Any builders/shops do straight contract building ?

[AngryScientist]

As in: I send in a bikecad sheet and get exactly what's on the sheet?

No hand holding, no consultation, no coddling, advice, nada - just keep costs down and build to my specs exactly.

Anyone doing that for single frames?

Just curious.

[David Tollefson]

As in: I send in a bikecad sheet and get exactly what's on the sheet?

No hand holding, no consultation, no coddling, advice, nada - just keep costs down and build to my specs exactly.

Anyone doing that for single frames?

Just curious.

Some might be willing, most wouldn't (or in my mind, shouldn't, at least without some discussion first). As for the "keeping costs down", that would be the big sticking point for me. I don't charge anything until the design is set and settled, then I take the deposit before I make any chips. Others take the deposit up front. But the costs are in the fabrication -- time. If you just want a fabrication of your design, you could take it to a machine shop.

[DRZRM]

There is a guy who I remember posting here who did this with a titanium bike in China. You design, they weld and ship. Don't remember the name of the place, but if they are still in business it can't be too hard to find. Whoever he was, he loved the bike.

[AngryScientist]

But the costs are in the fabrication -- time. .

most of them, but that upfront consultation still takes your time and costs something, right?

A machine shop generally speaking, does not have the skillset or tools to knock together a bicycle frame David, right? I would not expect any machine shop to have a frame jig, and be capable of welding thin gauge tube steel into a properly aligned frame. And it certainly would not be cost effective for them to do it on a one time basis.

[joosttx]

Ftw ....

[prototoast]

Waltly titanium in China does this and does it pretty well.

[weisan]

http://www.waltlytitanium.com/

[Blown Reek]

That's what I do, and don't think that it's an issue.

I know what I ride, what works for me, and I don't need (or want) some special magical voodoo that they (might) specialize in. It doesn't cost any less, doesn't make the wait time in the queue any less, though. And if the builder's ass gets chapped 'cause you're "undermining" the Master, too bad. It's a product and there's no mysticism behind it.

But if you want to have a new friend that you can bounce any and all ideas off of, feel free- I guess that's what some people like to do. Not me.

[pdonk]

I would suggest contacting Gabe at atruiste. When I met him a few months ago he seemed like a nice guy, trying to do his own thing in a place with few options. My track frame and fork should be on its way in the next few weeks.

He does his own thing, but also contract manufacturing, so may be interested in taking on a project, if it is not too weird.

His prices are "relatively" reasonable, and in Canadian Dollars. He has a large supply of NOS True Temper tubing, but will also build with Reynolds and Columbus. He will also ship you a raw frame to be painted by a person of your choice, or powder coat it for you.

His web site is quirky and seems to be a mess with pop ups and hacks, but try https://altruistebikes.com/products/

His email is altruistebikes at gmail.com


Here is my thread from the visit to his shop

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=236570&highlight=altruiste

[dgauthier]

You could probably get a nice custom from Seven based on only your numbers. I imagine any custom builder, large or small, would do it.

But if you think it would cost any less, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Bentley]

As in: I send in a bikecad sheet and get exactly what's on the sheet?

No hand holding, no consultation, no coddling, advice, nada - just keep costs down and build to my specs exactly.

Anyone doing that for single frames?

Just curious.

I would offer that I think he will do this, but I had a less than spectactular experience with Davis. Dont want to bash anyone here, but I think he will do that. I will add, if something does not work, it will be on you.

Ray

[FlashUNC]

Colossi may do it for you. But then you're waiting on a frame from China.

[ryker]

I imagine any builder would do it unless the spec is outside their skillset or interests. I had a custom frame built with maybe 2-3 emails because I sent a BikeCAD drawing in the first place but I didn't expect or request any kind of price adjustment.

[Gummee]

There is a guy who I remember posting here who did this with a titanium bike in China. You design, they weld and ship. Don't remember the name of the place, but if they are still in business it can't be too hard to find. Whoever he was, he loved the bike.

I had a custom Spirit frame made by Colossi. Dutch guy that moved to China...

Welds are very nice. Cost was too.

I picked the angles, lengths, etc and they built it then custom painted it.

M

[David Tollefson]

Let me clarify my position -- I'm not against taking some one else's numbers, as long as we have the conversation about WHY those numbers are where they are and I agree that they'll get the desired result. If some one says that they was X ride characteristics and I feel that the numbers say they'll get Y result, I would most likely pass on the project.

[Bentley]

Ftw ....

I can heartily endorse Frank the Welder, but I am pretty sure he wont just build a frame that he does not have input into. In my case I reached out wanting him to build a bike, based on the Spooky Mulholland, but built to my specifications... I wanted an aluminum frame, well he basically told me (in a nice way) that is not the right bike for me and is building me a frame as we speak. I suspect the best solution will be a frame from a builder in Taiwan that is willing to take the work.

Best

Ray

[PaMtbRider]

Just curious where you are headed with this. Would you be duplicating an existing bike? Do you have a few tweaks you would like to make to a current bike, or is this a culmination of a bunch of different bikes and fits that you have generated a set of numbers from?

[cmbicycles]

Sign up for a frame building class, you get exactly what you want and get to build it as well.

[David Kirk]

I've been asked this question a number of times. I don't give a blanket "no" as an answer but instead I say it depends.

In most cases people are asking for something that I know will not work or be safe. Will I build a bike with an 80° head angle? Nope. How about 100mm of BB drop? Nope.

If the requests make some sense then many builders will be open to it....if not then the risk to one's reputation or the exposure huge liability means it makes zero sense to say yes to a "will you do anything I want?" question.

So it all depends.

dave

[AngryScientist]

Just curious where you are headed with this. Would you be duplicating an existing bike? Do you have a few tweaks you would like to make to a current bike, or is this a culmination of a bunch of different bikes and fits that you have generated a set of numbers from?

it's just a conceptual idea in my head, but the basic idea would be to duplicate an existing bike with features that do not exist on that bike.

Also, very good input from everyone here, thank you.

[echelon_john]

Frank the Welder will definitely take a bikecad file, and build it with any tweaks you/he agree on. He’s a pleasure to work with and his frames are a huge value IMO.

I’m intrigued by Waltly and may do a ti frame with them at some point.

[echelon_john]

Also, Nick, if you want help drafting/bouncing ideas around let me know.

[AngryScientist]

Thanks John!

Good stuff.

[OtayBW]

I wonder what's the ~over/under on cost savings. I mean there’s likely negligible overhead associated with consultation and I’d guess probably minimal cost assuming you had serious intention or a deposit down.

[Bentley]

Never been charged, but I had already made the decision to buy. I’m guessing if you go in and the builder spends a bunch of time and senses it’s not going anywhere there might be a charge, but not my experience.

[dougefresh]

I’m intrigued by Waltly and may do a ti frame with them at some point.

I actually just sent a rfq into Walty based on a hardtail I'd like to build one day.

[Heisenberg]

I wonder what's the ~over/under on cost savings. I mean there’s likely negligible overhead associated with consultation and I’d guess probably minimal cost assuming you had serious intention or a deposit down.

eh, the geo/fit consult isn't that bad, in most situations.

it's paint/finish where people get mired.

what is it you're looking for, exactly?

[Black Dog]

Geometry is one thing but what about tube diameter and wall thickness, butting, tubbing producer, welded, lugged, fillet, material (ti, steel, Al)? Paint? Dropouts?Braze-ons? More than just a cad drawing that goes into a frame. Will you be specifying all of these details too? If not there will have to be some questions asked and answered. I would doubt that this part of the process is significant in terms of time and cost and would save a lot of heart ache. When I quote on a job that will run from 2 figures all the way into the 6 figures, the time spent up front is the most valuable and necessary part fo the job. There are so many details that even the most knowledgable, prepared and decided client may not have considered and I need to ask. If they don't want me to ask the questions and check off the boxes then I walk. A good builder would do the same or provide you with a million clauses to protect themselves if you wished to skip this part of the build process.

[Heisenberg]

Geometry is one thing but what about tube diameter and wall thickness, butting, tubbing producer, welded, lugged, fillet, material (ti, steel, Al)? Paint? Dropouts?Braze-ons? More than just a cad drawing that goes into a frame. Will you be specifying all of these details too? If not there will have to be some questions asked and answered. I would doubt that this part of the process is significant in terms of time and cost and would save a lot of heart ache. When I quote on a job that will run from 2 figures all the way into the 6 figures, the time spent up front is the most valuable and necessary part fo the job. There are so many details that even the most knowledgable, prepared and decided client may not have considered and I need to ask. If they don't want me to ask the questions and check off the boxes then I walk. A good builder would do the same or provide you with a million clauses to protect themselves if you wished to skip this part of the build process.

was about to come in and revise my post, and then...THIS.

you CAN represent yourself in a court of law. but you probably shouldn't.

bike design is so much more than geometry. it's the interplay of materials, environmental stress, weight, rider input, yadda, yadda, yadda.

there's a reason many bike companies employ materials engineers.

[OtayBW]

eh, the geo/fit consult isn't that bad, in most situations.

it's paint/finish where people get mired.

what is it you're looking for, exactly?Just wondering if the cost savings would be anything meaningful by forgoing the consultation. And yes - I can see that for geo/fit, it's probably not a big saving if you know what you need.

Geometry is one thing but what about tube diameter and wall thickness, butting, tubbing producer, welded, lugged, fillet, material (ti, steel, Al)? Paint? Dropouts?Braze-ons? More than just a cad drawing that goes into a frame. Will you be specifying all of these details too? If not there will have to be some questions asked and answered. I would doubt that this part of the process is significant in terms of time and cost and would save a lot of heart ache. When I quote on a job that will run from 2 figures all the way into the 6 figures, the time spent up front is the most valuable and necessary part fo the job. There are so many details that even the most knowledgable, prepared and decided client may not have considered and I need to ask. If they don't want me to ask the questions and check off the boxes then I walk. A good builder would do the same or provide you with a million clauses to protect themselves if you wished to skip this part of the build process.On the other hand, I can see where just sending a geo/fit sheet to a builder would deprive you of a lot of the expertise RE: his/her knowledge of tube characteristics, ride quality, etc. So, on balance, for me, it seems to me that consultation is really pretty good value....

[Heisenberg]

Just wondering if the cost savings would be anything meaningful by forgoing the consultation. And yes - I can see that for geo/fit, it's probably not a big saving if you know what you need.

On the other hand, I can see where just sending a geo/fit sheet to a builder would deprive you of a lot of the expertise RE: his/her knowledge of tube characteristics, ride quality, etc. So, on balance, for me, it seems to me that consultation is really pretty good value....

most decent builders aren't going to build something for you without a consult, in some form.

it's like walking into an attorney's office and asking them to sue someone for you for x without actually speaking to the lawyer.

there's more than a cad sheet. always.

the tl;dr of this thread: you're not going to save any money trying to cut corners. but you may end up with a ****ty bike.

[d_douglas]

the tl;dr of this thread: you're not going to save any money trying to cut corners. but you may end up with a ****ty bike.

Well put. I think you'd just annoy a framebuilder with a request like that, in spite of you know a fair bit about geometry, etc.

[AngryScientist]

it's like walking into an attorney's office and asking them to sue someone for you for x without actually speaking to the lawyer.

.

disagree.

we here like to romanticize bicycles, but the bottom line is that a bicycle frame is a piece of mechanical hardware, period.

if a client knows exactly what they want, they absolutely can create a detailed specification that has no grey areas.

now i would agree that many/most clients are not skilled enough to create a specification detailed enough to get exactly what they want, but this attorney analogy is not representative of specifying a bike frame.

for a little background, i have spent enough time in the design engineering world to understand the variables at play.

[AngryScientist]

Well put. I think you'd just annoy a framebuilder with a request like that, in spite of you know a fair bit about geometry, etc.

this is why i asked if anyone specialized in this. i would not want to ask a custom framebuilder to build to my specs blindly if that's not what they do.

another example is vicious cycles and frank the welder. they do contract work for at least a few other small custom bike manufacturers. someone designs the bikes, and someone else builds them to their specs. it's not exactly a foreign concept.

if you buy a gaulzetti, you get a bike spec'd by craig and built to his specs by someone else.

my question was.....does anyone offer this service on a per/bike basis.

[AngryScientist]

also, i'm not trying to come across as knowing more than anyone, or downplaying the importance of the framebuilder's expertise, but in this particular case, i happen to know exactly what i want, that's all :beer:

[FlashUNC]

this is why i asked if anyone specialized in this. i would not want to ask a custom framebuilder to build to my specs blindly if that's not what they do.

another example is vicious cycles and frank the welder. they do contract work for at least a few other small custom bike manufacturers. someone designs the bikes, and someone else builds them to their specs. it's not exactly a foreign concept.

if you buy a gaulzetti, you get a bike spec'd by craig and built to his specs by someone else.

my question was.....does anyone offer this service on a per/bike basis.

I'll resubmit Colossi. But to your earlier point, the charts I saw sent to them and returned to confirm before production, were far more detailed than just a BikeCAD sketch.

[gdw]

If you don't mind buying from a European builder contact Mercian. https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/

[joosttx]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48122990303_5c1736cd4a_b.jpg

[saab2000]

this is why i asked if anyone specialized in this. i would not want to ask a custom framebuilder to build to my specs blindly if that's not what they do.

another example is vicious cycles and frank the welder. they do contract work for at least a few other small custom bike manufacturers. someone designs the bikes, and someone else builds them to their specs. it's not exactly a foreign concept.

if you buy a gaulzetti, you get a bike spec'd by craig and built to his specs by someone else.

my question was.....does anyone offer this service on a per/bike basis.

It is possible that Co-Motion does this kind of work. Worth an ask at least.

[Black Dog]

disagree.

we here like to romanticize bicycles, but the bottom line is that a bicycle frame is a piece of mechanical hardware, period.

if a client knows exactly what they want, they absolutely can create a detailed specification that has no grey areas.

now i would agree that many/most clients are not skilled enough to create a specification detailed enough to get exactly what they want, but this attorney analogy is not representative of specifying a bike frame.

for a little background, i have spent enough time in the design engineering world to understand the variables at play.

I agree that you may not need the builder to do the geo for you but other aspects need to be considered. Being and engineer and being knowledgeable about bikes is not an a priori qualification to completely spec every detail of a bike (unless you are copying an existing bike that you have all the specs for). You would absolutely not expect spec to remain the same in terms of tubing etc throughout the size range of frames but do you know when and where those changes should be made and by how much along the spectrum of sizes for a given design/engineering goal. I know this is not rocket science, but at the same time, you may not get what you are asking for if you don't know what you should be asking for.

If you feel that you have the prerequisite knowledge and I am certainly not saying that you don't, then your position is valid. I just have a lot of experience with engineers from other fields being by far the most challenging clients to work with because they often assume that there is a natural transference of complete expertise across to other design/build areas. There is not. For the record Nick, I am not painting you with this brush, does not seem to be your style. Is it pride or thrift that is driving your desire to avoid a simple consultation that may be beneficial to you both; or perhaps you just have something exact to copy, just curious?

[prototoast]

this is why i asked if anyone specialized in this. i would not want to ask a custom framebuilder to build to my specs blindly if that's not what they do.

another example is vicious cycles and frank the welder. they do contract work for at least a few other small custom bike manufacturers. someone designs the bikes, and someone else builds them to their specs. it's not exactly a foreign concept.

if you buy a gaulzetti, you get a bike spec'd by craig and built to his specs by someone else.

my question was.....does anyone offer this service on a per/bike basis.

Yeah, you're on the right track. Don't overthink this. You won't end up with a custom-butted Firefly or Spectrum, but if you take your bikecad drawing to an OEM builder, you're probably going to end up with a bike that you're happy with.

[rwsaunders]

Ftw ....

+1...FTW FTW...that’s Frank the Welder for the win. Might make a good vanity license plate...FTWFTW...or *** or ****** if you're dyslexic or looking in the rear view mirror.

[John H.]

I bet John Slawta would do it- But it would be in carbon.

[charliedid]

I don't think it would be very hard to find someone to build you what you want. The question is what you want? Are you simply wanting to supply your geo/fit numbers to a builder, that's done all the time but the builder/company obviously has veto/oversight power if they are putting their good name on it. Are you also wanting to spec tubing, tubing manipulation etc? If it's simply "I love the way this Ritchey rides, can you make this but do x to it" as a starting point is normal but still a convo.

Plenty of examples of "custom" geo to accommodate peoples fit and preference from many very well respected builders. Not that I think that is always a good thing. You know the ones...

Or is this a one-off original design that you have that you want come to life just for yourself or are you wanting to "produce" them? Prototype if you will.

Sorry if these questions have been answered but I didn't notice. Obviously you don't need to share more than you want to.

[Bentley]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48122990303_5c1736cd4a_b.jpg

No intention of hijacking the thread, but this is nice, your work?

Best

Ray

[oldpotatoe]

As in: I send in a bikecad sheet and get exactly what's on the sheet?

No hand holding, no consultation, no coddling, advice, nada - just keep costs down and build to my specs exactly.

Anyone doing that for single frames?

Just curious.

I'd bet, that w/i reason, Richard Schwinn would do that when building a Waterford...

Call him.

And probably Mark Nobilette...

[d_douglas]

ha! This never ends. I qualify my comment that you would 'annoy' builders with this request. Obviously, you are aware that some builders would feel this way, but that is the reason for your question - who WOULD BE interested vs who would be annoyed and not interested.

To your point, you seem to know more than the average bear about geometry (I think you have an engineering background?) so that you could make an informed decision on what you want. I know some, but not enough, myself so I would seek the input of a builder.

Let us know what you end up doing! As for Co-Motion - they are a pretty cool company. there are a fair number of them rolling around Victoria, and they're always very nicely put together.

[Mark McM]

I did something like this when I got my custom T.E.T. from Tom Teesdale about 15 years ago. I was interested in a True Temper S3 steel frame, and Tom advertised that he was just starting to build with this tubeset. I contacted him (via email) with what I wanted. The information I included was all the major frame dimensions (seat tube length and angle, top tube length, chainstay length, head tube angle, fork length/offset/steerer diameter, bottom bracket drop, BB shell width and threads); and fittings and braze-ons (cable stop locations, pump peg, chain hanger, water bottle bosses). I also included my height and weight, and the make and model of frame I was currently riding (including its geometry). He emailed me back a drawing with the additional details filled in (like seat collar clamp type, dropped seat stays, headtube reinforcing rings), plus some comments some practical advice on a few changes to my original specs. After one more email exchange to nail down the final details (including paint color), I sent a deposit to start the build process.

I had expected that the turn-around time would be a few months, but to my surprise, the completed frame arrived at my doorstep only 3 weeks after sending the deposit (and that included paint and shipping). After a quick check to confirm that frame matched the drawing, I built it up, and have been riding it ever since. I am very satisfied with the frame and with the transaction. Sadly, Tom passed away a few years ago.

[timto]

As in: I send in a bikecad sheet and get exactly what's on the sheet?

No hand holding, no consultation, no coddling, advice, nada - just keep costs down and build to my specs exactly.

Anyone doing that for single frames?

Just curious.

I'm a hobby builder and I just finished a bike for a buddy just like this scenario. I appreciated that it was a well thought out design, nothing weird was requested. Of course there will be back and forth - things like triple bottle stops , last min rack bosses... so I bet in Angry's case the bike isn't going to be too weird and there WILL be builders that don't mind at all!



My 2 cents.

[weisan]

tim pal, you forgot to include your address so Angry can mail in his deposit...

[timto]

tim pal, you forgot to include your address so Angry can mail in his deposit...

ha ha I'm not building anymore!! Just on an as for fun basis. Bike making is a challenging thing - my hats of to the pros who do it day in and day out. I just wanted to mention the 'it depends' and probably in Angry's situation he'll have a well thought out design that would be straight forward to do.

[dougefresh]

I got a quote back from Walty last night. Fully spec'd by me titanium hardtail. $800 plus $150 for ship.

[AngryScientist]

I got a quote back from Walty last night. Fully spec'd by me titanium hardtail. $800 plus $150 for ship.

amazing. did they quote delivery time?

[Ernesto]

ha ha I'm not building anymore!! Just on an as for fun basis. Bike making is a challenging thing - my hats of to the pros who do it day in and day out. I just wanted to mention the 'it depends' and probably in Angry's situation he'll have a well thought out design that would be straight forward to do.

That's too bad! Pretty sure I saw you last weekend riding on a green Granville road bike (up Booth Street) and thought to myself that I wouldn't mind one of your bikes. It looked right!

[dougefresh]

amazing. did they quote delivery time?

their website states 35-45 days from date of placing order and another 7-10 for shipping.

[janky]

I worked with Walty on a project that I had a really clear idea of what I wanted built. I’m happy with the end result but as novice I seen now how it would have been easier (maybe better?) to work with someone who could of guided me more. In my case I was working really hard to optimize for short chain stays and what I thought could be built wasn’t as straight forward as I had hoped. The decisions that I had to make ended up working out well but a more collaborative builder might have helped me get to the end result faster. I really like the frame that I got out of the process and would consider them again for the right project. They seem like a good match for what the OP is/was looking for.

[Gummee]

There is a guy who I remember posting here who did this with a titanium bike in China. You design, they weld and ship. Don't remember the name of the place, but if they are still in business it can't be too hard to find. Whoever he was, he loved the bike.

Waltly and Titan do Ti

Colossi does steel and AL

M