Need a rim recommendation

[cgolvin]

Need to rebuild wheels for my Gios restomod, hubs are Campy Record 32 hole. I was about to pull the trigger on some polished Archetypes, but then had the good sense to throw the rear from my Serotta (black Archetypes) on and realized that wider rims are a no-go because I have my old Nuovo Record brakes mounted (frame won't accommodate newer style recessed bolts). Technically, with the shifter lever closed but the brake release open I could spin the wheel, but the tolerance is too tight for comfort.

So my requirements are:
- 32 hole
- metal look (preferably polished)
No strong preference on tubular vs clincher.

There are a lot of nice Campy tubular rims on eBay but too pricey -- I'd like to keep the cost down to, say $175 including shipping.

What do y'all recommend?

[Mark McM]

Technically, with the shifter lever closed but the brake release open I could spin the wheel, but the tolerance is too tight for comfort.

What was stopping the brake caliper from opening further? Would loosening the cable allow the caliper to open further, or where the brake pads contacting the inside of the fork and/or seat stays? Or do you simply want to be able to swap between narrow and wide rims without re-adjusting the brakes? Nuovo Record calipers can open quite wide, wide enough to allow it to clear fat tires (28mm+). So they should open wide enough for wider rims. (In fact, in the era of Nuovo Record brakes, rims were often as wide as today's "wide" rims).

If the issue is being able to swap between narrow and wide rims, then the fact that the calipers are single pivot is your friend. Single pivot brakes have a large ratio of caliper/cable travel. In the worst case, you can set the cable so that the barrel adjust is all the way in for wide rim and then turn it outward as necessary when fitting the wheels with narrow rims. And if you have quick releases on both lever and caliper, you can adjust the cable so that the QR is open with the wide rims and closed with the narrow rims (and still be able to open the caliper further with the lever QR).

[ColonelJLloyd]

The fact that the Pacenti Brevet (https://pacenticycledesign.com/collections/rims/products/brevet-rim-700c) is polished, has a classic profile AND is tubeless puts it in a pretty small group. I'd say it's a great candidate for a classic steel bike. Nothing keeping you from using them with tubes, but it sure is nice to have the option these days.

[jtbadge]

The fact that the Pacenti Brevet (https://pacenticycledesign.com/collections/rims/products/brevet-rim-700c) is polished, has a classic profile AND is tubeless puts it in a pretty small group. I'd say it's a great candidate for a classic steel bike. Nothing keeping you from using them with tubes, but it sure is nice to have the option these days.

Same width as the Archetype, though, so it won't fit his frame.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Same width as the Archetype, though, so it won't fit his frame.

I'm hoping the real issue is sussed out as I don't understand how a vintage Gios with Nuovo Record calipers cannot accommodate a 23mm wide rim.

If, for whatever reason, that is true then the Sun M-13 is a good, inexpensive modern clincher that fits the bill. Velo Orange PBP is very, very similar (both just under 20mm outer). Otherwise, searching for the right vintage rim is probably in order.

[cgolvin]

What was stopping the brake caliper from opening further? Would loosening the cable allow the caliper to open further, or where the brake pads contacting the inside of the fork and/or seat stays? Or do you simply want to be able to swap between narrow and wide rims without re-adjusting the brakes? Nuovo Record calipers can open quite wide, wide enough to allow it to clear fat tires (28mm+). So they should open wide enough for wider rims. (In fact, in the era of Nuovo Record brakes, rims were often as wide as today's "wide" rims).

With the threaded adjuster all the way out and all tension taken out of the cable I measure (just a tape measure, don't have calipers) about 28mm clearance between the rear brake blocks. When I close the release on the rear shifter, it's more like 25mm, and when I close the release on the caliper it's more like 21mm (ok, I can ride with the caliper release open).

This doesn't make sense to me. I had to dismantle these calipers to swap the medium arms for short arms, is it possible that I did something wrong in the reassembly that is preventing the calipers from opening as fully as possible? I don't see how since the width seems determined by the spring, but it was the only time I have ever done that disassembly so…

Oh, and nothing about being able to swap, the only swapping I'll be doing is when I take off the restomod and restore the Eroica build (the brakes stay put during that swap).

thanks as always

[Gummee]

I've got a couple of answers for you

I have a set of 3 Campag Omega XL clinchers. 2 were NOS till I built em up and rode em briefly.

Have at least one pair of GL330s

Have a pair of Campag Crono tubulars

If none of the above appeal, I'd say go TB14

M

[ColonelJLloyd]

Threading the barrel adjuster out (revealing more threads) tightens the cable moving the pads closer together.

First, you need to completely release the cable to determine maximum width between the brake pads. When you set it up make sure that the barrel adjuster is threaded all the way in, then thread it out 1-1.5 revolutions. Then make sure the quick release on both your brake lever and the caliper are CLOSED before tightening the cable at the desired place.

To confirm, you needed the later, shorter-reach version because the pads would not reach high enough for 700c wheels with the normal version?

Pics of the brakes in question would help.

[HTupolev]

With the threaded adjuster all the way out and all tension taken out of the cable I measure (just a tape measure, don't have calipers) about 28mm clearance between the rear brake blocks. When I close the release on the rear shifter, it's more like 25mm, and when I close the release on the caliper it's more like 21mm
If the cable isn't tensioned, why are the quick releases affecting the brake at all? :confused:

[cgolvin]

Here's an image of the rear brake with all cable tension released, so the brake is at its maximum width.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48236334016_f3ca5761a0_b.jpg

(apologies for the Shimano ferrule)

[cgolvin]

If the cable isn't tensioned, why are the quick releases affecting the brake at all? :confused:

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was trying to describe three measured clearances:

1. Cable untensioned (brake at its maximum width)
2. Cable tensioned, shifter released closed and brake release open
3. Cable tensioned, both shifter and brake releases closed

I hope that you are no longer :confused:

[HTupolev]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was trying to describe three measured clearances:

1. Cable untensioned (brake at its maximum width)
2. Cable tensioned, shifter released closed and brake release open
3. Cable tensioned, both shifter and brake releases closed

I hope that you are no longer :confused:
By "cable untensioned", you mean that you backed out the cable pinch bolt on the brake so that the cable is no longer attached to the brake, correct?

[cgolvin]

By "cable untensioned", you mean that you backed out the cable pinch bolt on the brake so that the cable is no longer attached to the brake, correct?

Correct, that is exactly what I meant.

[cgolvin]

To confirm, you needed the later, shorter-reach version because the pads would not reach high enough for 700c wheels with the normal version?

Sorry, neglected to respond to this part. Yes, I swapped Joe Bell my medium reach arms for a pair of short reach arms because even with the brake shoes all the way up in the arms the pads were still sitting only on the lower half of the rims.

[Black Dog]

Put on a set of modern pad holders and you will gain about 1cm.

[Mark McM]

Put on a set of modern pad holders and you will gain about 1cm.

^^^^^^ This.

I pulled out a set of Nuovo Record brake calipers that I have in storage, and compared them to a set of modern Chorus Skeleton brakes I have on one of my bikes. Unfortunately I don't have the original shoes and pads for the Nuovo Record calipers, but when fully open they measure 65mm between the arms. The Chorus Skeleton brakes measured 65mm between arms on the front brake (dual pivot) and 70mm between arms on the rear brake (single pivot) when fully open. With brake shoes and pads installed, the Chorus front brake measures 30mm between pads, and the rear brake measures 35mm between pads when fully open (the width of the pair of shoes and pads is 35mm). The Chorus Skeleton brakes are currently being used with 25mm wide rims, and they work just fine. I'm confident that with similar width shoes and pads, my Nuovo Record calipers would also work with the 25mm rims as well.

[retrofit]

... I had to dismantle these calipers to swap the medium arms for short arms, is it possible that I did something wrong in the reassembly that is preventing the calipers from opening as fully as possible? I don't see how since the width seems determined by the spring, but it was the only time I have ever done that disassembly so…

Maybe the center bolt lock nut was over tightened during caliper reassembly, and thus prevents the caliper from opening fully.

[m_sasso]

Nothing to do with the centre bolt lock nut!

Callipers designed to accommodate narrow tubular rims and tires and those callipers are not going to open any wider unless you get out a file and I highly doubt you want to do that! The cable attachment arm is currently resting against the brake pad holder attachment outer flange surface. See image, also wouldn't surprise me if the brake pad holders are not hooked inside against the seat stays, however can't tell from the picture.

To get more clearance you are going to need to reduce the stack height of the brake pads and holders.

Also do not neglect depending on the rim you chose your going to likely end up requiring a different spoke length and new spokes.

[cgolvin]

Put on a set of modern pad holders and you will gain about 1cm.

Excellent, I proclaim Black Dog the winner -- thanks. I'll pillage a set of holders off a bike with Record 10 to verify, but this sounds like the solution. I'll post a WTB after confirming, but if anyone has a spare set of (silver) holders, shoot me a message.

And good eyes @m_sasso, the photo shows that the calipers cannot open any more.

Much thanks to all.