OT: auto ump in baseball

[eddief]

I completely understand why and how but somehow my brain can't get over the automation aspect. Robo players soon?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/robot-umpires-debuted-in-the-atlantic-league-all-star-game-heres-what-happened-041511972.html

[ctcyclistbob]

I like the idea.

The problem we currently have is that we at home are shown exactly where the pitch was, the clubhouse knows too, and the hitters usually know what's in or out of the zone (not always!). With electronic strike zones the pitch calls should be right all the time.

Big improvement. Similar to plays on the bases with reviews, the call accuracy overall will be better.

[unterhausen]

much better than people. I prefer to watch sports where it's not quite so easy for the refs to throw the game, inadvertently or not.

My daughter played softball for a few years, there was one guy that would only call a strike if the ball was below the knee, as long as it didn't hit the ground. I am pretty sure the other team adapted to his ridiculousness faster and won because of that.

[madsciencenow]

I'm not much of a fan of this idea. I like the zone being different depending on who is behind the plate. It's interesting to watch and try to figure out. I do appreciate that it's frustrating for the players from time-to-time but it's all part of the game, imho.

I wonder how much cheaper robo ump is over time? It strikes me that maybe this is like marketing for bike frames in that we are told how much stiffer the frame is because of such and such but really the issue is it saves the manufacturer money.

[shoota]

Horrible idea. The game is already getting away from tradition and this would just be over the line to me.

[Ozz]

I'm not much of a fan of this idea. I like the zone being different depending on who is behind the plate. It's interesting to watch and try to figure out. I do appreciate that it's frustrating for the players from time-to-time but it's all part of the game, imho.....

Program some AI into it so that moves the zone around a bit....:cool:

[eddief]

but only two dimensions; in or out of the line. calling balls and strikes is up, down, side, side, sorta like a cube.

[Blue Jays]

"...The game is already getting away from tradition..."

Wait, you don’t love the classic "ting" of MLB batters smacking the ball with carbon fiber and metal bats? :banana:

[Mark McM]

I'm not much of a fan of this idea. I like the zone being different depending on who is behind the plate.

Wouldn't this be like if the size of the hockey or soccer goal was different, depending on who was ref-ing the game?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Wouldn't this be like if the size of the hockey or soccer goal was different, depending on who was ref-ing the game?

That's not a very good analogy.

[Steve in SLO]

But...who would we yell at?

[Louis]

Somehow, I don't think Earl Weaver would approve.

[Mark McM]

That's not a very good analogy.

Why not? In both instances, the referee would decide what's "in" or what's "out', depending on his own biases. Or maybe a closer analogy would be eliminating the physical goals in hockey and soccer, and letting the referee make the call if the puck/ball was in.

The whole reason that physical goals were constructed was to make "in" and "out" more objective. If a robo-ump is more objective, it serves the same function.

[bigbill]

You'll have to define the strike zone. According to the rules, knees to armpits. I did 9 years of umpiring youth baseball and I'd call strikes at the chest on 9-10 year olds, but I'd lower the upper limit as the kids got older. The bottom is always the knees. MLB has the same rulebook zone but calling a strike at the chest will make everyone lose their collective minds. So some system of viewing the batter's dimensions would have to be used.

You'd still have to have an umpire at the plate and another monitoring the auto strike zone. The home plate umpire would still need to make the call for struck batter, foul tip, foul balls that hit the batter in the box, the batter's feet positioning, balks, catcher balks, etc. Calling balls and strikes is just one task of many.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Why not? In both instances, the referee would decide what's "in" or what's "out', depending on his own biases. Or maybe a closer analogy would be eliminating the physical goals in hockey and soccer, and letting the referee make the call if the puck/ball was in.


Because a pitch is not a "shot on goal". Balls and strikes (with the exception of a run scored due to a BB with the bases loaded) are not how runs (points) are produced. I just don't think it's a useful analogy. No offense meant.

The whole reason that physical goals were constructed was to make "in" and "out" more objective.

They exist in the game of baseball as well (foul line/pole, outfield fence/wall, touching home plate).

I'm not against this technology being used as an aid to what we already have. It makes sense for the reasons ctcyclistbob explains. We all see it on TV. MLB umpires are a union with a CBA; they're not going away.

[makoti]

but only two dimensions; in or out of the line. calling balls and strikes is up, down, side, side, sorta like a cube.

A cube? A rectangle, maybe, but it's either crosses the plate within the rectangle or it doesn't. No more catchers "framing" pitches by pulling the glove back. Seems like a perfect use of the technology, to me. I'd think hitters will love it because their strike zone should be the same every time. Pitchers will hate it, mostly those who nibble at the corners. Established pitchers will likely complain the loudest. Gone will be the borderline calls for the guy who is known to "throw strikes".

[eddief]

where to place the zone for each batter?

[Mark McM]

Because a pitch is not a "shot on goal". Balls and strikes (with the exception of a run scored due to a BB with the bases loaded) are not how runs (points) are produced. I just don't think it's a useful analogy. No offense meant.

That's a difference without meaning. Balls, strikes, runs and goals all affect involve a ball or puck passing through a plane of a delineated size, and all affect the play and outcome of the game.


They exist in the game of baseball as well (foul line/pole, outfield fence/wall, touching home plate).

These exist because these boundaries can be marked by hard, stationary physical delineators. A physical delineation of the strike zone has not practical, and so has been judged by the (subjective) eye of the umpire. But today, fixed and objective delineation can (and should) be made by machines, so there is no reason to rely on umpires.

In days gone long ago, finishing order and timing of races were all determined by the eye of judges, because there were other means available. But some races can be decided by hundredths or even thousandths of seconds - very difficult to judge by eye. So today these races can use automated means (such as electronic timing, cameras and light beams) to get the times and placings right. The same should be done with strike calling.

[Ozz]

...According to the rules, knees to armpits.....So some system of viewing the batter's dimensions would have to be used.

....

I don't know.....

[ColonelJLloyd]

That's a difference without meaning. Balls, strikes, runs and goals all affect involve a ball or puck passing through a plane of a delineated size, and all affect the play and outcome of the game.




These exist because these boundaries can be marked by hard, stationary physical delineators. A physical delineation of the strike zone has not practical, and so has been judged by the (subjective) eye of the umpire. But today, fixed and objective delineation can (and should) be made by machines, so there is no reason to rely on umpires.

In days gone long ago, finishing order and timing of races were all determined by the eye of judges, because there were other means available. But some races can be decided by hundredths or even thousandths of seconds - very difficult to judge by eye. So today these races can use automated means (such as electronic timing, cameras and light beams) to get the times and placings right. The same should be done with strike calling.

I like you, Mark. But, you'd argue with a fence post.

[Bisquik]

I think the technology should be vetted at this level prior to the majors in order to provide a consistent & fair play for everyone and then let the players, coaches and umpires offer their assessment after a period of time.

[eddief]

stick the data in the computer. same same every time. then they can bitch about the measuring process until they get a robot for that.

[rwsaunders]

Come to think of it, there’s no reason that a robot couldn’t do a better job of managing a MLB team too...Clint Hurdle comes to mind.

https://sports.theonion.com/terry-francona-still-amazed-people-think-managing-baseb-1828058079

[Bruce K]

And Bobby Valentine.

But Robo Managers would take all the fun out of the press conferences.

BK

[ColonelJLloyd]

And Bobby Valentine.

But Robo Managers would take all the fun out of the press conferences.

BK

And an algorithm wouldn't get tossed out. I enjoy the occasional spectacle of nose-to-nose cursing, kicking dirt, throwing hats and generally "getting your money's worth".

[mt2u77]

And an algorithm wouldn't get tossed out. I enjoy the occasional spectacle of nose-to-nose cursing, kicking dirt, throwing hats and generally "getting your money's worth".

Yeah, or vice-versa, who's a manager going to jaw with when he disagrees with robo-ump? :) And hopefully robo-ump has a strike zone sensitivity adjustment to get the game over with when it goes 17 innings.

[unterhausen]

a robomanager would have a calculation that shows if he should get himself thrown out of the game or not.

The press opportunities would probably be very similar to Bill Belichick

[Matthew]

Sooner or later we'll all be robots. Isn't that what the world is coming to already? You can't say what's on your mind for fear of offending someone. You can't discipline your child. Everyone gets a trophy. We all bury our faces in a phone or computer. Our cars will drive themselves. Modern music sucks, everyone can be a star. Just need 30 back up dancers, use autotune. No need to learn an instrument. All bikes will be matte black. Wait, that's the case now. You get my point. I need to go ride.

[Bruce K]

If not Bill, then Siri...

BK

[mt2u77]

Well, that didn’t take long— manager ejected for arguing with robo-ump [emoji23]:

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article232683427.html

[ColonelJLloyd]

This experimentation in the Atlantic League is interesting. Stealing first base, 3 batter minimum for relievers. . .