Is Amsterdam really a cycling paradise?

[fiamme red]

https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2019/05/06/Cycling-Vancouver-Vs-Amsterdam/

“Unless we’re willing to study the Dutch and other European transportation systems, and to pay the price of emulating them, no one in a Vancouver bakery is likely to see traffic moving as smoothly and cleanly as it routinely does on Albert Cuypstraat and countless other Amsterdam streets,” Kilian concludes.

Though that is the dominant narrative, it’s not the whole story. Biking in Amsterdam is anarchy, and the price of emulating the Dutch way is to embrace a level of chaos that Vancouver never could or should.

Dutch cycling culture is built on more than smooth bike lanes and giving two-wheelers to two-year-olds — it requires giving cyclists total dominance on the roads. Pedestrians are checking left-right-left because if they don’t, they’ll be run over by a bike...

[weisan]

The Dutch never call their country a cycling paradise, we did.

[fmradio516]

I was just there two weeks ago. There are bikes EVERYWHERE. but I wouldnt call it a paradise.

[oldpotatoe]

Sent this
https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2019/05/06/Cycling-Vancouver-Vs-Amsterdam/

To my friend who lives in the Netherlands..I'll let ya know what he says.
The Dutch never call their country a cycling paradise, we did.

:eek:

[Spaghetti Legs]

The Dutch may have the same concerns walking around an American city, except they’d be getting run over by cars.

I choose bike mayhem.

[joosttx]

The Dutch never call their country a cycling paradise, we did.

This.

[martl]

Depends on where you're coming from and what defines "paradise" for you. If you're coming from where there is no bike culture, very few utilitarian riders, Amsterdam may seem heavenly. If you are aming for the optimum, it may not be - the infra is aged (wouldn't be built the same way if it was built today), the accident figures aren't as low as they should be given the # of cyclists, and it isn't super-pleasant for pedestrians, as you noticed. Also, car ownership and km travelled by car are actually on the rise in NL.
So, is it good? yep, is it paradise? maybe closer to it than other cities, but not there yet.

[oldpotatoe]

From my Dutch friend.
Biking in Amsterdam is organized chaos. It's a flow and you must move
with it.
Google for books about (amsterdam) bike culture by Pete Jordan. There's
also a youtube movie by him called "Dutch bike culture".

[marsh]

It's a paradise - for scrap metal
https://live.staticflickr.com/32/62148126_d0156a9637_z.jpg

I didn't find it any more chaotic than walking downtown Chicago after work.
Don't know if it should be the model for big city cycling, but I sure did enjoy the bike lanes and separate traffic lights for bikes and pedestrians.

[Safepants]

From my Dutch friend.

I describe it as a school of fish. Everybody just flows around hazards together.
It's the best use of the bell I've seen, nobody rings when having to pass someone on a path, the bell only rings for things which are against the norm like pedestrians in a bike path etc.

My city is obsessed with making cyclists ring their bells to pass anyone on a multiuse path, to the point of giving bylaw infraction tickets. If someone has huge headphones on, no amount of my bell ringing will help. It's just an infrastructure problem with shared space. If you have separate bike/walking/driving space you eliminate the hazards.

[bicycletricycle]

I thought it was fun when I was there.

[paredown]

I still remember the bawling out I received from a fairly outspoken middle-aged woman cyclist when I misunderstood the rules of the road for car vs bicycle and did it wrong while driving in Amsterdam.:eek:

I guess the good thing is--if you get clipped by a bicycle as a pedestrian you have a better chance of not sustaining serious injury...

[cribbit]

Pedestrians are checking left-right-left because if they don’t, they’ll be run over by a bike...

Like how in the US they have to do so looking for cars - which are far more likely to kill them and come at higher speeds which requires checking a further distance?

[bikinchris]

One thing I have said before: The Dutch don't really have a "bike culture" as we would think of it. They don't worship bikes anything like the people on this board do. Just like your average American doesn't worship cars. The Dutch just use bicycles because it makes the most sense for them. Where there are population centers, it is very dense and frankly there would be no room for parking or even buildings if they tried to build a road system like in the USA to accommodate the number of daily users like we do here.

That being said, I have done extensive touring there with my wife on several occasions and the system they have works just fine. But inside bigger cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag, etc.) it can be kind of hectic.

[alessandro]

I went to A-dam for a week a couple of summers ago and thought it was fantastic. Sure, you had to watch where you were going, but it's not hard to figure out. On most streets, there is:
-Sidewalk for pedestrians
-One-way bike path for bikes
-Road for cars
-In the center, canal or tramway
-On the other side, repeat in the opposite direction.

I only rented a bike for an afternoon--I was with my family, and we mostly walked everywhere.

I didn't see any crashes. What really impressed me was how seamlessly people on bikes merged and meshed, riding in street clothes, often with one hand (talking on the phone, or holding a bottle of wine/flowers/holding a suitcase on a front rack). And they're riding 50-lb. Dutch city bikes, many of them singlespeed, in a ridiculously upright riding position! It may be flat there, but there are small rises at the bridges, and it takes some skill to maintain momentum, merge, turn, and not crash into another cyclist or a stoned, pic-snapping, phone-gazing tourist... on a 50-lb. bike in an upright position.

We spent some time hanging out in sidewalk cafes, and I would sit and watch the cyclists roll by. How do they do ride around without crashing? Americans would be ricocheting off each other all day long. I think it's because they learn from an early age. Consider this pic: This kid is ~9 months old. He or she has foot pegs, seatbelts, a windscreen. He's seated in front of mom, not behind, so he can see what's going on. That's how you learn to be an urban cyclist: By watching every move, start at age <1.:bike:

[bikinchris]

@ Allesandro:
You will often see VERY young kids with mom or dad having their hand on the middle of the back, pushing a tired child. They start very young and every public school child is taught a comprehensive cycling course in roughly 4th grade and the final exam requires them to ride along a route in town with teachers grading their riding skills.

[Red Tornado]

I went to A-dam for a week a couple of summers ago and thought it was fantastic. Sure, you had to watch where you were going, but it's not hard to figure out. On most streets, there is:
-Sidewalk for pedestrians
-One-way bike path for bikes
-Road for cars
-In the center, canal or tramway
-On the other side, repeat in the opposite direction.

I only rented a bike for an afternoon--I was with my family, and we mostly walked everywhere.

I didn't see any crashes. What really impressed me was how seamlessly people on bikes merged and meshed, riding in street clothes, often with one hand (talking on the phone, or holding a bottle of wine/flowers/holding a suitcase on a front rack). And they're riding 50-lb. Dutch city bikes, many of them singlespeed, in a ridiculously upright riding position! It may be flat there, but there are small rises at the bridges, and it takes some skill to maintain momentum, merge, turn, and not crash into another cyclist or a stoned, pic-snapping, phone-gazing tourist... on a 50-lb. bike in an upright position.

We spent some time hanging out in sidewalk cafes, and I would sit and watch the cyclists roll by. How do they do ride around without crashing? Americans would be ricocheting off each other all day long. I think it's because they learn from an early age. Consider this pic: This kid is ~9 months old. He or she has foot pegs, seatbelts, a windscreen. He's seated in front of mom, not behind, so he can see what's going on. That's how you learn to be an urban cyclist: By watching every move, start at age <1.:bike:

Made the same observations when I was there a few years ago. It's the most sensible form of transport for many, especially in the urban areas, and they do it year-round and in all sorts of weather.

[Johnnysmooth]

Been to Amsterdam many times and ride the streets on rented bikes. A little hectic at first to get hang of but once you just get into "flow", it really is quite delightful.

[veggieburger]

One thing I have said before: The Dutch don't really have a "bike culture" as we would think of it. They don't worship bikes anything like the people on this board do. Just like your average American doesn't worship cars. The Dutch just use bicycles because it makes the most sense for them. Where there are population centers, it is very dense and frankly there would be no room for parking or even buildings if they tried to build a road system like in the USA to accommodate the number of daily users like we do here.

Yes and no. One thing I will say is the Dutch very much appreciate a good, quality bike, even if it has one speed. Many of us (like myself) will drive a POS car, but most of the Dutch spend money on their bikes. And why not - aside from the train, it's their main form of transportation. Where I live, we have a lot of junky, plastic-y e-bikes on the road. The e-bikes in the Netherlands are primarily very good quality.

Also, I don't think Amsterdam is a cycling paradise, although it is enjoyable. Now get outside of Amsterdam to some of the smaller towns, where the infrastructure is top notch with far less traffic? Pretty nice IMO.