Re-thinking Rapha quality commitment and customer service

[tv_vt]

I have been a pretty loyal Rapha customer for a decade or so. Wear lots of their stuff, almost always impressed with their quality.
Two years ago, I bought 2 pairs of their Brevet bibshorts. Recently I noticed on both pairs that the chamois has twisted where it narrowed in the crotch and was very lumpy. It appeared to me that the chamois had a second piece used for the narrow part and the join between the two pieces twisted and separated.
I contacted Rapha the other day to see if this issue could be repaired or rectified. This was their reply:

Really sorry to hear about this. Sadly we will not be able to help you in the case as the shorts were purchased over 18 months ago.

Please let us know if there's anything we else we can do to help.

Kind Regards,

Alex

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

R A P H A

Performance Roadwear

www.rapha.cc


Guess I never knew Rapha only has an 18 month warranty on their $200+ shorts. Will keep that in mind next time I'm shopping for a pair of bibs.

[Spdntrxi]

18 months is a long time... just saying

[daker13]

The Walmart boys don't need the money, but they want to cut costs and make their pet project look like a profitable business. So long to customer service.

[charliedid]

Two years? They don't know what you did to them, you may have been washing them on hot and drying them.

Time for new shorts.

[Morgul Bismark]

18 months seems entirely reasonable.

[Irishgirl]

Thinking 18 months is a generous timeframe.

Has anyone experienced a more generous return policy from other clothing lines?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[54ny77]

Absolutely. My grandmother would repair her handmade knitted slippers if I wore a hole through them, free of charge.

;)

Thinking 18 months is a generous timeframe.

Has anyone experienced a more generous return policy from other clothing lines?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Irishgirl]

Absolutely. My grandmother would repair her handmade knitted slippers if I wore a hole through them, free of charge.

;)



Which would make those slippers priceless!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[martl]

Thinking 18 months is a generous timeframe.

Has anyone experienced a more generous return policy from other clothing lines?


Certainly. When the zippers of my outdoor zip off-pants failed, i sent the item back to factory to get new ones sown in. As the piece was already several years old, i fully expected to get charged. Mammut replaced the zippers and sent them back to me no charge, not even postage.

Outside of the clothing business, i had similar experiences with Lupine (high end bicycle lights) who would replace a rechargable battery that didn't hold charge after a while, without even demanding to see or receiving the old one. Zeiss and Rollei both did repairs/service, and in Rollei's case even a mechanical product upgrade for free.
Bottom line: *Some* premium brands also have excellent service - some, not all of them - Lightweight charged me to redo the brittle breaking surface on my disk wheel, for example. They were entirely within their right to do so, but i can't praise them as much as the others.

[charliedid]

Thinking 18 months is a generous timeframe.

Has anyone experienced a more generous return policy from other clothing lines?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, Pearl Izumi has always had a lifetime (manufacturing) warranty but IMO defects will show up relatively quickly.

[Dino Suegiù]

Thinking 18 months is a generous timeframe.

Has anyone experienced a more generous return policy from other clothing lines?
Not outright return for complete refund, no of course not.

But I have had really excellent service from Patagonia for instance, on garments I'm sure more damaged than the op's Rapha bibs.

Not only was the service really superb, and more than fair, but the service communication itself whether via email, telephone, or face to face, was far more courteous and positive than the rather cold email reply quoted above by the op. That communication turns me off to Rapha even more than before.


Patagonia Guarantee:
We guarantee everything we make. If you are not satisfied with one of our products at the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform to your satisfaction, return it to the store you bought it from or to Patagonia for a repair, replacement or refund. Damage due to wear and tear will be repaired at a reasonable charge.

Patagonia even pro-rated a 7/8 year old jacket for me, the pro-rated refund (which surprisingly was more than I ever would have guessed) applied to a new jacket; it was a very fair exchange, and I also like their policies in general; they said they would completely re-cycle my old jacket, all of it.

[joosttx]

The Walmart boys don't need the money, but they want to cut costs and make their pet project look like a profitable business. So long to customer service.

Rather they use the money for the bicycle philanthropic pursuits than give a guy another pair of bibs after 18 months of use. What’s the greater good???

[Dino Suegiù]

Rather they use the money for the bicycle philanthropic pursuits than give a guy another pair of bibs after 18 months of use. What’s the greater good???

Well that "guy" probably deserved better service than their reply to him implies, and in any case he is certainly not responsible for Rapha's "philanthropic pursuits", which even so are partially funded by his purchase.

Somehow, I just don't see the halos there. :rolleyes:

But, I suppose the first "philanthropic pursuit" could be to build better than 18-month bibs for what they charge. Or at least be philanthropically honest and call them "18 Month Bibs"....

[fogrider]

Warranties for the most part is a kind of marketing...sure a company should stand behind their products from defects and workmanship. But after years of use, it's hard to say that the product was defective...sure you could say that something could be better made but they could say it should be washed in the gentle cycle. But they build their customer service when they just replace product for free...and hope you are so impressed that you buy more and spread the word that they have a great product and stand behind their stuff. Then they bank on the fact that many people just don't use their stuff so much that they will need the warranty.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[joosttx]

But, I suppose the first "philanthropic pursuit" could be to build better than 18-month bibs for what they charge. Or at least be philanthropically honest and call them "18 Month Bibs"....

Or this

https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/stories/rapha-foundation

Again, I rather see them do this ——-^ than have an anything-goes warranty program. Not saying they cannot do both. But I rather they use some of their profits to help those who cannot.

BTW Rapha’s quality has always been hit or miss.

[Dino Suegiù]

Or this

https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/stories/rapha-foundation

Again, I rather see them do this ——-^ than have an anything-goes warranty program. Not saying they cannot do both. But I rather they use some of their profits to help those who cannot.

BTW Rapha’s quality has always been hit or miss.

Well then, also again, I do not feel that any "philanthropic pursuits" or "greater good" arguments can or should be justified by inferior service and/or quality, or that physical quality and service be made sacrificial, subservient aspects of the metaphysical id card. They should be at least independent branches, one hopes, but more important both expressions of a single, congruent philosophy. This does not seem to be quite the case here, and there really shouldn't be a "but/either/or" as any part of it, imo.

Patagonia (as I stated above from my own experiences) has equally or arguably more beneficial philanthropic programs AND a better, more humane, customer service program. I would bet that other companies do as well.

And, yes, in fact I personally would prefer that Rapha take care of tv_vt and others better, first and as policy, and not simply abandon him/them on the "greater good" battlefield and so not do anything to reinforce and retain the relationship (especially a loyal, long-term, repeat customer) while simultaneously patting themselves/being patted on the back for being somehow so very altruistic. Pretty ironic....

But enough; Rapha "discussions" are far too often like this, and quickly become too tedious, so to each their own really.

Good luck, op. /

[joosttx]

Well then, also again, I do not feel that any "philanthropic pursuits" or "greater good" arguments can or should be justified by inferior service and/or quality, or that physical quality and service be made sacrificial, subservient aspects of the metaphysical id card. They should be at least independent branches, one hopes, but more important both expressions of a single, congruent philosophy. This does not seem to be quite the case here, and there really shouldn't be a "but/either/or" as any part of it, imo.

Patagonia (as I stated above from my own experiences) has equally or arguably more beneficial philanthropic programs AND a better, more humane, customer service program. I would bet that other companies do as well.

And, yes, in fact I personally would prefer that Rapha take care of tv_vt and others better, first and as policy, and not simply abandon him/them on the "greater good" battlefield and so not do anything to reinforce and retain the relationship (especially a loyal, long-term, repeat customer) while simultaneously patting themselves/being patted on the back for being somehow so very altruistic. Pretty ironic....

But enough; Rapha "discussions" are far too often like this, and quickly become too tedious, so to each their own really.

Good luck, op. /

Little of Patagonia clothing is used for performance activities. In other words, Their clothes are not being stressed too much draped on the dude going to get coffee. That’s why they have a great warranty and can afford to have a great warranty (there is a case study about this in some academic journal as I recall). When Patagonia has clothing exclusively used for performance they hedge their warranty. Case in point, look at the warranty policy for their wetsuits (you don’t wear wetsuits to get coffee).

Rapha clothing almost exclusively is used in performance activities. That’s why they are probably backtracking on their warranty. 18 months is a long time to get a replacement on something like a bib.

If the OP is looking for a high quality durable brand bib. Checkout Q365. Their bibs last forever.

[Dino Suegiù]

Little of Patagonia clothing is used for performance activities.
Ours was, extensively in fact. Many other people's too.

In other words, Their clothes are not being stressed too much draped on the dude going to get coffee. When Patagonia has clothing exclusively used for performance they hedge their warranty. Case in point, look at the warranty policy for their wetsuits (you don’t wear wetsuits to get coffee).

Rapha clothing almost exclusively is used in performance activities.

I would bet that surfers do.
But either way, I have to say, I really do love the irony....

https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/aQWzidkUwYgUv08jw_RuhQ/348s.jpghttps://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/SaIRWaYUJ3pqU3ocaF95Lw/348s.jpg

[joosttx]

Ours was, extensively in fact. Many other people's too.



I would bet that surfers do.
But either way, I have to say, I really do love the irony....

https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/aQWzidkUwYgUv08jw_RuhQ/348s.jpghttps://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/SaIRWaYUJ3pqU3ocaF95Lw/348s.jpg

Surfers don’t put on wetsuits to get coffee.
Cyclists don’t put on bibs to get coffee.

Apologies for being nuanced.

[paredown]

My counter story--involves Ecco shoes, who have always has a 1 year warranty (I think) and a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects.

I recently had a pair of Ecco soft-soled dress shoes--at least 10 years old, but rarely worn--where the soles disintegrated--some sort of composition material that disintegrated just from age. When I called them up to complain, they had me send them in, and then they gave me a coupon to purchase a new pair of shoes online. They did the same for a pair of the Track II vibram sole shoes--similar age with almost no wear and a similar disintegration problem. They did ask me to send the shoes in for a look--like a bike warranty--I'm assuming they took a look at the wear etc before making the determination.

I was already a lifetime customer, but it confirmed to me that they really stand behind their product (and they are a carriage trade brand like Rapha).

I agree with the OP--this is not much of a warranty for a very high-end product. What would it cost them to do a similar 'mail in for determination' program?

[pdonk]

Arctecyx is amazing.

Bought a jacket on sale. It was a three in one so wore the shell frequently. The gortex delaminated. I sent them pics and dropped off the jacket to a store. Had a new jacket in a week.

Now for above and beyond part.

Jacket was 5 years old.
Jacket was bought seriously on sale, thinking 70% off. So about $600.
Model no longer made so they offered me the current equivalent - which now retails for $2200.

They also will repair all of their gear.

Only limitation is a single replacement of item.

I also understand ll bean has a stricter return policy.

I'd suggest any company that warranties lycra would be in a hard spot due to level of care. Hard goods is likely easier.

[marciero]

18 month warranty?? Who knew? It would never have even occurred to me to try to return a pair of bibs after two full seasons. i guess i should read the fine print on my bibs.

[Likes2ridefar]

Little of Patagonia clothing is used for performance activities. In other words, Their clothes are not being stressed too much draped on the dude going to get coffee. That’s why they have a great warranty and can afford to have a great warranty (there is a case study about this in some academic journal as I recall). When Patagonia has clothing exclusively used for performance they hedge their warranty. Case in point, look at the warranty policy for their wetsuits (you don’t wear wetsuits to get coffee).

Rapha clothing almost exclusively is used in performance activities. That’s why they are probably backtracking on their warranty. 18 months is a long time to get a replacement on something like a bib.

If the OP is looking for a high quality durable brand bib. Checkout Q365. Their bibs last forever.

I’d argue summiting a mountain, which many people use Patagonia for, is demanding on clothing. Ten miles yesterday up a 13k ft mtn., forgot my Patagonia shirt was drying on backpack most the hike. It got stuck by pine trees, slid down dirt, snow, and rock...it was filthy by the end. If I had damaged it, I could’ve sent it to Patagonia and they would fix it.

The R1 I wore the entire hike had the friction of a backpack all day on it with a belt strap grinding away. Worse than normal because I run sometimes...it also slid on dirt, rocks, and snow.

My wife sent in her Patagonia down jacket that is maybe 8 years old with two holes by the pockets from normal use. They fixed both, fluffed up the down somehow and cleaned it nicely. For free...

[R3awak3n]

My experience is the opposite.

Pad on my classic bibs was coming undone, messaged rapha for repair and they said cant be repaired... they sent me $100 gift certificate. Those must have been over 2 years old so I was not expecting much.

My pro winter bibs had the same issue, this time though I had barely used them, they had 1 winter season and I did not even ride that much that winter. Messaged them, they sent me $300 gift voucher, also said cant be repaired. Now mind you I bought those on sale for $160.

CS has been impecable to me but I do wish they were repairing things.

People are coming down on OP but I think he is commenting on this because say 5 years ago rapha would repair all this stuff, even if stuff was 5 years old. I think they have realized that its a bad business move (and why almost no clothing store does it, save for like patagonia and a few others). So they have gone from actually repairing, to offering vouchers, to doing nothing about it.

As far as rapha quality, I would not say its hit and miss but more like hit, hit, hit and miss. I have been happy with it overall. The first bibs I mentioned had a lot of use for sure but the last ones didnt and is really the first piece of clothes I had problems with (actually I had some gloves ce indone but they were given to me second hand by a friend so wont count those)

[Likes2ridefar]

Arctecyx is amazing.

Bought a jacket on sale.

They also will repair all of their gear.

Only limitation is a single replacement of item.

I also understand ll bean has a stricter return policy.

I'd suggest any company that warranties lycra would be in a hard spot due to level of care. Hard goods is likely easier.

Similar arcteryx experience with multiple products. I got a hard shell half off, a few years later slipped while winter hiking and slid down some rough ice. It abused the front of the shell. I contacted them and they sent me a brand new jacket of the current model theta ar (way more $ and much nicer than what I had)

They replaced a soft shell that was purchased half off, maybe 8 years later, when it started to look pretty beat from years of winter commuting on a bike in NYC. I just wanted them fix a few things...

[CNY rider]

I have different expectations from a Patagonia jacket and a pair of cycling bibs.
I bought a new Patagonia shell last winter. I expect to be skiing in that shell 10 years from now. It’s a durable outerwear piece.
I don’t expect more than a couple of years of intensive use from any pair of bibs. They just wear out. Then I use them for commuter duty for a year or two and finally they go away completely.

[charliedid]

I thought we were talking about cycling clothing...

[Mikej]

I am wondering this: some of the warranty return experience posted here may not be the norm? Do these companies have a quota to go above and beyond and once they reach that it’s just too bad? Pretty sure everything wears out if you use it enough, therefore at some point if everyone called Patagonia because their jackets wore out or the down is sticking me or the zippers broke etc. they would be run out of business. I say buy a new set of bibs, you might find out just how nice a new set feels!

[gavingould]

bibs are a wear item, like brake pads.

however, 18mo i would consider a bit short for them to go severely downhill, unless that's the only bibs you have and they take a lot of mileage.
i have a set of Rapha Classic bibshorts that are probably in year 7 or 8, but in a rotation among others and i don't ride a ton. if you're behind me, please let me know if they're getting threadbare.

Patagonia has always been pretty solid for me - i've abused a couple of their jackets pretty badly while photographing cyclocross, but still nothing like mountaineering would. proper care and feeding as far as wash and re-proofing goes a long way.

[tv_vt]

18 month warranty?? Who knew? It would never have even occurred to me to try to return a pair of bibs after two full seasons. i guess i should read the fine print on my bibs.

OP here. Let me be clear. I was not attempting to return these bibs. Rapha has a "Repair Service" and I was hoping they could be repaired. That's all. But they weren't interested.
These shorts have not seen heavy use. I have a ton of shorts in the rotation. I would guess certainly less than 50 wears each, more like worn less than 40 times. Washed cold in a laundry bag.

[joosttx]

I am wondering this: some of the warranty return experience posted here may not be the norm? Do these companies have a quota to go above and beyond and once they reach that it’s just too bad? Pretty sure everything wears out if you use it enough, therefore at some point if everyone called Patagonia because their jackets wore out or the down is sticking me or the zippers broke etc. they would be run out of business. I say buy a new set of bibs, you might find out just how nice a new set feels!

The reason why Patagonia can do it are for several reasons.

1) majority of their products don’t see extreme use.
2) great margins on their products “pataguccci”
3) streamlined the return/replacement policy

What is amazing to me and I’m reading it right here in this thread is that Patagonia is really owning their branding message. Instead of most forumites, here, who attest overpriced, status-type stuff, and view them savvy shoppers, Patagonia has them singing the virtues of their repair/return policy.

Patagonia has worked very hard to show that they are a stainable conscience quality brand. No where do they want to be viewed, at least overtly, as a status brand. And judging from you guy’s defense of them they are going an excellent job.

[daker13]

Rather they use the money for the bicycle philanthropic pursuits than give a guy another pair of bibs after 18 months of use. What’s the greater good???

If you want me to praise the Walton family, it's not going to happen.

I wouldn't expect Rapha to give the op a new pair, but I thought their promise was a lifetime warranty--repair or replace.

I'm definitely not a fan of trying to get warranty replacements for everything at the drop of a hat, even if the company has a generous policy. However, if it's a premium brand, it's reasonable to expect more from them. To me, a repair service is perfectly acceptable, even if I have to pay for it. I've had Patagonia repair a couple of things for me, but this was before every undergrad in America started wearing their products. It's not just about getting something for free, it's the principle of not throwing away a perfectly good item.

Granted, it's a tough call with bib shorts, since it's tough to say whether excessive wear is due to poor materials or something else.

[joosttx]

I’d argue summiting a mountain, which many people use Patagonia for, is demanding on clothing. Ten miles yesterday up a 13k ft mtn., forgot my Patagonia shirt was drying on backpack most the hike. It got stuck by pine trees, slid down dirt, snow, and rock...it was filthy by the end. If I had damaged it, I could’ve sent it to Patagonia and they would fix it.

The R1 I wore the entire hike had the friction of a backpack all day on it with a belt strap grinding away. Worse than normal because I run sometimes...it also slid on dirt, rocks, and snow.

My wife sent in her Patagonia down jacket that is maybe 8 years old with two holes by the pockets from normal use. They fixed both, fluffed up the down somehow and cleaned it nicely. For free...


I would argue that there far more people who wear Patagonia and pay a lot of money for it don’t do any of the activities that you list while wearing it. Sitting in class, driving a car, working a white collar desk job, getting coffee I bet are the majority activities folks do in Patagonia clothing. The mark up on those clothes Fund the repair/return policy.

[FlashUNC]

The Rapha of today is not the Rapha pre-buyout. It is what it is.

And the foundations first foray into philanthropic giving would be comedy if it weren't so sad. USA Cycling? NICA?

That money could go way further elsewhere.

[uber]

While it is true that 18 months of use would impact on how far a company would reach for customer service, companies like Patagonia and Arcteryx have come to my rescue in the past but no more than Rapha has. The OP's recent experience seems like a change in Rapha's customer service. With less price reductions and a change in service, I could see why people would second guess a Rapha purchase. It might not be fair, but there is higher expectation at the higher price point.

[Irishgirl]

OP here. I was not attempting to return these bibs. Rapha has a "Repair Service" and I was hoping they could be repaired. That's all.


From the Rapha website on repairs

Rapha offers a free repair service on Rapha products, where a crash or accident has damaged your garment.

This service applies to garments which may be outside our 30 day return policy.

What Rapha doesn’t do is define the word “accident” and that can create a broader expectation for the consumer to have different expectation and level of service.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Climb01742]

Sustainability is a big part of Patagonia’s mission, so I’d guess that their ‘sure, we’ll repair it’ ethos is part sustainability and part CS and part just standing behind what they make. They really take the long view of what a relationship with a customer means and is worth.

[Tony]

Arctecyx is amazing.

Bought a jacket on sale. It was a three in one so wore the shell frequently. The gortex delaminated. I sent them pics and dropped off the jacket to a store. Had a new jacket in a week.

Now for above and beyond part.

Jacket was 5 years old.
Jacket was bought seriously on sale, thinking 70% off. So about $600.
Model no longer made so they offered me the current equivalent - which now retails for $2200.

They also will repair all of their gear.

Only limitation is a single replacement of item.

I also understand ll bean has a stricter return policy.

I'd suggest any company that warranties lycra would be in a hard spot due to level of care. Hard goods is likely easier.

If your product says GORE-TEX® on the label, you know it carries the
Guaranteed To Keep You Dry® promise, no matter who manufactured it or where you bought it.
Arctecyx builds to the Gore-Tex standard and Gore Tex absorbs the burden of replacement.

[Heisenberg]

The Rapha of today is not the Rapha pre-buyout. It is what it is.

And the foundations first foray into philanthropic giving would be comedy if it weren't so sad. USA Cycling? NICA?

That money could go way further elsewhere.

hey man, those poor poor kids in boulder need the XX1 eagle upgrades.

re: op, that's an awful cs response, even if it is out of warranty and there's now a strict "no" policy in place. no concessions, no attempt at making something right? really? i know they're cash-strapped but i didn't know they were THAT cash-strapped.

[54ny77]

Do people really buy clothing expecting to use a warranty, let alone a pair of bike shorts that get 2 years of use? I'm picturing David Spade at the customer service counter dealing with someone who walks in with a clumped up item, one that saw countless sweaty stanky days surrounding one's junk. NASTY! :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8vueNqp0bk

[Andy340]

Rapha CS may be dependent on representative and not policy - I reached out in the past 6months regarding a brevet jersey that had holes (could have been moth holes) to see if it was reparable at my cost. The CS rep replied that the damage was not repairable but sent a voucher valued approx 30% off a replacement. I was impressed as wasn’t expecting anything.

[dem]

Pearl Izumi:

Mailed 2 year old jersey in with receipt June 3rd (serging around pockets busted.. you could argue I overstuff my pockets, but never happened on another jersey)

Received new replacement June 14th - slightly different model/color, but I can't complain.

[stackie]

I'd ask again. Specifically for a repair, not replacement.

I have two pairs of cross bibs that I had for probably 5 years. They started coming apart at the seam in the crotch. I sent Rapha a picture and they took them back and repaired. Wasn't a tough repair. They just oversewed it with a circle of lycra, but have them back in action. This is good as they are really a go to pair of shorts for me.

I think you might have some success with asking for the repair option.

Like others have said you may have gotten a CSR on a bad day that thought you were pushing for new gear.

Jon

[makoti]

OP here. Let me be clear. I was not attempting to return these bibs. Rapha has a "Repair Service" and I was hoping they could be repaired. That's all. But they weren't interested.
These shorts have not seen heavy use. I have a ton of shorts in the rotation. I would guess certainly less than 50 wears each, more like worn less than 40 times. Washed cold in a laundry bag.

I think the point of this (could be wrong) is that the policy of Rapha for this stuff has changed. I've had their stuff fail after two seasons when, for $240, it shouldn't and they stepped up. I have raved about their service, because they deserved it. But I also recently had the stitching of a $300 set of Rapha winter tights, worn maybe 5 times, start to come out. Noticed when I went to use them at the start of season two. More than a year? Too bad, so sad.
Were they reasonable in not fixing or replacing them? Yes, and I moved on. Were they RIGHT in not doing something? I say no, but you guys decide. I'm sorry, but a premium price demands premium product quality/life. One season of light use isn't it.

[Monsieur Toast]

The reason why Patagonia can do it are for several reasons.

1) majority of their products don’t see extreme use.
2) great margins on their products “pataguccci”
3) streamlined the return/replacement policy



Having worked at Patagonia for a few years ...

4) The founder & owner, Yvon Chouinard, is an old-school, OG dirtbag that truly believes products should be fixed up & used indefinitely. Disposable capitalism drives him nuts and since it's a privately-owned company, everyone in upper management runs the company with that principle in mind.

Markup exists on ALL products sold by EVERY company. The reason Patagonia has such a liberal returns / repairs policy, even though it loses them an insane amount of money, is because the company literally believes in the importance of it. Thankfully Patagonia is not controlled by shareholders who want to maximize return on investment, which made it a great company to work for when I was there.

With regards to the repeated "Patagucci" digs, the company does its best to make a good product and can't control who purchases it – nor should they. If you were to apply that same philosophy to bikes then what percentage of posters in this forum are doing a disservice to the builder of their preferred bike ... or does that make all the bike manufacturers sellouts since all sorts of people ride their bikes? Hard to believe most folks here are competitively racing at a high level ... versus being outside, riding a bike, and enjoying life.

Back to the original post .... disappointing that Rapha wouldn't try to meet you halfway with a 50% promo code or something on some new bibs at least. Their situation gets complicated considering the sale of their business and everything though.

[72gmc]

Joosttx, I just wore my patagonia shorts to get donuts for my family after making my own pot of coffee. Hard working dad stuff. Re-examine your stereotypes.

OP, I agree with the advice to try again. There should be a route to repair.

[jadedaid]

I’m noticing my pro team II bib shorts have some issues, already after just half a season. The stitching looks to be coming undone, I will see how they respond to that.

Otherwise I can concur that Acteryx has amazing customer support. A friend of mine had the same gore tex delamination issue on his jacket which must have been 3 or 4 years old at the time. He sent his in for a repair and was sent a new current year jacket free of charge.

I’ve had an amazing experience with Haglöfs in the past. I tore a hole in a gore tex shell when I got it stuck in a wheelchair following a season ending injury. i wrote them to see if they could patch it up. Despite this clearly being damage caused by yours truly was sent a brand new jacket free of charge and shipping, all they asked is that I send the old one in.

The very high end outdoor brands seem to be very good with their CS. I’ve been loyal to Haglöfs following that incident.

[bcroslin]

I had a pair of pro team bibs turn brown from the Florida sun and I reached out to them not expecting a replacement but hoping I’d at least get a discount on a new pair of bibs. I got the same response. None of my other bibs have turned brown and therefore I no longer buy Rapha bibs. I used to be a bit of a Rapha fan boy but I feel like there’s so many other cycling clothing manufacturers that have not only caught up to Rapha but passed them. Also, Patagonia is the gold standard for clothing companies IMO. Not only do they stand behind their products but they also don’t compromise their beliefs to squeeze an extra dollar out of their customers.

[joosttx]

Having worked at Patagonia for a few years ...

4) The founder & owner, Yvon Chouinard, is an old-school, OG dirtbag that truly believes products should be fixed up & used indefinitely. Disposable capitalism drives him nuts and since it's a privately-owned company, everyone in upper management runs the company with that principle in mind.

Markup exists on ALL products sold by EVERY company. The reason Patagonia has such a liberal returns / repairs policy, even though it loses them an insane amount of money, is because the company literally believes in the importance of it. Thankfully Patagonia is not controlled by shareholders who want to maximize return on investment, which made it a great company to work for when I was there.

With regards to the repeated "Patagucci" digs, the company does its best to make a good product and can't control who purchases it – nor should they. If you were to apply that same philosophy to bikes then what percentage of posters in this forum are doing a disservice to the builder of their preferred bike ... or does that make all the bike manufacturers sellouts since all sorts of people ride their bikes? Hard to believe most folks here are competitively racing at a high level ... versus being outside, riding a bike, and enjoying life.

Back to the original post .... disappointing that Rapha wouldn't try to meet you halfway with a 50% promo code or something on some new bibs at least. Their situation gets complicated considering the sale of their business and everything though.

That’s what I find amazing about Patagonia’s branding. Folks here vehemently defending their high prices and status. I love Patagonia and own a lot of it. It is quality stuff but this is the forum that will argue the value of a Lynsky frame over a Mosaic or Potts frame. I find it truly amazing no one is digging at Patagonia for being over priced when there are more affordable alternatives like REI brands. I have to say Patagonia’s branding message is excellent.

[joosttx]

Joosttx, I just wore my patagonia shorts to get donuts for my family after making my own pot of coffee. Hard working dad stuff. Re-examine your stereotypes.

OP, I agree with the advice to try again. There should be a route to repair.

I wore my Patagonia jacket to get coffee and a breakfast burrito this morning. Not judging just trying to set the record straight :)

[93KgBike]

Walmart's 'philanthropic' activities are branding propaganda. The goal is to gain the defensive advantage, by generating counterpoints in charitable giving or socially responsive spending, that deflect from the business decisions not beneficial to our communities or nation necessary to generate half a trillion dollars in profit year-over-year.

Can all of Walmart's philanthropic efforts make up for what many see as its deeply negative impact on local economies and on society writ large? Are these efforts authentic or merely an elaborate form of PR? And is Walmart doing enough for a company with yearly revenues exceeding $480 billion?

[joosttx]

Walmart's 'philanthropic' activities are branding propaganda. The goal is to gain the defensive advantage, by generating counterpoints in charitable giving or socially responsive spending, that deflect from the business decisions not beneficial to our communities or nation necessary to generate half a billion dollars in profit year-over-year.

Can all of Walmart's philanthropic efforts make up for what many see as its deeply negative impact on local economies and on society writ large? Are these efforts authentic or merely an elaborate form of PR? And is Walmart doing enough for a company with yearly revenues exceeding $480 billion?

Walmart doesn’t own Rapha.

[rallizes]

Walmart's 'philanthropic' activities are branding propaganda. The goal is to gain the defensive advantage, by generating counterpoints in charitable giving or socially responsive spending, that deflect from the business decisions not beneficial to our communities or nation necessary to generate half a billion dollars in profit year-over-year.

Can all of Walmart's philanthropic efforts make up for what many see as its deeply negative impact on local economies and on society writ large? Are these efforts authentic or merely an elaborate form of PR? And is Walmart doing enough for a company with yearly revenues exceeding $480 billion?

Doing enough?

What does that mean?

Walmart is how capitalism works

[Mikej]

Ok, it’s just me but $2200 jackets and $416 bibs are really getting up there, wow!

[93KgBike]

Walmart doesn’t own Rapha.

Well, Walmart doesn't not own Rapha, either.

[93KgBike]

Doing enough?

What does that mean?

Walmart is how capitalism works

When father's ask themselves, "am I doing enough?", there's no expectation of a conclusory answer. We are just checking to see if our actions and our expectations correlate.

If the public, or Walmart itself, asks the question,"is Walmart doing enough?", unless you include self-annihilation as a goal of capitalism it should be taken in a similar vain.

Happy Father's Day

[FlashUNC]

Walmart doesn’t own Rapha.

WalMart doesn't. But the cycling specific holding company that invests and buys cycling brands and is owned by the grandson heirs of Sam Walton and learned just about everything they did about business from the family business sure do.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2017/08/07/sky-news-walmart-heirs-close-buying-rapha#.XQalc2QpDxM

If there's anyone who would buy brands to them ruthlessly cost cut in service of profitability, it'd be a Walton.

[Heisenberg]

WalMart doesn't. But the cycling specific holding company that invests and buys cycling brands and is owned by the grandson heirs of Sam Walton and learned just about everything they did about business from the family business sure do.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2017/08/07/sky-news-walmart-heirs-close-buying-rapha#.XQalc2QpDxM

If there's anyone who would buy brands to them ruthlessly cost cut in service of profitability, it'd be a Walton.

there's a bit more to this than meets the eye, but this is more or less correct.

rapha is dead. long live rapha. they've gone from a buoyed longer-term vision to quarter-to-quarter life or death. c'est la vie.

[NHAero]

Merci Monsieur Toast!
I've backpacked around the US and on several continents using mostly Patagonia stuff, which holds up really well. I've been surprised when they have been shown stuff like worn out zippers on heavily used gear that is still quite serviceable that they will repair the zipper. My rainshell had some coating delamination and they replaced it.
Maybe they've brainwashed us, or maybe they are one of very few companies successful in the capitalist economy whose values help lead us to a better world.
I don't have experience with Arcteryx's warranty policy because the one item I have, a large daypack I carried throughout the years I winter hiked the White Mountains, as well as used for lightweight 2-3 day backpack trips, still looks almost new. Expensive stuff that seems to be good for a lifetime of use!


Having worked at Patagonia for a few years ...

4) The founder & owner, Yvon Chouinard, is an old-school, OG dirtbag that truly believes products should be fixed up & used indefinitely. Disposable capitalism drives him nuts and since it's a privately-owned company, everyone in upper management runs the company with that principle in mind.

Markup exists on ALL products sold by EVERY company. The reason Patagonia has such a liberal returns / repairs policy, even though it loses them an insane amount of money, is because the company literally believes in the importance of it. Thankfully Patagonia is not controlled by shareholders who want to maximize return on investment, which made it a great company to work for when I was there.

With regards to the repeated "Patagucci" digs, the company does its best to make a good product and can't control who purchases it – nor should they. If you were to apply that same philosophy to bikes then what percentage of posters in this forum are doing a disservice to the builder of their preferred bike ... or does that make all the bike manufacturers sellouts since all sorts of people ride their bikes? Hard to believe most folks here are competitively racing at a high level ... versus being outside, riding a bike, and enjoying life.

Back to the original post .... disappointing that Rapha wouldn't try to meet you halfway with a 50% promo code or something on some new bibs at least. Their situation gets complicated considering the sale of their business and everything though.

[fignon's barber]

I had a pair of pro team bibs turn brown from the Florida sun and I reached out to them not expecting a replacement but hoping I’d at least get a discount on a new pair of bibs. I got the same response. None of my other bibs have turned brown and therefore I no longer buy Rapha bibs. I used to be a bit of a Rapha fan boy but I feel like there’s so many other cycling clothing manufacturers that have not only caught up to Rapha but passed them. Also, Patagonia is the gold standard for clothing companies IMO. Not only do they stand behind their products but they also don’t compromise their beliefs to squeeze an extra dollar out of their customers.

Ok, here's a similar cust service comparison with Assos. Last year, I noticed an Assos jersey I had, an ss.uno S7 in aqua blue, was really faded on the back from the Florida sun ( same sun, since we actually live fairly close). It was probably 3 years old, but thought I'd send pics in to Assos because I know they develop their own materials and it would be good info for improving their products. I didn't ask for replacement or discount, and I got my monies worth from the jersey. Surprisingly, they sent me an email to select any jersey from their current lineup free of charge and apologized the jersey faded. On top of that, when the new jersey arrived, they also included a set of their awesome Assos coffee mugs ( the ones that go for like $25 a pop). Now that is service.

[MattTuck]

Not sure how much more I can add to this thread.

For the OP, Thom - I can see the frustration. This sounds like either a poorly designed, or poorly constructed chamois. While other things can wear out (for instance the inner thighs from the wear of the saddle), the chamois should be the most resilient part of shorts. I can see the point that some are making that 18 months is a full lifetime for such a garment, and I'd agree if this were an issue of wear and tear. But this appears to be a material/design failure, and I'd expect Rapha to (at the least) give you some credit toward a future purchase. I know you're a light guy, so it isn't like you're wearing the chamois out through compression.

Given that we now have other good options, I don't think Rapha deserves your loyalty. Q36.5, Velocio and a few others that are definitely in the same price/benefit ballpark as Rapha.

On the topic of other brands that send out "free" replacements... 2 things. 1) the actual cost that the company eats is considerably lower than the retail price for an item and 2) Even if it is lower than retail, they are not really free -- they are part of the cost that you and other customers pay for those items.