OT: Driving in France--Planning travel times

[Tommasini53]

Two questions for the Forumites with experience driving in France/Europe:
1) In your experience does Google Maps accurately predict travel times? and
2) do you have a favorite website/resource for Euro driving tips and hints? please share

We're driving from Paris to southern France (Orange). Google maps makes it appear that its a one day trip via the major highway system. Is that reasonable?

I've driven around rural central and northern Italy but we've never in a situation where we had to cover a big piece of real estate in a day; its all been back roads and leisurely. All great experiences on three vacations for a total of 6 weeks. I've learned enough to know that traveling in a foreign country takes longer and more attention than in the homeland. thanks in advance.

[572cv]

Google Maps does fine. It seems adequately tuned in to the speeds on the highways in France. Six hours is a good long drive, but stopping at the 'airs' is really convenient, and a good way to stretch the legs.

I like Via Michelin in France for directions and map quality as an alternative to Google.

Both seem to be up to speed with regard to road closures and traffic delays.

Most rental cars have pretty decent here-to-there GPS in France, which adjusts your route for traffic, construction, etc. Take a moment to change the language to english on the car before you head out. I'm assuming a rental here.

As to driving tips, I don't have a website for such, but a few things to note:
- roundabouts are everywhere. If you are in the roundabout, you have the r.o.w. If you are entering the roundabout, you do not. you only have to look over your left shoulder to see if anyone is coming as you approach the roundabout.
- on any road other than restricted access highways where they are not allowed, a vehicle must defer to a more vulnerable user of the road (cyclist, runner, walker, horseback rider, farmer on tractor, whatever). If you hit a more vulnerable user, you are automatically guilty unless you can prove otherwise. Never try to squeeze around someone in this situation. Wait till you can give plenty of berth.
- When you come to a narrow bridge or road section, you will see a sign with an arrow up (you) and an arrow down ( other direction). One of the arrows is red and the other is black. Black has the right of way.
- If you are driving somewhere from your base to go for a ride, you can find public parking in a town by looking for the square-ish blue signs with a white P on them.
- when they say a road is closed, it is almost always is, even to the extent of not being able to get a bike through.
- there are a lot of speed cameras around these days. Pay attention to the other drivers and if everyone is slowing down, assume there is a reason!

There are a few tips. In general, the roads are well maintained and signed and pretty easy to understand. France is a great place to ride a bike! Look for the little white roads on the Michelin maps, or on Via Michelin.

Finally, sorry you're not taking the TGV down from Paris. That's a terrific ride.

[CDollarsign]

+1 on the TGV from Paris south. Cheap, fast, comfortable, and amazing scenery.

[Ken Robb]

I don't know how tolls are collected these days but one of my pals got a big fine for speeding on The Autoroute some years ago when he tried to pay his toll upon exiting the road. His entry ticket showed the time of entry and the toll official did the math on his time of exit for absolute proof that he had exceeded the speed limit by quite a bit. Of course he had just done his annual 3-day driving school on The Nurburgring so his perception of reasonable speed was skewed. :)

[rccardr]

That's a nice drive once you get out of Paris. Just take your time and enjoy the scenery. Figure on playing your own music.

French highways are great, the drivers are courteous, and they are CLEAN...puts the condition of most US highways to shame.

Having a car in that area is also really worthwhile, lots of stuff to see and do.

[Seamus]

TGV lets you take your bike for free too if traveling with your own. Each carriage I was on had a nice luggage spot in the middle of it that I was able to easily fit a Pika Packworks case without it getting crushed or in the way at all.

[saab2000]

Re: Tolls

I was unaware that they track speed but I did have a challenge with paying it a few years ago. Learn how to pay your tolls before you go.

French highways are really nice. A huge step up from most US Interstate roads.

[Polyglot]

I don't know how tolls are collected these days but one of my pals got a big fine for speeding on The Autoroute some years ago when he tried to pay his toll upon exiting the road. His entry ticket showed the time of entry and the toll official did the math on his time of exit for absolute proof that he had exceeded the speed limit by quite a bit. Of course he had just done his annual 3-day driving school on The Nurburgring so his perception of reasonable speed was skewed. :)

Unless things have changed in the last years, the toll collector cannot issue a ticket but it is quite common to have a group of Gendarmes waiting at toll exits for speeders. The toll booths then signal those who've grossly exceeded the speed limit for the section traveled.

As far as the OP's post, it is very easy to drive from Paris to anywhere in France in one day, especially if you use the toll roads. The bigger question is why would you want to drive long distances? There are so many things to do and see in every part of France that is normally not necessary to go very far before finding another extra special place.

[Dino Suegiù]

Regarding the tolls/tracking, with the extent of terrorism in France, much is more controlled/surveilled than it used to be, but it is still a great and quite easy country to travel.

From Paris to Orange, if speed is the issue the TGV is obviously better (as fast as a plane by the time one factors in airport time).

If driving is preferred, the route down through Orlèans, Bourges, Clermont-Ferrand is longer but lovelier.

[goonster]

Yes, Google maps work well in Europe.

Some years ago I did this trip by train: TGV to Lyon, regional train to Orange.

Now I see there is a direct TGV link to Avignon, which gets you from the Gare de Lyon to Orange in 3.5 hrs. Amazing.

[572cv]

Re: Tolls

I was unaware that they track speed but I did have a challenge with paying it a few years ago. Learn how to pay your tolls before you go.

French highways are really nice. A huge step up from most US Interstate roads.

Yes, the tolls ! At the payage, find the lane that has the symbol above it for card or cash. there are others for folks with electronic pay thingies in their cars. At the pay box, you put in the entry ticket ( which you picked up to get on the highway, make sure to get that in the ticket lane), it tells you how much to pay. Then you insert your card (chip card required), or cash. It will make change if you use cash. Not hard but stressful if you have a line of people behind you and you screw up.:)

[Steve in SLO]

We arrived at Charles deGaulle, walked with our luggage including 2 S&S bike cases to the TGV station in CdG and took the train to Tours, then drove a rental car to the Dordogne Valley. TGV was amazing, reasonable and a great time saver. We then used Google maps for Nav and route-finding due to traffic. It worked well, but was in French for us.
BTW: Beware of hidden stationary radar setups on secondary roads. They're tricky.

[saab2000]

BTW: Beware of hidden stationary radar setups on secondary roads. They're tricky.

To this end, doing a Google search on driving customs in different parts of the world. I lived in Switzerland for a long time, married into the automobile industry, so I had good teachers.

Many road customs and habits are very different from the US and worth knowing.

An hour of research will probably make the OP’s driving experience much more enjoyable and less stressful.

[alessandro]

+2 for TGV—the train in countries with real public investment in transportation infrastructure is amazing.

What time of year are you going? August is a big vacation month, so the roads may be crowded.

[Mr. Pink]

Instead of Google Maps, or renting an expensive GPS, download HERE WeGo to your phone, and then download the data for France. This is an excellent GPS app I have used in Italy and Spain, and it uses zero data. Your phone could be on airplane mode while you're using it. Also works well in cities as you walk around, as long as buildings don't hide the satelites.
I've compared it to Google Maps, and Google is much slower. I'm assuming that its so clogged up with commercial interests. HERE has no ads or tie ins to commercial establisments.

[schwa86]

FWIW we drove around Provence last fall. I found it easier and less stressful to take TGV direct from airport to Avignon, and rented car there -- which was a lot cheaper than many of the Paris rental options. But I agree with all the other comments with one additional thought -- in my experience, when we got to really small roads, hilly towns, etc., google didn't care too much about ease of driving vs. shaving a minute or two off -- I'd rather have ease of driving on unfamiliar roads -- so we'd often take a quick peek before setting out somewhat blindly on google to see if there might be a slightly less direct way with easier driving.

[velotel]

The french rely heavily, maybe even excessively, on the rule of the car coming in from the right at intersections has the right of way. As I recall in the states it's rare to come across an unmarked/uncontrolled intersection, i.e. stop sign, etc. In France on secondary roads it's all but normal to continually come across intersections with no control. Therefore the road to the right has the right of way. It can be a pain at times. Just look at the pavement. If there's no white line painted, the car on the right having the right of way will be the case.

If you're feeling confused about where to go while driving, pull over and figure it out. The french, like lots of people, can be annoyingly impatient.

Road markings for directions are excellent as a rule but don't look for the road numbers, look at the town names. Which in turn means having a map with good detail can be a good idea because large scale maps only have the main town, and the intersections more than likely will have the coming small towns and hamlets on the signs.

If in doubt in a town, follow the 'toutes directions' signs. They'll take you through, or at least to an intersection where you'll see what you want on a sign.

Don't hesitate to use tourist offices. Very helpful people, invariably able to speak english, or at least I think so. I don't really know because I never speak english with them but I'm sure they do.

Yellow triangle sign means the road has the right of way. Probably a good idea to give a good look at the explanations on a map for what the signs mean. Michelin maps have always been good for that.

You may have noticed my responses all talk about maps. I'm a map guy, the paper kind, I find them super useful, France has good ones. But I've seen friends here drive with various aps on their phones for directions that work very, very well. Some even warn you about radar controls. It's easier to just drive the limit then you don't have to worry about controls.

Cheers

[Mzilliox]

Seems reasonable. I am there right now using google maps for rides and drives. Accurate so far. Theres a million roads though. No tips for driving, just drive like a person who isnt in a huge hurry. They do occassionally have a rule where a road comming in from right has right of way, but not often and it flows.:banana:
You got way more info on driving than i did on cycling. Are we sure this is a bike forum?

[enr1co]

Be aware of the speed limits as they are tracked by radar. Otherwise be ready to receive mail notifications and invoices stating speeding infractions which you have little to no recourse other than to pay when back home in the States.

Also you may want to consider paying for the full daily CDW from whatever rental car company you are using.

I waived this and relied on the rental car insurance which is included with my Master Card. I rented a car from Alamo Lyon Airport for use with touring the Alps and Provence and upon turning in the car at Alamo Nice, France, they inspected the car with white glove scrutiny and finally found some barely visible scratches in the clear coat, (no exposed paint) at the lower underside edge of the car. They even took a wet cloth in attempt to accentuate these clear coat scratches and that they needed to file a damage report and would bill my card a 1000 euro deposit until they had the "damage" assessed for repair.

When getting home, I wrote Alamo to contest the situation and provided photo evidence of the scratches which could barely be seen and they finally dropped the incident report stating lack of evidence that I had inflicted the "damage" but it was a overall PITA and waste of time to resolve. I further researched online on similar experiences by visitors renting cars and read of similar cases of unethical antics and scamming from French car rental companies.

[martl]

Two questions for the Forumites with experience driving in France/Europe:
1) In your experience does Google Maps accurately predict travel times?

2) do you have a favorite website/resource for Euro driving tips and hints? please share


1) In most of france, traffic isn't bad and due to the speed limits, driving is relaxed, also predictable in terms of travel time.

*Your* route may be an exception, as it is the Anually Summer Holiday Trip To The South highway for *everyone* in the season (July/August/every friday). If you're unlucky, you share the road with 15 Million Parisiennes and Parisiens, not to mention another 5 Mio sun-starved northerners.

2) don't trust any website that claims to know what "Euro driving" is because there is no such thing. Rules, written and unwritten, will vary greatly between countries and even within them.

If you pass a line of trucks on the left hand highway lane, and the rear view shows a german car flashing its indicator, he expects you to be out of his way in 0.5 or else, a frenchman or italian doing the same thing is just an old school driver.
German coppers will cut you ~10% slack when speeding, meaning everyone goes 110 when 100 are allowed, swiss cops will bill you if they catch you going 100.1 on their possibly Rolex-made high precision speedcam. (France can be very strict, too, and it's expensive).
In Italy no one slows down in highway construction sites, and speeding is allowed when in a pretty car.
Italian authorities will seize you car for good if they catch you DIY, and they are slick with a tow truck if you park where you shouldn't, which is a bitch because the parking systems can be very weird with color coding or alternating sides of the road whether its an odd or even day of the month (no joke).

In rural Russia, carry a dashcam and an AK47.... so, no unified "EU style of road use".

..well, back to France:

France recently lowered the legal speed outside settlements from 90 to 80 and older satnav software doesnt know that, also many of the locals don't seem to have gotten the memo (or they are yellow vests protesting the government), following suit is still a bad idea.

Some French are still today very nochalant about full-contact-parking and are completely puzzled when a foreigner complains about a scratch in the bumper or a bent license plate, which is why enr1co's insurance advice is a good one.

Public and hotel parking lots in cities can be *very* cozy and difficult to navigate (there is a reason the french love small cars)

On rural mountain roads, many do a short honk before rounding a narrow blind corner.

If a lot of oncoming traffic flashes their beams at you, it means either: you're approching a speed control, your fog lights are on, or they recogized the number plate and support Bayern München.

In the south of france, mostly coastside near the famous spots like Cannes, Nice, Marseille, Mte Carlo, it is a *very* bad idea to leave the car parked on one of those roadside gravel lots, especially those that are littered with greenish glass shards. No kidding.

French *love* their roundabouts, some are huge allowing several cars in parallel. The rules of engagement in those i never understood and possibly are comprehensible only if you were born within 5 miles of the Place de la Concorde.

I agree to the comment about the toll booths, these can be very confusing with up 4 different types for different types of payment. I even know one of those stations that has booths for people *with* a slip froma a previous station, and booths for those those *without*. Very confusing on longer trips, when you've passed a lot of them and can't really remember if you're supposed to have a slip or not. after driving there for 2 decades, my heart still jumps at everyone of them "OMG where did i put the slip..?!?").
The expert will enter such a booth in a way the machine is approachable easily through the side window, yet the drivers door still opens just in case... (had one, once, where the lower vending machine was broken and i had to use the one for the lorries 2m higher). Few things are as embarassing as being the reason why 20 cars have to back out of one of those...

Fuel is cheapest (up to 20ct/litre less) on automated gas stations connected to large stores like SuperU, Castorama, Casino, which are all over the place.
You need to feed your plastic money, then you'll need to chose the pump, the fuel type and the amount. Of course, the order of that varies from station to station :D
Some of those automats boldly offer an english navigation interface, but don't really speak the language. Also, they can be picky about the type of credit/debit card they like, so best to carry a few of them just in case.

Highway gas stations and branded stations are *very* expensive, they also are often on automatic mode during night time.

[rccardr]

Ahhhh. French rental cars! We've been 'upgraded' four or five times to much larger sedans (Mercedes, Peugeot, Alfa, Citroen) when the rental agency claimed to be unable to fill our stated reservation for a Golf sized vehicle. Once they tried to stick us with a 10 passenger van. Could be because they know we're American and thus used to larger vehicles, or maybe the locals don't want the larger cars because of the worse fuel mileage. Not a huge problem unless you're on a strict budget or driving thru midaevil towns with super narrow streets, but we've found that if we just keep insisting we eventually get the smaller car.

Also, a big agreement on buying the full insurance package. One experience with even minor damage will make you a believer.

[Miljack]

All good advice, and I would add to watch out for the gendarmes in the smaller villages, not unusual at all for an old fashioned speed trap!
The food in gas stations was good too!

[LouDeeter]

We arrived at Charles deGaulle, walked with our luggage including 2 S&S bike cases to the TGV station in CdG and took the train to Tours, then drove a rental car to the Dordogne Valley. TGV was amazing, reasonable and a great time saver. We then used Google maps for Nav and route-finding due to traffic. It worked well, but was in French for us.
BTW: Beware of hidden stationary radar setups on secondary roads. They're tricky.

I hope you read Martin Walker's books before visiting the Dordogne and the Perigord area. His Caves of Perigord is a good start, then the Bruno series.

[unterhausen]

1) In most of france, traffic isn't bad and due to the speed limits, driving is relaxed, also predictable in terms of travel time.

Public and hotel parking lots in cities can be *very* cozy and difficult to navigate (there is a reason the french love small cars)

French *love* their roundabouts, some are huge allowing several cars in parallel. The rules of engagement in those i never understood and possibly are comprehensible only if you were born within 5 miles of the Place de la Concorde.


I haven't been to France since 2011, but I got the impression that running a red light was really bad. We rented a van, and the first difficult part of the trip was to get out of the rental car parking lot. I might stick with trains this summer, if I make it.

Riding a bike through roundabouts is great in rural areas. I only screwed up once and entered right before a truck. The driver was understanding though. Those small ones work great, just yield to traffic in the circle, otherwise, go. Much better than traffic lights. The most intimidating circle I drove is the one around the Arc de Triomphe. Vehicles enter at upwards of 60mph, and the traffic in the circle is going 20mph.

Best part of this was we got off the plane and my wife notes that we will get to the hotel hours before we can check in. So let's go see the Arc de Triomphe. Okay, I'm going on 20 hours without decent sleep and we are entering an old world city during morning rush hour, but let's do it. Wasn't too bad from CDG, but then we got dumped out on the surface streets. That was hair-raising until I realized that driving like a tourist was a losing proposition and started driving like a nut, just like all the locals. They are very accommodating to lane changes. They might not give a lot of room, but there is room. None of the nonsense you see in the U.S. where people speed up to block you.

They got rid of at least some of the high speed center lanes on the Paris boulevards. Not sure what that has done to traffic. These lanes would go under the cross streets.

[johnmdesigner]

Why not just fly or train to Marseille then rent a car?
I drove from Paris to Cassis in 2 days once. Yes, the roads are good but it's not much of a vacation. I was worn out.