Titanium Hardtail MTB

[joosttx]

I’m thinking about buying a custom titanium hardtail MTB. Is there anything inherently better or worse with the material for mountain bikes....

[Ken Robb]

No paint to chip and no frame rust.

[rounder]

I don't know about a custom titanium hardtail bike.

But, I bought a custom titanium cross bike. I do not race it. But I love it. It rides great. Everything gets soaked up with no problems plus love the way it looks and rides. My vote is, if you can justify it, go get one and see for yourself.

[nmrt]

simply put, no.
get the ti.
:)

[joosttx]

I don't know about a custom titanium hardtail bike.

But, I bought a custom titanium cross bike. I do not race it. But I love it. It rides great. Everything gets soaked up with no problems plus love the way it looks and rides. My vote is, if you can justify it, go get one and see for yourself.

Why?

[XXtwindad]

Mine is double butted. Made by Alliance. Had it set up rigid and it clocked it at 19ish lbs. Fantastic for soaking up bumps and hits. I wouldn't think of getting another frame material for dirt.

[FlashUNC]

As long as you're not going for Lionel's geometry recommendations.

[Matthew]

I love my Moots. A buddy just got a Bearclaw ti hardtail and he's very happy with it. I think it's probably the best material for an mtb. Go for it.

[Kirk007]

I dunno. I have a Lynskey hardtail and it builds out to around 22-23 pounds so - lightweight, no scratch finish, plenty stiff but not obnoxiously so. I had a Lynskey in the past that was one of the stiffest bikes I've been on - didn't like it, sold it and kept a Cielo 29er steel bike - really nice ride quality, which I eventually sold as it wasn't getting ridden (a bad habit I have with mtn. bikes).

Other than lighter weight and better wet weather durability, not sure it would give you anything you don't already have in your 44 (unless you're going for + size or something) particulalry in terms of ride quality.

Custom builder - Kris? - should be able to give you the ride you want.

[Idris Icabod]

I have a Form built Ti hardtail. One issue to consider on a Ti frame is rear tire clearance. I'm pretty limited to 2.25 Ardents but many other 2.2 tires do not clear the chain stays. I still really like the ride but my buddies who ride carbon have skinnier stays and more clearance.

[nmrt]

I have ridden a carbon specialized stumpjumper hardtail. I have ridden a steel Spot hardtail. I have ridden an alloy Cannondale hardtail.
And I have ridden a ti Moots and a ti Blacksheep hardtail.

There are those that will tell you that for mtb bikes, the material does not make a difference. That since the tires are so "fat", one really cannot experience titanium's inherent and legendary ride qualities. That the "fat" mtb tires mute the ride qualities of the frame.

In my experience I have found that not to be true. I loved my ti hardtails. Despite the 2.25 to 2.4 width tires I put on them, I would like to believe that I could still feel titanium's ride qualities.

The carbon felt stiff and the alloy felt jarring while the steel felt a bit "sluggish". But my ti hardtails, ahhhh....the ride was unmistakably titanium. You own a ti mosaic. you know what i am talking about.

just get a ti hardtail. i would choose 44, or built, or firefly, or strong.

[charliedid]

If you paint it pink you'll have to remind/tell everyone you come across it's made out of titanium.

I'd build it as a rigid 29'r going "reasonably" lightweight. It would be a nice companion to the 44 assuming you would keep it.

[oldpotatoe]

I’m thinking about buying a custom titanium hardtail MTB. Is there anything inherently better or worse with the material for mountain bikes....

Titanium much better crash worthiness, if ya throw it into a rock garden, compared to plastic. Never rusts, lasts forever if made well. Can be pricey..and if it's a chinese/russian made one, for less $, may not be as durable.

http://www.habcycles.com/mtb.html

[GonaSovereign]

Change is nice, but I don't think it would be a significant improvement over what you have. A bit lighter, and rust proof. Scratch resistant if you don't paint it. IMHO, your 44 is near perfection as far as hardtails go.

(My ti experience: I race a modern ti cx bike, and had a ti hardtail. Ti can be as racy as top-end carbon - torsionally stiff, etc, but not as light.)

FWIW, my recent mtb upgrade was to a modern xc fs race bike (this one (https://intensecycles.com/collections/intense-sniper)): low and slack, 120mm front and back. That thing is fast and perfect for long days.

[HenryA]

Yes, do it.

[colker]

Titanium much better crash worthiness, if ya throw it into a rock garden, compared to plastic. Never rusts, lasts forever if made well. Can be pricey..and if it's a chinese/russian made one, for less $, may not be as durable.

http://www.habcycles.com/mtb.html

if it lasts forever then it´s trouble because all the hub, stem, brake, headset, bottom bracket, rim, tire standards will have changed inthe near future and he won´t find replacement parts anymore.
Picture the owner of a Seven 26in hardtail made in 1999.

[colker]

I´ve had a titanium hardtail and like my steel mtn bikes better. i am sure it´s not about the material but design.

[awdwon]

I love my Moots. A buddy just got a Bearclaw ti hardtail and he's very happy with it. I think it's probably the best material for an mtb. Go for it.

Gonna check out their fleet when I get up to Traverse City this summer. Thinking of picking up one of their all-road bikes.

[kingpin75s]

I’m thinking about buying a custom titanium hardtail MTB. Is there anything inherently better or worse with the material for mountain bikes....

All other things being equal. A little lighter and a little more forgiving in the rough than steel based on my experience.

[Matthew]

Hey awdwon, are you in Michigan? Traverse is beautiful. He got his at Einstein I believe. He did have to reduce his rear tire size due to some rub but loves the bike. He came from a full suspension Specialized Epic World Cup. Likes the hardtail better.

[joosttx]

I´ve had a titanium hardtail and like my steel mtn bikes better. i am sure it´s not about the material but design.

Everything matters, gaucho.

[skouri1]

My Ti indy fab deluxe has been quite awesome. immediately loved it over a FS trek fuel ex I had previously. I guess it depends what you are looking for, but I think its a great choice for MTB. only issue to note is after riding through a lot of standing water and not doing anything about it, BB got corroded. I left it in there for a while though, with no special grease or anything, so you may want to pull that every now and then. Other than that, yes its cool to not care about paint chips.

[colker]

Everything matters, gaucho.

Titanium makes the best handlebars... that´s all i know.

[joosttx]

Titanium makes the best handlebars... that´s all i know.

Makes sense...

[awdwon]

Hey awdwon, are you in Michigan? Traverse is beautiful. He got his at Einstein I believe. He did have to reduce his rear tire size due to some rub but loves the bike. He came from a full suspension Specialized Epic World Cup. Likes the hardtail better.



Nah, I’m from SW Ontario. I’ve been up there the last 2 summers with the family and we always have a blast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[old fat man]

I had a Santa Cruz chameleon and had Seven build a ti version when I worked there. Waste of money. My subsequent steel mtb's from another builder were better. I love the lack of paint but the ride was nothing special.

[gibbo]

Here is my Ti hard tail, its a blast to ride and takes a beating without missing a beat! :p I have crashed it quite a hard a few times and the decals were looking a bit ragged so I just removed them with an razor, and gave her a scrub with a scotch brite pad and she is just like new. ;)

[Matthew]

My Moots is a 2002 and parts haven't been an issue yet. Threaded BB, 1 1/8th headtube, 110mm stem, disc brakes, etc. I am worried about wrecking my wheels though. Guessing there aren't many 26in wheelsets sitting around anymore.

[colker]

My Moots is a 2002 and parts haven't been an issue yet. Threaded BB, 1 1/8th headtube, 110mm stem, disc brakes, etc. I am worried about wrecking my wheels though. Guessing there aren't many 26in wheelsets sitting around anymore.

My 26in HT is 2000 and it´s susp. forks are busted. I have been looking for a replacement 26in 80mm travel rim brake fork and all there is used marzocchis.

[72gmc]

Titanium makes the best handlebars... that´s all i know.

I believe this and would love to know this (future upgrade planning)

[bshell]

I currently have two titanium hard tails and a cx bike. They're nice.

In contrast to someone above, I had an early Seven Sola (15? years ago) that I seriously wish I had not sold.

[Matthew]

Yup, my suspension fork taking a poop and dying is my second biggest worry about having a 26er. Will be a real bummer if this happens. Can't imagine there are many in good shape to be found that aren't too expensive. Good thing I mostly road ride.

[Dino Suegiù]

I believe this and would love to know this (future upgrade planning)

For flat or riser handlebars, it's true.

The titanium ones last forever, are very comfortable, and for 25.4/26.0mm stems (can be easily shimmed to 31.8mm stems) there are many on eBay for very cheap, in many rises and sweeps, that a Scotch-Brite pad will make look like new.

For 31.8mm brand new, the Thomson ones are beautiful but expensive, Ti-Cycles more affordable, Jones (his H bar, I think are expensive also), a few from other titanium frame builders like Moots, and at least several other options (many of these might come from Control-Tech, etc. initially (even the Thomsons might be) but I am not sure about that, and anyway Control-Tech is good quality).

[kingpin75s]

For flat or riser handlebars, it's true.

The titanium ones last forever, are very comfortable, and for 25.4/26.0mm stems (can be easily shimmed to 31.8mm stems) there are many on eBay for very cheap, in many rises and sweeps, that a Scotch-Brite pad will make look like new.

For 31.8mm brand new, the Thomson ones are beautiful but expensive, Ti-Cycles more affordable, Jones (his H bar, I think are expensive also), a few from other titanium frame builders like Moots, and at least several other options (many of these might come from Control-Tech, etc. initially (even the Thomsons might be) but I am not sure about that, and anyway Control-Tech is good quality).

Good ones out there if you look long and hard enough. I tend to prefer the alt styles with some extra sweep.

Groovy Ti Luv Handles
Jones H and Loop Ti

My current favorite is an old set of Fatback Titanium bars. Shaped very similar to the Luv Handles but nice and wide. Picking up my new custom steel Long Travel HT frame tonight designed around these bars.

[Andy sti]

I would love a slacked out, short chainstay Ti hardtail with room for a 2.35-2.6 in back. 66.5-67 HA with a 130 fork - oh yeah!

My carbon hardtail is awesome for fast "workout" rides but it beats my old body up.

Great, now I have to call Erik and get another frame...

[colker]

For flat or riser handlebars, it's true.

The titanium ones last forever, are very comfortable, and for 25.4/26.0mm stems (can be easily shimmed to 31.8mm stems) there are many on eBay for very cheap, in many rises and sweeps, that a Scotch-Brite pad will make look like new.

For 31.8mm brand new, the Thomson ones are beautiful but expensive, Ti-Cycles more affordable, Jones (his H bar, I think are expensive also), a few from other titanium frame builders like Moots, and at least several other options (many of these might come from Control-Tech, etc. initially (even the Thomsons might be) but I am not sure about that, and anyway Control-Tech is good quality).

There are many cheap chinese ti 560mm /580mm bars but those are way short, ain´t they? Then there are Thomsons at the new 31.8 standard and the right length but you will spend a bit more. Anyways hbars make the perfect application for titanium.

[colker]

Good ones out there if you look long and hard enough. I tend to prefer the alt styles with some extra sweep.

Groovy Ti Luv Handles
Jones H and Loop Ti

My current favorite is an old set of Fatback Titanium bars. Shaped very similar to the Luv Handles but nice and wide. Picking up my new custom steel Long Travel HT frame tonight designed around these bars.

I want the old Fat Chance ti bars at 24in length and 8 degr. sweep. Made by Merlin?

[gt88]

I would love a slacked out, short chainstay Ti hardtail with room for a 2.35-2.6 in back. 66.5-67 HA with a 130 fork - oh yeah!

My carbon hardtail is awesome for fast "workout" rides but it beats my old body up.

Great, now I have to call Erik and get another frame...

I can attest that Erik gets that kind of bike!

[joosttx]

I can attest that Erik gets that kind of bike!

me likey

[rounder]

Why?

I am probably not a good one to ask because I am not a racer and do not have endless budget.

I bought the titanium cross bike because I never had a ti bike before and wanted to see what it was like. My bikes have all been steel or aluminum (been riding for over 30 years). But the ti bike rides great and is the smoothest riding bike I ever had. The bike was built custom for me, but having ridden it for the past five years, the bike always feels great. Not worried about dings, rust or fatigue life.

[Andy sti]

I can attest that Erik gets that kind of bike!

Haha, exactly!

Went for a ride with him last fall and I used his hard tail. Slightly older but still was so awesome!

[djg]

Why?

I liked mine, which I did race (although that's in the past) -- loved it, really, because it was responsive, balanced, and fit like a glove (after a 3-hour fitting with Tom Kellog) -- a great riding, great handling bike. Killer paint, too. That is, my cross bike. My mtb is stock, and steel, and my mtb experience is relatively limited.

[Dave Ferris]

The Potts 29er with Potts stem, bars and Eriksen sweetpost is coming up on 5 years old this fall.....it seems like it was yesterday we drove up to Black Mountain to pick it up after Mike did the build on it.

I'd yearned for a Ti Mtn. bike since the '80s when I first rode a Merlin and then a Moots in the Santa Monicas. The Potts is a dream come true.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2024650737789169&set=picfp.100007327866309&type=3&theater

[the bottle ride]

I have a bunch of Ti bikes going back to the 90’s- Ti is a great material for riding in the dirt.

I have a Ti Indy Fab and a steel Indy Fab- similar build blah-blah
The Ti bike speaks to me in a different way: the way it rides (it flexes a little more- there is a little rebound coming out of corners), the emotional connection (all my heroes rode Ti bikes back in the day: Wiens, John Funk, Furtado, Grewal- the list goes on) and the feeling that Ti will get me through the apocalypse when the plastic bike might melt.

There is some permanence in Ti that is unlike any other material.

I remember being my fastest on a Ti bike. (That May not be true- but I like to believe that)

[joosttx]

Im putting a deposit on a Bingham Built hardtail. I should get it in time for Fall. Whole Athlete in San Anselmo, CA is doing the fit and and build out.....this bike is going to be a bad boy

[Dave Ferris]

I'd love for Brad to build me a 650b/27.5 . Actually if I had the dough I'd make it a two-fer with his Full suspension design. That would be something - a Potts and two Eriksen/Binghams.

[buddybikes]

I have a Chance ti up in the rafters, need to bring down and give it a ride sometime.
Just can't get nerve to sell it, figure if my body totally goes I can always set this up as a hybrid.

[joosttx]

I'd love for Brad to build me a 650b/27.5 . Actually if I had the dough I'd make it a two-fer with his Full suspension design. That would be something - a Potts and two Eriksen/Binghams.

I think Brad has the best welds in the biz. That would be quite a stable.

[HenryA]

Im putting a deposit on a Bingham Built hardtail. I should get it in time for Fall. Whole Athlete in San Anselmo, CA is doing the fit and and build out.....this bike is going to be a bad boy

LOVE IT!!!

That will be an awesome bike.

[Mikej]

Brad usually has a pretty quick turn around once you hammer it all out. Did he quote a time frame? I have Brad welded Eriksens, btw. I would like to ask him to make a butted road, since he is kind of doing his own now. Kent was a non-butted builder.

[gt88]

Im putting a deposit on a Bingham Built hardtail. I should get it in time for Fall. Whole Athlete in San Anselmo, CA is doing the fit and and build out.....this bike is going to be a bad boy

Rad! Looking forward to seeing this come together.

[zambenini]

Way to go. I will be following with interest as I love my Cielo MTB so much I have thought about getting a copy in Ti. Might as well put a ring on it. Only complaint has been weight and durability of the paint, both of which ti would address.

[MattTuck]

Yup, my suspension fork taking a poop and dying is my second biggest worry about having a 26er. Will be a real bummer if this happens. Can't imagine there are many in good shape to be found that aren't too expensive. Good thing I mostly road ride.

So you're saying my 1999 rockshox judy may have some value on the secondary market? :)

[Matthew]

Yeah Matt, I may PM you in the future!!! I found an old SID here on the forum. Besides a scuff or two it's in great working order. Have done virtually nothing to it the last few years. Wheels and shock will be very difficult to find and will likely force me to go to larger wheels down the road. My wallet and wife hope that's not for a while. Me too, as I love my Rigor!

[chunkylover53]

I have a Ti Honzo and love it. It definitely takes a bit of the edge off trail chatter. If I had to pick a builder, it would be Bingham - his craftsmanship just seems a bit above anyone else. One day I'd love to have one. You'll have to finish it off with some ti eewings - I splurged this spring and the ti on ti looks awesome

[jm714]

Joosttx I’m curious why you’re not going with 44 Bikes on this build? Your steel HT is sweet and now that 44 is doing Ti it would seem just go that way since your measurements etc are already there. Are you looking for another philosophy on geo or is it that you want to go with a builder that specializes in Ti? I’m curious because I have been thinking of a 44 HT in steel, but this conversation about Ti vs steel is interesting and I look forward to your comments in the future regarding your two bikes.

[joosttx]

Joosttx I’m curious why you’re not going with 44 Bikes on this build? Your steel HT is sweet and now that 44 is doing Ti it would seem just go that way since your measurements etc are already there. Are you looking for another philosophy on geo or is it that you want to go with a builder that specializes in Ti? I’m curious because I have been thinking of a 44 HT in steel, but this conversation about Ti vs steel is interesting and I look forward to your comments in the future regarding your two bikes.

The folks I’m working with sell Built. Therefore, I’m buying a Built. I think I’ll be ok. Probably be selling my 44 bc I have no
space. Although I know I’m going to regret it. if you are interested in mine. PM me. I highly recommend 44

[joosttx]

Looks like it’s coming together:

Confirmed my fit.

120mm stepcast fox shock
68.2 Ht angle
3 water bottles
Bead blasted titanium / black logos
Debating axs eagle.

[FlashUNC]

Looks like it’s coming together:

Confirmed my fit.

120mm stepcast fox shock
68.2 Ht angle
3 water bottles
Bead blasted titanium / black logos
Debating axs eagle.

Get AXS Eagle.

[fishwhisperer]

Get AXS Eagle.

Agreed. Once the wallet's open....

[joosttx]

Brad usually has a pretty quick turn around once you hammer it all out. Did he quote a time frame? I have Brad welded Eriksens, btw. I would like to ask him to make a butted road, since he is kind of doing his own now. Kent was a non-butted builder.

He doesnt butt usually or ever. (not sure). I trust in the builder doing his thing. About 2 month turn-around.

[Mikej]

He doesnt butt usually or ever. (not sure). I trust in the builder doing his thing. About 2 month turn-around.

I know, that's why I was going to ask. I may end up with a Mosaic RT-1D because of this.

[simplemind]

Take a look at the Moots Mountaineer YBB (https://moots.com/bike/mountaineer/). It's a do-all bike that is super comfortable (thanks to YBB). It can be configured as a monstercross (bikepacking), a gravel, or a mountain bike. Can run 27.5+ or 29er wheelsets.
I talked to a lot of people that had hardtail but went to FS and they all said they did it because the got tired of getting beat up. I was on the fence, but when the Mountaineer surfaced, I thought it would be a winner, and it is. YMMV.

[joosttx]

Take a look at the Moots Mountaineer YBB (https://moots.com/bike/mountaineer/). It's a do-all bike that is super comfortable (thanks to YBB). It can be configured as a monstercross (bikepacking), a gravel, or a mountain bike. Can run 27.5+ or 29er wheelsets.
I talked to a lot of people that had hardtail but went to FS and they all said they did it because the got tired of getting beat up. I was on the fence, but when the Mountaineer surfaced, I thought it would be a winner, and it is. YMMV.

I thought about getting a Moots but I really dont like the curvy top or downtubes. Plus, I am not looking for a do everything bike.

[simplemind]

I thought about getting a Moots but I really dont like the curvy top or downtubes. Plus, I am not looking for a do everything bike.

That's cool, sounds like you know what you want and this is a great place to bounce ideas off of!

Oh, forgot to add, another aspect of the Mountaineer is that you can run 27+ 2.8 tires, which in itself contributes to a lot more suspension than just the stated travel.

[crankles]

Why?



I had Erik @ alliance build a Ti CX rig with the same geo as my steel Speedvagen. It's better in a way that butter is better than Margerine....I just wanted type that...sorry.

Seriously though. I have the same wheels/tires on each so it's a pretty close apples-to-apples comparison. The biggest difference I've noticed is the rear stay connected to the ground better. I've had to pit during races, riding the same lap at pace and noticed the diff.

If you are going hardtail, I'd thing you might have a similar experience.

[joosttx]

I had Erik @ alliance build a Ti CX rig with the same geo as my steel Speedvagen. It's better in a way that butter is better than Margerine....I just wanted type that...sorry.

Seriously though. I have the same wheels/tires on each so it's a pretty close apples-to-apples comparison. The biggest difference I've noticed is the rear stay connected to the ground better. I've had to pit during races, riding the same lap at pace and noticed the diff.

If you are going hardtail, I'd thing you might have a similar experience.

That's a neat experiment.

[crankles]

That's a neat experiment.

Got the same thing going on with a road bike, Erik @ alliance built my favorite steel frame about 3.5 yrs ago. A few months ago, the paint started to fail...bubbling around the rear cable stop, which is stainless BTW. Between the time it was painted and now, Spectrum changed hands and the *new* spectrum refused to warranty the failing paint. In an effort to make things right, Erik offered to build a Ti version usiing the CADD from the steel frame...no more rust worries... at cost.

so a month ago I swapped the parts from the steel frame over to the Ti. I *did* swap out the drive train from Red to eTap, but wheels/tires and cockpit are the same. Very fun experiment indeed as in both cases it's really the material and choice of tubing.

[joosttx]

Got the same thing going on with a road bike, Erik @ alliance built my favorite steel frame about 3.5 yrs ago. A few months ago, the paint started to fail...bubbling around the rear cable stop, which is stainless BTW. Between the time it was painted and now, Spectrum changed hands and the *new* spectrum refused to warranty the failing paint. In an effort to make things right, Erik offered to build a Ti version usiing the CADD from the steel frame...no more rust worries... at cost.

so a month ago I swapped the parts from the steel frame over to the Ti. I *did* swap out the drive train from Red to eTap, but wheels/tires and cockpit are the same. Very fun experiment indeed as in both cases it's really the material and choice of tubing.
That’s a cool experiment. My Built will be a little different based on the builders preferences. So mine frames will not be apples to apples.

[Butch]

I would not recommend a butted frame for a Ti mountain bike. The advantage for weight just isn't a decent % reduction and the ease of denting the frame on a rock goes up. A US built frame will be a lot lighter than an imported frame, even if it is butted. The wall thickness on the imported butted tubing I have handled are very thick so the butting is necessary so the fame isn't an anchor.
With the Mountaineer YBB the top tube is bent to achieve standover without using a strut. The YBB needs the seat tube length to be relatively long for the suspension to work.

https://moots.com/bike/mountaineer/

The Farwell is versatile as well and you may be able to get it with a straight toptube, both have a straight downtube. The curved downtube served the purpose to create fork crown clearance. With the lengthening of forks and head angles kicking back a bunch, there is no need for it on the downtube.

Brad does great work. The welds tell only part of the story. I can say with confidence both the Moots and BinghamBuilt/Eriksen are excellent from the ground up. Different styles.

[zambenini]

My 26in HT is 2000 and it´s susp. forks are busted. I have been looking for a replacement 26in 80mm travel rim brake fork and all there is used marzocchis.

Have a 100mm fox that is rim or disc compatible. 1 & 1/8 steerer. Let me know if you are willing to overfork it.

[Gummee]

Titanium much better crash worthiness, if ya throw it into a rock garden, compared to plastic. Never rusts, lasts forever if made well. Can be pricey..and if it's a chinese/russian made one, for less $, may not be as durable.

http://www.habcycles.com/mtb.html

there's also Waltly and Titan to consider for chinesium frames

M

[Mikej]

The Farwell is versatile as well and you may be able to get it with a straight toptube, both have a straight downtube. The curved downtube served the purpose to create fork crown clearance. With the lengthening of forks and head angles kicking back a bunch, there is no need for it on the downtube.

Brad does great work. The welds tell only part of the story. I can say with confidence both the Moots and BinghamBuilt/Eriksen are excellent from the ground up. Different styles.

Yeah Moots is the LAST holdout on the HTA at 72 ***- riding that geometry is like I just got done drinking-