OT: Porsche Guy or Alfa Guy?

[paredown]

I'm trying to deal with my new addiction--watching the auctions on BAT for cars that I can't afford.

Observations:
Porsche prices are insane (except for the 986/993 with the IMS cloud over them.) Even 944s are getting expensive and people are paying real money for 928s!

Alfas seem to be selling cheap--well, comparatively.

So it you were picking a budget project/fun car--would you go down the Porsche or the Alfa rabbit hole?

I happened across a local '86 Alfa Spyder for a measly $600 and it was mostly there, which is how I started thinking about Alfas (again). How had could it be I said to myself. (Actually I have some idea--my brother had three over a number of years that he kindly let me drive and we wrenched on together.)

[grateful]

Porsche-Reliabilty

987's are fantastic cars and are inexpensive in the scheme of things.

[texbike]

I'm trying to deal with my new addiction--watching the auctions on BAT for cars that I can't afford.

Observations:
Porsche prices are insane (except for the 986/993 with the IMS cloud over them.) Even 944s are getting expensive and people are paying real money for 928s!

Alfas seem to be selling cheap--well, comparatively.

So it you were picking a budget project/fun car--would you go down the Porsche or the Alfa rabbit hole?

I happened across a local '86 Alfa Spyder for a measly $600 and it was mostly there, which is how I started thinking about Alfas (again). How had could it be I said to myself. (Actually I have some idea--my brother had three over a number of years that he kindly let me drive and we wrenched on together.)

Yeah, old air-cooled 911s have gone crazy. However, old Alfa prices have become insane as well for the most part. Only the 105 Spiders, Alfettas, Milanos, and 164s seem to be somewhat affordable at this point.

As for the 105 Spiders, they can be money pits if you pick up the wrong one. A project can quickly exceed the current market values by the time you do the mechanicals, paint, top, and interior. That $600 project can end up being way more expensive in the long run than just buying a really nice, original example. The absolute nicest examples of the Series 3 Spider like the one you mention can be found for under $15K all day long. The prices just go down from there. They're fun, simple cars that are actually quite reliable.

I've had a half dozen of them over the years. While, they're not a 911 (from a performance perspective), they have their own quirky charm. My pick is a Graduate for its simplicity and add Campagnolo 5 spoke wheels to it from the Veloce model to complete the look. They're perhaps the best deal in classic sports cars at this point.

Good luck with your search!

Texbike

[William]

Nah, I want an old SPG like the one I used to own... :)







W.

[djg]

Dunno, a project is a project, and I've never really acquired a true project car (unless you are counting the old Buick K Car my dad gave me when I was in grad school back when people still had K cars; and that was a different kind of project). The cars you mentioned are pretty different from each other, yes?

Selling my '06 M3 ragtop, I think. Alas.

[choke]

I like both....but what I really want is a TVR 2500M.

[dancinkozmo]

hyundai guy here

[oldpotatoe]

ALFA, all day, everyday..for the same reason you lust after a bike frame with the 'far superior Italian threading'....

[saab2000]

Want a fun car that won’t kill the budget? Look at a Mazda MX-5/Miata.

Tons of fun, reliable, extremely well built, etc. I had one and hope to own another.

[alancw3]

if I were 6 inches shorter (I'm 6'4" tall) I would have a 1966-1994 red Spyder as their are so many great deals on the bay. I loved those cars unfortunately built for shorter people. a friend of mine way back his parents bought him one brand new. I can tell you that I could hardly drive at my size. I still loved the car. imho on of the prettiest cars ever built and handled great.

[RacerJRP]

The Porsche bubble will burst IMO. Prices won't tank, but they will start to come back towards reality....the market can only support so much. Anyway that's the feedback I get from my friends that play in the exotic/ supercar space.

If you want a Porsche and can live with the headlights, a reasonably nice 996 can still be found sub $20k.

[alancw3]

my favorite porsche ever is the 2002 gt2. basically a race car street licensable for the street. so much more ridiculously priced was the 2018 gt2 rs. like $450,000. what I see as a game changer is the much anticipated mid engine c8 corvette. from what I have read for $100k-$150 (depending on performance options) you are going to get super car performance. supposed to be released 7/18/19 as a 2020 model. this is actually the most anticipated corvette ever. I just hope it lives up to all the hype.

[tuscanyswe]

Porsches are to expensive and have been for quite a while and now the prices seem to drop so cant use the "investment excuse" to get one anymore.

I made my choice 2 years ago. I have no regrets, the turbo still makes me smile every time, its like im driving this mad rally car only it has handstiched interior and walnut inserts *** :) Oh and plastic buttons that break and pop out for the complete mazerati surreal feel.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929236562_db98c1ef07_h.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929242083_d6841ccccd_h.jpg

[Powerful Pete]

Alfa all the way. Those German cars are nice, but not at current prices.

Also, every family meal I can remember included a long winded conversation between Alfisti and Lancia fans. Having owned both I will never forget driving the family Alfa 75 (Milano in the US) with what was a fantastic 2.0 liter non turbo.

Then again I learned to drive on a Lancia Beta Coupé 1.3 - driving a fast car slowly... 😁

[denapista]

Porsche cars are somewhat reliable... They say there's upwards to 70% of the original cars still on the road, and that's not because or reliability. That's because Porsche owners have good mechanics, and cherish keeping service records.

Having "Engine out" service to fix common issues isn't reliable. A Honda is reliable. I know people who won't drive their old 911's over 100mi (Towing distance) because something will break and will ultimately be an expensive fix.

That being said, I'm in the market for a 997.1/2 Carrera 4S manual. I always wanted a 997 GT3 until my best friend bought one. It's such a raw car and hard to live with. For the price he paid for the car, it's not a vehicle you can just hop in and drive daily. The noise, rattles and level of attention of shifting the gearbox makes it a hard $100,000 pill to swallow as it sits in the garage most of the time.

If I can get my hands on a 991.1 GT3 with the 10yr enginer warranty, that would be the ultimate. PDK makes sense in that car. It's so large and PDK makes the car a daily driver

[Gsinill]

I'm trying to deal with my new addiction--watching the auctions on BAT for cars that I can't afford.

Observations:
Porsche prices are insane (except for the 986/993 with the IMS cloud over them.) Even 944s are getting expensive and people are paying real money for 928s!

Alfas seem to be selling cheap--well, comparatively.

So it you were picking a budget project/fun car--would you go down the Porsche or the Alfa rabbit hole?

I happened across a local '86 Alfa Spyder for a measly $600 and it was mostly there, which is how I started thinking about Alfas (again). How had could it be I said to myself. (Actually I have some idea--my brother had three over a number of years that he kindly let me drive and we wrenched on together.)

As far as I know, the IMS issue never affected the 993, only the water-cooled engines of the later 996 and 986 (Boxster) engines had that issue.

I might be biased but Porsche all the way.
There is a reason why 70% of all Porsches built are still running.

[denapista]

IMS affected 997.1 cars as well.

Porsche motors can be rebuilt with ease, for a pretty penny of course. Those cars are meant to be driven and not stored in a garage. I love when I see them with over 80,000mi on the ODO.

[jlwdm]

I purchased a new 1974 Alfa GTV 2000 in 1975 and really enjoyed it for 8+ years. Then I moved to AZ and got rid of it as it did not have a/c.

With Alfa back in the US I decided to get another car two years ago and bought a 2017 Giulia Quadrifoglio. It is just a joy to drive but not what you are looking for.

Two months later I purchased a 2017 Alfa 4C. I did not know about going to track events when I bought it but I have driven 25 track days in the last 18 months. I really enjoy the track and the car has had no issues.

Then last July I purchased a 1973 Alfa GTV 2000 that had been restored.

So I am an Alfa guy all of the way and got rid of my X5 (work car) - nothing but Alfas.

So you know my answer.

Jeff

[grateful]

[QUOTE=denapista;2545260]IMS affected 997.1 cars as well.

987.1/997.1 IMS issues are extremely rare, estimated at less than 1%. I bought a 987.1 CS without a second thought and have had nothing but routine maintenance during my 40k mile ownership.

I also had a 986 without any IMS issues. It is the 2001-2002 model years that were affected the most.

[texbike]

Porsches are to expensive and have been for quite a while and now the prices seem to drop so cant use the "investment excuse" to get one anymore.

I made my choice 2 years ago. I have no regrets, the turbo still makes me smile every time, its like im driving this mad rally car only it has handstiched interior and walnut inserts *** :) Oh and plastic buttons that break and pop out for the complete mazerati surreal feel.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929236562_db98c1ef07_h.jpg


Wow! Cool Shamal!

As far as I know, the IMS issue never affected the 993, only the water-cooled engines of the later 996 and 986 (Boxster) engines had that issue.



Yeah, primarily the IMS impacted the 996 and 997.1 911s and the 986 and 987.1 Boxters (and 987.1 Caymans). Outside of that, bore scoring, AOS, and other fun issues negatively impact these cars as well. Reliable - for the most part, but man, there sure are some significant engineering issues with these cars that should be unacceptable in this day and age.

The Porsche bubble will burst IMO. Prices won't tank, but they will start to come back towards reality....the market can only support so much. Anyway that's the feedback I get from my friends that play in the exotic/ supercar space.

If you want a Porsche and can live with the headlights, a reasonably nice 996 can still be found sub $20k.

Agreed. I'm not sure if prices will burst, but air-cooled prices will definitely flatten on your everyday 911s and may deflate a bit on the cars that aren't really nice. I decided to cash in my AC 911s while the market was up a bit and rolled the dollars into what I felt was an underappreciated classic - an '88 Ferrari Mondial coupe. So far, I like it a lot.

Texbike

[grateful]

my favorite porsche ever is the 2002 gt2. basically a race car street licensable for the street. so much more ridiculously priced was the 2018 gt2 rs. like $450,000. what I see as a game changer is the much anticipated mid engine c8 corvette. from what I have read for $100k-$150 (depending on performance options) you are going to get super car performance. supposed to be released 7/18/19 as a 2020 model. this is actually the most anticipated corvette ever. I just hope it lives up to all the hype.

The current issue of Porsche Panamera has an article on a 996 GT2. Good read.

[mtechnica]

Get a 240Z while you can still afford one - even now they're skyrocketing. Japanese cars are the new collectible gold rush IMO. The time to buy a 911 or 912 was 10+ years ago. As far as alfas, some of them are pretty awesome but you'll lose your shorts on a clapped out spyder and it won't be worth that much in the end comparatively.

[tuscanyswe]

Wow! Cool Shamal!
Texbike


Thanks! its a Ghibli but they can idd look very similar.


Get a 240Z while you can still afford one - even now they're skyrocketing. Japanese cars are the new collectible gold rush IMO. The time to buy a 911 or 912 was 10+ years ago. As far as alfas, some of them are pretty awesome but you'll lose your shorts on a clapped out spyder and it won't be worth that much in the end comparatively.

They are excellent driving cars. I had one and really enjoyd it. Just before i got the Ghibli actually. In uk they were plummeting last l looked. Here in sweden they are also pretty cheap and dont seem to be going up. Just way to many around to be collectible imo. Then again that does not seem to apply to porsches either.

Edit: Ahrmm okay so i kinda red that 240 as 350. ignore my evaluation and i havent had nor driven one either .)

[texbike]

Thanks! its a Ghibli but they can idd look very similar.

Whoops. My bad!

Get a 240Z while you can still afford one - even now they're skyrocketing. Japanese cars are the new collectible gold rush IMO. The time to buy a 911 or 912 was 10+ years ago. As far as alfas, some of them are pretty awesome but you'll lose your shorts on a clapped out spyder and it won't be worth that much in the end comparatively.

I think we may have missed the boat on inexpensive 240Zs:

https://bringatrailer.com/datsun/240z/

Texbike

[paredown]

Whoops--sorry for mixing up the 993 and 996 models...

The last one I really wanted to buy was the earlier 964--and they were cheap for a time, until wiser heads noticed that they were air-cooled and more classically styled. So they are through the roof now...

[Steve in SLO]

I have had Porsches for close to 25+ years now, starting with a 1978 911SC, 85 Carrera, 75 914, a 96 C2S, 73 914-6 GT clone racecar and currently own a 2004 GT3 and 71 911T-RS clone, so I am pretty conversant in Porsche. A few things I have observed over the years: they are relatively simple to maintain, and have been bulletproof in my hands. I drive rapidly but am fairly easy on my cars, so YMMV. Regarding a project car, as with any older sports car, some have lead relatively hard lives so finding a solid platform is a must-esp pre-74 cars which were not galvanized and therefore prone to rust. There is a robust aftermarket parts pipeline for pretty much any year, no matter what the model, and if you go vertically through a product line, especially 911/912 and 914, you can update and retrofit pretty much at will, to include engine/trans/suspension/brake swaps, which lends a lot of flexibility and creativity to a restoration.
I have 2 friends who are Alfistis that remark on how I must lack true committment for owning such easy cars to keep running, which tells me something. That being said, if a really nice GTV ever came my way, I would have a hard time saying no...they look so right.

[Tickdoc]

Muscle car is your answer. Or, at last it was my answer. I was a bmw guy forever, but have finally embraced my Route 66 roots and found bliss in American muscle. Would love a 911 but doubt I will ever take the plunge. Would love an Alfa but I don’t have the mechanical fortitude to keep one running.

[Bflath]

As far as I know, the IMS issue never affected the 993, only the water-cooled engines of the later 996 and 986 (Boxster) engines had that issue.

I might be biased but Porsche all the way.
There is a reason why 70% of all Porsches built are still running.

That is correct. The 993 does not have an IMS. The early 986's with the 2.5 motor have a dual row bearing with a much less than 1% failure rate. It was the The Boxster with the 2.7 and 3.2 motors, and all 911/996 with a single row bearing that was susceptible to IMS bearing failure.
The IMS bearing issue did not go away completely until the introduction of the 987.2 Boxster/Cayman and the 997.2 911
I have an early 986 with the dual row IMS bearing. I don't worry about it at all. I just enjoy driving the car. I will however, have it changed when I'm doing the clutch.

[72gmc]

The Alfa I want is the one I can’t afford: https://www.alfaholics.com/our-cars/completed-builds/gta-r-project-270/alfaholics-gta-r-290-completed/

[Louis]

It's too bad the OP isn't closer to St Louis - I could hook you up with a '73 GTV.

(I need to make room in my garage for motorcycle stuff and I haven't been driving the Alfa as often as it deserves to be so...)

http://advrider.com/index.php?attachments/p1000025-jpg.863331/

[Ken Robb]

It's too bad the OP isn't closer to St Louis - I could hook you up with a '73 GTV.

(I need to make room in my garage for motorcycle stuff and I haven't been driving the Alfa as often as it deserves to be so...)

http://advrider.com/index.php?attachments/p1000025-jpg.863331/

I almost bought one of these in the mid-1970s when they were just interesting used cars. I think it was $3500 and I loved the looks and handling but it wouldn't have won any drag races.

[avalonracing]

Yeah, air-cooled Porsches are overpriced but I did come to appreciate them when an old friend bought a stock 993 and put it on the track. He raced the piss out of it each month for a couple of years without doing anything major to the engine. I made me aware that they really are racecars that people just buy to drive around in traffic at 30mph.

[Steve in SLO]

It's too bad the OP isn't closer to St Louis - I could hook you up with a '73 GTV.

(I need to make room in my garage for motorcycle stuff and I haven't been driving the Alfa as often as it deserves to be so...)

http://advrider.com/index.php?attachments/p1000025-jpg.863331/

That's a beauty, Louis. I, too almost bought one in the late 70s but opted for a 2002 instead.

[slambers3]

So this is an interesting thread as I’ve owned a couple of the cars mentioned:

Had an ‘88 Saab 900 SPG from ‘09-‘11
Owned an ‘86 Alfa Spider Graduate from ‘13-‘14

A few things about the Alfa- at the time I owned the car, parts support was still (surprisingly) relatively strong. Some aspects of the car were pretty robust (body/engine), while others seemed very frail (interior/gauges/transmission). They’re not fast cars nor do they handle particularly well, but mine was an absolute joy to drive top-down in the summer.
I wouldn’t hesitate to own another spider, but would definitely opt for a better-preserved specimen than the one I owned.

[oliver1850]

Dunno, a project is a project, and I've never really acquired a true project car (unless you are counting the old Buick K Car my dad gave me when I was in grad school back when people still had K cars; and that was a different kind of project). The cars you mentioned are pretty different from each other, yes?

Selling my '06 M3 ragtop, I think. Alas.

Buick X car perhaps? I think of K car as a Chrysler product.

[oliver1850]

I decided to cash in my AC 911s while the market was up a bit and rolled the dollars into what I felt was an underappreciated classic - an '88 Ferrari Mondial coupe. So far, I like it a lot.

Texbike

Pretty car and a model I wasn't aware of. I was really tempted by how cheap 308 GT4s were in the mid 1980s, but resisted. I still think it's nicer looking than the 308/328 GTB/GTS.

[JAGI410]

flame suit on....

Miata is always the answer.

Seriously, the dollar to fun ratio is hard to beat. Turbos, LS swaps, Exocet conversions, lift kits, etc. Mod to your hearts content and not have to worry about resale or collect-ability.

[texbike]

Pretty car and a model I wasn't aware of. I was really tempted by how cheap 308 GT4s were in the mid 1980s, but resisted. I still think it's nicer looking than the 308/328 GTB/GTS.

Yeah, they were essentially the successor to the GT4. In typical Ferrari 2+2 fashion, they weren’t as well received as the 2 seat models -especially when they were first introduced as the Mondial 8. The cars went through 4 different iterations with each one improving. Mine is a Mondial 3.2 which is considered the “sweet spot” in the series. It has the same motor and trans as the 328. The cars are fairly simple and have fewer known issues than 911s of the same era. There only 32 3.2 Coupes brought to the US in ‘88.


flame suit on....

Miata is always the answer.

Seriously, the dollar to fun ratio is hard to beat. Turbos, LS swaps, Exocet conversions, lift kits, etc. Mod to your hearts content and not have to worry about resale or collect-ability.

No need for a flame suit. Miatas rock and are definitely the best choice. However, best isn’t always the “right” choice. Archaic and simple has its own charm. ;)

Texbike

[texbike]

It's too bad the OP isn't closer to St Louis - I could hook you up with a '73 GTV.

(I need to make room in my garage for motorcycle stuff and I haven't been driving the Alfa as often as it deserves to be so...)

http://advrider.com/index.php?attachments/p1000025-jpg.863331/

Louis, that is really beautiful! I had a couple of 105 GTVs and they were both great cars.

That's a beauty, Louis. I, too almost bought one in the late 70s but opted for a 2002 instead.

I had several 2002s and they were probably my favorite cars out of all the cars I’ve owned. My first was a ‘71 and is the car that opened my eyes to European cars. Coming from a series of 60s era Fords and Mopars, I was astounded by how agile and fun the cars were. Later, as I moved into Alfa’s, I viewed the 105 GTVs as the “developed” 2002. It had everything that you could possibly want in a 2002 (except the IRS) - twin cam motor, fuel injection, 4 wheel disc brakes, and a 5 spd.

Texbike

[Elefantino]

Don't ask me. I'm biased.

[jlwdm]

flame suit on....

Miata is always the answer.

Seriously, the dollar to fun ratio is hard to beat. Turbos, LS swaps, Exocet conversions, lift kits, etc. Mod to your hearts content and not have to worry about resale or collect-ability.

Mazda is a great, cheap track car, but not always the answer especially for someone asking about Porsches and Alfas.

Jeff

[joosttx]

I saw this bad boy being unloaded in the hood yesterday. Someone is going to have a bitch'in Memorial Day.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47937914833_3b0f300a7a_b.jpg

[choke]

I was really tempted by how cheap 308 GT4s were in the mid 1980s, but resisted. I still think it's nicer looking than the 308/328 GTB/GTS.The 308GT4 is one of my favorite Ferraris.

[Tonger]

I have had Porsches for close to 25+ years now, starting with a 1978 911SC, 85 Carrera, 75 914, a 96 C2S, 73 914-6 GT clone racecar and currently own a 2004 GT3 and 71 911T-RS clone, so I am pretty conversant in Porsche. A few things I have observed over the years: they are relatively simple to maintain, and have been bulletproof in my hands. I drive rapidly but am fairly easy on my cars, so YMMV. Regarding a project car, as with any older sports car, some have lead relatively hard lives so finding a solid platform is a must-esp pre-74 cars which were not galvanized and therefore prone to rust. There is a robust aftermarket parts pipeline for pretty much any year, no matter what the model, and if you go vertically through a product line, especially 911/912 and 914, you can update and retrofit pretty much at will, to include engine/trans/suspension/brake swaps, which lends a lot of flexibility and creativity to a restoration.

I have 2 friends who are Alfistis that remark on how I must lack true committment for owning such easy cars to keep running, which tells me something. That being said, if a really nice GTV ever came my way, I would have a hard time saying no...they look so right.



‘04 GT3 captures the pure essence of Porsche and is the ‘forever’ car. Did you see the article in Total 911?

[jamesdak]

That's a beauty, Louis. I, too almost bought one in the late 70s but opted for a 2002 instead.

Loved my old 2002ti!

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

[jamesdak]

Nah, I want an old SPG like the one I used to own... :)







W.

I can only say WOW!, love these.

[oliver1850]

Yeah, they were essentially the successor to the GT4. In typical Ferrari 2+2 fashion, they weren’t as well received as the 2 seat models -especially when they were first introduced as the Mondial 8. The cars went through 4 different iterations with each one improving. Mine is a Mondial 3.2 which is considered the “sweet spot” in the series. It has the same motor and trans as the 328. The cars are fairly simple and have fewer known issues than 911s of the same era. There only 32 3.2 Coupes brought to the US in ‘88.





A shame that there weren't more. I think it's a nicer looking car than the 308/328 and the GT4. I like the GT4 (except the rear bumper) but at the time I was looking, the main attraction was "cheapest Ferrari available".

[Steve in SLO]

‘04 GT3 captures the pure essence of Porsche and is the ‘forever’ car. Did you see the article in Total 911?

I saw just recently, but I have to say that it’s a lot more fun driving it then reading about it.

[Steve in SLO]

Loved my old 2002ti!

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

Beauty!
Mine actually started out life as a 68 1602 and ended up with a 2002ti motor and five-speed 320i 5 spd transmission.
That was a fun car.
I have a friend who has a 3.0 CSL and a 2002 turbo. What a couple of monsters.

[paredown]

I got totally robbed on the 2002 front--my father-in-law had a pair--a '72 and a '75 (one for the shop, one to drive) that he kept running. About the time that we were moving around a lot, he got rid of one, and then after he passed away, my MIL gave away the second (along with her '84 Audi), just before we moved back to the US--not a word to us. Grrrrr.

Like other posters, I still remember the first 2002 test drive, sitting in the back seat while the sales guy did his personal rally course around the dealership--tossable, great sounds and it stuck like glue. I still remember the Car and Driver review

I honestly can't remember if that was before or after the first Alfa followed us home--to be honest, I spotted it in an impound lot, and made inquiries. My only regret is that my father (who was a really good mechanic) was too busy to coach us on trouble-shooting, and our skills were not at the 'diagnose a poorly running Alfa that has been sitting for god knows how long' level--so eventually we dumped it. (Freaking early '60s Veloce that is selling for a bazillion dollars now!)

Brother #2 had a Fiat 1600 (124 precursor) so that we could get to run and and some fun in it--and eventually it was Alfa #2, a 1600 GTV (looked pretty much like the 1750. By that point, our skills were a little better, and that's the one that we did the head gasket on (my bad--I did a long night drive at speed, and broke it)--with dad's help--I still remember him making a timing chain tensioner out of mild steel with a hacksaw and a file when we couldn't find the part easily.

Oh, and he jigged up and welded the aluminum oil pan back together after we went airborne after hitting a curb--'Go back and get all the pieces' he said. I think part of the same misadventure--we drove down to Portland to pick up a used front suspension, and rebuilt it. He set it up with a protractor and string lines--we took it in, and the shop made exactly one adjustment. And he could tune the dual carbs by ear...

[jamesdak]

Beauty!
Mine actually started out life as a 68 1602 and ended up with a 2002ti motor and five-speed 320i 5 spd transmission.
That was a fun car.
I have a friend who has a 3.0 CSL and a 2002 turbo. What a couple of monsters.

I was at a BMW dealership Saturday buying a 340i. While waiting I out back in the delivery area I spotted a silver 3.0cs in the back lot. Went to check it out and it was beautiful with a lovely burgundy interior. Looked very mint. So wanted to back out of the deal and get that.

[glepore]

I saw this bad boy being unloaded in the hood yesterday. Someone is going to have a bitch'in Memorial Day.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47937914833_3b0f300a7a_b.jpg

Good grief, first the TR and now this. Must be QUITE the hood you reside in.

[texbike]

Loved my old 2002ti!

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/110436221.jpg

Cool '02! Is that a picture of your old car?

Texbike

[joosttx]

Good grief, first the TR and now this. Must be QUITE the hood you reside in.

You should see the Alfa down at the bottom of the hill. I’ll try and take a picture of it today.

[jamesdak]

Cool '02! Is that a picture of your old car?

Texbike

Yep, that's the beast I had so much fun with.

[joosttx]

cool alfa that resides down the street from me.

anyone what model it is??


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47945308198_fd70635180_b.jpg

[maunahaole]

cool alfa that resides down the street from me.

anyone what model it is??


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47945308198_fd70635180_b.jpg

I’d guess either a Guilia or Berlina. I’m no expert on the finer points of these things.

[tuscanyswe]

A 70s Giulia

[Steve in SLO]

Yep. Giulia. My riding buddy in medical school had a red one. Looked great with a rack and a couple of bikes on the roof.
Pure panache, but my 2002 would smoke it.

[Ken Robb]

I'm not sure but isn't "Berlina" the Italian term for sedan and Giulia (Gulia?) a model name used by Alfa so this might be a Giulia Berlinetta.

[Steve in SLO]

In the summer of 1987 I was stationed at Fort Ord and used the body shop there to restore the paint on my 1600 and do some minor rust repair. I also had a local mechanic in Scotts Valley rebuild the motor from 1.6–> 2L Ti specs during that time. My mom lived at the top of the Santa Cruz Hills at the time, so I ripped up to visit her often and I took the opportunity to do my best tough guy with a cool car pose. Then it was back to USC medical school in LA via Hwy 1 from Monterey to LA. That was a cool project.
Unfortunately I had to sell the car two years later when I moved to Hawaii to start my internship. Still miss that thing.

[jamesdak]

^ Sweet!

My love for BMWs hasn't ended. Picked up this 340i with M SPORT and Track Packages Saturday.

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/169251654.jpg

Guess my answer to the OP is neither, LOL!

[C40_guy]

Whatever you buy, have a full PPI done first so you know what you're getting into.

Also, WRT to the german cars...the least expensive to purchase will typically be the most expensive to own. Buy one that's been properly serviced, owned by an enthusiast, with full records.

Spend some time in representative cars...one will light you up and that's the one to buy.

Boxsters, and to a lesser extent, Caymans, are pretty inexpensive, at least relative to air cooled Porsches and 911s. The later cars had the IMS issue solved (around 2009, IIRC). And none of the watercooled 911 turbos have this issue (different engine design).

Don't expect Porsche prices to drop much... you could buy a clean 993, drive it for 5-10 years and probably make money on it.

I was really interested in a 968, but found that the ergonomics just didn't work for me. I sit too low in that car. 911 and Boxster/Cayman don't have that problem for me.

You also need a good, local, private mechanic. That alone may influence your choice. No good indie for Alfa or Porsche? Pick any year Miata. :)

[choke]

Heh....I just thought of something.

I took this pic on my way to Eroica CA in 2016.

http://er16.ciocctoo.com/er16-15.jpg


This was at Eroica CA in 2018.

http://er18.ciocctoo.com/eroica18-1.jpg

[C40_guy]

I was at a BMW dealership Saturday buying a 340i. While waiting I out back in the delivery area I spotted a silver 3.0cs in the back lot. Went to check it out and it was beautiful with a lovely burgundy interior. Looked very mint. So wanted to back out of the deal and get that.

Open a 3.0CS door, lean down and put your head near the door jamb or sill. If you listen carefully, you can hear the tinworm munching their way through the multiple pieces of sheetmetal inside the structure.

Gorgeous cars.

Only for those who never need to balance their checkbook or ask "how much"...

[jamesdak]

Open a 3.0CS door, lean down and put your head near the door jamb or sill. If you listen carefully, you can hear the tinworm munching their way through the multiple pieces of sheetmetal inside the structure.

Gorgeous cars.

Only for those who never need to balance their checkbook or ask "how much"...

LOL, this one looked restored and showed no sign of rust at all. I do know what you are saying though. My 2002 had rust around the gas tank in the trunk, the tire wells, a bit on the rear pillars by the trunk and the rocker panel fell off one winter when I tapped my foot on it as I sat down to get the snow off. Still loved that car, such a blast to drive.

[C40_guy]

LOL, this one looked restored and showed no sign of rust at all. I do know what you are saying though. My 2002 had rust around the gas tank in the trunk, the tire wells, a bit on the rear pillars by the trunk and the rocker panel fell off one winter when I tapped my foot on it as I sat down to get the snow off. Still loved that car, such a blast to drive.


I had a VW Rabbit that wouldn't go up on a lift. Mechanic and I couldn't figure out why the wheels were still on the ground, then we looked inside and noticed that the floorboards had ripped away from the firewall and were the only things moving up.

Yikes.

[thirdgenbird]

Anyone here ever own or drive a 190e 2.3-16?

[Mikej]

I vote Porsche, but not those fancy ones.

[joosttx]

I vote Porsche, but not those fancy ones.

That’s a very fancy one

[cgolvin]

In the summer of 1987 I was stationed at Fort Ord and used the body shop there to restore the paint on my 1600 and do some minor rust repair. I also had a local mechanic in Scotts Valley rebuild the motor from 1.6–> 2L Ti specs during that time. My mom lived at the top of the Santa Cruz Hills at the time, so I ripped up to visit her often and I took the opportunity to do my best tough guy with a cool car pose. Then it was back to USC medical school in LA via Hwy 1 from Monterey to LA. That was a cool project.
Unfortunately I had to sell the car two years later when I moved to Hawaii to start my internship. Still miss that thing.

In 1969 we took a summer vacation to Rome, the dollar was strong against the lire and my dad wanted a new car to replace the '59 356 1600 that he planned to give to my brother when he turned 16 (lucky kid, I got bupkis). He took me with him to an Alfa dealer and I thought he had pulled the trigger on a GTV and expected it to arrive after we returned. Instead what showed up was a '64 SC that he owned for 20 years, finally trading it for a '78 Euro stock 911SC. I put a lot of miles on the 356 and it set me on my own Porsche route, including a '73 S (sold shortly after my first kid was born and replaced with a MBZ 300TD -- not quite the sublime to the ridiculous). Still, a small part of me regrets not getting the GTV, still think those are among the most lovely designs.

Beemer drift from your story…as a grad student in Santa Cruz in 1981 I scraped together the funds to buy a '71 2002. Over a few years I had the Malaga paint redone, seats recovered by Ray's in Watsonville, and engine rebuilt by a really good backyard mechanic in Capitola. He took off all the smog gear and put in a dual Weber and I had big fun throughout the Santa Cruz mountains including some hair-raising runs over 17. Sadly, after I had moved back to LA I was slowing down for a yellow light and suddenly found myself careening toward the curb, then upside down and ultimately back on its wheels pointed in the opposite direction. I'd been hit by a stolen vehicle, "suspects armed and dangerous", and there was not a single piece of intact glass in the car. I loved that car, and it gave its life for me. RIP.

[Ken Robb]

Anyone here ever own or drive a 190e 2.3-16?

I had a student with one at a driving school at Willow Springs Raceway. I drove it for 3 laps to show him the "line" and feel out his car for problems. It was probably a better highway cruiser than an M3 but not as quick. The "dog-leg" shift pattern was good on the track but might have been a PITA in stop/go traffic. Obviously was a 4-door vs. 2-door M3 but the back seat was so cramped as to be only comfy for kids. E30 M3s from that era have gotten very expensive. I don't know if one of these M-Bs would be a cheaper alternative if you wanted something fun from the era. I wonder if M-B Classic makes parts for these as available as parts for older BMWs are?

[thirdgenbird]

I’m wanting to find a car that I can take to shows and different events with the family. Potentially multi-state. I’ve got a thing for 80s euro stuff and the 2.3-16 seems to tick most of the boxes at a fairly reasonable price.

Parts supply is one of my concerns. I haven’t done a lot of homework yet. I would hope they are supporting that platform. It’s pretty easy to argue that it’s more historically significant than the M3. It launched the career of Senna, prompted bmw to make a performance 3 series, and really founded the segment.

Ideally, I would import a Euro version with cloth and no sunroof. I’ve got one located. A US market car would likely be cheaper but not as pure...

[redearedslider5]

OP: i've wanted an early 911 for a few years now but gun to my head, i'd take an alfa. the 911 is iconic and certainly for good reason but in my head, that's also what makes them uninteresting. everyone knows what they are and the prices have gotten quite ridiculous. i find alfa romeo 105/115 to be absolutely beautiful and honestly, the novelty has a lot to do with it. you see 911s all the time, you NEVER see an alfa. perhaps there's mechanical reasoning behind that :) i'll close that with this: i go to my local cars and coffee every month and there's always a bunch of 911s but they never stop my walking. there's occasionally a red giulia though and i always stop to drool for far too long, despite that i've seen it a few times now.

as car things in general go, i'll echo what others have said and say miata. it's cheap to buy, cheap to run, cheap to insure, cheap to fix assuming it'd ever break, and most of all it's fantastic to drive. i've had three and i'm always looking for another one. as someone else said, the aftermarket is virtually unlimited. turbo, ls swaps, suspension options, chassis bracing... you can essentially make it anything you want it to be and it'll be great at it. aside from maybe long distance touring.

for more interesting things, i've found myself enamored with BMWs, particularly 80's era. i currently have a euro market e30 with an s50 swap and an e28 with an ls swap and between the two, they do everything well and are very involving and dramatic to drive. prices of the era have gone up following the insane rise of the e30 m3 but they're still reachable, particularly in comparison to 911s and alfas.

[Tickdoc]

Worked for a guy once who had quite a collection including a first year RS, orange on black. He drove it not frequently but more than I would, and even tracked it. It was amazeballs, and I can't imagine what it is worth today.

Back to the original post though, german cars, Italian bikes.

[donevwil]

911s, and their variants, have always interested me because they fit someone 6' 5" with ease. Not many fun cars can claim that.

Shortly after starting my career ('88) a retiring co-worker was selling everything to buy a sailboat and sail around the world. He had a '70's euro spec 911 Targa he offered me for next to nothing and I passed. In '98 a close friend acquired his first 911 (996) and offered me his 968 at a very fair price, I passed. In '02 he upgraded to a GT-3 and offered me his 996, I passed again. Just not at that place in my life. He added a base 997 commuter to his stable in '04 and when he replaced it with a new Riviera blue GTS in '18 he offered me the 997 for next to nothing. Thought about it seriously, but ultimately still not the right time.

When he offers me the GTS I'll hopefully have the house paid off and be close to retirement.

1697979954

[grateful]

In 1988 I was a college sophomore. A good friend of mine turned 18 and drove his crappy VW Bug home for his birthday.

He comes back on Sunday driving a brand new E30 BMW M3. I didn't even know what that was. That car created an obsession that is unmatched.

It turns out that his Grandfather bought a fair share of NIKE stock in the 60's. At 18 each of his grandchildren had access to their shares.

18 years old, Michael Jordan and Bo Jackson. Tons of NIKE shares. TROUBLE!

[cgolvin]

18 year old with a new M3?
BIG trouble. YUGE!

[stien]

^ Sweet!

My love for BMWs hasn't ended. Picked up this 340i with M SPORT and Track Packages Saturday.


Guess my answer to the OP is neither, LOL!

My brother just bought a 340 and is seriously considering selling his 997.2 C4S because he likes the BMW so much. Of course he tuned it plus exhaust.

[grateful]

Quote from Star Wars:

Who is a bigger fool, the fool or the fool that follows him!

We drove from Seattle to Tacoma in roughly 45 minutes at 2am. Very little traffic but i remember looking at the speedometer and it was pegged at 153mph. I believe that was because of the limiter but that car was more stable than my car at 35mph.

Of course he destroyed it and ended up getting a 911 of some sort. I have since lost contact with him. I am sure that he now has no less than a Bugatti.

For those that are good at math, the grandchildren received 18,000 share at their 18th birthday in 1986. My buddies sister was my girlfriend and was much more conservative (paid for college on NIKE dividends, never touching the principal). She bought an 89 Prelude for her first car.

What is that stock worth today so that I can relax. Surely NIKE has tanked by now.

[jlwdm]

For those that are good at math, the grandchildren received 18,000 share at their 18th birthday in 1986. My buddies sister was my girlfriend and was much more conservative (paid for college on NIKE dividends, never touching the principal). She bought an 89 Prelude for her first car.

What is that stock worth today so that I can relax. Surely NIKE has tanked by now.

If they had not spent any of the stock it would be worth about $89m. But obviously that did not happen. Was probably worth about $270,000 when they received it. I am sure most spent a lot of the $270,000. In 33 years probably most if not all was sold.

Jeff

[jlwdm]

We drove from Seattle to Tacoma in roughly 45 minutes at 2am. Very little traffic but i remember looking at the speedometer and it was pegged at 153mph...

?????
It is only 30 miles. 60 mph would only be 30 minutes.

Jeff

[grateful]

North to South. It was a drive that I made regularly. Trust me, we were going fast. I looked at the speedometer and it read 153.

PS: Thank you for confirming that my story is 100% factual.

[grateful]

My girlfriend at the time never touched the principal. She paid for her education via dividends.

She also left for the weekend and came back with a Honda Prelude.

She was much more conservative than her brother.

If they had not spent any of the stock it would be worth about $89m. But obviously that did not happen. Was probably worth about $270,000 when they received it. I am sure most spent a lot of the $270,000. In 33 years probably most if not all was sold.

Jeff

[palincss]

Observations:
Porsche prices are insane (except for the 986/993 with the IMS cloud over them.) Even 944s are getting expensive and people are paying real money for 928s!

Alfas seem to be selling cheap--well, comparatively.

So it you were picking a budget project/fun car--would you go down the Porsche or the Alfa rabbit hole?


None of the above. Cheap + fun to drive sports car = Miata. AFAIK no rabbit holes there. Not that I'm in any way interested in a car that won't let you carry a bicycle inside, of course.

[Steve in SLO]

Since we are veering off the original topic a bit, how about a 2005–2006 Mini Cooper S? Many examples can be had for $5000-$6000 with lots of life left in them, and they are a great tinkerers car. I’ve had a lot of nice cars, but the Mini’s turn in and ability to transition between tight corners is right up there with the best of them.

[Climb01742]

Owned a few 911s. My '87 was favorite. Simpler, purer, ideal size. But...for absolute driving pleasure in 90% of daily situations, nothing beat my 914. It had so many flaws (mine was pretty beat) but on the road, particularly in the twisties, nothing came close. Wish I'd kept it and restored it. Never gets you the looks 911s do, but the look on_your_face? Priceless.;)

[Steve in SLO]

I loved mine, too. Insanely quick and carried momentum through corners like nothing else. I also liked the David vs Goliath aspect of running with Twin Turbos, Corvettes and Vipers on the track. This little car offended a few of them, I'm sure.
914s are climbing in value and make good project cars, but finding a solid example as a basis is a must. Many have led hard lives and they grow rust.

[Climb01742]

Very nice. Bet it wiped a few smirks off a few faces. 914s really used the laws of physics to their advantage.

[jlwdm]

North to South. It was a drive that I made regularly. Trust me, we were going fast. I looked at the speedometer and it read 153.

PS: Thank you for confirming that my story is 100% factual.

Ha. I am not confirming it is factual.

Jeff

[glepore]

I loved mine, too. Insanely quick and carried momentum through corners like nothing else. I also liked the David vs Goliath aspect of running with Twin Turbos, Corvettes and Vipers on the track. This little car offended a few of them, I'm sure.
914s are climbing in value and make good project cars, but finding a solid example as a basis is a must. Many have led hard lives and they grow rust.

Had a similar teener 6 with a 2.7 on slicks as a hillclimb car. Massive fun.

[Steve in SLO]

Excellent!
Mine was a 2.4S motor built up to 2.7 with E cams and Webers. 1750#. Also massive fun.

[grateful]

I also once made it from Austin to DFW in 30 minutes even with all of the construction in Temple. M3's are incredible.

[texbike]

I also once made it from Austin to DFW in 30 minutes even with all of the construction in Temple. M3's are incredible.

Oh, c'mon now.... Austin to Dallas in 30 minutes? What would that be? 400 mph? Is the M3 that you're referring to a small jet aircraft or perhaps a documented wormhole? ;)

Texbike

[jlwdm]

Oh, c'mon now.... Austin to Dallas in 30 minutes? What would that be? 400 mph? Is the M3 that you're referring to a small jet aircraft or perhaps a documented wormhole? ;)

Texbike

He is just posting nonsense about Seattle to Tacoma and Austin to DFW drives. Not sure the purpose since they are so far from reality. One too fast and one too slow. I gave him the benefit and used Fort Worth as he said DFW. So only 380 mph.

Jeff

[bking]

Porsche.
In '04 I bought an 02 Turbo with 2000 miles on it. Changed out the seats, stereo, did a little engine tuning work, exhaust, suspension etc. For the next 8 years it cranked out 600 hp, 600 ft pounds of torque, good tunes, and really good times spread out over some 110,000 miles of this country from the Mississippi River to the Canadian Northwest and the deserts of the Southwest. And anything that resembled a freeway was not worthy, and using mostly motorcycle websites, advrider.com in particular, we sought out every off the beaten path little ribbon of winding asphalt that went some where we could find. Road car without peer, in my opinion. And it never, not once, missed a beat. Good times. Thank you Porsche for building a car at this level that is meant to be ridden, and ridden long and hard.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-DZqRjF3/0/c484f078/L/IMG_0935zz-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-C4czgJ5/0/c74d2aa8/O/IMG_0147z.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-bMnxHXf/0/9d3d8e71/XL/IMG_2114-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-MGSvpC8/0/6162afa8/L/Day1%20077z-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-xRqF8mc/0/69d2f4a9/L/IMG_0954-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-hd3Vq8Q/0/b1662d71/XL/IMG_1020-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-4SQzcTz/0/42e06df5/O/IMG_2211xz.jpg

[texbike]

He is just posting nonsense about Seattle to Tacoma and Austin to DFW drives. Not sure the purpose since they are so far from reality. One too fast and one too slow. I gave him the benefit and used Fort Worth as he said DFW. So only 380 mph.

Jeff

Ah, gotcha. I missed the context of the statement. Thanks.

Porsche.
In '04 I bought an 02 Turbo with 2000 miles on it. Changed out the seats, stereo, did a little engine tuning work, exhaust, suspension etc. For the next 8 years it cranked out 600 hp, 600 ft pounds of torque, good tunes, and really good times spread out over some 110,000 miles of this country from the Mississippi River to the Canadian Northwest and the deserts of the Southwest. And anything that resembled a freeway was not worthy, and using mostly motorcycle websites, advrider.com in particular, we sought out every off the beaten path little ribbon of winding asphalt that went some where we could find. Road car without peer, in my opinion. And it never, not once, missed a beat. Good times. Thank you Porsche for building a car at this level that is meant to be ridden, and ridden long and hard.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Road-Trip/RoadTrip/i-DZqRjF3/0/c484f078/L/IMG_0935zz-L.jpg

Wow. Sounds like fun! The 996 Turbos are monsters and it sounds like yours was especially so. Great perspective on the cars.

Texbike

[Steve in SLO]

Bking gets the spirit of Porsche.

[William]

Is this wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs








W.

[Tickdoc]

Not exactly relevant to this discussion, but exciting nonetheless:

https://youtu.be/zyYgDtY2AMY

[Vientomas]

Is this wrong?

Yes.

[54ny77]

Heresy, in fact.

Is this wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs








W.

[thwart]

Is this wrong?

Yes.

Meh. 150 mph capability and a 200 mile range.

I'd drive one.

[William]

Is this wrong?

Yes.

Well then don't go to the EV West conversion page...;)

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=cghg4d61t5462fa40g9h6frg06






W.

[Steve in SLO]

I don't think it's wrong, but doing an EV 911 doesn't excite me. Two conversions I've recently seen that are intriguing are an original Mini Cooper, and 914. Karmann Ghias are also a great platform for this .

Example of a Mini:

https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-electric-mini-conversion-is-now-available-to-order-in-the-uk

[William]

I don't think it's wrong, but doing an EV 911 doesn't excite me. Two conversions I've recently seen that are intriguing are an original Mini Cooper, and 914. Karmann Ghias are also a great platform for this .

Example of a Mini:

https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-electric-mini-conversion-is-now-available-to-order-in-the-uk

The EV crew also stated the 911 wasn't the best choice due to what they are fetching dollar-wise these days. The 912 was the better choice alone with all the other cars they have kits for. They may not have the screaming whine of a petrol engine, but they have way more power then they originally had.

The 914 has a special place in my heart, mainly because as a young teen I went on a trip with a family friend who owned one from Washington up into B.C, across through Jasper and Banff, then down into Montana, Idaho, and back through Washington. Lots of great memories from that trip so the 914 has always been in the back of my mind as a possible project vehicle one day. I would consider a conversion like this in that respect.

YMMV of course.:)






W.

[texbike]

Get a 240Z while you can still afford one - even now they're skyrocketing. Japanese cars are the new collectible gold rush IMO.

Check out this auction on BaT for a 240 -

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-datsun-240z-39/ .

It's currently at $110K (with buyer's premium) and still has a few hours to go. It may be one of the best examples out there, but wow!

Texbike

[gngroup]

Porsche. Longhood 911.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190723/a41b2b014c7374194e4c73c307b45729.jpg

[HugoBear]

I have an 87 911 and a 2004 Boxster S.
Even though I’m not really a convertible guy, Boxsters are stupid cheap.Mine had the LN engineering bearing and it’s pretty darn fun to drive for a 10-12k car.
The G50 Porsche’s are great but I think they are marginally declining in value after rising significantly since about 2011.I have only done routine maintenance since 2011 on my 911, with the exception of needing to replace an
Alternator.
I appreciate many cool brands of cars but Porsche’s are much more reliable than BMW, Alfa, etc.
Yes, the Japanese cars like Supras, Z’s, etc. have moved up a ton.

[jamesdak]

I have an 87 911 and a 2004 Boxster S.
Even though I’m not really a convertible guy, Boxsters are stupid cheap.Mine had the LN engineering bearing and it’s pretty darn fun to drive for a 10-12k car.
The G50 Porsche’s are great but I think they are marginally declining in value after rising significantly since about 2011.I have only done routine maintenance since 2011 on my 911, with the exception of needing to replace an
Alternator.
I appreciate many cool brands of cars but Porsche’s are much more reliable than BMW, Alfa, etc.
Yes, the Japanese cars like Supras, Z’s, etc. have moved up a ton.

You know I'm on my third BMW and I'm still waiting for all this "unreliability" people talk about all the time. ;)

[earlofwarwick]

Had a '81 Alfa spider. Was not ready for the upkeep, but still one of my favorite cars of all time.

[paredown]

How about Alfa + bike? Saw this on FB Marketplace today--a custom Alfa moped that was done as a promo for the launch of the new cars:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/384535912174489/

[morrisericd]

Bumping this up for some collective wisdom. I’ve been on the hunt for a low 70’s GTV for a few years now. Unfortunately, as things go, since 2015 since I started (and never pulled the trigger - not really ready cash wise at that point), GTV’s have gone up from the high $20’s for a really nice 1750 to the high $40’s, even into $50,000 for a really, really nice one.

So - I’ve been in, driven hard and really loved a 1970 911S. Unfortunately, that’s $180,000 car, not in my $50,000 price range. Then, yesterday I found and drove a 1977 911S. Beautiful inside and out, perfect interior, original paint, restored engine - all that. I could probably get it for $40,000 or so. I drove it - it drives like the 1970, just a bit less power. Still, fun as hell.

The 1977 911S has been labeled the bastard child of the 70’s Porsche’s. Actually, more like the 1974-1977. Not a “real” S, not an SC, etc. This is all my opinion and what I’ve read - please. No offense meant.

I haven’t driven a GTV and there are none local for me to try. The question is, in my price range should I fly somewhere and try a GTV or be happy with the local 1977 911S? Thoughts about late 70’s 911S’s? There’s also the GTV’s have really increased in value / price over the last 4 years and the late 70’s 911S’s while increasing, I don’t think are at the “top” yet part.

Advice, thoughts, insight, experiences much appreciated.

[Ken Robb]

Bumping this up for some collective wisdom. I’ve been on the hunt for a low 70’s GTV for a few years now. Unfortunately, as things go, since 2015 since I started (and never pulled the trigger - not really ready cash wise at that point), GTV’s have gone up from the high $20’s for a really nice 1750 to the high $40’s, even into $50,000 for a really, really nice one.

So - I’ve been in, driven hard and really loved a 1970 911S. Unfortunately, that’s $180,000 car, not in my $50,000 price range. Then, yesterday I found and drove a 1977 911S. Beautiful inside and out, perfect interior, original paint, restored engine - all that. I could probably get it for $40,000 or so. I drove it - it drives like the 1970, just a bit less power. Still, fun as hell.

The 1977 911S has been labeled the bastard child of the 70’s Porsche’s. Actually, more like the 1974-1977. Not a “real” S, not an SC, etc. This is all my opinion and what I’ve read - please. No offense meant.

I haven’t driven a GTV and there are none local for me to try. The question is, in my price range should I fly somewhere and try a GTV or be happy with the local 1977 911S? Thoughts about late 70’s 911S’s? There’s also the GTV’s have really increased in value / price over the last 4 years and the late 70’s 911S’s while increasing, I don’t think are at the “top” yet part.

Advice, thoughts, insight, experiences much appreciated.
If you want a fun Porsche to drive I'd suggest the newest Cayman that fits your budget. Boxters are good too but I'm not fond of soft-top cars and I much prefer the looks of the Cayman. OTOH I don't know that they will ever be appreciating assets like some of the older cars you mentioned HAVE been. Of course, the popularity and value of "collector" cars wax and wane so I have always been wary about acquiring cars for investment. My good pal is an automotive journalist who has tried go both ways with the BMW Z-8. He has one very low mileage show car for investment and one with 130,000 miles as a frequent driver. The driver has cost him a lot in repairs, maintenance and upgrades but he loves driving it.

[gngroup]

From a collectible and resale standpoint, I’d stay away from the 77 911S. That said, if you like driving it and it fits your budget, go for it! I opted for a 1970 911T. Easier on the wallet than a comparable E or S but still sought after from a collector standpoint and obviously a blast to drive!

[Louis]

Advice, thoughts, insight, experiences much appreciated.

Based on my car and motorcycle buying experiences, I'd say take your time and be sure you get something that matches your resources and expectations. (In this case my relevant experience is several Alfas over the years and an Aprilia moto.)

By resources I primarily mean things like garage space and tools (i.e. lift) available, if you're considering something that will likely require work (or easy-to work with / get to "local expert" if that's the route you're going to take), and by expectations I mean stuff like the type of driving you're thinking of doing with the car and time you'll have available to do the work.

Sometimes it's hard to know all that beforehand (for example, when I bought my GTV I hadn't really thought it all out) especially if you're making a decision with your heart instead of your head.

Good Luck

[peanutgallery]

Porsche => pretty solid dealer base and body of technical knowledge. Good resale values

Alfa => great design. But you don't know what you're getting into. And, I'm a Mopar guy...just sayin'

[buddybikes]

My brother has a 1987? 911 turbo sitting in his barn, hardly used for 10 years (think still runs it enough so things are lubed). Does this model have decent valuation?

[ftf]

My brother has a 1987? 911 turbo sitting in his barn, hardly used for 10 years (think still runs it enough so things are lubed). Does this model have decent valuation?


In good condition, it's worth quite a lot.

[Ken Robb]

My brother has a 1987? 911 turbo sitting in his barn, hardly used for 10 years (think still runs it enough so things are lubed). Does this model have decent valuation?

I think all Porsche turbos demand premium prices on the used market because they were the top performing models at almost any time and because they cost more when new there were fewer sold so demand now exceeds supply.

[paredown]

My brother has a 1987? 911 turbo sitting in his barn, hardly used for 10 years (think still runs it enough so things are lubed). Does this model have decent valuation?

Oh yeah--those '80s 911 Turbos (930) are considered iconic Porsches--in excellent condition it would be worth $70.000-$100,000.

For fun, look at what they have sold for on Bring a Trailer:

https://bringatrailer.com/auctions/results/?search=porsche+911+930+turbo

[Louis]

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/porsche/930

[texbike]

Bumping this up for some collective wisdom. I’ve been on the hunt for a low 70’s GTV for a few years now. Unfortunately, as things go, since 2015 since I started (and never pulled the trigger - not really ready cash wise at that point), GTV’s have gone up from the high $20’s for a really nice 1750 to the high $40’s, even into $50,000 for a really, really nice one.

So - I’ve been in, driven hard and really loved a 1970 911S. Unfortunately, that’s $180,000 car, not in my $50,000 price range. Then, yesterday I found and drove a 1977 911S. Beautiful inside and out, perfect interior, original paint, restored engine - all that. I could probably get it for $40,000 or so. I drove it - it drives like the 1970, just a bit less power. Still, fun as hell.

The 1977 911S has been labeled the bastard child of the 70’s Porsche’s. Actually, more like the 1974-1977. Not a “real” S, not an SC, etc. This is all my opinion and what I’ve read - please. No offense meant.

I haven’t driven a GTV and there are none local for me to try. The question is, in my price range should I fly somewhere and try a GTV or be happy with the local 1977 911S? Thoughts about late 70’s 911S’s? There’s also the GTV’s have really increased in value / price over the last 4 years and the late 70’s 911S’s while increasing, I don’t think are at the “top” yet part.

Advice, thoughts, insight, experiences much appreciated.

I've had a couple of 105 GTVs and several, old air-cooled 911s. The 911s have better build quality and a much more developed support base - especially if you want to modify the cars. They also have an incredible amount of update/backdate possibilities and potential mods to make them fly. The Alfas do as well, but not nearly to the degree that 911s do. That being said, as much as I like 911s, I liked my 105 GTVs more. They were slower, didn't handle as well, but I liked the directness of their shifting, the driving experience, and the character of the cars. Plus, I really like the way that twin cam motor looked with the Spica injection on it. Cool machines!

As for a '77 911, I wouldn't be hesitant to buy one compared to other years of 911s. For a long time the mid year cars (74-77) were the bastard children of the air-cooled cars. However, they've really come into their own in the last few years. Their pricing is close to that of comparable SCs and 80s Carreras. I really like the narrow bodies and polished trim of that era. Plus it's much easier to find a stripped down version with roll-up windows, no sunroof, and pop-out rear windows (increases flow thru ventilation). The 2.7 motors were known to overheat and pull head studs from the motor case. It was due to the emissions controls that they were using in conjunction with the case and stud materials. Most of their issues have already been sorted over the years. Typical upgrades that one should look for on those motors are hydraulic timing chain tensioners, an 11 blade fan, and an upgraded oil cooler. Outside of the 2.7 motor issue, the cars have no real weaknesses beyond what your typical air-cooled 911 had. You should be able to find a nice one within your budget. I'd suggest joining the Pelican and Rennlist forums if you haven't already as well as PCA. The Samba is another good place to keep an eye out.

Good luck with your search!

Texbike

[54ny77]

oh my.

if in good condition, could be worth a lot. north of $100k.

or not. :bike:

My brother has a 1987? 911 turbo sitting in his barn, hardly used for 10 years (think still runs it enough so things are lubed). Does this model have decent valuation?

[Ken Robb]

I've had a couple of 105 GTVs and several, old air-cooled 911s. The 911s have better build quality and a much more developed support base - especially if you want to modify the cars. They also have an incredible amount of update/backdate possibilities and potential mods to make them fly. The Alfas do as well, but not nearly to the degree that 911s do. That being said, as much as I like 911s, I liked my 105 GTVs more. They were slower, didn't handle as well, but I liked the directness of their shifting, the driving experience, and the character of the cars. Plus, I really like the way that twin cam motor looked with the Spica injection on it. Cool machines!

As for a '77 911, I wouldn't be hesitant to buy one compared to other years of 911s. For a long time the mid year cars (74-77) were the bastard children of the air-cooled cars. However, they've really come into their own in the last few years. Their pricing is close to that of comparable SCs and 80s Carreras. I really like the narrow bodies and polished trim of that era. Plus it's much easier to find a stripped down version with roll-up windows, no sunroof, and pop-out rear windows (increases flow thru ventilation). The 2.7 motors were known to overheat and pull head studs from the motor case. It was due to the emissions controls that they were using in conjunction with the case and stud materials. Most of their issues have already been sorted over the years. Typical upgrades that one should look for on those motors are hydraulic timing chain tensioners, an 11 blade fan, and an upgraded oil cooler. Outside of the 2.7 motor issue, the cars have no real weaknesses beyond what your typical air-cooled 911 had. You should be able to find a nice one within your budget. I'd suggest joining the Pelican and Rennlist forums if you haven't already as well as PCA. The Samba is another good place to keep an eye out.

Good luck with your search!

Texbike
One other upgrade I'd look for on 1974-77 911 would be inserts (steel?) in the block for the head studs to screw into to help prevent them pulling out as noted by Texbike. Porsche, BMW and M-B all tried to avoid needing catalytic converters and unleaded gas by using thermal reactors which were like afterburners in the exhaust manifolds. Unfortunately the heat they generated caused cracked heads and or manifolds in many cars with those systems so I think they all went to catalytic converters by the 1978 model year.

[morrisericd]

Great collective wisdom!

The particular car I'm after has been serviced by the selling dealer (consignment) since the mid-90's and I know the history of the car going back before that. I know all of the typical issues have been taken care of and that the previous owner(s) has taken really good care of it.

I have a place to store it and some mechanical aptitude along with a neighbor that restores cars - I'm really looking forward to some basic wrenching.

The journey continues - hopefully I can get something sorted out this week.

[Steve in SLO]

One other upgrade I'd look for on 1974-77 911 would be inserts (steel?) in the block for the head studs to screw into to help prevent them pulling out.
Those are called case savers, FYI.

[SeanScott]

My friend's father bought this and let me take it for a drive. It was pretty amazing the amount of grip and acceleration. I've never heard a V6 sound like this. I was considering leasing a regular Giulia but I just don't think it would be that exciting with out a stick. My wife looked at a Stelvio as a family crossover but it was too small for all the stuff and kids we haul with us.

[SeanScott]

However, the craziest most functional vehicle I have driven is this
e63. Absolute animal scary fast, makes crazy sounds, takes the twisties fantastic and could carry a family and belongings comfortably. I would get one if I had the money.

[buddybikes]

Just heard my my sister, brother keeps his porsche in a barn area, there are ferile cats around. He found an 8 week old kitten in the car (which has been subsequently been rescued and given to my sister.

I don't understand...

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

However, the craziest most functional vehicle I have driven is this
e63. Absolute animal scary fast, makes crazy sounds, takes the twisties fantastic and could carry a family and belongings comfortably. I would get one if I had the money.

Have always wanted one of those. Up to over 600HP for 2019. And over $100K. Agree, if I had the money...………….

[paredown]

Just heard my my sister, brother keeps his porsche in a barn area, there are ferile cats around. He found an 8 week old kitten in the car (which has been subsequently been rescued and given to my sister.

I don't understand...

One day we'll be reading about the "barn find" that your brother's Porsche turned into--how some old git just left it in the barn for kittens to nest in.

True confession--I used to be so critical of old guys surrounded by projects--and now I are one. Getaroundtoit--that's a time frame that can get away from a person....

[Lionel]

Porsche or Alfa ..... Porsche.

I've lusted after a 911 since I was 18. Almost bought one at 24 in France to replace a 205GTI :) I did not. Then life wife kids, got in the way for about 25 years.

Finally bought a 2017 PDK Carrera three years ago. Incredible car. But I recently "upgraded" to what I consider the best car ever. 2019 GT3 touring. 6speed manual gear box, 4L 500hp naturally aspirated flat 6, 9000rpm red line.

It's my daily driver in the bay area and I intend to drive it until I can't get in and out of it any more (full carbon buckets :eek:).

https://i.imgur.com/BwYfiX9.jpg

[SeanScott]

Lionel - that is a ridiculously awesome gt3 -
Mad props for getting it with the 6speed - proper!

[Lionel]

Lionel - that is a ridiculously awesome gt3 -
Mad props for getting it with the 6speed - proper!

Thanks. This car makes me feel like a kid at Christmas every time I drive it. Even taking the long (sometimes very long) way to the office ;)

[sevencyclist]

Enjoy your ride Lionel!

I know it's crazy, but I have actually passed on MTB a couple of times and gone hiking after getting up to the mountains with the Cayman because of the fun on the way there and back.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48351061307_04b2edb6ea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gEBQ14)2019-06-23 09.52.19 (https://flic.kr/p/2gEBQ14) by sevencyclist (https://www.flickr.com/photos/38629387@N08/), on Flickr

[Ken Robb]

Enjoy your ride Lionel!

I know it's crazy, but I have actually passed on MTB a couple of times and gone hiking after getting up to the mountains with the Cayman because of the fun on the way there and back.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48351061307_04b2edb6ea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gEBQ14)2019-06-23 09.52.19 (https://flic.kr/p/2gEBQ14) by sevencyclist (https://www.flickr.com/photos/38629387@N08/), on Flickr

I see you have your "NOT ME MR. CHIPS" plate surround frame.:rolleyes:

[superbowlpats]

When i sometimes buy a lottery ticket when the pot is big, I daydream of heading to Sloan Cars to buy a few::)

http://www.sloanmotorcars.com/

[Ozz]

Thanks. This car makes me feel like a kid at Christmas every time I drive it. Even taking the long (sometimes very long) way to the office ;)

I hope you take it to a track too.....:cool:

[PeregrineA1]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190723/dd32da798c21cee00810f247508ebc72.jpg Porsche guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve in SLO]

Now there ya go. Deets, please.
Also see post #88 to see where I’m coming from.

[Lionel]

Enjoy your ride Lionel!

I know it's crazy, but I have actually passed on MTB a couple of times and gone hiking after getting up to the mountains with the Cayman because of the fun on the way there and back.



I see exactly what you mean !

[dimitris77]

I would go with Alfa as Porsches seem to be very expensive these days. You can use the price difference to buy more bikes. :hello:

[54ny77]

brown laxative?

ewwwwwwwww..........

:bike:

Enjoy your ride Lionel!

I know it's crazy, but I have actually passed on MTB a couple of times and gone hiking after getting up to the mountains with the Cayman because of the fun on the way there and back.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48351061307_04b2edb6ea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gEBQ14)2019-06-23 09.52.19 (https://flic.kr/p/2gEBQ14) by sevencyclist (https://www.flickr.com/photos/38629387@N08/), on Flickr

[Louis]

brown laxative?

ewwwwwwwww..........


Not quite as eye-catching as this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o2X_XNdmWws/hqdefault.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

I ended up buying a 190e. Not a 2.3-16 but a 2.6. Certainly not a performance car, but it fits a baby seat nicely, has great AC, runs down the highway beautifully, and my wife and I both enjoy taking it places. I’ve also decided that I prefer the late 190e bodywork over the 2.3-16. It’s a bit less fussy and has cleaner lines.

If I had the space, I think I would own a collection of 190e and 944 variants...

[tuscanyswe]

I ended up buying a 190e. Not a 2.3-16 but a 2.6. Certainly not a performance car, but it fits a baby seat nicely, has great AC, runs down the highway beautifully, and my wife and I both enjoy taking it places. I’ve also decided that I prefer the late 190e bodywork over the 2.3-16. It’s a bit less fussy and has cleaner lines.

If I had the space, I think I would own a collection of 190e and 944 variants...

Thats a nice looking car!

[thirdgenbird]

Thats a nice looking car!

Thanks!

I think the w201 is one of the better looking sedans out there. This one is stock outside of the 40mm H&R lowering springs and some custom offset fifteen52 wheels.

[SeanScott]

I'm a BMW guy however I have been trying to get my first 996. Just missed out on one with the x51 package
Also, if they were not so damn expensive I would gladly buy a old GTV or stepnose

https://i.imgur.com/d4mQWVp.jpg

[andeww]

that 190e is totally my style! Love it
my lazy butt would not be able to clean those wheels well :eek:

[Steve in SLO]

How did this turn into a Chevy/MB/BMW thread???

[SeanScott]

Because most car people like Porsches, Alfas and many other makes.
I guess if this is a purist thread all the other makes can be deleted. I personally like seeing and driving all kinds of stuff.

[Steve in SLO]

I’m with you. I just thought it was funny to see 3 non-Porsche/Alfas on the same page. Especially the Chevy.

[paredown]

It's all good--as long as the car has something that sets it apart from the appliances that most cars have become....

I'm down the rabbit hole now though--I've been seeing bargain Alfa 164s (the last ones sold before Alfa fled these shores in the '90s) because they are (a) cool, and (b) cheap and (c) hard to work on (which might explain (b).:)

Still to much work left on the house to be really serious, but it is fun to dream...

[morrisericd]

After looking and driving lots of cars (more looking than driving), I decided a 1978 SC was the car for me. Still "affordable" with a great motor and still some of the old school look I like about the long hoods (chrome trim especially). I have this one on the way - a 1978 SC with 50,000 miles! Not crazy about the whale tail, but love the color - especially the interior. I should have it Tuesday!

[Steve in SLO]

Nice SC. If not the fastest, they are really good and solid cars. They are entertaining and involving to drive, and the feedback through the steering wheel is superb. Do you know if it is Muskatbraun or Mocha brown?
The tail looks good on this car, especially since they put the turbo lip in front to balance it out. It’s relatively easy to pull that tail off and have your rear deck lid patched and sprayed. Also saves about 40 pounds on the heavy end of the car and improves handling. These cars are tail happy and the added weight back there only makes it worse.

[SeanScott]

morrisericd - nice find! I wonder how it would look with a ducktail?

[tuscanyswe]

After looking and driving lots of cars (more looking than driving), I decided a 1978 SC was the car for me. Still "affordable" with a great motor and still some of the old school look I like about the long hoods (chrome trim especially). I have this one on the way - a 1978 SC with 50,000 miles! Not crazy about the whale tail, but love the color - especially the interior. I should have it Tuesday!

That is super nice, congrats! :banana:
I would also like to see it with a smaller ducktail ideally.

[Steve in SLO]

Before you do what I told you to do, better make sure it did not come with the tail from the factory as part of an aerokit. If so, it would be better store the lid/tail and source another decklid and paint to match.
For those wondering about a Ducktail:

[SeanScott]

Ugh, beautiful. One vote for ducktail

[Steve in SLO]

@seanscott, is that an M1 nose as your icon?

[SeanScott]

Yes! Andy Warhol painting it with a brush. I've seen it in person pretty neat. I love the art car program.

[thirdgenbird]

Ugh, beautiful. One vote for ducktail

Vote 2

[Steve in SLO]

Yes! Andy Warhol painting it with a brush. I've seen it in person pretty neat. I love the art car program.

My personal favs are the Frank Stella and Alexander Calder 3.0 CSLs

[Bflath]

After looking and driving lots of cars (more looking than driving), I decided a 1978 SC was the car for me. Still "affordable" with a great motor and still some of the old school look I like about the long hoods (chrome trim especially). I have this one on the way - a 1978 SC with 50,000 miles! Not crazy about the whale tail, but love the color - especially the interior. I should have it Tuesday!

I followed this one on Bring A Trailer.
Nicely done. You're going to love it!

[morrisericd]

Thanks!

Mocha Brown!

That duck tail looks pretty sweet. I'm definitely going to keep the hood / tail intact and either sell or store it. I was going to go regular hatch, but your duck tail is making me rethink that. Looking forward to its arrival on Tuesday!

[Gsinill]

Thanks!

Mocha Brown!

That duck tail looks pretty sweet. I'm definitely going to keep the hood / tail intact and either sell or store it. I was going to go regular hatch, but your duck tail is making me rethink that. Looking forward to its arrival on Tuesday!

Don't. It will greatly impact the value of your car.

[SeanScott]

I disagree. In the P car world people can do what they want.
Safari style
WRB
backdate
restomod
hotrod
ect ect ect.
In many cases it oddly adds value to the car. It is what I love about the 911 community, they are not affraid to customize their cars.

Just don't do a slantnose widebody conversion unless you are going to Radwood.

[Gsinill]

I disagree. In the P car world people can do what they want.
Safari style
WRB
backdate
restomod
hotrod
ect ect ect.
In many cases it oddly adds value to the car. It is what I love about the 911 community, they are not affraid to customize their cars.

Just don't do a slantnose widebody conversion unless you are going to Radwood.

Well, let's agree to disagree ;)

We are not talking a Singer style retro rebuild...
The OP has a pristine, un-molested, one owner low mileage 911 and despite the current slow down, the recent crazy trend of appreciation especially for the air cooled models will most likely continue at some point.
The more sought after real collector cars (which this is IMHO) become the more important it is to have them as close to original as possible, maybe with the exception of American hotrods which I know nothing about.

Nothing wrong with adding a ducktail as long as the car can be brought back to factory delivery, i.e. including the spoilers that are listed in the original sticker.
If I had just paid $50K for this beautiful car, why would I try to make a grand on the whale tail, risking major regret down the road?
Just put it in storage...

You would have to pry the VIN matching split grill engine cover of my 993 out of my cold, dead hands...

[morrisericd]

If I ever did swap out the whale tail, I would buy a standard or duck tail and have it painted and put the whale in storage. Best of both worlds!

I'll tell my wife you think I paid $50,000! Makes me seem even smarter!

Edit: you're not far off, once I factor in BAT fees, shipping and State taxes. I won't remind her about those!

I agree with your Porsche "value" curve. I've been watching the market blow the pre-74's out of this world, the middle 70's and early SC's seem like bargains. One of the reasons I didn't buy a GTV is those have really skyrocketed in the last 4-5 years. I don't want to be on the top of the curve. In the end, it's not really an investment, just something I've always wanted and will drive the crap out of. Already booked my first car rally. I've been to a couple of them, in friend's cars. Terrific fun to go roaring around the countryside in a train of older sports cars!

[SeanScott]

Gsinill - I agree with the both of us. You have a good point. A car this original probably shouldn't be messed with. However I doubt if he kept the whale in the garage and put a new decklid on it would greatly impact the value of the car.
I probably couldn't be responsible for a car or a bike that I couldn't add personal touches to.

Onward, a mix of two of my favorite things!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkX3KBVzT58

[r_mutt]

Did anyone happen to see this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Alfa-Romeo-Callaway-GTV6-/273963739169?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=7TgN8Hfhk1foZwUCy8vtP8lrDf8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


50K and it didn't meet the reserve!

I wish it were mine. I had a GTV6 in the early 90's and it was still by far my favorite car. That V6 was so sweet.

[texbike]

After looking and driving lots of cars (more looking than driving), I decided a 1978 SC was the car for me. Still "affordable" with a great motor and still some of the old school look I like about the long hoods (chrome trim especially). I have this one on the way - a 1978 SC with 50,000 miles! Not crazy about the whale tail, but love the color - especially the interior. I should have it Tuesday!

Oh, wow! Congratulations! That is a beautiful car and the '78 SCs are considered to be a bit stronger than the later cars. Definitely keep the tail! It's a rare rubber version that was only available for a couple of years. Decklids are easy to find and have sprayed if you would like to run one without the tail. It's a common thing to do.

Oh, and be sure to check out the Pelican Parts forum if you haven't already. There's a wealth of information there and quite a few interesting builds going on at any given time.

Congrats again! I hope that you truly enjoy the car.

Texbike

[texbike]

Did anyone happen to see this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Alfa-Romeo-Callaway-GTV6-/273963739169?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=7TgN8Hfhk1foZwUCy8vtP8lrDf8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


50K and it didn't meet the reserve!

I wish it were mine. I had a GTV6 in the early 90's and it was still by far my favorite car. That V6 was so sweet.

A Callaway GTV6 is one of Alfa's halo cars from that era. I had several GTV6s in the 90s and always lusted for a Callaway.

Texbike

[r_mutt]

A Callaway GTV6 is one of Alfa's halo cars from that era. I had several GTV6s in the 90s and always lusted for a Callaway.

Texbike

Yeah- It was a USA only car as well- done in Old Lyme, CT at the Callaway shop. What ever happened to Callaway?

[PeregrineA1]

Now there ya go. Deets, please.

Also see post #88 to see where I’m coming from.



It’s a 74 with 2.2 911E engine, PMO carbs, SC front suspension and brakes, /6 rear suspension and brakes. 16x7 Fuchs with 205/50’s. Super fun, especially compared to the 1.7 I had in the mid-80’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve in SLO]

I bet that winds up nicely...I sure miss mine.

[merckxman]

My 1979 SC.

[texbike]

My 1979 SC.

Beautiful! I had this one (an '86 3.2) until earlier this year...

Texbike

[merckxman]

Beautiful. I bought mine from a friend in 1981. It has been an amazingly reliable car.
Beautiful! I had this one (an '86 3.2) until earlier this year...

Texbike

[Vientomas]

Aero mirror position ;)

[texbike]

Aero mirror position ;)

^LOL! I hadn't noticed that in the picture. ;) Folded for tighter parking in the garage...

[MrCannonCam]

I'm trying to deal with my new addiction--watching the auctions on BAT for cars that I can't afford.

Observations:
Porsche prices are insane (except for the 986/993 with the IMS cloud over them.) Even 944s are getting expensive and people are paying real money for 928s!

Alfas seem to be selling cheap--well, comparatively.

So it you were picking a budget project/fun car--would you go down the Porsche or the Alfa rabbit hole?

I happened across a local '86 Alfa Spyder for a measly $600 and it was mostly there, which is how I started thinking about Alfas (again). How had could it be I said to myself. (Actually I have some idea--my brother had three over a number of years that he kindly let me drive and we wrenched on together.)

I've been looking for a 'toy' for the past year and as with anything else I do way too much research which leads to months of going back and forth. I have a 15 VW Golf TDI that I purchased as new old stock in 2017 when VW got the green light to sell them and while it's super efficient and practical the 'fix' really made the car gutless. Came with a 168k mile warranty (thanks dieselgate!) and I just can't justify playing Russian roulette with a tune voiding that so this is a great reason to just buy a fun second car! Have always been a german car guy and the 986 Boxster has always been interesting due to the low cost of entry.

After doing months of research, talking to friends who have/still work for Porsche/know Porsche techs who I have talked to etc I have settled on looking for a 1997-1999 Boxster. Among the reasons below it fits what I'm looking for out of a weekend/fun car and gives me plenty of budget room for upkeep and any surprises. The S2000 was on my list but the asking prices are astronomical, and the Z3 just doesn't seem to be on the same playing field. I had a Miata years ago and it was neat to drive but very slow and I couldn't shake the 'old man' or 'girls car' tags so that's out as well. I've been very curious of owning a mid-engine vehicle so to the 986 we go...

Through the research and conversations I've had spanning these months it seems the IMS bearing issue as far as the 986 is concerned (I know the 996 had issues with it as well) is really in the 2000-2005 range. Between 97-99 Porsche used a dual row IMS bearing on the 2.5 which at least from my research/convos was far more reliable than the single row that replaced it from 00-05 (the problem children). The tech's I spoke with said they hadn't heard but a handful of the first gen 2.5 engines with the IMS issue and never personally saw any. This makes shopping limited to the less powerful 2.5 engine which I am ok with as the 97-99 model years can be had for a bargain. They have the reputation outside of the IMS bearing of really being pretty low upkeep and quite reliable all and all for what they are.

An 09+ 997 Cayman is what I hope to own down the road. Have read and heard of just great things all around.

[grateful]

What are you driving today?

[HugoBear]

I've been looking for a 'toy' for the past year and as with anything else I do way too much research which leads to months of going back and forth. I have a 15 VW Golf TDI that I purchased as new old stock in 2017 when VW got the green light to sell them and while it's super efficient and practical the 'fix' really made the car gutless. Came with a 168k mile warranty (thanks dieselgate!) and I just can't justify playing Russian roulette with a tune voiding that so this is a great reason to just buy a fun second car! Have always been a german car guy and the 986 Boxster has always been interesting due to the low cost of entry.

After doing months of research, talking to friends who have/still work for Porsche/know Porsche techs who I have talked to etc I have settled on looking for a 1997-1999 Boxster. Among the reasons below it fits what I'm looking for out of a weekend/fun car and gives me plenty of budget room for upkeep and any surprises. The S2000 was on my list but the asking prices are astronomical, and the Z3 just doesn't seem to be on the same playing field. I had a Miata years ago and it was neat to drive but very slow and I couldn't shake the 'old man' or 'girls car' tags so that's out as well. I've been very curious of owning a mid-engine vehicle so to the 986 we go...

Through the research and conversations I've had spanning these months it seems the IMS bearing issue as far as the 986 is concerned (I know the 996 had issues with it as well) is really in the 2000-2005 range. Between 97-99 Porsche used a dual row IMS bearing on the 2.5 which at least from my research/convos was far more reliable than the single row that replaced it from 00-05 (the problem children). The tech's I spoke with said they hadn't heard but a handful of the first gen 2.5 engines with the IMS issue and never personally saw any. This makes shopping limited to the less powerful 2.5 engine which I am ok with as the 97-99 model years can be had for a bargain. They have the reputation outside of the IMS bearing of really being pretty low upkeep and quite reliable all and all for what they are.

An 09+ 997 Cayman is what I hope to own down the road. Have read and heard of just great things all around.

2009 Caymans are great.
996 if they have the IMS bearing upgrade can be great
I have a 2004 Boxster S with the IMS upgrade and it has been great. Almost more fun to drive than my 87 911. I never really wanted a Boxster. I have always loved the first generation Cayman but the only way to be assured of non IMS or oil starvation issues is to get a 2009+
The failure rate for the first gen Cayman is very low but it is a very bad day if it does happen. I have seen two of them grenade at our local track, not due to IMS though, more so to oil starvation.

[texbike]

I've been looking for a 'toy' for the past year and as with anything else I do way too much research which leads to months of going back and forth. I have a 15 VW Golf TDI that I purchased as new old stock in 2017 when VW got the green light to sell them and while it's super efficient and practical the 'fix' really made the car gutless. Came with a 168k mile warranty (thanks dieselgate!) and I just can't justify playing Russian roulette with a tune voiding that so this is a great reason to just buy a fun second car! Have always been a german car guy and the 986 Boxster has always been interesting due to the low cost of entry.

After doing months of research, talking to friends who have/still work for Porsche/know Porsche techs who I have talked to etc I have settled on looking for a 1997-1999 Boxster. Among the reasons below it fits what I'm looking for out of a weekend/fun car and gives me plenty of budget room for upkeep and any surprises. The S2000 was on my list but the asking prices are astronomical, and the Z3 just doesn't seem to be on the same playing field. I had a Miata years ago and it was neat to drive but very slow and I couldn't shake the 'old man' or 'girls car' tags so that's out as well. I've been very curious of owning a mid-engine vehicle so to the 986 we go...

Through the research and conversations I've had spanning these months it seems the IMS bearing issue as far as the 986 is concerned (I know the 996 had issues with it as well) is really in the 2000-2005 range. Between 97-99 Porsche used a dual row IMS bearing on the 2.5 which at least from my research/convos was far more reliable than the single row that replaced it from 00-05 (the problem children). The tech's I spoke with said they hadn't heard but a handful of the first gen 2.5 engines with the IMS issue and never personally saw any. This makes shopping limited to the less powerful 2.5 engine which I am ok with as the 97-99 model years can be had for a bargain. They have the reputation outside of the IMS bearing of really being pretty low upkeep and quite reliable all and all for what they are.

An 09+ 997 Cayman is what I hope to own down the road. Have read and heard of just great things all around.

I drove a friend's '98 Boxster this past weekend. It's not fast, but definitely fun to drive. The 986 styling is aging well - especially in the color of his car (pastel yellow). I've avoided them for years due to the IMS/AOS/Dchunk issues, but have to admit - I REALLY liked his car. It's just such a simple and uncluttered design. The fender lines are great, the motor sounds fantastic, and they handle nicely without beating you up. Cool machines - especially for the price.


What are you driving today?

I replaced it with this...