you have what you like do the other thousands of models available matter, probably not for you but those other models allow other riders to find what works best for them and how they like to ride. With that said, I do this for a living and still find it impossible to know every model and the near constant changes made to models by some companies.

[charliedid]

I would not agree that women have stayed silent on the topic of saddle issues. In fact it was a push from women through the Women's Commission that helped begin the process of addressing existing UCI saddle regulations at the time with saddle tilt/angle being the focus to address health concerns. I know this because I was very involved in that process and I authored a proposal that was voted on and accepted by saddle companies who are members of the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry and recommended to the UCI which then adopted 2 of the 3 recommended changes and are now the existing regulations. So women have a voice and a powerful one at which has been used resulting in benefits for everyone. Also, one of the most powerful people in the industry started and owns the company that manufactures a significant number of saddles (branded mostly for other companies) that are put on bikes each year is a woman and no man in the industry who knows anything would risk dismissing her! But, I would agree that more women riding and becoming part of the industry is a good thing.

Since most men and women are not obligated to follow UCI regulations why does it matter? There are a lot of issues involved like any complex situation from the economics of the industry, design and testing regulations (EN and ISO standards) to technical/fit needs and even just tradition and what people are used too. I think saddles have gotten a significant amount of research over the last 20+ years first for men but also for women but one of the problems that arises is viewing saddles (or bikes) as built for men or for women. A large number of men would be better served on a saddle marketed as a women's model just as some women are optimally matched to what is considered a men's saddle. Ultimately, you have to treat the individual cyclist (male or female) and get everything right in the equation to achieve the optimal experience and that includes saddle dimension, padding level, style of riding, correct placement in the context of a correct fit, time for the body to adapt and just plane old personal preferences by the rider. Are there too many models available today? That depends on whether or not you have found the saddle that works for you? Once you have what you like do the other thousands of models available matter, probably not for you but those other models allow other riders to find what works best for them and how they like to ride. With that said, I do this for a living and still find it impossible to know every model and the near constant changes made to models by some companies.

Excellent points and insight. That brings up a great point that effects retailers and sales people. You can't have everything so you hope you can make what you have or what you can get work for the largest # of people. Extended test rides and 30 day guarantees from manufacturers have certainly helped in what can be at times an impossible task for some retailers and their customers.

[AngryScientist]

no one should have to suffer with an ill fitting saddle, and it should not be an embarrassing topic for anyone to discuss, male or female.

one problem i see that sales people will have, with either men or women is that you need to be able to determine the experience level of the cyclist to help them understand saddle fit issues.

for example, a very new cyclist who buys their first road bike is going to find a racing type saddle uncomfortable, no matter what. you need to be able to separate those who just need more time to acclimatize to any bike saddle from those who are having legitimate fit issues that lead to numbness and real pain/discomfort. that;s step A.

the other salient point i think is that in 2019, when anyone (man/woman) is having a problem that is even a little embarrassing to talk about the obvious first thing to do is google it!

if you google saddle fit issues, or saddle numbness a TON of information pops up, and someone who was initially embarrassed to discuss this should quickly realize it's not a trivial or uncommon issue, but one shared by many cyclists, and it's OK to talk about and seek advice for, whether behind the anonymity of the internet or at a bike shop, or local club or whatever.

[eddief]

the research part of the story even for the non-squeamish is challenging to imagine...doing.

[bcroslin]

You guys have never had numb pecker syndrome before?


It's not a numbness issue. It's a stimulation until you can't see straight issue. Very uncomfortable and thus the reason why some women resort to surgery.

[HenryA]

Smells and looks like marketing to me.

>>>>>>>>>ITS MARKETING<<<<<<<<<<

Everyone has parts that might get mashed, its not some special women's problem.

[Yoshi]

I always thought that finding the right saddle was part of the journey.
One persons “disappears beneath you” is another persons ass hatchet.
Regina Terry has been making women’s specific saddles for decades.
I ride with a few women including my wife that are quite happy with theirs.
I got hipped to Fabric saddles by a woman at my LBS who runs them on all her bikes and loves them.
Just sayin’

[jay023]

I don't think this is just marketing. We all have challenges finding the right saddle, but a difference in anatomy has to be taken account of in the choices.

I tried a slew of different saddles and adjustments on my wife's bike. Finally settled on a Specialized Power saddle. It was the best of the bunch, but still she was never pain free. Switched over to the mimic version of that same saddle. Installed in the exact same position. Night and day difference for her.

[false_Aest]

Smells and looks like marketing to me.

>>>>>>>>>ITS MARKETING<<<<<<<<<<

Everyone has parts that might get mashed, its not some special women's problem.

It's not a special woman's problem and while it might be marketing it's also something I've heard women complain about for years. The problems are specific to . . . women.

At least 3 pros I know have commented that post-TT or post-crit nookie just doesn't happen. As one said, "No one touches my Pink Berry for a week after a TT." My ex thought it was unique to her then she started fitting all the women at her store. According to her almost every woman she fit brought it up. They wouldn't bring it up to guys because it's embarrassing or, if they did, they'd be dismissed.

I also have a friend (casual cyclist) who would climax because of the motion. It happened on a bike and during spin classes.

The jokes are obvious and stupid. She quit riding.



Just consider rocking back and forth on the tip of your wang for 45 minutes.

[Heisenberg]

Smells and looks like marketing to me.

>>>>>>>>>ITS MARKETING<<<<<<<<<<

Everyone has parts that might get mashed, its not some special women's problem.

uhhh. no.

as a male who's been in long-term relationships with cat 1/pro women (sigh) as well as far more casual riders, it IS a women's problem. they almost all echo the same complaints.

BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYTHING ABOUT BIKES HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR MEN. FOREVER.

please.sit.down. and maybe think about a continuing ed anatomy course at your local cc.

[Gummee]

BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYTHING ABOUT BIKES HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR MEN. FOREVER.

There's a reason that most stuff is designed for men. 95% + of us that ride are men.

M

[bward1028]

There's a reason that most stuff is designed for men. 95% + of us that ride are men.

M

ew. That's not a good look, Gummee.

Also, to clarify, we seem to be talking about adult female WOMEN cyclists, not girls?

This forum gets ickier every time i visit.

[jtbadge]

There's a reason that most stuff is designed for men. 95% + of us that ride are men.

M

ugh. really? Ask literally any woman how hard it is to participate in this activity with the constant exclusionary and elitist attitude that we men put towards them they are around.

Then consider false_aest's post above and that the men running most major cycling companies simply don't care about catering to a market that is literally half of the population.

[Heisenberg]

There's a reason that most stuff is designed for men. 95% + of us that ride are men.

M

uh.

okay.

you should um...like...i don't know...delete this?

[Jeff Weir]

There's a reason that most stuff is designed for men. 95% + of us that ride are men.

M

What an incredibly idiotic comment

[Dave B]

Please do not close this thread or it perpetuates the problem we “should be” talking about.

Regarding disparaging comments made, everyone needs to keep an open mind and civil discourse.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but think before you speak.

[mtechnica]

I always thought that finding the right saddle was part of the journey.
One persons “disappears beneath you” is another persons ass hatchet.
Regina Terry has been making women’s specific saddles for decades.
I ride with a few women including my wife that are quite happy with theirs.
I got hipped to Fabric saddles by a woman at my LBS who runs them on all her bikes and loves them.
Just sayin’

Which model fabric saddles?

[colker]

Women want to ride bikes. Cycling companies should have women on their design teams.

[Gummee]

What an incredibly idiotic comment

You all realize that cycling (at least 'serious cycling') is a male-dominated sport?

Just did some digging: 16% of racing license holders are female. The percentage of females riding jumps to a whopping 26% of cyclists in general.

Despite what y'all may think, I try really hard to be encouraging, positive, and supportive. I've worked in shops for lots of years and women's $ are just as green as anyone else's.

It's not a misogynistic thing as much as it is dollars and cents. 16% of an already small pie is not much $$.

M

[bward1028]

Oh, you’re digging for sure...

[bward1028]

You all realize that cycling (at least 'serious cycling') is a male-dominated sport?

Just did some digging: 16% of racing license holders are female. The percentage of females riding jumps to a whopping 26% of cyclists in general.

Despite what y'all may think, I try really hard to be encouraging, positive, and supportive. I've worked in shops for lots of years and women's $ are just as green as anyone else's.

It's not a misogynistic thing as much as it is dollars and cents. 16% of an already small pie is not much $$.

M
I feel bad for anyone you’ve “helped”

[mtechnica]

I can confirm my girlfriend has saddle discomfort but also prefers a flat back aero position so it’s been impossible to find a pain free saddle, but she seems to like her Selle Italia ladies models enough to ride 100 miles and be “ok” but I always look for new options for her. The adamo experiment and terry’s were both fails.

[Heisenberg]

You all realize that cycling (at least 'serious cycling') is a male-dominated sport?

Just did some digging: 16% of racing license holders are female. The percentage of females riding jumps to a whopping 26% of cyclists in general.

Despite what y'all may think, I try really hard to be encouraging, positive, and supportive. I've worked in shops for lots of years and women's $ are just as green as anyone else's.

It's not a misogynistic thing as much as it is dollars and cents. 16% of an already small pie is not much $$.

M

you've already missed the point.

[Clancy]

Please do not close this thread or it perpetuates the problem we “should be” talking about.

Regarding disparaging comments made, everyone needs to keep an open mind and civil discourse.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but think before you speak.

Yes, please! Keep it open

The few voices we are hearing are informing us of things we never thought about before and certainly never talked about.

How else does one learn but to hear from different voices?

Now we’re hearing from intelligent, and informed voices.

And what the thoughtful ones of us will do is consider this new information and realize that are pre-conceived ideas are no longer valid given new information and we will accept new realities.

The way I see it, the happier and stronger women become the happier and stronger men become, the more free they are, the more freedom men have.

[Ronsonic]

There's a tone of "why don't men create things for women to solve problems that men don't even know they have and cannot possibly relate to on a personal level."

Men fixed saddles for ourselves (to the extent we have) by experimenting and designing and building and testing saddles for ourselves.

Pretty sure the same process applies.

I'd be happy to help if I were in a position to do so. But it's really going to come down to women designing and test riding saddles until they figure it out.

[gasman]

There's a tone of "why don't men create things for women to solve problems that men don't even know they have and cannot possibly relate to on a personal level."

Men fixed saddles for ourselves (to the extent we have) by experimenting and designing and building and testing.

I'd be happy to help if I were in a position to do so. But it's really going to come down to women designing and test riding saddles until they figure it out.

I have designed exactly zero saddles and zero bikes. I this line of reasoning the women should design what works for women doesn’t hold. How about if designers worked on both male and female saddles. Terry has been designing saddles for women and men for decades. I know Spesh has brought out more female specific saddles.

I ride and mountain climb with a lot of women. While they are in the minority it is often because there overt and covert barriers to their participation. Some of the views here show this in real way. Yes, they may be a minority of female riders but with a welcoming attitude it can be much more inclusive. Every ride doesn’t need to be a hammer fest and many groups in town welcome C group (new) riders with open arms.
Pretty much every ride I do has at least one female on it and some have many more. I think there is more pent up interest out there than the market realizes.
Heck, our county mountain rescue group is now 40% female which I find keeps down the machismo inherent in many other mountain rescue groups and actually makes us a better team.

So keep the dialogue civil and polite.

[DreaminJohn]

Disclaimer: I support the argument that there should be more gear available to women.

That said, companies are in business to make money. Yes, some use profits to serve a higher calling and I honor that. But many don't have the resources to separately develop for both genders. So they target the larger potential market.

I suppose some of the bigger fish like Specialized could possibly afford more R&D but at some point I think they'll (more quickly?) reach diminishing returns on their R&D dollars, considering the size of the target market.

Until some folks, either established or newbs, make a concerted effort to get in the game at a higher level I think it's just pushing a rock up a hill.

[benb]

Having just got back from Europe if this is a competive/aggressive bike fit issue and cycling is a male dominated sport in the US than the issue is surely made worse by cycling being mostly a Euro sport and women's cycling and sports in general being barely on the map over there.

I was in Paris during the women's world cup and you'd have thought it wasn't even happening even though France was the host... things are really, really different over there. If US bike/saddle manufacturers are not addressing well enough it'd seem that the Europeans don't even seem to know it's an issue at all.. and they are often the ones who solve cycling problems better than us just cause the knowledge pool on the men's side is so much deeper.

[Heisenberg]

i'm currently working in colombia.

the proportion of women to men on the road right now is about two to three. it's getting better every day.

cycling here is huge. and it's cool. and it's accessible.

down the road there's a shop devoted entirely to cycling apparel for women.

there is a way.

[oldpotatoe]

Are there NO Women who frequent this forum?

Speedychix??

[simonov]

Just did some digging: 16% of racing license holders are female. The percentage of females riding jumps to a whopping 26% of cyclists in general.

26% of a market with reasonable potential for growth (the number of women getting into riding seriously is increasing rapidly where I live) is real money. All other factors aside, it's good business to cater to women.

[bcroslin]

you've already missed the point.

Like I said, blind spots. Many men on this forum need to get out of their own heads for a minute and imagine what it's like being a women cyclist.

Are there NO Women who frequent this forum?

Speedychix??

I think many of the women who did participate in this forum left a long time ago for greener pastures due to the amount of obtuse misogyny often expressed here.

[Heisenberg]

Like I said, blind spots. Many men on this forum need to get out of their own heads for a minute and imagine what it's like being a women cyclist.

I think many of the women who did participate in this forum left a long time ago for greener pastures due to the amount of obtuse misogyny often expressed here.

i can happily report that the cycling industry is changing, albeit glacially. the inward thinking it's been endowed with for the past forever has seriously stunted growth - and kept it more cottage than pro. a lot of the powers that be like it that way.

but, we millennials will ruin cycling too. we intend to make it something everyone can do, not just semi-wealthy duffers with dicks.

[RonW87]

Specialized are acting as if they "invented" this issue. Seriously? Terry saddles has been around forever. Women-specific saddles almost forever. This whole thread is a testament to the success of Specialized marketing, nothing more.

[charliedid]

:)Specialized are acting as if they "invented" this issue. Seriously? Terry saddles has been around forever. Women-specific saddles almost forever. This whole thread is a testament to the success of Specialized marketing, nothing more.

Sorry

You need to go back to at least 1898

https://oldbike.eu/1898-cycle-saddles-the-anatomical-saddle/

[bshell]

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for some women to save women.

[simonov]

Specialized are acting as if they "invented" this issue. Seriously? Terry saddles has been around forever. Women-specific saddles almost forever. This whole thread is a testament to the success of Specialized marketing, nothing more.

No, Specialized is just marketing a product they put a lot of research into and that there's a good market for. People disparage the brand often, but they make fantastic contact points and they're pros at marketing. I doubt anyone informed enough to purchase this saddle also thinks that Specialized "invented" women's saddles. But they may think that Specialized got it right and helped them with a problem where other saddles failed.

[simonov]

i can happily report that the cycling industry is changing, albeit glacially. the inward thinking it's been endowed with for the past forever has seriously stunted growth - and kept it more cottage than pro. a lot of the powers that be like it that way.

but, we millennials will ruin cycling too. we intend to make it something everyone can do, not just semi-wealthy duffers with dicks.

I was just commenting to a buddy on our ride this morning (with 2 other men and two women) how many more women we see out on the roads and how rad it is. I also noticed, as the weather was ****, how many men stayed home and how many women were out there logging miles. I've been at this for a while now and the change is slow, but it feels like real progress has been made and that's great. Clearly there's still a long, long way to go, but it's good to see.

[Dino Suegiù]

Are there NO Women who frequent this forum?

Speedychix??
Maybe they prefer not to be referred as girls at every other turn?
"boys on bikes getting sore"?

26% of a market with reasonable potential for growth (the number of women getting into riding seriously is increasing rapidly where I live) is real money. All other factors aside, it's good business to cater to women.
Especially since a woman's dollar is actually $0.79 green compared to a man's $1.00 green, so not exactly Gummee's same green hue. Since women need to work that much more to spend in that lbs, let's just increase that market to ~33%, and throw in Laurie Anderson's Beautiful Red Dress for some extra added color.

Like I said, blind spots. Many men on this forum need to get out of their own heads for a minute and imagine what it's like being a women cyclist.
I think many of the women who did participate in this forum left a long time ago for greener pastures due to the amount of obtuse misogyny often expressed here.
I don't know if it is outright misogyny but there certainly are some odd and disappointing attitudes being expressed here, among the positive ones. As someone else wrote, "ickier every time".

To so dismissively and haughtily claim that women-specific saddles are
"Smells and looks like marketing to me.
>>>>>>>>>ITS MARKETING<<<<<<<<<<
Everyone has parts that might get mashed, its not some special women's problem." :rolleyes:
is truly absurd, given the incredible amount of marketing revolving around men's perineal zones for the last two decades at least.

[eddief]

the girl part was a play on the Netflix show of Comedians in the Car Getting Coffee. such a microcosm of society we are.

[colker]

i'm currently working in colombia.

the proportion of women to men on the road right now is about two to three. it's getting better every day.

cycling here is huge. and it's cool. and it's accessible.

down the road there's a shop devoted entirely to cycling apparel for women.

there is a way.

Awesome. I met a colombian girl and her entire family was into road riding.

[OtayBW]

I ride with several women all the time, including one who I used to go out with. I also used to ride extensively with a woman RAAM rider. No one ever mentioned it. I'm curious; I will have to inquire...:eek:

EDIT: I must confess that I was originally drawn to this thread mainly because I originally mis-read the title as 'Girls on Bikes Getting Some'.....
Must. Check. Glasses....

[buddybikes]

My wife had problem years ago, and she finally told me about it on a ride. Pulled out allen wrench, dropped the nose few degrees and never heard a complaint again. Certainly this can be far more complex, but communication is key.
When I worked in a shop moonlighting 10 years ago, for some reason the women would come to me with their questions, being a slightly balded later middle aged person with wedding ring on, I was less threatening.

Of course shorts are major piece of the puzzle also.

[twangston73]

If you see "women's saddle" and you immediately think "marketing gimmick" consider whether your issue is really with marketing gimmicks.

The overwhelming majority of equipment that is discussed in zealous and loving detail on the pages of this forum could be dismissed by the cynical as a marketing gimmick. 10 speeds, 11 speeds, 12 speeds, 28 versus 25 tires, take your issue. Not a lot of marketing gimmick dismissals in most equioment discussions.

The more women ride bikes, the more women will ride bikes, and if expanding the market to an underserved segment is the result of devious marketing devilry, i guess i am 100 percent on board.

[Yoshi]

Which model fabric saddles?

She said she runs them as recommended. Radius for MTB and shallow for gravel.
She’s not much of a roadie but a demon on the MTB. FWIW she is small, maybe 5-7, 100 at the most. Thirty something, couple kids.
She recommended the shallow for my gravel bike but it’s the flat that works for me on all my bikes. Could not stand the shallow.
Of course YMMV.

[buddybikes]

What's the definition of "cyclist"? Here in RI on our local bike trail guess it is 50/50 split.

Interesting to see what the $$ average is. I do tend to see the husband with more tricked bike than the wife, then again she's putting the extra cash into kids education fund..

[Clancy]

Specialized are acting as if they "invented" this issue. Seriously? Terry saddles has been around forever. Women-specific saddles almost forever. This whole thread is a testament to the success of Specialized marketing, nothing more.

No one else brought their ideas to market like this. Starting conversations using real language-and making it fun. Call it marketing because it is, no doubt. But give them credit at least for the manner in which they purposely chose to market.

[SpeedyChix]

A lot of the women mtb riders and some of the female road riders have been raving about the Mimic saddle. The challenge we face with saddles and chamois are quite real and can be extraordinarily painful. It can take a lot of trial and error to find the platform shape of a saddle that agrees with a rider (male and female). If the reception the Mimic is getting is any indication, they'll be making a good return toward their R&D expense.

And to those of you who note there aren't that many women riding, we're finding more and more women riding gravel and mtb locally. There are some group rides that are nearly 50/50. Those are groups who are welcoming to all, friendly and fun.

[mtechnica]

I just brought up the specialized mimic to my girlfriend and she says it's not worth it to her to spend money on it :rolleyes: I guess the selle italia women's saddles are good enough.

[Doug Fattic]

I’ve been building and painting bicycle frames since the mid 70’s. I discovered early on with the help of others that one of the primary issues with a women’s bicycle position is that if they lean over too far because their handlebars are low compared to their saddle the sensitive areas in their crotch becomes uncomfortable. The solution for many is to raise the handlebars so they are at least as high as their saddle. This isn’t a hard and fast rule but for some a higher handlebar height solves their discomfort.

In the old days with level or nearly level top tubes, it could be difficult to raise the handlebars high enough – especially with production frames. If the frame was small enough so they could stand comfortably over the top tube it might not be possible to raise the stem high enough without going beyond the max line.

However one solution causes other problems. As the handlebars are raised the seat needs to go further back to keep the same torso/upper leg angle and that requires a shallower seat angle. This pulls the whole front end back bringing toes into possible contact with the front wheel. That is why 700c wheels are often too big for smaller women. The production bike solution of a steep seat angle combined with a swallow head angle (to get a shorter top tube) might keep their lawyers happy but not women riders wanting to find their best riding position.

I would guess that more than half of my custom frame customers over the years have been women with average to shorter than average height looking for ways to optimize their position without having to make compromises.

[Bruce K]

At the Greenfield (MA) Crit last weekend, the Women’ Pro, 1,2,3 field was bigger than the Men’s.

They are no longer a niche but rather a serious segment of the cycling population and deserve to have appropriate equipment designed and marketed to/for them.

BK

[Gummee]

I feel bad for anyone you’ve “helped”

Please explain to me exactly how you've jumped to that conclusion. G'head. I'll wait.

M

[bward1028]

Sorry, i can't post it publicly because it'll get the thread closed. if you really need it explained, shoot me a pm.

[HenryA]

Snipped.....

To so dismissively and haughtily claim that women-specific saddles are
"Smells and looks like marketing to me.
>>>>>>>>>ITS MARKETING<<<<<<<<<<
Everyone has parts that might get mashed, its not some special women's problem." :rolleyes:
is truly absurd, given the incredible amount of marketing revolving around men's perineal zones for the last two decades at least.

You missed the point while climbing onto your soapbox to spout at us.

The vids are about a Specialized saddle for women. A product is rolled out in faux viral video campaign. Women's saddles have been a “thing” for decades. The Mimic is the newest, I suppose.

My comments were first about a product promotion, then that everyone has their own special parts to avoid smashing on a bike saddle. How you find that to be dismissive of anyone’s saddle problem is beyond me.

But the important thing is that you got to scold someone.

[joosttx]

Sorry, i can't post it publicly because it'll get the thread closed. if you really need it explained, shoot me a pm.

I highly encourage you to speak your mind in a post as It will kill two birds with one stone.

[bshell]

Unfortunately the web is a fertile ground for know-it-alls and white knights looking to rack up wins and find villains where there isn't one --as if there is a cosmic tote board or something.

No one is putting up barriers to exclude women from riding a bike (or "cycling"). People are generally good. If you can't find those people, ride solo. And try out a bunch of saddles and shorts and tilt and fore/aft like everyone else does. If you can't find what you want and it's important, make your own.

The forum is not 'icky'. But there is a weird guilt and ickiness in the thread with the mixed signals, misinterpretations, and misplaced blame (masquerading as the 'positive' comments, apparently).

For example, "guys it's not about you" -but also it's men's fault for not making a saddle that women weren't talking about because "it is an uncomfortable subject for (wait for it) men" W.T.F.??? We should have known!

For the love of Sterculius, don't attack someone for something that wasn't posted. Or mind read on behalf of womankind.

[buddybikes]

Please moderators change the title, every time I see "girls" I hit the roof (as my wife working her a** off tonight next to me (CPA) but isn't a partner because she doesn't have junk.

[bward1028]

No one is putting up barriers to exclude women from riding a bike (or "cycling"). .

If you aren’t helping you are hurting. Status quo is not a lot of women cyclists. Our attitudes have to change to foster inclusion. This thread should be stickies as an example of why there are basically no women on this forum.

https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeestop/news/breaking-down-barriers-for-women-cyclists

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=trec_briefs

https://www.bikepgh.org/2018/03/19/ayesha-mcgowan-qa-breaking-barriers-for-women-of-color-in-cycling/

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/235e/5da4b1838f6c85e93a511cfc3aef0ac93529.pdf

[bshell]

"If you aren't helping you're hurting". Presumption and illogic.

[gasman]

I think the discussion is no longer productive.

We need more women in the sport , on this board and riding just in general.

I’ll leave it at that.