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View Full Version : Ultegra CS-R800 11 Speed Cassette - Runs Rough


charliedid
06-12-2019, 04:42 PM
11-34 Ultegra CS-R800 11 Speed Cassette

Ultegra chain and drivetrain. All new-ish. 11 spd freehub and using supplied spacer.

Anyone else have this issue? Noisy in general and rough feeling. Also found another issue doing research where the third largest cog(27) will make a click every revolution. This seems widely referenced on the web. I had not noticed but a quick check reveals this as well.

Anyone with this issue find a solution? It shifts just fine and is not really noticeable except when cleaning chain etc. But now I know...

Different chain? Different cassette? Just shut up and ride?

eddief
06-12-2019, 05:00 PM
It rides fine on the road with no issues but you hear something when cleaning? Is the bike upside down when you clean the chain?

charliedid
06-12-2019, 05:03 PM
It rides fine on the road with no issues but you hear something when cleaning? Is the bike upside down when you clean the chain?

Hi Eddie

No bike is in a stand when cleaning.

Thanks

eddief
06-12-2019, 05:10 PM
curious.
Hi Eddie

No bike is in a stand when cleaning.

Thanks

charliedid
06-12-2019, 05:14 PM
curious.

This is where I found the 27 tooth skip issue

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shimano-ultegra-cs-hg800-cassette#review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHHSqxqM49k&feature=youtu.be

eddief
06-12-2019, 05:24 PM
that video did not show the person adjusting anything while turning the cranks. seems like a chain line or cable tension adjust issue...or a defect :).

charliedid
06-12-2019, 05:34 PM
that video did not show the person adjusting anything while turning the cranks. seems like a chain line or cable tension adjust issue...or a defect :).

That guy was er something...

Yeah I'm convinced it's some manufacturing issue.

What I want to know is do I need a new chain or a new cassette?

John H.
06-12-2019, 05:40 PM
I would try a new chain- But I did have an 8000 cassette that had a bad cog. Mine was 3rd one down from the 34, so 27?
Never ran right on multiple bikes with different chains. Shimano warrantied it and gave me a new cassette.

charliedid
06-12-2019, 05:45 PM
that video did not show the person adjusting anything while turning the cranks. seems like a chain line or cable tension adjust issue...or a defect :).

Sorry

58cm Gunnar Sport. R8000 derailleur. The correct one.

charliedid
06-12-2019, 05:48 PM
I would try a new chain- But I did have an 8000 cassette that had a bad cog. Mine was 3rd one down from the 34, so 27?
Never ran right on multiple bikes with different chains. Shimano warrantied it and gave me a new cassette.

Of course. I was going to buy it wholesale from Shimano and got a deal here for basically the same money and the right length crank arms.

I guess I could press them on it. Which cassette did they give in replacement a newer run of the same?

ColonelJLloyd
06-12-2019, 07:01 PM
I would try a new chain.

Same. And not a Shimano chain.

charliedid
06-12-2019, 07:07 PM
Same. And not a Shimano chain.

If I had to just jump right in I'd try a KMC chain first. Have you had the issue or know that a non Shimano chain works?

I wonder if this has anything to do with this cassette being able to run on both 10 and 11 speed FHB?

Who knows.

DRZRM
06-13-2019, 07:39 AM
You mean HG800 right? The 11 speed 11-34 that can fit a 9-11 speed MTB hub or 11 speed road hub? I get a bit of this too, known issue. Did Shimano ever deal with it? Are new ones better?

charliedid
06-13-2019, 07:48 AM
You mean HG800 right? The 11 speed 11-34 that can fit a 9-11 speed MTB hub or 11 speed road hub? I get a bit of this too, known issue. Did Shimano ever deal with it? Are new ones better?

Yes sir.

ColonelJLloyd
06-13-2019, 08:38 AM
If I had to just jump right in I'd try a KMC chain first. Have you had the issue or know that a non Shimano chain works?

Never had this issue, no.

I personally use a SRAM 1170 with a 105 level 11-32 11s cassette and it is quieter and smoother than the Ultegra chain it replaced. Maybe that was just a bad chain, but it was noisy and broke at three different links on a short tour, whereas the two KMC quick links held fine.

ryker
06-13-2019, 09:09 AM
11-34 Ultegra CS-R800 11 Speed Cassette

Ultegra chain and drivetrain. All new-ish. 11 spd freehub and using supplied spacer.

Anyone else have this issue? Noisy in general and rough feeling. Also found another issue doing research where the third largest cog(27) will make a click every revolution. This seems widely referenced on the web. I had not noticed but a quick check reveals this as well.

Anyone with this issue find a solution? It shifts just fine and is not really noticeable except when cleaning chain etc. But now I know...

Different chain? Different cassette? Just shut up and ride?

I installed the same 11-34 cassette yesterday (with a new DA chain and Ultegra RD) and had the same disappointing experience. Shifts fine but noisy in general coming from a DA cassette and RD.

I experienced the same click problem on the 27T cog however mine happened every second revolution of the cassette. It always happened on the same tooth but only when picking up an inner link (hence every second revolution). Position of the FD didn't change anything. The interim solution was to file the backside of the adjacent tooth on the 25T cog and the problem more or less went away.

I feel like some careful use of thin cassette spacers/shims (e.g. 0.1mm) in specific locations might improve the situation however whether it compromises shifting remains to be seen. Or perhaps a chain with slightly different thickness/geometry.

charliedid
06-13-2019, 09:25 AM
I installed the same 11-34 cassette yesterday (with a new DA chain and Ultegra RD) and had the same disappointing experience. Shifts fine but noisy in general coming from a DA cassette and RD.

I experienced the same click problem on the 27T cog however mine happened every second revolution of the cassette. It always happened on the same tooth but only when picking up an inner link (hence every second revolution). Position of the FD didn't change anything. The interim solution was to file the backside of the adjacent tooth on the 25T cog and the problem more or less went away.

I feel like some careful use of thin cassette spacers/shims (e.g. 0.1mm) in specific locations might improve the situation however whether it compromises shifting remains to be seen. Or perhaps a chain with slightly different thickness/geometry.

Hmm no surprise. Truthfully I hate Shimano chain and have never really used them over the years much. I don't know why exactly but always used KMC SRAM Sachs chains.

I guess I will go and try a KMC chain and see what happens later. I loathe futzy bike stuff. Good for you for trying to make it work.

Thanks

charliedid
06-13-2019, 09:27 AM
Never had this issue, no.

I personally use a SRAM 1170 with a 105 level 11-32 11s cassette and it is quieter and smoother than the Ultegra chain it replaced. Maybe that was just a bad chain, but it was noisy and broke at three different links on a short tour, whereas the two KMC quick links held fine.

I'm gonna try a KMC or 1170 chain and see what happens.

fa63
06-13-2019, 09:29 AM
I just bought a bike which came with a 11-34 cassette / Shimano chain (both brand new), and I am finding it to be noisier than I prefer as well. I will keep an eye on this thread to see if a different chain makes things better.

zmalwo
06-13-2019, 09:49 AM
might be a bent teeth.

charliedid
06-13-2019, 09:51 AM
might be a bent teeth.

If only it was that easy. It's a known issue, I just can't find the easy fix so I need to just try something. So it goes

Thx

GregL
06-13-2019, 10:00 AM
If only it was that easy. It's a known issue, I just can't find the easy fix so I need to just try something. So it goes
Is this issue isolated just to certain production runs? I ask because I've had an HG800 11-34 cassette on my gravel bike for the past year with zero issues. It runs perfectly with Shimano 5800 shifters/derailleurs, 6800 crankset (46/34 chainrings), Dura Ace chain, and KMC chain connector. I just spent a week riding the roads (gravel and paved) of Acadia National Park and it performed perfectly.

Greg

charliedid
06-13-2019, 10:27 AM
Is this issue isolated just to certain production runs? I ask because I've had an HG800 11-34 cassette on my gravel bike for the past year with zero issues. It runs perfectly with Shimano 5800 shifters/derailleurs, 6800 crankset (46/34 chainrings), Dura Ace chain, and KMC chain connector. I just spent a week riding the roads (gravel and paved) of Acadia National Park and it performed perfectly.

Greg

Not sure entirely.

Seems the 27 tooth issue was fixed for some with a replacement others not so much. I have that issue plus a general rough feeling especially in first three cogs. I can even see it jump a tiny bit.

That said it's not a huge problem but I am a bit of princess now that I know it. Especially the 27T thing. It must be fixed! :-)

It shifts flawlessly under all conditions.

charliedid
06-13-2019, 10:28 AM
I just bought a bike which came with a 11-34 cassette / Shimano chain (both brand new), and I am finding it to be noisier than I prefer as well. I will keep an eye on this thread to see if a different chain makes things better.

I'll def. post what I find.

NHAero
06-13-2019, 10:35 AM
I have these cassettes on the Anderson and the Firefly. The Anderson drivetrain is close to silent. The Firefly is noticeably noisier, but not just in one gear. Both running KMC 11s chains, both reasonably new, same lube. Anderson is Ultegra RD, Firefly is Dura Ace. Similar total chain wrap (44-33 on the Anderson, 46-34 on the FF, both have the 1st cog changed to a 12T 6800 series.)

I thought it was likely to be the chainrings, as the FF has SRAM Red and the Anderson has TA.

TheseGoTo11
06-13-2019, 11:25 AM
I've had the same issue with my HG800 clicking on the 27 cog from day one. Running with Shimano 11 speed chain. No issues with R8000 11-30 cassette or 6800 11-28 cassette.

ryker
06-13-2019, 11:40 AM
I've had the same issue with my HG800 clicking on the 27 cog from day one. Running with Shimano 11 speed chain. No issues with R8000 11-30 cassette or 6800 11-28 cassette.

For testing I swapped in an 11-32 without changing my limits, cable tension, or B-tension settings (i.e. no changes). It shifts perfectly through the entire range, has no oddball issues in single gears, and seems to be much quieter.

weiwentg
06-13-2019, 11:44 AM
I have one 11-34 cassette, and I can't say it's run rough. However, while trying to confirm which cog was the 27t one, I came across this Cyclingtips article (https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/shimano-ultegra-hg-800-11-34t-cassette-review/), which said

In the early days of testing, I experienced a bit of unexplained roughness and noise in certain gears with both this and a new R8000 cassette. Frankly I can’t explain it, and even where everything was set up perfectly, one or two gears (typically around the 17T sprocket) made more noise than they should. Thankfully the cassette eventually wore in, and the noise soon disappeared.

DRZRM
06-13-2019, 11:45 AM
Yeah, I think this is just an issue with the 27 cog, if someone has the issue with their top three cogs I think it is something else. If you fix it with a different chain, please let us know, I'd be more than happy to change. It's a gear I use a lot, and even micro adjusting the Di2 does nothing for it. Seems like a company as big as Shimano should have better QC.

charliedid
06-13-2019, 11:58 AM
I've had the same issue with my HG800 clicking on the 27 cog from day one. Running with Shimano 11 speed chain. No issues with R8000 11-30 cassette or 6800 11-28 cassette.

For testing I swapped in an 11-32 without changing my limits, cable tension, or B-tension settings (i.e. no changes). It shifts perfectly through the entire range, has no oddball issues in single gears, and seems to be much quieter.

Ah ha!

So it appears more likely that I should keep the chain and swap the cassette?

TY both.

NHAero
09-30-2019, 01:04 PM
Even weirder - I had one of these cassettes on my Anderson for a few hundred miles, maybe a bit more. Swapped it out for an 11-40 for D2R2. Just swapped it back on last night. Before, no clicking, and now it clicks! Same bike and all bits the same.

fmradio516
09-30-2019, 01:21 PM
To the OP: I dont remember the circumstances, but I remember feeling a similar "runs rough" drivetrain a few times. I could feel like some kind of binding through the pedals and there is a kind of droney noise associated with it.

I dont remember what I did to fix it, unfortunately.

NHAero
09-30-2019, 03:24 PM
So I put it up in the stand and watching carefully could see that there are two teeth on the 27T cog itself, not an adjacent cog, that lift the chain momentarily. I fussed with the cable adjuster and eventually made it stop. Fussy!

josephr
10-01-2019, 03:15 AM
I'm gonna try a KMC or 1170 chain and see what happens.

my experience with KMC chains is that they're noisy the first 50-100 miles...of course, all my bikes are 10sp, so dunno if 11, but they quiet down after a break-in period. good chain!