Why aren't the modified 11spd (for 10spd hub) cassette more common?

[BRad704]

I'm seeing new-buy options around $150-200. That seems VERY reasonable to be able to use my 10spd Zipp wheels on my newer bikes.

Why don't we see more of these "mods" or "conversions"?

[8aaron8]

I'm surprised by this as well, though I do think the cost is rather high for the modified cassettes. Lucky for myself, I have a lathe so all my nice 10spd wheels now serve 11spd duty.

[BRad704]

I'm surprised by this as well, though I do think the cost is rather high for the modified cassettes. Lucky for myself, I have a lathe so all my nice 10spd wheels now serve 11spd duty.

Lucky! :banana:

I've got a wood lathe, but I don't know if I want to go for it without some better tolerances of a metal lathe.

[Mark McM]

I'm seeing new-buy options around $150-200. That seems VERY reasonable to be able to use my 10spd Zipp wheels on my newer bikes.

Why don't we see more of these "mods" or "conversions"?

I'd be surprised that if there aren't some compatibility issue with these cassettes in certain sizes. Shimano 10spd (and compatible) hubs have a larger flange offset than 11spd hubs. This creates less wheel dish for more reliable wheels, but it also means that there is potential overlap between the derailleur and the driveside spokes. The spokes are angled from the hub to the rim, so the larger the rear sprocket, the more the spoke/derailleur clearance there is, so 11spd cassettes with large sprockets may work on 10spd wheels. But smaller 11spd cassettes may not work.

[Powerful Pete]

Couldn't resist to be that guy... not an issue on my Campagnolo wheelsets. :)

But yes, seems like a strange fact that no one would figure this out.

[BRad704]

I'd be surprised that if there aren't some compatibility issue with these cassettes in certain sizes. Shimano 10spd (and compatible) hubs have a larger flange offset than 11spd hubs. This creates less wheel dish for more reliable wheels, but it also means that there is potential overlap between the derailleur and the driveside spokes. The spokes are angled from the hub to the rim, so the larger the rear sprocket, the more the spoke/derailleur clearance there is, so 11spd cassettes with large sprockets may work on 10spd wheels. But smaller 11spd cassettes may not work.

Very fair point. I'd be looking to do this on 11-28 or 11-30, since my road/cx bikes are all medium cage now.

[BRad704]

Couldn't resist to be that guy... not an issue on my Campagnolo wheelsets. :)

But yes, seems like a strange fact that no one would figure this out.

What's odd to me is that they HAVE figured it out. :rolleyes:

[Mark McM]

Couldn't resist to be that guy... not an issue on my Campagnolo wheelsets. :)

But yes, seems like a strange fact that no one would figure this out.

It's not an issue with Campagnolo wheels because Campagnolo has already had less driveside flange offset (more dishing) than Shimano wheels, going back to the 8spd era. So Campagnolo wheels have already had enough space to fit wider cassettes. Shimano wheels have had a wider driveside flange offset (less dishing), which left less room for the cassette. After going from 8spd to 9spd to 10spd, there was no more room to add an additional sprocket, so Shimano had to re-design their hubs to push the flange inboard, to make space for that 11th sprocket.

[johnniecakes]

I have 3 6800 (12-25) series cassettes that were modified to fit onto 10 speed free hubs. They work flawlessly and each modification was $15.00 at a small local machine shop. Takes only a few minutes.

[FriarQuade]

Because it makes more sense to modify the freehub?

[zzy]

Yeah where are all these machine shops that modify 10sp freehubs and cassettes?

[Tony]

The two freehubs I modified was fairly easy to do with a file, don't need a machine shop.

[jc031699]

Here’s one

Psa machining 11s cassettes to fit 10s hub
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=60324&share_tid=234612&url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Ethepaceline%2Enet%2Fsho wthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D234612&share_type=t


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[fogrider]

why not just change out the freehub? cassettes are consumables and wear out.

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126212854?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyLDpBRCxARIsAEENsrI-VMBotKGoJ4XcQNjxIggT5YPjyJhZiaTQyA_jcj0hz7U7azCAWi QaAif1EALw_wcB

[R3awak3n]

why not just change out the freehub? cassettes are consumables and wear out.

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126212854?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyLDpBRCxARIsAEENsrI-VMBotKGoJ4XcQNjxIggT5YPjyJhZiaTQyA_jcj0hz7U7azCAWi QaAif1EALw_wcB

Only works with a few manufacturers. Chris king for example does not sell a 10 to 11sp conversion freehub.


At least shimano has the 11-34 cassette that fits 10 and 11. I dont have any 10 speed hubs but have a few of those cassettes on rotation and they are excellent and not very expensive.

[Lewis Moon]

Couldn't resist to be that guy... not an issue on my Campagnolo wheelsets. :)

But yes, seems like a strange fact that no one would figure this out.

You obviously haven't owned older Bontrager RaceLite or older WI Campy compatible hubs. Both are splined just like the 9-10-11 hubs but only take a 10sp.

[BdaGhisallo]

Only works with a few manufacturers. Chris king for example does not sell a 10 to 11sp conversion freehub.


At least shimano has the 11-34 cassette that fits 10 and 11. I dont have any 10 speed hubs but have a few of those cassettes on rotation and they are excellent and not very expensive.

King does sell a kit to convert 10sp R45 hubs to 11sp. It's not cheap but it's there to be had.

[kramnnim]

I've been surprised at how few 10sp wheelsets are out there for sale. Maybe they all got converted to 11.

[unterhausen]

It has been a while since the hub manufacturers switched to 11spd. Not surprising that there aren't too many used wheels out there.

[MilanoTom]

It's too bad that nobody manufactures a 10-speed cassette with 11-speed spacing, for use on a 10-speed freehub. It would be similar to the cassettes that Campagnolo made for Ghibli disc wheels. It had one less than the current number of speeds, but had the current speed spacing.

[ColonelJLloyd]

It's too bad that nobody manufactures a 10-speed cassette with 11-speed spacing, for use on a 10-speed freehub. It would be similar to the cassettes that Campagnolo made for Ghibli disc wheels. It had one less than the current number of speeds, but had the current speed spacing.

Can you not just use 10 of the 11 cogs (and spacers) from an 11s cassette? I don't know as I've never tried.

[Mark McM]

Some companies do make such things, including Shimano themselves. Their 11-34 11spd cassette fits on a 10spd freehub, and has 10 sprockets with 11spd spacing. Oh, plus an extra sprocket as a bailout. So you could consider this an 11-30 10spd cassette with an extra 34 tooth bailout (for steep uphills), or a 12-34 10spd cassette with an extra 11 tooth bailout (for steep downhills).

The actual market for a 10spd cassette with 11spd spacing is miniscule. It would only work on a half-and-half drivetrain (half 10spd and half 11spd), and anyone who is hacking their drivetrain like that is probably able to come up with their own cassette hack to make it work.

[redir]

Yup I have modified most of mine with a simple file by hand.

Some hubs though just don't have enough meat to modify. IN that case what I discovered is that you can just use a ten speed cassette with your 11-speed shifters. I know they say you can't do it but I have been doing it for months now with zero problems.

[unterhausen]

which hubs have you had trouble modifying?

[R3awak3n]

King does sell a kit to convert 10sp R45 hubs to 11sp. It's not cheap but it's there to be had.

which is great but the classics are SOL

[jc031699]

It's too bad that nobody manufactures a 10-speed cassette with 11-speed spacing, for use on a 10-speed freehub. It would be similar to the cassettes that Campagnolo made for Ghibli disc wheels. It had one less than the current number of speeds, but had the current speed spacing.



As you request in DIY form
https://www.darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm


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[zambenini]

I have read time and again, and I think here, that a current ultegra wide-range cassette (11-32) had the same splines as current shimano MTB cassettes, and would thus work on 10s hubs. That seems like the simplest possible solution to me, and I bet tonsa people are willing to run 11-32 and just doing that. Just my assessment.

I sold a pair of 10s King wheels not long after I learned that. I don't know what the new owner is running on them now, but the fact of them being 10s was not a reason for selling them, that's for sure. Pretty instantly after 11s debuted, there have been workarounds. 10s stock only dipped for a short time before all of our high end hubs were fine again.