OT: Car Owner Culture online

[benb]

So I have my car in today getting an airbag replacement. :rolleyes:

This is the standard "airbag inflator gradually turns into a fragmentation grenade with exposure to time/element" thing. The issue with these airbags as far as I see it is the manufacturers had a pretty good sense of which ones are affected but they have a murky understanding of how long it takes for the airbag to degrade to the point it becomes a shrapnel thrower. And they decided to not recall later model cars till they finished repairing earlier ones on the assumption that the later cars hadn't degraded yet.

What is so interesting here is the owners online are clearly divided up into two camps:

Camp #1 - These people are furious because the gradual disclosure/recall was putting passengers at severe risk for years. The manufacturer did a gradual recall where they didn't tell everyone they were affected... repairing earlier vehicles first. Most people in this camp understand they can't fix all the cars at once and older cars have had more time for the airbag to turn into a grenade.. but they are upset about not being notified and the whole mysterious nature of which cars were affected.

Camp #2 - This group is the set of owners who have their identity wrapped up in the brand... they are indignant at Camp #1. Anyone who is questioning the brand or angry at the brand hurts their identity. So they are denying the risk & attacking everyone who is in Camp #1. They would rather just drive around even after the recall and let passengers sit near the bad airbag and assume everything is OK and it's a conspiracy.

Kind of fascinating. Also that the design of a safety device could be so badly botched that it became much more dangerous than no safety device. Reminds me a bit of the failure in the design of the LATCH child safety tethers too... the tethers had to have their weight rating dropped significantly from the original specification. Amazing as it's such a simple part of the car.

[MattTuck]

I blame the Mexicans that built the air bags. :eek:

But more seriously, it is a function of the global automotive supply chain that made it possible for airbags from one Mexican factory to end up in finished vehicles under so many different brands.

[Ken Robb]

I wonder: While waiting for a recall to replace questionable air bags would we be better off deactivating the air bags and just relying on seatbelts or should we leave the bags active believing ours haven't degraded enough to be dangerous?

[benb]

Hard to say, not sure I'd blame the Mexicans if the parent company was not doing due dilligence to ensure safe production methods of something with explosives in it.

No different than a factory making bullets or explosives.. if the manufacturing process is not safe enough I wouldn't blame the guy on the line for a mistake.

The divide here seems to be about some Camp #1 wants to be informed so they can make their own safety decision and Camp #2 thinks Camp #1 is being hysterical and if the car company decided you didn't need to know than your car was being safe.

I'm not sure what I would have done if I was informed 2-3 years ago but told I'd have to wait years for my turn in line.. but I would at least have known. I could have made the decision to a) Drive for years not allowing anyone to sit in the affected seat b) Try to disable the airbag c) Get rid of the car. With the controlled/delayed information rollout I was not allowed to know & make my own decision.

They handled it so weirdly and took so long I didn't/don't want to trust them to predict when they were failing. It sounds like calculating that was complex as it was affected by local weather conditions across the life of the car. My car is about 6 and a half years old.

I do prefer safety features that allow the user to be informed and make their own safety checks. Cars have mostly gone down the path of we are assumed to be idiots and we can't verify anything ourselves. Analogy, my son is pushing us to go rock climbing a lot. My wife and I took a safety class yesterday. As you move up the ladder you can inspect more of the safety measures yourself, and the safety devices are simpler. The auto-belay devices at casual places are like cars.. you can't personally inspect them and they're sealed up in a box. I like how I can inspect 99% of my bike myself before every ride. Only thing I am having to make an uninformed choice about is stuff like a carbon frame.

[Tony Edwards]

I waited literally years for the replacement airbag for my M3 to come into stock. Not sure whether that was BMW's fault or not - I would get dire warning letters and phone calls from them but the dealers nearby never had stock until last summer, when I finally got the replacement put in. I have never been in a car whose airbags were deployed, so never worried much about driving it while awaiting the replacement parts (It's never been a daily driver for me anyway - I drive it 2,000 miles or fewer a year).

[Ken Robb]

I don't know enough to have an opinion about faulting the manufacturer but I wonder if there was any practical way to test the air bags for failures that occur after years of use in harsher-than-average conditions.

[bart998]

Not mentioned was that the maker replaced driver-side bags first, then the passenger side bag later. This did allow the owners to continue operating their cars while leaving the passenger seats empty. So, my car got to have two stays with the dealer.

[MattTuck]

Hard to say, not sure I'd blame the Mexicans if the parent company was not doing due dilligence to ensure safe production methods of something with explosives in it.


Of course, my response was a bit tongue in cheek. But that facility had problems that did not plague other Takata facilities. If memory serves, BMW was one of the first to eliminate the Mexican made airbags from its cars, and instead source airbags from Takata plant in Germany.

Then a Takata truck bound for the facility exploded! (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/business/airbag-propellant-bound-for-takata-factory-detonates-en-route.html)

Yes, Takata should have had more oversight and done a better job with that plant, but it does seem like there was an issue with the culture at that particular facility. Did that come from the Takata parent? local leadership? Not sure. But, to my knowledge, the units from this plant are the only ones affected by the recalls.

[benb]

Not mentioned was that the maker replaced driver-side bags first, then the passenger side bag later. This did allow the owners to continue operating their cars while leaving the passenger seats empty. So, my car got to have two stays with the dealer.

Yah.. how did they handle that?

Did they send you a letter saying both were defective and you could have the driver's side bag replaced on date X but would have to wait for date Y for the passenger side one?

I would have been angry about was if they said the driver's side one was defective and stayed quiet until Date Y to tell me about the passenger side bag.

I am somewhat convinced the manufacturer of my car (Subaru) knew they were going to recall my car for a few years now and waited to tell me cause they wanted to get through the earlier cars first. I would have rather they told me about it a few years ago even if I had to wait a few years like Tony Edwards with his M3.

Subaru trickled out a small # of recalls for years, I've been watching this checking my car for years thinking mine was safe and then seemingly had to recall a huge amount more all on one day earlier this year. It makes me wonder if the .gov forced them to all of a sudden.

I have a co-worker with a 2013 BRZ.. his was replaced 4 years ago, probably of the same vintage as the one in my 2013 Outback.. I would have at least liked a notice back then. But since their are probably 10 Outbacks for every 1 BRZ they must not have wanted to send those letters.

We have a Honda too, it got the recall years and years ago with no drama. They recalled early & fixed it quickly.

[Ralph]

With Takata going bankrupt.....and not producing airbags.....My manufacturer (Ford) had to work up a replacement from another source.....and then get them in volume enough to supply the dealerships...so they said. It had to be designed to fit into the dash.

But agree.....we were not too happy owning a vehicle where it was not safe for a passenger to ride in front seat. And you couldn't really sell it like that.

Fortunately was my mother in laws car, and basically just sat around our house for one person use.

Just happy it's finally fixed.

[kingpin75s]

Thanks for reminding me that I need to get my death trap in for the recall.

[pjm]

I continue to receive airbag recall notices from Honda 12 years after I traded the car in at a Honda dealership. And this is after a Honda rep came to my door to ask me to bring the car in. After I explained to her my situation, she assured me I would not receive further notices. I still get ‘em.

[Jaybee]

Thanks for reminding me that I need to get my death trap in for the recall.

Same. Scheduling now.

[pobrien]

Camp #1 - These people are furious because the gradual disclosure/recall was putting passengers at severe risk for years.

I don't think it is fair to say the risk was severe. That devalues anything else you say in your post (in my opinion) as I don't know where else you embraced hyperbole so closely.

To be safe, if one wants a safe car, you should disable all the video and audio systems - including hands free phone which is as distracting as holding the phone to your head.

I would admire someone doing that to make their car truly much safer than the miniscule risk of the airbag injuring a car occupant.

Patrick

[2metalhips]

I continue to receive airbag recall notices from Honda 12 years after I traded the car in at a Honda dealership. And this is after a Honda rep came to my door to ask me to bring the car in. After I explained to her my situation, she assured me I would not receive further notices. I still get ‘em.

Same here but I didn't get a house call.........yet.

[Mikej]

I just had this - I am now scheduled for my 3rd trip back to the Honda dealership to finish repairing the broken trim and dashboard pieces.

[josephr]

Hard to say, not sure I'd blame the Mexicans if the parent company was not doing due dilligence to ensure safe production methods of something with explosives in it.



Takata's plant in Mexico has a history rife of problems...plant explosions, production recalls that never made it into vehicles, etc. The 2012 incidences were tracked back to workers putting the wrong inflators into the airbag units --- wasn't caught until someone was dead. You can blame workers, management, everyone at Takata and Honda and every manufacturer that continues to use Takata's airbags in their vehicles. :mad:

[benb]

I don't think it is fair to say the risk was severe. That devalues anything else you say in your post (in my opinion) as I don't know where else you embraced hyperbole so closely.


Honda alone had identified 13 people killed in Hondas by these airbags by 2013, that's one manufacturer, and 6 years later they're still recalling cars for this.

Sure cars aren't "safe" but it adds insult to injury to be killed by the safety device in a crash you would have walked away from with 0 injuries if the car was functioning properly.

How would you like it if you got to watch your loved one bleed out from a neck sliced up by shrapnel from the airbag? That is how quite a few of the people died.

This is the biggest/worst recall in the history of the car industry so I think it's totally fine to be angry.

[zap]

Our newest Mercedes, a '13, is involved in this airbag recall......passenger side only. This car was made in South Africa so who knows which Takata factory supplied the airbag.

We started receiving letters from MBUSA in '15, last one arrived earlier this year. I called MBUSA and was informed that MB has been working on older models first and our car is scheduled for airbag replacement in Q1 '20.

MBUSA is being sued by owners of affected vehicles.

Thankfully our 2 older Mercedes vehicles are not part of this recall.