reveiw, Bontrager xxx-lite carbon clicher.

[swoop]

*spelling mistakes in the title suck. oy.


I just was made an offer I couldn't refuse and purchased some barely used Bontrager xxx-lite carbon clinchers for next to nothing. I've ridden all kinds of carbon sew-ups and tons of different brands of wheels and just swapped these for my Mavic Ksyrium/Helium Es's on my 'base mile' bike.

My favorite wheel of all time is a Cosmic Carbone (for reference).
First things first: I'm selling the ES's (6 large plus shipping).

XXX- Lites, the negatives:
1) right off the bat there is a small splinter of carbon coming off at the top of the braking surface. looks like the previous owner went at it with a tire iron (why do people use tire irons?) or rolled over a rock with a flat. I peeled the piece away from the rim and sanded the edges and it doesn't look like it wil delam. I am imagining that if this is an everyday wheel, that it will have to hold up to the incidental ugliniess that can happen on the road and so I'm just not gonna worry about it.

2) i've got a bunch of Corima cork brake pads laying around from the last sew up I used and slapped them on. I don't think the braking surface of any carbon rim will be as user friendly as an aluminum one. If you can just accept that right off the bat and work with what carbon gives you its just not a big deal. I'd say there is about a 5-10% degradation of braking performance that just requires forgetting what aluminum rims feel like, and learning the feel of cork and carbon.

3) the carbon bead is a less hearty interface with the clincher than a common aluminum rim. it just means checking that everything is seated perectly but leaves me wondering what hapens if i get a hard flat at speed. That being said, nothing good happens with a hard flat at speed.. so.. why worry?

the positives:

1) the hub. i think this is a DT hub wrapped in bontrager carbon. whatever it is.. it's sublime. feels like it's got ceramic bearings. there is the perception of the absence of any rolling resistance in the hub. like butter. noticeable from a stop accelrating into intervals and also accelerating from speed. i think anyone would notice the senstion as a vast improvement over most hubs.

2) the rim: the rim is stiff and communicates feedback from the tires. you can feel the road but at the same time, the carbon does mute some of the buzz. it's a quiet feeling rim that still feels connected to what is going on underfoot.

i've a well documented hate of zipp rims... they've chattered me to death when pushed to the limit in a turn and left me riding to stay up rather than wanting to sprint into a turn and jam the bike (this is why i love carbones, they invite you to use the bike to cut through a turn). at first blush, the bontragers are highly responsive but flex in the right way and encourage pushing it. i haven't pushed the limit on them yet but will take a few turns hard tommorow when i'm up in the hills.

the wheels come in around 1400 grams.light, but not silly. they feel solid and don't feel like they lose momentum at the rims.

probably the best low profile wheel i've used so far. and this is a total surprise to me. i don't know that carbon will make for a good everyday wheel when aluminum seems to work so well...
i guess time will tell.

2 thumbs up. fast, butter smooth hubs, smooth but not dead, the right amount of stiff. leaves you feeling a solid connection to the road. smile inducing and sublime. questions about durability of real world use. not in love with the skewers, will the beads hold the rim?

side note:
makes me wonder what a campy hyperion ultra feels like (not gonna spend that much on a clincher).

hope that helps.
swoop

[Climb01742]

i'm test riding bontrager carbon aeolus 5.0 clinchers. so far, they kick ***.

http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Wheels/23136.php

bontrager are overlooked wheels, imhbo.*








imhbo=in my half-baked opinion

[swoop]

they have a rep for beig warrantied a lot.. but of the six guys i know that ride them, only one has some warranty issues that were fixed with a just a little drama.

[Climb01742]

so far, braking has been fine. a little grabby at the extreme but no drama. the gold standard for me is DA10 on alu rims but carbon is ok. haven't rode them in the wet, however.

[CNY rider]

What tires did you do your test ride with?

[swoop]

i always ride michelin pro race 2's. 100 front 108 rear. i know those tires better than the bottoms of my own feet.
:P

[Climb01742]

What tires did you do your test ride with?

i'm rollin' on vittoria evo cx's.

[1centaur]

Swiss Stop pads have a much better rep for carbon rims than cork - maybe that helps.

Climb - Aeolus vs. Lightweight???

[Climb01742]

Swiss Stop pads have a much better rep for carbon rims than cork - maybe that helps.

Climb - Aeolus vs. Lightweight???

after the aeolus, our mutual friend is hooking me up with a pair of anti-LWs, if you get my drift.

[1centaur]

after the aeolus, our mutual friend is hooking me up with a pair of anti-LWs, if you get my drift.

Hey, maybe at some point you could do a highly detailed LW - anti-LW review :argue:

[saab2000]

Swoop,

Thanks for the review. I have occasionally thought about a set of these, but the tubular version.

Have you used Campagnolo Neutrons? How would they compare? I am just curious because you had said these were the best 'low profile' wheels you have used.

I also think the Bontragers look interesting, but they don't often get as good a review as the Campagnolo wheels, which are the only factory-built wheels I am familiar with.

[obtuse]

*spelling mistakes in the title suck. oy.


I just was made an offer I couldn't refuse and purchased some barely used Bontrager xxx-lite carbon clinchers for next to nothing. I've ridden all kinds of carbon sew-ups and tons of different brands of wheels and just swapped these for my Mavic Ksyrium/Helium Es's on my 'base mile' bike.

My favorite wheel of all time is a Cosmic Carbone (for reference).
First things first: I'm selling the ES's (6 large plus shipping).

XXX- Lites, the negatives:
1) right off the bat there is a small splinter of carbon coming off at the top of the braking surface. looks like the previous owner went at it with a tire iron (why do people use tire irons?) or rolled over a rock with a flat. I peeled the piece away from the rim and sanded the edges and it doesn't look like it wil delam. I am imagining that if this is an everyday wheel, that it will have to hold up to the incidental ugliniess that can happen on the road and so I'm just not gonna worry about it.

2) i've got a bunch of Corima cork brake pads laying around from the last sew up I used and slapped them on. I don't think the braking surface of any carbon rim will be as user friendly as an aluminum one. If you can just accept that right off the bat and work with what carbon gives you its just not a big deal. I'd say there is about a 5-10% degradation of braking performance that just requires forgetting what aluminum rims feel like, and learning the feel of cork and carbon.

3) the carbon bead is a less hearty interface with the clincher than a common aluminum rim. it just means checking that everything is seated perectly but leaves me wondering what hapens if i get a hard flat at speed. That being said, nothing good happens with a hard flat at speed.. so.. why worry?

the positives:

1) the hub. i think this is a DT hub wrapped in bontrager carbon. whatever it is.. it's sublime. feels like it's got ceramic bearings. there is the perception of the absence of any rolling resistance in the hub. like butter. noticeable from a stop accelrating into intervals and also accelerating from speed. i think anyone would notice the senstion as a vast improvement over most hubs.

2) the rim: the rim is stiff and communicates feedback from the tires. you can feel the road but at the same time, the carbon does mute some of the buzz. it's a quiet feeling rim that still feels connected to what is going on underfoot.

i've a well documented hate of zipp rims... they've chattered me to death when pushed to the limit in a turn and left me riding to stay up rather than wanting to sprint into a turn and jam the bike (this is why i love carbones, they invite you to use the bike to cut through a turn). at first blush, the bontragers are highly responsive but flex in the right way and encourage pushing it. i haven't pushed the limit on them yet but will take a few turns hard tommorow when i'm up in the hills.

the wheels come in around 1400 grams.light, but not silly. they feel solid and don't feel like they lose momentum at the rims.

probably the best low profile wheel i've used so far. and this is a total surprise to me. i don't know that carbon will make for a good everyday wheel when aluminum seems to work so well...
i guess time will tell.

2 thumbs up. fast, butter smooth hubs, smooth but not dead, the right amount of stiff. leaves you feeling a solid connection to the road. smile inducing and sublime. questions about durability of real world use. not in love with the skewers, will the beads hold the rim?

side note:
makes me wonder what a campy hyperion ultra feels like (not gonna spend that much on a clincher).

hope that helps.
swoop


they're not half bad eh?

my fovorite wheels ever are the cosmic carbones too....you should really try the aelous. the ride just like carbones but with that cabron feel your describing....they use the same rim as the xxxlite but have the hub has big flat flanges making it more durable and a bit stiffer.....

thank you swoop for articulating again why zipps suck. everytime i explain it everyone looks at me like i'm crazy.

obtuse

ps the hypero clincher is just a corima rim- they're not nearly as nice as what you've got although they look shinyier.

[swoop]

Swoop,

Thanks for the review. I have occasionally thought about a set of these, but the tubular version.

Have you used Campagnolo Neutrons? How would they compare? I am just curious because you had said these were the best 'low profile' wheels you have used.

I also think the Bontragers look interesting, but they don't often get as good a review as the Campagnolo wheels, which are the only factory-built wheels I am familiar with.

my team mates used the deepest sew-ups (6.5?) at all the races last year and were crazy about them. the only complaint is that its a very very loud wheel. the deep rim is like a speaker for wheel noise.
i haven't been on a neutron in four years... i think of them as being a solid neutral wheel (that's a good thing). i think the xxx-lites are in a different league clincher wise... but i think highly of all the recent campy/fulcrum wheels.

[pdxmech13]

I see a fair share of warranty wheels from there wheel line. Mainly in the lower category. Cracked rims are typically the culprit but guess what. Bontrager stuff now has a 5 year warranty on all the shiite. Those aelous wheels are bad arse. I love that wide rim profile.

Swoop i can't believe you ride pro 2. but all that being said i trust your opinions man.

[Frustration]

Man I just don't agree that they're any better rim at all than several Aluminum clinchers available...


I like the carbon hubs and shallow sound... I like the red spokes.


Asking people to forget what an aluminum wheel feels like in braking is a bit much as these brake like crap next to pretty much anything aluminum...

And get em wet and brake? :crap:


But you forgot to also ask people to forget how lots of aluminum clinchers accelerate... and survive flats and changes... And how inexpensive aluminum clinchers are despite the fact that they are better wheels...


And my set are closer to 1500 than 1400 grams.

I also believe that A LOT of the wheel weight is at the rim edge to try and make carbon do what Aluminum does more easily in creating a strong rim bed.


More weight
More weight at the outter edge
crap brakeing
crappier in wet
more brittle rim edge



I think these are carbon for carbon sake and am really happy they're on a bike I'm trying out...

I swapped em onto my regular bike too, so it wasn't really just a bike problem.


These suffer in comparison to almost any clincher wheel set I own...

.

[Climb01742]

Man I just don't agree that they're any better rim at all than several Aluminum clinchers available...


I like the carbon hubs and shallow sound... I like the red spokes.


Asking people to forget what an aluminum wheel feels like in braking is a bit much as these brake like crap next to pretty much anything aluminum...

And get em wet and brake? :crap:


But you forgot to also ask people to forget how lots of aluminum clinchers accelerate... and survive flats and changes... And how inexpensive aluminum clinchers are despite the fact that they are better wheels...


And my set are closer to 1500 than 1400 grams.

I also believe that A LOT of the wheel weight is at the rim edge to try and make carbon do what Aluminum does more easily in creating a strong rim bed.


More weight
More weight at the outter edge
crap brakeing
crappier in wet
more brittle rim edge



I think these are carbon for carbon sake and am really happy they're on a bike I'm trying out...

I swapped em onto my regular bike too, so it wasn't really just a bike problem.


These suffer in comparison to almost any clincher wheel set I own...

.

i'm riding the aelous wheels on a new time vxrs ulteam. i haven't switched wheels to compare same bike with different wheels, so i can't say what's wheels and what's frame. but... the combo is sublime. the smoothest, sweetest rig i've ever ridden. carbon rims "may" be contributing to the smoothness of the ride, but no, i can't say fer sure. i can simply report the joyous ride quality of the total package. i agree that braking suffers_some_but not a great deal, at least in the dry. in the wet they'd probably suck. so my impressions are based on partial info. but i'm not even tempted to switch the wheels, which says a lot, at least to me, about how much i like the ride of the package.

[Jack Brunk]

Hey Climb,

How about posting some pictures of that pimp machine.


Jack

[Frustration]

I have the same tires on a set of Easton Orion II that I do on the XXX's...


Run at same pressure, same tires, the XXX's are no more comfortable on either bike than the Easton...

They are only a couple grams heavier than the Easton, but accelerate poorly in comparison...

The braking is far better, wet or dry on the Orion's.

The Orion's handle just as well as the XXX's as well...


And what's funny is that the Orion's are not by any means my favorite standard clincher.


Ergott could build you two sets of better wheels for the price of a set of XXX's...



.

[Climb01742]

Hey Climb,

How about posting some pictures of that pimp machine.


Jack

this weekend for sure, jack. since ed, the new pup, arrived, spare time has been scarce.

[davids]

i'm test riding bontrager carbon aeolus 5.0 clinchers. so far, they kick ***.

http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Wheels/23136.php

bontrager are overlooked wheels, imhbo.
Well, the graphics are more subtle than the 6.5s...

I know, I'm completely superficial. But then, all I want are photos! C'mon, climb - If Jack Brunk can do it, I know you can, too! ;)

[1centaur]

Having looked at the Bontrager link...

Is that Aeolus depth provided by a fairing or is it structural? I am trying to figure out whether the fairing approach of the Hed Jet 50 is really worse for aero purposes and longevity than the deep clinchers that cost a lot more such as the 404 (structural depth) or the Aeolus.

[Climb01742]

it's a fairing. basically it's a mavic carbone with carbon rims.

[Jack Brunk]

Climb,

After your done with the anti LW's, ship them to me. Obtuse said it was okay. Did you see my frame at Internaional? It's getting built tomorrow.


J

[Climb01742]

Did you see my frame at Internaional? It's getting built tomorrow.

dang, i haven't been in a while. would love to see a jack-special, up close and personal. but i should have guessed you had another bike coming through IBC -- obtuse is shopping for real estate in cannes. :D

[swoop]

I have the same tires on a set of Easton Orion II that I do on the XXX's...


Run at same pressure, same tires, the XXX's are no more comfortable on either bike than the Easton...

They are only a couple grams heavier than the Easton, but accelerate poorly in comparison...

The braking is far better, wet or dry on the Orion's.

The Orion's handle just as well as the XXX's as well...


And what's funny is that the Orion's are not by any means my favorite standard clincher.


Ergott could build you two sets of better wheels for the price of a set of XXX's...



.

well, we'll have to agree that we have different experience. the braking is not as good as aluminum. but it's not horrible, it just requires attention. there is no weight benefit. the hubs are incredibly smooth. the thing they do well is accelerate. they feel good. i like the way they communicate what's going on under the tire. given a choice between spending 1/2 as much on an aluminum rim i'd go that way. but i d prefer these of ksyriums even if just marginally and got them at the same price.
i don't love the feel of mega light wheels in general... so the added weight at the rim is likely the thing i like about the way the wheels feel... although i wouldn't quantify it that way an am just using your language.

in rain, one has to make accomodations to get the brakes to work anyway.. and i've certainly been in races where is was raining so hard that there was no braking at all (the road races at sand dimas stage race and valley of the sun .... two years ago were like that.

as an overall wheel... aluminum is a better material (duarbility points).. no question. but there are some distinct parameters where these wheels excel. it's all about matching the part to the job and the thing about wheels and brake pads.. is that they are easy to change.

for me, these wheels feel lovely, and have sublime hubs. they take aggression well and leave you a sense of the road. those are things i look for in a wheel.
the negs i mentioned in the bit i wrote.
atmo. that being said, i don't like pickles.... there's plenty of things not to like....

funny anecdote. teammate's recently canned ex girlfriend shows up on ride with brand new ksyriums she just got herself so she could give him his wheels back.*she's cool, he's a nutter.

she's catching up to us post chat and runs over a 16 penny nail that goes though the tire and through the rim. it leaves two holes on the inner rim wall. poor kid. the wheels were about a day old.

[swoop]

I see a fair share of warranty wheels from there wheel line. Mainly in the lower category. Cracked rims are typically the culprit but guess what. Bontrager stuff now has a 5 year warranty on all the shiite. Those aelous wheels are bad arse. I love that wide rim profile.

Swoop i can't believe you ride pro 2. but all that being said i trust your opinions man.

ditto on your opinion.

[swoop]

part 2:

i've had three days on these wheels now. a short three hours, a long six, and a recovery hour with cadence drills this morning.

yesterday i went out with a recently retired pro (nameless to keep his sponsors happy) who is now a ds on a domestic team. he was previously sponsored by e****n (i dont' want to take sales anyway from any company or suggest that one product is superior to another as fact).

we swapped wheels for a bit... and both agreed that the bontragers were by a significant amount the stiffer, better feeling wheel (a subjective opinion) over his top of the line e****n clinchers.
i descended one of the more technical local canyons at near max and found the wheel stiffness fostered a significant improvement in cornering, while the carbon muted out un needed feedback from the road.. all the while conveying the critical feel of what was happening under the tire. this was a unique set of sensations.

and a side by side subjective comparison.

i can say with some confidence that this is the best clincher i've been on. coincidentally, the person with me who's opinion is vastly more informed than mine agreed.
so, regarding the comparison to e****n.... while i trust your experience was the opposite of mine and equally valid... i would recommend these wheels to anyone wanting a clincher.
these are now my favorite wheels (more so than even my faithful love of cosmics).

i have some reynolds dv46c's on the way.... if they are less satisfying than these i'll sell them and get a second pair of bontragers. i'm looking forward to the reynolds wheels being as uniquely excellent.

so, if you have a little extra cash and are hunting to a wheel to elevate your ride.. bontrager xxx-lites (no affiliation from to me). the price dropped recently fron 2800 to 1800-2k or so. get them. you'll thank me.

we'll see about durability as time passes.
hope this was helpful.

[CalfeeFly]

[QUOTE=Climb01742]i'm test riding bontrager carbon aeolus 5.0 clinchers. so far, they kick ***.

http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Wheels/23136.php

bontrager are overlooked wheels, imhbo.*


Be careful! I've heard that they can cause your fork steerer to break!
:) :banana: :D

[pdxmech13]

only when riding the cobbles baby