Remember Tyler?

[toaster]

The LA Times has published of late some rather interesting stuff on the anti-doping movement and how athletes become accused and convicted in the process of trying to clean up sports.

In this piece...

http://www.topix.net/content/trb/1204403130066708631718374792660336820896

...I have a renewed faith in the possibility that Tyler Hamilton was innocent and a victim of the system before a proper defense could be employed. The bottom line is even if one is truly innocent the labs and the officials may end up prosecuting you from the start.

[pdxmech13]

hmmmmmmmm............ :confused:

[William]

http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/tkaa/images/tkaa-001.jpg

[Mud]

In my humble opinion they all dope, just that some get caught. Accept it for what it is. And then you can enjoy it or not, just like baseball, football or any other sport. All I know is that I don't dope and the price I pay is to be mediocre on a good day or just old on a bad one. :confused:

[J.Greene]

Casting doubt on the test results in tylers case is a waste of time. The fax to his wife from fuentes in much more incriminating atmo. The dude cheated, lied, proven guilty, and still lying.

JG


The LA Times has published of late some rather interesting stuff on the anti-doping movement and how athletes become accused and convicted in the process of trying to clean up sports.

In this piece...

http://www.topix.net/content/trb/1204403130066708631718374792660336820896

...I have a renewed faith in the possibility that Tyler Hamilton was innocent and a victim of the system before a proper defense could be employed. The bottom line is even if one is truly innocent the labs and the officials may end up prosecuting you from the start.

[MAP]

Another LA Times article...

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-sp-doping10dec10,1,5487761,full.story

[pdxmech13]

thats a huge snoze on Townsend yo !

[BBB]

...I have a renewed faith in the possibility that Tyler Hamilton was innocent and a victim of the system before a proper defense could be employed. The bottom line is even if one is truly innocent the labs and the officials may end up prosecuting you from the start.

I hate to flog a dead horse, but, Hamilton had plenty of time to prepare a defence and plenty of money was spent to engage relevant experts to testify on his behalf regarding the testing procedure. He went through two seperate hearings and of the six arbitrators that heard his case, one out of the six believed his defence and was prepared to find him not guilty of a breach of the doping rules. One of out of six. What does that tell you?

Rather than read articles on the web, download the two decisions regarding the Hamilton case (the AAA award and the CAS award) and read them through carefully and decide for yourself.

All this aside, there are undoubtedly some problems with the process, not the least the attitude displayed by Pound when an athelete gets caught. As much as Hamilton went out of his way to say he was innocent, Pound went out of his way to say he was guilty. The whole process becomes a media circus as to who can beat their chest the loudest.

[toaster]

I hate to flog a dead horse, but, Hamilton had plenty of time to prepare a defence and plenty of money was spent to engage relevant experts to testify on his behalf regarding the testing procedure. He went through two seperate hearings and of the six arbitrators that heard his case, one out of the six believed his defence and was prepared to find him not guilty of a breach of the doping rules. One of out of six. What does that tell you?

Rather than read articles on the web, download the two decisions regarding the Hamilton case (the AAA award and the CAS award) and read them through carefully and decide for yourself.

I did look at the decisions (AAA award and CAS) although I did not read them word for word I can see that the decisions are based on the positive results. If, in fact, the tests are wrong then so are the decisions. All that it tells me is that samples and the tests confirm what the anti-dopers wanted them to confirm. I have doubt that much of anything is handled, tested, and dealt with according to fairness and accuracy. The L.A. Times has a better record than the people they're investigating in this case and the perspective outside this sport may indicate that the anti-dopers have a clear agenda of trying to prove cheating at any cost.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . jumping in. I agree, and that's my main complaint about all of this, not just Tyler's case. There's huge money at stake here, and keeping that huge money coming in depends in no small part these days on the perceived success of anti-doping efforts. The cycling and anti-doping organizations have a tremendous conflict of interest in enforcing all of this.

In Hamilton's case in particular the Catch-22 aspect of all of this was highlighted when he wanted to have an independent lab do the same test on his blood so he could have what he felt would be impartial evidence to bring to his hearing. The UCI refused to release any of the procedures or methodology under which their test was done, allegedly because they didn't want to give athletes any info they could use to circumvent the tests. so Hamilton had an outside lab do the testing as best they could. Then the UCI would not accept the outside test as evidence because it di not adhere to the same methodology they had refused to release in the first place. Catch-22 . . . all very Kafka-esque, and pointing up the unfair aspects of a process where the prosecutors also control the evidentiary rules and procedures.

Their conduct in all of this in multiple cases--not just Hamilton's--has shown they are far more interested in maintaining the impression they are doing something than they are in doing any part of it fairly.

BBD

[BBB]

First off, I agree with your first point BBD.

There is a huge amount at stake on both sides of the fence. Organisations like WADA are trying to put the clamps on serial cheats and on the flip side (and if you believe media reports) you get top level athletes spending large amounts of money for a tailor made and presumably undetectable doping program in order to unlock the riches that result in success at the highest level.

The unfortunate side effect to all this is that WADA discredits athletes, or at least certain athletes and athletes discredit WADA, the process and everything else to ensure the authorities get off their back. It's an expensive and risky exercise from both sides of the fence. In Hamilton's case, he ended up losing out, while WADA got to keep it's blood test.

Hamilton's case was particularly interesting. The incident you refer to BBD happened immediately after Hamilton's positive test in the Vuelta. As I understand, what took place was that at a meeting between the UCI, Hamilton and the management of Phonak (to discuss the positive test), Phonak requested access to the UCI's file on Hamilton as well as documents relating to his test at the Olympics and the Vuelta. In addition, Hamilton was denied permission to have his B sample (from the Vuelta) tested at another lab and for testing of the B sample to be delayed until he received the assistance of an expert from the US. Undoubtably this leads to the obvious conclusion that the powers that be have something to hide, which is unfortunate.

However, when it comes to an arbitration, which is the agreed procedure in these sorts of cases, cloak and dagger type behaviour as alluded to, goes out the window (which is not to say it does not happen in the first instance). As a general rule, arbitrations usually involve discovery of documents, which would in the normal course result in the provision of the material that Hamilton and Phonak sought in the first instance. The CAS award makes it pretty clear that Hamilton got what he sought. The words, "complete and open production of documents" and "totally unfettered access" in the CAS award are suggestive that this was the case. Further, despite having access to documents, Hamilton and his team did not access the material relating to the validation of the testing procedure at the lab that recorded his positive test in the first place. This was presumably a deliberate decision. One wonders why.

The dispute resolution procedures that govern disputes over positive drug tests are complicated and not necessarily easily understood or easily mis-understood given the competing agendas as discussed above.

[RIHans]

Best Live Band EVER! Stones fans need not............HH

[saab2000]

Just downloaded 'Gimme Shelter', best Stones tune ever. By Far.

Tyler Hamilton is no more guilty or innocent than anyone else in that circus. He was unfortunate to get caught.

I hope he rides his C50 fast. He just might.

[neverraced]

I bought the first Who album when it first came out back in 1612 and my youngest kid has been playing Who videos of all vintages lately. Even now when they are old and get so tired on stage that they can't even harmonize, they are a fantastic live band. It's the songs. There are only 3 or 4 bad Who songs---the rest are among the best pop songs ever written. I'm taking him to the March concert on Long Island for his birthday. Got the tickets through AARP.

[BumbleBeeDave]

thats a huge snoze on Townsend yo !

Extreme wide-angle lens. Distorts the perspective . . . He's not really THAT ugly! :rolleyes:

BBD