Argh! Ghost shifting is driving me crazy!

[texbike]

Ghost shifting. Who am I gonna call? Paceliners!

Alright, here's the situation - I just went through my Vamoots (with Dura Ace 7800) and added new cables/housing, chain, and cassette. Prior to doing the rebuild, the rear shifting was starting to get a bit sloppier - hence the desire to go through it and show it some love. Now the bike is randomly ghost shifting across the cassette when riding along at a constant tempo without applying significant torque to the pedals. I haven't been able to tune it out. :(

A few quick notes:

-New KMC 10 speed chain (with KMC quick link installed).
-New 7800 cassette.
-New cables/housing.
-Derailleur was thoroughly cleaned including jockey wheels.
-Limit screws properly set and derailleur adjusted in relation to the the cassette cogs.
-Barrel adjusters set to zero (all the way in) on both frame and derailleur.
-Chain was shifted to smallest cog and the slack taken out of the cable.
-Multiple adjustments made on the barrel adjusters - it shifts fine except for the ghost shifting
-Nothing has happened to the bike that would cause a bent derailleur hanger or derailleur.
-There doesn't appear to be a sticky link in the chain.
-I shortened the chain a link to see if too much chain could be the issue - no change.
-I tried a different cassette and also a different rear wheel - no difference.

So, I'm at a loss. Before I throw in the towel and take it to a LBS, I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions.

A couple of additional possibilities that I'm thinking:

-I installed the KMC chain the wrong way? Chains aren't unidirectional, are they?
-The jockey wheels are worn and could be causing the issue (the derailleur does have >20K miles on it)?
-The shifter itself is bad? It shifts fine outside of the ghost shifting, but it does have >20K miles on it.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Worst case scenario, I do have a 7800 shifter and rear derailleur that are known to be good that could be tested on the bike to see if they're the issue.

Thanks!

Texbike

[mktng]

FHB bearings? edit: never mind. you tried two wheels

[parris]

Check the cable housings for any burr's that may be on the ends. Check that the ferrule's are fully seated on both the cable and in the adjusters. Check the bb cable guide for binding and/or movement. flush and relube the shift levers. Make sure the cassette didn't come loose on the freehub. If the 10 speed cassette is on an 11 speed wheel make sure the spacer's in place behind the cassette. Hope this helps.

[dave thompson]

Rear derailleur hanger tweaked a tad?

[David Kirk]

You say it "shifts across the cassette randomly" - are you saying it will shift more than one cog up or down from where you left it?

dave

[John H.]

7800 was a great group, but when it gets old it gets sloppy.

How many miles on shifters and/or rear derailleur? Is the rear derailleur sloppy when you wiggle it side to side?
Derailleur hanger straight?
Cable housing loops long enough? As they exit shifters and also the loop at the rear derailleur?
What kind of frame? Internal or external routing for cables?

[texbike]

FHB bearings? edit: never mind. you tried two wheels

Thx for the suggestion!

Rear derailleur hanger tweaked a tad?

I haven't checked it, but nothing has happened to the bike would cause an issue there that I'm aware of. However, it is something that will probably need to be checked if other attempts don't resolve the issue.

Check the cable housings for any burr's that may be on the ends. Check that the ferrule's are fully seated on both the cable and in the adjusters. Check the bb cable guide for binding and/or movement. flush and relube the shift levers. Make sure the cassette didn't come loose on the freehub. If the 10 speed cassette is on an 11 speed wheel make sure the spacer's in place behind the cassette. Hope this helps.

Thanks! Most of these have been addressed, but the ferrules, housing burs (I paid close attention to those, but maybe not good enough?), and cable guide haven't. I'll check those.

You say it "shifts across the cassette randomly" - are you saying it will shift more than one cog up or down from where you left it?

dave

Hi Dave. The chain rides up on the cog that it is on and causes clicking and popping as it stays in that gear. It sounds like it's out of adjustment, but I haven't been able to tune it out with the limit screws or tightening of the barrel adjusters. When I mentioned "across" the cassette (poor wording) earlier, I meant that it was exhibiting the same behavior across a range of different gears/cogs. It seemed to be most prevalent across the the mid/lower portion of the cassette.

Thanks!

[texbike]

7800 was a great group, but when it gets old it gets sloppy.

How many miles on shifters and/or rear derailleur? Is the rear derailleur sloppy when you wiggle it side to side?
Derailleur hanger straight?
Cable housing loops long enough? As they exit shifters and also the loop at the rear derailleur?
What kind of frame? Internal or external routing for cables?

The group has at LEAST 20K miles on it. Probably more like 25-30K. The cable length isn't out of the ordinary. I essentially replicated what was on the bike previously which worked fine for most of the 10 years since I first built it up.

[hokoman]

I will take a stab at it, I think it's a stiff link in your chain.

[cinco]

You didn't mention which bike. If der hanger isn't bent, is it possible that the hanger bolt(s) are loose?
Also, could your new cable have slipped from the tension bolt?

Andy in Houston

[ScottW]

The couple of times I've had ghost shifting on the RD, it was solved by increasing cable tension. This is particularly likely if cables have been recently replaced... after being in tension on the bike they can stretch a small amount compared to when they were brand new. Shimano manuals are usually detailed enough here but IIRC after setting high and low limit positions, you shift it to the smallest cog (actuate the shifter a few extra times to make sure the cable is fully released), then shift up the cassette to a middle gear (5th or 6th) and adjust cable tension such that the jockey wheels are dead nuts centered under the relevant sprocket. From there you may even need to back out the barrel adjuster (increase tension) slightly to keep it from ghosting in real riding conditions.


The chain rides up on the cog that it is on and causes clicking and popping as it stays in that gear.
I'm interpreting this to mean you've got enough tension to shift the chain up to the next larger cog, but it's then not being held tensely enough to keep the chain dead centered on the cog, IOW the chain falls slightly back down the cassette.
Still guessing cable tension and/or possibly some slop in the shifter mechanism. I have not accumulated enough miles on a groupset to personally experience the latter.

[Dude]

are the der cable heads seated properly in the shifter?
Is the rest der cable routed correctly through the shifter?
pop off ferrules and make sure the der housing strands are all even.
reassembled der/jockey wheels incorrectly?
That's not how you set up a rear derailleur.
- rear der barrel adjusters should be about 2/3 of the way screwed in. thread frame barrel adjusters the same amount in so you can use them while riding.
- with no cable tension on rear der, set limit screws. High limit screw unscrew until you hear noise/jumping. screw in until no noise/jumping. - use your hand to push the der to low limit screw repeat limit screw thing.
- install cable. 1 click is one shift yada yada. don't "take slack out of cable" we're talking empirical feedback here, not based on feel.
- once limit screws and cable is set, pull with some pretty good force on teh cables to seat all the housing/ferrules etc.
- readjust cable tension as necessary.

Also, have you tried other *new* cassettes?
Is the b-screw too far in/out?
or you could take it to a shop and have another set of eyes on it.

[Black Dog]

Try a different chain from a different brand.

[muz]

My money is on the jockey wheels being swapped after disassembly.

[texbike]

I will take a stab at it, I think it's a stiff link in your chain.

That could be. I did look for that, but didn't find one that appeared to be overly stiff. However, while trying out a different wheel I stupidly contaminated my new chain with grit from the cassette on the other wheel. :( I'll need to remove the chain and flush it as a result and will check for a stiff link at that point.

You didn't mention which bike. If der hanger isn't bent, is it possible that the hanger bolt(s) are loose?
Also, could your new cable have slipped from the tension bolt?

Andy in Houston

The bike is a Moots Vamoots from the early 2000s. It doesn't have a removable hanger. The cable is firmly anchored- checked and adjusted a couple of times.

The couple of times I've had ghost shifting on the RD, it was solved by increasing cable tension. This is particularly likely if cables have been recently replaced... after being in tension on the bike they can stretch a small amount compared to when they were brand new. Shimano manuals are usually detailed enough here but IIRC after setting high and low limit positions, you shift it to the smallest cog (actuate the shifter a few extra times to make sure the cable is fully released), then shift up the cassette to a middle gear (5th or 6th) and adjust cable tension such that the jockey wheels are dead nuts centered under the relevant sprocket. From there you may even need to back out the barrel adjuster (increase tension) slightly to keep it from ghosting in real riding conditions.


I'm interpreting this to mean you've got enough tension to shift the chain up to the next larger cog, but it's then not being held tensely enough to keep the chain dead centered on the cog, IOW the chain falls slightly back down the cassette.
Still guessing cable tension and/or possibly some slop in the shifter mechanism. I have not accumulated enough miles on a groupset to personally experience the latter.

Great. Thanks! Maybe I need to play with this a bit more.

Try a different chain from a different brand.

A defective chain did cross my mind. KMC 10v chains tend to be well thought of, but I have both SRAM and Shimano 10v chains that could be tested.

My money is on the jockey wheels being swapped after disassembly.

I did give the derailleur a thorough cleaning, but didn't disassemble the cage, so the jockey wheels are in the same place that they were originally.

are the der cable heads seated properly in the shifter?
Is the rest der cable routed correctly through the shifter?
pop off ferrules and make sure the der housing strands are all even.
reassembled der/jockey wheels incorrectly?
That's not how you set up a rear derailleur.
- rear der barrel adjusters should be about 2/3 of the way screwed in. thread frame barrel adjusters the same amount in so you can use them while riding.
- with no cable tension on rear der, set limit screws. High limit screw unscrew until you hear noise/jumping. screw in until no noise/jumping. - use your hand to push the der to low limit screw repeat limit screw thing.
- install cable. 1 click is one shift yada yada. don't "take slack out of cable" we're talking empirical feedback here, not based on feel.
- once limit screws and cable is set, pull with some pretty good force on teh cables to seat all the housing/ferrules etc.
- readjust cable tension as necessary.

Also, have you tried other *new* cassettes?
Is the b-screw too far in/out?
or you could take it to a shop and have another set of eyes on it.

This is all great info! Thank you for the guidance. I'll check these items and retry the setup as suggested. I've tried a 2nd new cassette AND a 3rd low-mileage cassette. The issue persisted across all 3 cassettes and 2 rear wheels tested. The B screw hasn't been adjusted, but it hasn't changed position from its previous setting that worked fine.

Thanks!

Texbike

[Big Dan]

Sometimes is good to check the limit screws also.
Put it on the smallest cog and release the cable, check if it stays there or jumps.

[jamesau]

Go to shimano site and print out the service instructions:
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Series?name=DURA-ACE&generation=7800&type=ROAD

Verify derailleur and hanger fixing bolts torqued adequately

Double check that the shift cable/fixing bolt/plate washer are all properly oriented and are not impeding derailleur range of motion.

Verify cable moves smoothly through all housing/bends including bottom bracket guide (do this by hand after loosening fixing bolt).

I prefer to set my derailleur limit stops without a chain on.

Try a different wheel

Verify proper installation of cassette with all spacers.

Use a Park DAG tool to verify hanger alignment

Stick with it and good luck.

[azrider]

Hmmmm.........if it were me, and I had done all of that I'd be checking the alignment of the hanger as others have mentioned :confused::confused:

[eddief]

are the der cable heads seated properly in the shifter?

and i know this sounds dumb but someone i ride with (i swear not me) rode his bike a real long way with the chain not threaded through the rear derailleur correctly. he missed that little thingy right above the bottom pulley.

[weisan]

Worst case scenario, I do have a 7800 shifter and rear derailleur that are known to be good that could be tested on the bike to see if they're the issue.



That's not a "worst case scenario" at all, sometimes that's exactly what it takes to regain your sanity!

I went through this scenario a few weeks ago, finally threw in the towel, took a set of shifters and deraileur AND chain AND cassette combo that I know is working perfectly on another bike (that I don't ride that often), transferred them over and voila! everything works as they should. I refused to spend another second trying to figure out why, life's too short, instead took the bike out immediately and rode like a madman!

[skouri1]

the only time i have had ghost shifting on that generation (ultegra 6600) is when a cable was shredding in the shifter, then it would get hung up and shift later... last time you changed the cables?

[palincss]

-I installed the KMC chain the wrong way? Chains aren't unidirectional, are they?


Shimano Ultegra 10 speed chains definitely are unidirectional. I don't know about KMC.

[Matthew]

He changed the cables. And housing.

[josephr]

probably a combination of a weak RD spring and a weak shifter spring so neither can balance each other out and that's why you can't pinpoint the issue. I'd rebuild both, especially with that sort of mileage. Of course, I've been known to be wrong. :rolleyes:

[OtayBW]

Hi Dave. The chain rides up on the cog that it is on and causes clicking and popping as it stays in that gear. It sounds like it's out of adjustment, but I haven't been able to tune it out with the limit screws or tightening of the barrel adjusters.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the chain is riding up on a bigger cog (lower gear), then you'd want to loosen the barrel adjuster, no?

[oldpotatoe]

My money is on the jockey wheels being swapped after disassembly.

That's my guess also...since everything else is new.

[oldpotatoe]

probably a combination of a weak RD spring and a weak shifter spring so neither can balance each other out and that's why you can't pinpoint the issue. I'd rebuild both, especially with that sort of mileage. Of course, I've been known to be wrong. :rolleyes:

?? shimano..no rebuild, no new small parts..he's frustrated enough..:eek:

[charliedid]

Try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MniiwTLvo1c

[charliedid]

All joking aside: Assuming the cable is running free (as mentioned) I'd replace the jockey wheels and do not assume B-screw adj. is "fine" just because it was fine before.

[texbike]

Try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MniiwTLvo1c

Haha! That sounds like exactly what's needed! :rolleyes:

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone. We have company in town this weekend, so no time to mess with it until early next week. I'm going to work through the suggestions on here one at a time in an attempt to ID exactly what the issue was/is and will report back. Stay tuned...

Texbike

[93KgBike]

My 7800 is old, but not sloppy.

Try, barrel adj. full-right-back-1/8 before cable attachment. Then, fully downshift and, using your thumb, press the derailleur out until the lower jockey wheel is in line with the second cog and take-up the cable slack and tighten. When you release, the derailleur should be properly setup over the 11t. Barrel adjust the gears for noise at 2, and may 12 or so?

And check the b-screw setting, larger gears may change the position.

GL

[giordana93]

not sure about your cable routing but make sure (if you have one) that the guide under the bottom bracket isn't loose. and make sure there are no kinks obviously (you prolly did but worth mentioning). couldn't hurt to make sure the last loop into the derailleur gets a drop of tri-flow or similar. sure sounds like the cable is hanging up somewhere or there's a "loose connection" like that guide pivoting or a ferrule not sitting squarely

edit: if all else fails, you might have to unwrap bar tape and make sure the housing is nice and tight going into the shifter, after duly releasing any tape (electrical or other) holding the housing in place under the bar tape

[Matthew]

Perplexing for sure. My 7800 group has over 22k miles and works beautifully. Don't have any suggestions other than what's already been covered. Hopefully you get it fixed. Would be maddening.

[Moorecw]

Does it ghost shift all throughout the cassette or only at certain points on the cassette? Does it happens at one end of the cassette and tunes at the other end. I have seen this happen when the hanger is out of alignment.

[TexasJohn]

Try a different shifter or rebuild / service it. Shifting is one of the five parts, and often gets worn late in life.

[oldpotatoe]

Try a different shifter or rebuild / service it. Shifting is one of the five parts, and often gets worn late in life.

Hmm, .no small parts and even if there were, these things machine assembled with all sorts of hidden/blind springs and clips..But give it a try....:eek:

[Big Dan]

Same Campagnolo drivel. How does that help?
Keep bringing the same crap to diminish others.
Difficult to take this guy serious.
I'm sure the 7800 RD works fine and the problem is just in the cable or housing.

[oldpotatoe]

Same Campagnolo drivel. How does that help?
Keep bringing the same crap to diminish others.
Difficult to take this guy serious.
I'm sure the 7800 RD works fine and the problem is just in the cable or housing.

yawn...:)
same guy gotta slam the Campag fan boy..diffucult to take this guy serious..BUT get to 'diminsh' this guy..like, so what.

It's toys Big, don't take me serious....'kay?

You DO know how to block somebody, yes? If you don't, I can show ya...:no:

[palincss]

I'm sorry, but this should not turn into a Shimano vs Campagnolo pissing contest.

The OP has an X setup, it used to work and now it doesn't. It should be possible to fix it so that it works correctly, the way virtually all such systems work; and that's the information he's after, not whether some other brand is better for whatever obscure or theoretical reason that has nothing whatsoever to do with his current situation.

[TexasJohn]

Hmm, .no small parts and even if there were, these things machine assembled with all sorts of hidden/blind springs and clips..But give it a try....:eek:

You are the Jedi bike master, but seems the only thing he has not swapped out is the shifter itself. Worth a try for sure.

[jc031699]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the chain is riding up on a bigger cog (lower gear), then you'd want to loosen the barrel adjuster, no?



Agree with this
If the chain is riding up on the cog that it’s on already, the cable is too tight. If you have the cable adjusters all at “zero” it implies that you can’t decrease cable tension. Is that true? ... being adjusted on the stand is not the same as being adjusted under load and at 90-100 rpm cadence, maybe just needs a click or two looser on the cable adjuster while riding to get just right.

Also, are you sure you are clamping the cable in the right place on the RD cable fixing bolt? Sometimes the little clamp plate rotates around into the wrong position when you have it all apart. This can have a subtle effect on the shift ratio.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bitpuddle]

As mentioned, I’d try a Shimano chain, if possible.

If you rewrapped the bars, make sure there isn’t a funny bend of the housing under the tape causing some binding with the cable. That can mimic tension issues. If you unwrap the bars to the shifters and the issue goes away, something is binding.

If you took off/replaced the cassette, make sure all the spacers are in the right place and that none of the cogs have any play. Remove and reseat if there is any doubt.

[oldpotatoe]

As mentioned, I’d try a Shimano chain, if possible.

If you rewrapped the bars, make sure there isn’t a funny bend of the housing under the tape causing some binding with the cable. That can mimic tension issues. If you unwrap the bars to the shifters and the issue goes away, something is binding.

If you took off/replaced the cassette, make sure all the spacers are in the right place and that none of the cogs have any play. Remove and reseat if there is any doubt.

While very true for 7900, 7800(OPs stuff) is exposed der housing...Last point a good one, make sure the 1mm spacer is onto the FHB first for shimano 10s cogsets..and the additional 1.85 one if on a 11s freehub body..

[texbike]

are the der cable heads seated properly in the shifter?
Is the rest der cable routed correctly through the shifter?
pop off ferrules and make sure the der housing strands are all even.
reassembled der/jockey wheels incorrectly?
That's not how you set up a rear derailleur.
- rear der barrel adjusters should be about 2/3 of the way screwed in. thread frame barrel adjusters the same amount in so you can use them while riding.
- with no cable tension on rear der, set limit screws. High limit screw unscrew until you hear noise/jumping. screw in until no noise/jumping. - use your hand to push the der to low limit screw repeat limit screw thing.
- install cable. 1 click is one shift yada yada. don't "take slack out of cable" we're talking empirical feedback here, not based on feel.
- once limit screws and cable is set, pull with some pretty good force on teh cables to seat all the housing/ferrules etc.
- readjust cable tension as necessary.

Also, have you tried other *new* cassettes?
Is the b-screw too far in/out?
or you could take it to a shop and have another set of eyes on it.


Sometimes is good to check the limit screws also.
Put it on the smallest cog and release the cable, check if it stays there or jumps.

Go to shimano site and print out the service instructions:
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Series?name=DURA-ACE&generation=7800&type=ROAD

Verify derailleur and hanger fixing bolts torqued adequately

Double check that the shift cable/fixing bolt/plate washer are all properly oriented and are not impeding derailleur range of motion.

Verify cable moves smoothly through all housing/bends including bottom bracket guide (do this by hand after loosening fixing bolt).

I prefer to set my derailleur limit stops without a chain on.

Try a different wheel

Verify proper installation of cassette with all spacers.

Use a Park DAG tool to verify hanger alignment

Stick with it and good luck.

Hmmmm.........if it were me, and I had done all of that I'd be checking the alignment of the hanger as others have mentioned :confused::confused:

are the der cable heads seated properly in the shifter?

and i know this sounds dumb but someone i ride with (i swear not me) rode his bike a real long way with the chain not threaded through the rear derailleur correctly. he missed that little thingy right above the bottom pulley.

That's not a "worst case scenario" at all, sometimes that's exactly what it takes to regain your sanity!

I went through this scenario a few weeks ago, finally threw in the towel, took a set of shifters and deraileur AND chain AND cassette combo that I know is working perfectly on another bike (that I don't ride that often), transferred them over and voila! everything works as they should. I refused to spend another second trying to figure out why, life's too short, instead took the bike out immediately and rode like a madman!

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the chain is riding up on a bigger cog (lower gear), then you'd want to loosen the barrel adjuster, no?

My 7800 is old, but not sloppy.

Try, barrel adj. full-right-back-1/8 before cable attachment. Then, fully downshift and, using your thumb, press the derailleur out until the lower jockey wheel is in line with the second cog and take-up the cable slack and tighten. When you release, the derailleur should be properly setup over the 11t. Barrel adjust the gears for noise at 2, and may 12 or so?

And check the b-screw setting, larger gears may change the position.

GL

not sure about your cable routing but make sure (if you have one) that the guide under the bottom bracket isn't loose. and make sure there are no kinks obviously (you prolly did but worth mentioning). couldn't hurt to make sure the last loop into the derailleur gets a drop of tri-flow or similar. sure sounds like the cable is hanging up somewhere or there's a "loose connection" like that guide pivoting or a ferrule not sitting squarely


Agree with this
If the chain is riding up on the cog that it’s on already, the cable is too tight. If you have the cable adjusters all at “zero” it implies that you can’t decrease cable tension. Is that true? ... being adjusted on the stand is not the same as being adjusted under load and at 90-100 rpm cadence, maybe just needs a click or two looser on the cable adjuster while riding to get just right.

Also, are you sure you are clamping the cable in the right place on the RD cable fixing bolt? Sometimes the little clamp plate rotates around into the wrong position when you have it all apart. This can have a subtle effect on the shift ratio.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html



As mentioned, I’d try a Shimano chain, if possible.

If you took off/replaced the cassette, make sure all the spacers are in the right place and that none of the cogs have any play. Remove and reseat if there is any doubt.

OK, an update for the team -the "Argh" continues! :(

Thank you for all of the suggestions. I've gone through each of these to see if they would address the issue. Unfortunately, it still persists. Here's what I've done so far (*reminder - this is following a complete set of new cables, housing, chain, and cassette):

-Swapped out the cassette for ANOTHER new cassette.
-Swapped out the rear wheel with another (unfortunately, the rear cassette was dirty and contaminated my chain with grit - had to clean it, my chainrings, and jockey wheels as a result).
-Checked all cable housing ends - all good.
-Checked the BB cable guide - all good.
-Turned the chain around the other way - although the KMC chain isn't unidirectional.
-Took a link out of the chain.
-Checked the chain multiple times for sticky links.
-Rechecked and adjusted all limit screws as suggested above.
-Turned barrel adjusters on frame and derailleur all the way in and then backed them out about a 1/3rd the way.
-Checked B Screw and adjusted it across the range to test.
-Checked for kinks in shift cable and that it moves smoothly in the housing.
-Adjusted the barrel adjusters across their range to test.
-Replaced the shifter itself with a known working unit.
-Replaced the rear derailleur with a known working unit.

After all of this, the EXACT same problem persists in the exact same manner. The bike shifts well as it did previously. However, the chain pops and jumps randomly when sitting on a rear cog (the 4th, 5th, 6th) when just pedaling along. And it doesn't happen at a consistent spot on the chain while the pedals are being turned.

So... the only two things that I haven't tried are the following suggestions:


Try a different chain from a different brand.

Hmmmm.........if it were me, and I had done all of that I'd be checking the alignment of the hanger as others have mentioned :confused::confused:

I'm going to try a new Shimano chain tomorrow. The KMCs are known to be great chains, but perhaps this particular one has an issue.

I haven't checked the derailleur hanger for alignment, but will order a tool to do so once I test the chain.

Could ferrule size compared to the shift cable have an effect? I used metal ferrules instead of plastic and they're just a tiny bit larger than the housing diameter and fit loosely as a result. Could that do anything?

Thanks again for all of the suggestions so far. Although there's a more-than-capable bike shop less than a 1/2 mile from my house, I'd prefer to figure this out. ;)

Thanks!

Texbike

[Ken Robb]

It MUST be operator error! :)

[jc031699]

Derailleur hanger
Sure you didn’t reverse the jockey wheel positions?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[texbike]

It MUST be operator error! :)

Ken, it probably is! ;)

Derailleur hanger
Sure you didn’t reverse the jockey wheel positions?


Defintely didn't reverse the jockey wheels on either derailleur that was tried, but thanks for the suggestion. Derailleur hanger will be checked soon.

Thanks!

[weisan]

Tex pal, I got a hangar alignment tool you can borrow if you need one.

[jamesau]

Derailleur hanger will be checked soon.


Assuming it's replaceable, just buy a new hanger from Moots or Paragon Machine Works. (Not a bad thing to have a spare anyway...)

[NHAero]

Of the many things to check folks have generously suggested - which might cause the problem to be highly occasional? I have this problem on my Litespeed which has identical drivetrain to my Anderson except for an XT 11-40 cassette and a Wolftooth DM on the R8000 RD (RS685 hydro shifters, KMC 11 speed chain). The Litespeed has inline adjusters instead of barrel adjusters, I wonder if they lose their setting somehow and loosen the cable, but I've had the ghost shifting start up after a couple of almost no speed falls, both to the non-drive side, so no bending of the hanger.

[texbike]

Assuming it's replaceable, just buy a new hanger from Moots or Paragon Machine Works. (Not a bad thing to have a spare anyway...)

Hi James. This Moots is older and the hanger is non-replaceable. Great suggestion, though. Thank you.

Tex pal, I got a hangar alignment tool you can borrow if you need one.

Wei, that's a great offer. Thank you! The hanger alignment will be next after trying a different (new Shimano) chain. I'm committed to identifying the specific issue so am making changes one at a time.

Texbike

[oldpotatoe]

Since ya have changed the entire drivetrain and shifter..kinda gotta be the frame...BUT hopefully, in changing so much, you haven't failed to identify the one thing that may be causing all this....As for a ti der hanger..it can be straightened if bent..

[texbike]

Since ya have changed the entire drivetrain and shifter..kinda gotta be the frame...BUT hopefully, in changing so much, you haven't failed to identify the one thing that may be causing all this....As for a ti der hanger..it can be straightened if bent..

Thanks OP. Just to clarify, are you saying that a Ti hanger CAN or can't be straightened? Just want to make sure before I start messing with it.

Also, could loose housing ferrules have an effect?

Thanks,

Texbike

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks OP. Just to clarify, are you saying that a Ti hanger CAN or can't be straightened? Just want to make sure before I start messing with it.

Also, could loose housing ferrules have an effect?

Thanks,

Texbike

Yes it can, just need to put some ooommph into it..done it many times..

[texbike]

Yes it can, just need to put some ooommph into it..done it many times..

Great. Thanks for the clarification!

[kppolich]

Did you try the other shifter and RD yet?

[texbike]

Hmmm. I realized that I hadn't updated this thread.

I swapped out the new KMC 10v chain with a new Shimano Ultegra chain and the issue immediately went away without any additional adjustments. The bike has been riding along perfectly since then. I'm not sure what the issue with the chain was, but I wasn't able to find a sticky link on it. Perhaps the sticky lube that is on the new chains caused the issue? No telling... However, I do have another identical, new KMC chain that I'm going to swap out just to see if the issue reappears.

So.... a BIG thank you to everyone for your suggestions. I really appreciate your troubleshooting advice and guidance.

Cheers,

Texbike

[NHAero]

I haven't solved the periodic ghost shifting I reported on my Litespeed, but I have a new data point. In anticipation of D2R2, I moved the 11-40 cassette and the Wolftooth DM that enables the R8000 Ultegra derailleur to shift that cassette onto my Anderson. Same RS685 shifters and 11s KMC chain on both bikes. No ghost shifting on the Anderson.

I can get ghost shifting very occasionally on my Big Dummy and a re-setting of the cable tension on the stand solves it for months going forward. The one thing the Big Dummy and the Litespeed have in common is that they both have in-line cable tension adjusters. They're aluminum body, I think they may be YPK. Could the in-line adjusters be the issue? My other bikes have frame mounted adjusters.