I rented a Madone+ E-bike for a day

[Bostic]

Finally getting around to writing a review. A bit over a month ago I rented the Madone+ Electric Bike from a local store to see if $7k is worth it to shorten my 27 mile commute. It’s not. I rode about 37 miles over a variety of road surfaces before the battery was done.

The bike in size 52cm weights 39lbs which is a pound heavier than my wife’s and I Cannondale M/S tandem. With the motor off it’s miserable to ride. With the lowest assist mode it’s basically useless as I can ride faster on my personal bikes without having the heft of 39lbs under me.

The second mode is just ok. I was able to accelerate to a cruising speed from a red light without having to stand up. Still, it’s basically not a usable mode as it doesn’t help enough to offset the weight.

The third power setting, Sport, is where the motor helps as holding 21mph to 24mph is easy. Accelerating up a roller is basically effortless and in the drops I can maintain a speed I could never manage without a motor.

The Turbo mode does just that. 26mph to 28mph while working hard but certainly not a max effort. I used that mode up some local 15% climbs. Where I’m normally riding 4.7 to 5mph I would whizz up them at 10mph while seated. Accelerrating from red lights is where this mode is the most effective but it eats up the battery the fastest.

The bike has front and rear lights that can’t be turned off. The computer is fairly big and bulky but the buttons are easy to press without looking down. I would dread a flat tire however, trying to flip the bike upside down, through axle’s and having to unscrew the computer display to move it out of the way.

The Sram Force hydraulic brakes performed great and I really liked the lever ergonomics. The bike had 700x35cm tires and the front felt very sluggish when standing. Descending I found myself having to ride like when on my Volagi versus my Venge. It doesn’t carve turns easy at all.

The charging unit is quite large and has a proprietary connector. A second one would have to be purchased to leave at work in order to charge it to ride home. While not cheap plastic, it also didn’t feel ‘sturdy’ when plugged into the motor on the bike.

I feel the advertising for this bike is misleading. Keep up with the fast riders on a group ride but A rides usually go long distances and you can’t with the current motor when in Sport or Turbo mode. Maybe have fun the first 20 miles before you have to turn back while the rest of the riders continue on their 70 mile Sunday A ride.

For my needs the battery doesn’t have the capacity to make it worth the investment and short-comings but it was fun trucking along at 28mph when not on the tandem.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/tr15zM.jpg

[Tony T]

Good review. The difficulty in fixing a flat is something I never realized.
Never rode one of those, but I would like to try one of the e-bikes the pro's use in the TDF :banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Elefantino]

E-bikes are a work in progress. Five years from now the technology will have evolved to address some of the problems you mentioned.

Hopefully.

[eddief]

undo thru, get behind the bike, pull the wheel out, lay bike on non drive side. then reverse. i do admit lining up rotor and derailleur using this method can be tricky. Trek says up to 70 miles on a charge so maybe your rental was not quite there.

[BobbyJones]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

One of the great things that I’ve encountered with e-bike commuting is not so much holding fast speeds when cranking along, but dialing it down a notch to have an “effortless” ride to my destination sweat free.

My first few days we’re spent on “how fast can I go?” Which turned into “how easy can I make this”. The Domaine obviously isn’t marketed towards this.

FWIW- I tested a Trek SuperCommuter 8 ( a $5k commuter) and the system was clearly the smoothest application of a pedal assist system of the handful of e-bikes I’ve ridden. It looks like the Domaine uses the same.

Elefantino is right. A few more years and we’ll see 50 mile range at 28mph as the gold standard.

[fa63]

Same here. My average speed when I am commuting is a little less than my normal rides, but I can arrive at my destination more or less sweat free, even in 90 degree southeast weather.


One of the great things that I’ve encountered with e-bike commuting is not so much holding fast speeds when cranking along, but dialing it down a notch to have an “effortless” ride to my destination sweat free.

My first few days we’re spent on “how fast can I go?” Which turned into “how easy can I make this”.

[OtayBW]

The problem with a lot of e-bikes that seems to be cropping up more and more, is that they are often operated by 'bicycle dilletants' who are weak on bike handling skills and who have even less experience with group riding dynamics and needs. Seems to be increasingly discussed by many in my riding circle....

[palincss]

E-bikes are a work in progress. Five years from now the technology will have evolved to address some of the problems you mentioned.

Hopefully.

Some might say the technology has already evolved to address some of the problems mentioned.

Cases in point are the Class 1 road e-assist bikes using the E-bikemotion X35 and Fazua systems. These are much lower power than the Class 3 Trek, but they're also much lighter and (according to published tests) can be ridden without the motor assist or at the lowest assist level. And riding them either on the lowest assist level or without assist goes a long way towards addressing the range issue noted. In fact, bikes built with the Fazua system can have the battery and the motor removed, and can be used as unassisted bikes.

I believe it's still the case that the Fazua system is still awaiting US government approval but both Bianchi and Orbea have bikes on sale now that use the E-bikemotion X35 rear drive hub; and at least one bike using the Fazua motor can be ordered from the UK (the Cairn Cycles E-adventure pre-orders in Sept).

[Burnette]

To the OP's point, weight and range is an issue for my area too.

Charity and meet up group rides go anywhere from 50 to 70 some miles over rolling hill. Most common are 3% hills, followed by 8% and then there's the 12 to 15% hills.

I quick check on e bikes and 34lbs and above are common, if you didn't fully charger it, relied on it too much, lugging that weight near the end of a long ride would be a deal breaker.

I see the value in it for a short distance commuter though. As others have said, getting to work quick and sweat free.

Back to my original scenario, what would be the ideal parameters for my terrain? Within reason, something doable with today's technology?

Say, 25lbs total weight, sacrifice range/battery size and top speed to achieve that weight and only use it at peak load demand times, those last few 8, 12 and 15% grades of the ride.

Still wouldn't be my thing but I would imagine some would see value in it.

[Ralph]

I just hope these 28 MPH E bikes are illegal for Multi Use Trails.

My wife has a Mid Drive cruiser E bike...255 watts. it won't go over about 18, and is perfect for cruising around at 10-12 MPH. Her battery lasts about 60-70 miles the way she pokes around.

Seems to me.....the market for E bikes as a substitute for road bikes is a different market. And I'm not against that use.....imagine it will grow. Just don't think it mixes well with non E bike riders.

The local bike shop says if it has a throttle and can go over about 18-20, it's a motor vehicle (Florida) and not legal for the trails...even the wide (car lane wide) trails that go miles and miles with little traffic or side roads we have around here. So I think you need to decide what use you plan for your E bike. Road or MUT commuter routes. Buy accordingly.

[pdmtong]

This is the first "review" I have seen from a cyclist riding one of the e-bikes designed to help cyclists keep pace with other cyclists as opposed to an unabashed commuter type e-bike. thanks for posting it.

happy coincidence (this post) as I came upon a big guy so happy with his bianchi e-road bike (https://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/e-bike/aria-e-road/) - it let him conquer our local benchmark climb with his friends while he gets back into shape.

agreed with fear of flats and the ensuing hassle. and you answered the question...can the battery hang for a 70 mile Sunday group ride?

I am in the camp that an e-bike's commuter value is making the ride sweat free. That trek is limited by the battery size...perhaps the answer to your commute lies in a more traditional bosch drive e-bike...more range, rack mounts, etc.

LBS had one of the said trek's e-road bike's on the floor. Yea, it weighs a lot and no way do you pedal it without the motor turned on.

[Mark McM]

I just hope these 28 MPH E bikes are illegal for Multi Use Trails.

This varies from state to state. Here in Massachusetts, these bikes are allowed in on-street bike lanes, but not on detached paths (like most MUTs). But I seriously doubt that these prohibitions will stop a lot of people from riding them on MUTs.

Most forest trails (i.e. hiking and MTB trails) here in Massachusetts specifically prohibit 'motorized vehicles'. These prohibitions go back many years and were probably originally aimed at motorcycles and ATVs. But I suspect that there is going to be a lot of conflict as e-MTBs become more popular, and some people claim that they are bicycles, while others claim that they are low-powered motorcycles. This will probably take years to sort out (just as it took years to sort out the appropriate place for human powered MTBs).

[dbnm]

I was in a tiny town in Tuscany two weeks ago and the piazza had a map and charging station for e-bikes.

[Peter P.]

An excellent, "real world" review. Thanks!

Kind of ironic that the bike is a Madone; a bike formerly known as a lightweight, performance/racing machine.

[BobbyJones]

An excellent, "real world" review. Thanks!

Kind of ironic that the bike is a Madone; a bike formerly known as a lightweight, performance/racing machine.

Not to be mr. correction cop, but I believe it’s a Domane+, an
Anagram of Madone.

I always thought of e-bikes as commuter machines or for those less able (?) than a “serious” cyclist. It’s interesting to hear how others would like to use them.

I guess if I wanted to do a 70 mile, two wheeled ride under power not my own with a group, I think I’d join a scooter club. But to each their own!

[eddief]

https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/voices/beyond-limits-a-new-generation-of-paced-training-video_495686

Check out the scenery and the smile on the ebiker's face.

[fried bake]

That’s so far off of a “roadie” type ebike like the Orbea Gain, (which is 26lbs,) that it’s similar in name only. I don’t think you’d be stunned to find a surly long haul trucker to be a poor crit racer either.

[Bostic]

Some more thoughts:

The Domane frame itself is quite nice. I have over 12,000 miles on my Volagi since I bought it back in 2012 so I have a good idea what a comfortable carbon bike feels like. Over beaten up pavement that is on a route I ride frequently the Domane was good. Not as smooth as the Volagi but certainly better than when I ride my Venge or Rex over that section of road. The tires were not setup tubeless and were inflated somewhere in the 80psi range. With the motor of course I could have simply switched to the two higher modes and gotten it over sooner but I wanted to do an honest assessment. I would say the design Trek has in place does what it’s supposed to do in the head tube and seat tube area. Some of that is hard to fully measure as the bike weighs so much and I’m not used to riding 700x35c tires.

I wanted to have the stem swapped to something longer like my personal bikes but the cable management is to say lightly, a mess of wires stuffed in there and just wasn’t an option. I felt slightly cramped on the tops but in the drops and hoods it was acceptable.

The kickstand on the left chain stay looks out of place but the bike is so heavy you want it there when propping it up.

No issues with the shifting at all. 11-36 in the back but with a motor up front, there is no missing those in between cogs due to the larger spacings. Just up the power mode one setting. It was a bit of a mental thing knowing there is just one chain ring and it’s a 20t granny at that.

The motor is not silent. There is a whirl whirl thing going on when in motion and shifting power modes increases that. I deliberately tried to throw it a curve but you can’t. The transmission is quite smart and you can’t jam it up by changing power modes back and forth quickly.

The Sram brakes squeaked after going down steep hills until the rotors cooled. Pretty much the same thing as the BB7’s I’ve used for years. They certainly had better modulation and I never was in doubt of being able to stop. On a day in the pouring rain, that would have been interesting to test. FWIW I'm 5' 7" 148lbs.

The battery was fully charged when I checked out the bike in the morning. On the lowest mode the range does in fact show 71 miles on the computer. That quickly lowers once you up the power. There are also basic bar indicators on it like you see on your mobile phone. The external charger gets hot during use. I didn’t ride the bike in the evening to see how well the lights work visibility-wise.

Looking at other drop bar E-Bikes I saw that Ribble and Orbea have models that have the motor in the seat tube but they don’t have the max speed the Trek has. They are also much lighter, cheaper and not something I could test ride in Silicon Valley. The Trek Domane+ is a $7000 first generation e-bike. How well would that motor hold up in rainy commutes? What is the service required for it after x amount of hours or mileage? These were questions the bike shop could not honestly answer me. I knew going in with the Volagi I was locking into a wonky 130mm rear disc hub for a first generation disc bike. That bike was no where near the cost.

Again, my main rational for testing the bike was to see was it worth it from a commuting standpoint to get me out of my car more often. Learning how to ride a motorcycle and lane split? Not an option. With the Trek Domane+ I’d never use it on a group ride. Never take it up to Sacramento to use on the American River Bike Trail. Never use it to train for a double century. I was very fortunate to have a 2.5 mile commute for 5 years. Then the Company got acquired and that turned into a much longer commute. Then I found a better job but the commute is only slightly shorter. I did the Caltrain thing for a year a decade ago and just don’t have that in me anymore. Sure if I absolutely had to then I would.

One rider’s honest assessment of this new technology that is not filled with ridiculous claims you would read in a published review.

[tony_mm]

Interesting review!

[fa63]

If you want a super commuter, there are many other options out there that do not require you to spend $5K or more. Here is mine; weighs 60 lbs fully loaded but still makes easy work of my commute. I paid $1500 for it two years ago.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190708/01ab79c15b049de25d93654829e45f1d.jpg

[d_douglas]

That’s crazy! A road bike that doesn’t allow you to ride more than 30miles at a time ?!?! That shouldn’t be on the market in my opinion...

[palincss]

T
Back to my original scenario, what would be the ideal parameters for my terrain? Within reason, something doable with today's technology?

Say, 25lbs total weight, sacrifice range/battery size and top speed to achieve that weight and only use it at peak load demand times, those last few 8, 12 and 15% grades of the ride.



Exactly what's on offer with the Ebikemotion X35 and Fazua Type 1 bikes I mentioned.

[MikeD]

I'm very surprised that you can ride your nonpowered bike faster when the Domaine+ is in low power mode and the next up mode is not much better. I have an Orbea Gain M20 and it's a few mph faster on average speed on rides I've done when compared to my Ritchey road bike when in the low power mode.

[CNY rider]

The problem with a lot of e-bikes that seems to be cropping up more and more, is that they are often operated by 'bicycle dilletants' who are weak on bike handling skills and who have even less experience with group riding dynamics and needs. Seems to be increasingly discussed by many in my riding circle....

I’m in the Dolomites now and these e-bikes are all over the place.
Including in the mountain passes.
The descents here are really hairy with steep pitch, and multiple 180 degree switchbacks on narrow roads. Not everything has a guardrail either.
I saw people who didn’t look like they had a lot of cycling skills heading up into the mountains. I don’t know how it goes when you put someone with limited cycling experience on a 35 pound bike and point them downhill on the passes.
Made me nervous for them.

[OtayBW]

I’m in the Dolomites now and these e-bikes are all over the place.
Including in the mountain passes.
The descents here are really hairy with steep pitch, and multiple 180 degree switchbacks on narrow roads. Not everything has a guardrail either.
I saw people who didn’t look like they had a lot of cycling skills heading up into the mountains. I don’t know how it goes when you put someone with limited cycling experience on a 35 pound bike and point them downhill on the passes.
Made me nervous for them.
Well, it's interesting. You know how it is in a mass start ride where there are tons of newer riders going all over the place, willy-nilly. Not usually my cup of tea. But this situation compounded by e-bikes seems to be becoming an increasing issue around here....

[Elefantino]

The lighter X-35 bikes (Orbea, Wilier, Focus) are getting closer to the sweet spot. I still figure that when it comes time to my needing an e-bike, they'll be even sweeter.

[fbhidy]

If you want a super commuter, there are many other options out there that do not require you to spend $5K or more. Here is mine; weighs 60 lbs fully loaded but still makes easy work of my commute. I paid $1500 for it two years ago.

Be sure to check and see if yours is part of the recall:
http://trek.scene7.com/is/content/TrekBicycleProducts/Asset%20Library/documents/Manuals/pdf/TK19_RECALL_Super_Commuter_Consumer_Notice_US_EN.p df

[fa63]

Thanks for the heads up. Mine is a Juiced CrossCurrent S, though I can see how it could be confused for the Trek :)

Be sure to check and see if yours is part of the recall:
http://trek.scene7.com/is/content/TrekBicycleProducts/Asset%20Library/documents/Manuals/pdf/TK19_RECALL_Super_Commuter_Consumer_Notice_US_EN.p df

[fbhidy]

Thanks for the heads up. Mine is a Juiced CrossCurrent S, though I can see how it could be confused for the Trek :)

Sorry, I read 'super commuter' in your post and had just read about the recall from Trek on their 'Super Commuter'!

[Bisquik]

So why a ebike performance? What is the essence of an ebike user; doesn't it have to be a tourist and not a connoisseur.

[palincss]

So why a ebike performance? What is the essence of an ebike user; doesn't it have to be a tourist and not a connoisseur.

Admittedly a small and non-random sample, but everyone I know who has an e-bike has health issues that effect performance: old (>80); had heart attacks; coronary artery blockages; cancer.

Without the motor assist, they can't keep up with their friends and would have to ride alone. As for "find a slower group," these folks already were riding with the slow group, and now they can't keep up with them and there is no "slower than that" group.

[Ttx1]

For the custom bike crowd, the Superpedestrian Copenhagen wheel is a great retrofit for a touring bike, cruiser, or even an otherwise retired road bike or 26er.

It has longer range (and regenerative braking), less weight overall, and no limits on fit or integration - it’s just a rear wheel with a self contained motor and battery.

All the same modes and control features are in an app.

$0.02.