Deda carbon failure

[axel23]

On a ride recently and heard a cracking noise while on the drops. Rode home (carefully, on the hoods) unwrapped handlebar bar tape and discovered that the bars had splintered! No logical explanation. Deda Superleggera less than a year old, no crashes, no prior damage.

And - yes, there's more - the other drop was also beginning to splinter in approximately the same place.

Brake levers not particularly tight, torque wrench used.
Thoughts? Comments? Insights?

Purchased from PBK personally.

[tuscanyswe]

Ouch that could have been a nasty tumble. Be thankful you spotted.
Weird damage with no impacts!

[Matthew]

Oh s%&t, I have those exact bars. No weird noises or anything from mine but will definitely be paying attention!

[John H.]

I fear Deda carbon parts.
I know a guy who had a Deda post fail, and it injured him.
He got a lawyer and sued- Got a settlement.

[charliedid]

On a ride recently and heard a cracking noise while on the drops. Rode home (carefully, on the hoods) unwrapped handlebar bar tape and discovered that the bars had splintered! No logical explanation. Deda Superleggera less than a year old, no crashes, no prior damage.

And - yes, there's more - the other drop was also beginning to splinter in approximately the same place.

Brake levers not particularly tight, torque wrench used.
Thoughts? Comments? Insights?

Purchased from PBK personally.

Please alert the retailer (if possible) as well as Deda if what (and I trust it is) you say is true.

NIghtmare

[axel23]

Returned the bars to PBK. They accepted the return and validated the warranty (less than a year old), but Deda would not honor the claim.

I agree, it's hard to explain how something like this could happen. i suppose if you had the bike on the roof and drove into your garage, but even that wouldn't quite account for it.

At 150lbs, I don't put exceptional stress on the drops. So yes, all true and something of a mystery.



Please alert the retailer (if possible) as well as Deda if what (and I trust it is) you say is true.

NIghtmare

[ultraman6970]

INsight??? go back to aluminum, nothing bad with aluminum stem and handlebar IMO.

[charliedid]

Returned the bars to PBK. They accepted the return and validated the warranty (less than a year old), but Deda would not honor the claim.

I agree, it's hard to explain how something like this could happen. i suppose if you had the bike on the roof and drove into your garage, but even that wouldn't quite account for it.

At 150lbs, I don't put exceptional stress on the drops. So yes, all true and something of a mystery.

Yikes

Glad you are okay.

Too bad a third party couldn't look at them to try and sniff out the problem. Deda = Deaf

[OtayBW]

Returned the bars to PBK. They accepted the return and validated the warranty (less than a year old), but Deda would not honor the claim.Amazing. I can only assume that w/ a failure like that, they don't want to even infer culpability. This is impressive...

[shinomaster]

Jeezus and I was just about to buy a set of deda carbon bars too.

[charliedid]

Amazing. I can only assume that w/ a failure like that, they don't want to even infer culpability. This is impressive...

Indeed

[R3awak3n]

yikes, that is lame of Deda and they probably lost a customer with you.

[oldpotatoe]

Returned the bars to PBK. They accepted the return and validated the warranty (less than a year old), but Deda would not honor the claim.

I agree, it's hard to explain how something like this could happen. i suppose if you had the bike on the roof and drove into your garage, but even that wouldn't quite account for it.

At 150lbs, I don't put exceptional stress on the drops. So yes, all true and something of a mystery.

So did PBK honor it? I'd ask for something else, IMHO or a refund..Or are ya SOL?

[Heisenberg]

I fear Deda carbon parts.
I know a guy who had a Deda post fail, and it injured him.
He got a lawyer and sued- Got a settlement.

and metal ones. i’ve seen two too many catastrophic stem failures.

[zmalwo]

I had a deda superleggera seatpost before and the carbon construction on that thing was awful. Looking up from the bottom I saw so many wrinkles and ridges and the wall was so thin. Whichever subcontractor made it didn't do a very good job obviously. this is why I never use carbon post, bars and stems. Not worth the risks for a few grams. Whenever I get a used or new bike with these carbon parts I always sell them and get some cheaper alloy ones instead.

[skiezo]

I had a Deda post start to delaminate last year that was less than a year old. I sent it back to jenson and they warranted it. Contacted Deda and it was a dead end there.
Glad no injury came as a result of that failure.

[CunegoFan]

Any issues with Deda aluminium stems or bars? Asking for a "friend".

[fignon's barber]

OP, was the crack where the edge of the metal band of the lever meets the bar, or was there any oxidation (yes, carbon can oxidize or corrode from sweat) on the bar?

[dgauthier]

Returned the bars to PBK. They accepted the return and validated the warranty (less than a year old), but Deda would not honor the claim. (...)

I had a Deda post start to delaminate last year that was less than a year old. I sent it back to jenson and they warranted it. Contacted Deda and it was a dead end there. (...)

This is simply unacceptable. I'll never buy another Deda product and I hope no one else here will either.

[axel23]

Here is PBK's latest response:

"All at PBK thought this kind of scenario would be covered and it seems that this may not be the case.

I am continuing to contact them [Deda] to urge them to take a second opinion on the matter, yet I cannot guarantee that they will.

Should they still stand by their decision on this matter, the handlebars will be returned to you.''

Neither PBK's nor Deda's response makes sense to me. I was courteous, not demanding of anything, but definitely wanting to point out the risk posed by this kind of failure.

So did PBK honor it? I'd ask for something else, IMHO or a refund..Or are ya SOL?

[axel23]

Good questions. But no, the splintering was well below where the levers were mounted. And no oxidation or anything else that would explain the failure.

I was really scratching my head over this. Until reading some of the comments posted here, I thought fears over carbon posts and bars were exaggerated. No longer.


OP, was the crack where the edge of the metal band of the lever meets the bar, or was there any oxidation (yes, carbon can oxidize or corrode from sweat) on the bar?

[fignon's barber]

Good questions. But no, the splintering was well below where the levers were mounted. And no oxidation or anything else that would explain the failure.

I was really scratching my head over this. Until reading some of the comments posted here, I thought fears over carbon posts and bars were exaggerated. No longer.


Have you contacted Deda US ? They may be more willing to help, as the cost to replace will be less for them here in the States. I'm thinking you won't get great service from PBK because I think they are just a broker or "virtual store". They have no leverage on this type of thing. That's why when you order something from them, it arrives from all over the place (I've had PBK orders come from Netherlands, Denmark, Italy).

[OtayBW]

Here is PBK's latest response:

"All at PBK thought this kind of scenario would be covered and it seems that this may not be the case.

I am continuing to contact them [Deda] to urge them to take a second opinion on the matter, yet I cannot guarantee that they will.

Should they still stand by their decision on this matter, the handlebars will be returned to you.''

Neither PBK's nor Deda's response makes sense to me. I was courteous, not demanding of anything, but definitely wanting to point out the risk posed by this kind of failure.
I would thank them for their note and then politely let them know that since this was a catastrohic failure on a new purchase, you're inquiring about liability issues concerning the manufacturer.

[dddd]

I can't speak for the manufacturer, but unless someone can say that they were there with the bars from the day that they left the factory, literally almost anything could have happened to them.

A bike left leaning against a wall could have had a truck back up into the bike, with the bars taking the load (this is something that apparently happened to one of my steel bikes, but no, I wasn't there at the time).

Similarly, a bike put in a moving van could have heavy furniture exerting very high levels of force as the truck rounded a corner, slammed on the brakes or perhaps backed up into a 4" steel post. Similar damage would result.

I'm not advocating carbon handlebars, though I did put them on my lightest carbon road bike (Zipp brand, sale-priced fwiw). I was in a cyclocross race a couple of years back, and during practice a friend tipped over and snapped his carbon bars. He'd already paid his entry fees after driving over an hour to the race venue, so I saw firsthand the possible folly of using carbon handlebars!

I've had aluminum bars fail from fatigue near the clamp, I learned from that so put Nitto bars on the hard-ridden CX rig.

I once saw a rider in a fasty training paceline drift off the pavement onto the gravel, then crash (luckily un-injured). Immediately the rider got to his feet, picked up his bike and declared that the now-broken carbon handlebar had caused his crash!

If the OP's bar has failed on both sides, and had been in use for a while, it would inevitably raise huge suspicion as to how both sides of the bar could suddenly be found to be broken.
JRA stories accompanying broken parts are legend in the bike industry.
Just sayin'.

One more thing is that the inside of tubes made by carbon layup processes ain't pretty, there are typically areas where the bladder apparently has wrinkles that trap odd-shaped resin protrusions that look plain sloppy. But it's the (usually thin) layer of carbon that carries the load.
A carbon seatpost might well be designed with a highly-variable wall thickness to deal with stress-concentration along the back side where the open end of the seattube impinges on the carbon post.
Carbon part's limitation is similar to some of the high-yield-strength alloys in that there is almost no ductility (deformation with energy absorption) prior to fracture, so even though the tested yield strength tends to be very high, the response to unpredictable impact loads tends to be catastrophic at the very moment when the yield strength is exceeded.

[dddd]

Just as with brake cables, it's easy to apply static loading while the bike is stopped that will exceed the amount of loading that can occur while riding.

Carbon bars are supposed to have a very high strength so should be no indications while pushing down on each drop using both hands as a check of it's load capacity.
And, since carbon does not fatigue at lower loadings the way that aluminum can, the test loading should tend not to decrease over time.

[dddd]

Returned the bars to PBK. They accepted the return and validated the warranty (less than a year old), but Deda would not honor the claim. ...

I would contact Deda directly on this one, if only to verify that PBK ever actually bothered to contact Deda.

Based on my own dealings with PBK, I can only say that I found them to be wholly dishonest.

[OtayBW]

I can't speak for the manufacturer, but unless someone can say that they were there with the bars from the day that they left the factory, literally almost anything could have happened to them.

A bike left leaning against a wall could have had a truck back up into the bike, with the bars taking the load (this is something that apparently happened to one of my steel bikes, but no, I wasn't there at the time).

Similarly, a bike put in a moving van could have heavy furniture exerting very high levels of force as the truck rounded a corner, slammed on the brakes or perhaps backed up into a 4" steel post. Similar damage would result.

I'm not advocating carbon handlebars, though I did put them on my lightest carbon road bike (Zipp brand, sale-priced fwiw). I was in a cyclocross race a couple of years back, and during practice a friend tipped over and snapped his carbon bars. He'd already paid his entry fees after driving over an hour to the race venue, so I saw firsthand the possible folly of using carbon handlebars!

I've had aluminum bars fail from fatigue near the clamp, I learned from that so put Nitto bars on the hard-ridden CX rig.

I once saw a rider in a fasty training paceline drift off the pavement onto the gravel, then crash (luckily un-injured). Immediately the rider got to his feet, picked up his bike and declared that the now-broken carbon handlebar had caused his crash!

If the OP's bar has failed on both sides, and had been in use for a while, it would inevitably raise huge suspicion as to how both sides of the bar could suddenly be found to be broken.
JRA stories accompanying broken parts are legend in the bike industry.
Just sayin'.

One more thing is that the inside of tubes made by carbon layup processes ain't pretty, there are typically areas where the bladder apparently has wrinkles that trap odd-shaped resin protrusions that look plain sloppy. But it's the (usually thin) layer of carbon that carries the load.
A carbon seatpost might well be designed with a highly-variable wall thickness to deal with stress-concentration along the back side where the open end of the seattube impinges on the carbon post.
Carbon part's limitation is similar to some of the high-yield-strength alloys in that there is almost no ductility (deformation with energy absorption) prior to fracture, so even though the tested yield strength tends to be very high, the response to unpredictable impact loads tends to be catastrophic at the very moment when the yield strength is exceeded.I'm no lawyer, but I've been involved with chain of custody situations. They're not always 'bulletproof' - e.g., claiming that manufacturer is not responsible because the owner may have exceeded the yield stress or design specs resulting in the failure for some reason - may not pass the sniff test. Other factors equal, a catastrophic failure due to mfg or design defect after normal use seems more convincing.

[Joxster]

I would contact Deda directly on this one, if only to verify that PBK ever actually bothered to contact Deda.

Based on my own dealings with PBK, I can only say that I found them to be wholly dishonest.

Well, PBK would contact the supplier of Deda in the UK, either Bob Elliot or Chicken Cycle Kit who would then speak to Deda. Unless the bars are an OE product then PBK won't give a rats ass and throw Deda under the bus

[axel23]

Thanks to everyone who weighed in. The failure of the bars remains a puzzle, especially as I was the only user from the time of purchase until they cracked. As it stands, my confidence in Deda carbon is shaken.

Fortunately, I didn't crash, but it's disconcerting to ride home with only the handlebar tape holding the bars together.

I'll keep everyone posted on PBK's and Deda's final word on the matter.

[zmalwo]

From what Campagnolo told me when they refused to exchange my Sciroccos due to their false advertisement, PBK is apparently a grey zone retailer. That's all they said so I assume PBK is also a grey zone retailer for Deda so I doubt they even contacted Deda.

[oldpotatoe]

Here is PBK's latest response:

"All at PBK thought this kind of scenario would be covered and it seems that this may not be the case.

I am continuing to contact them [Deda] to urge them to take a second opinion on the matter, yet I cannot guarantee that they will.

Should they still stand by their decision on this matter, the handlebars will be returned to you.''

Neither PBK's nor Deda's response makes sense to me. I was courteous, not demanding of anything, but definitely wanting to point out the risk posed by this kind of failure.

That's balderdash..they should warranty internally then or not buy junque..

Crappola all around.
PBK is apparently a grey zone retailer. That's all they said so I assume PBK is also a grey zone retailer for Deda so I doubt they even contacted Deda.

Really? A interweb place that 'may' sell seconds, blems or other outside the 'normal distribution channels', product? Shocking...Not:eek:

[benb]

I wonder what the designed in strength for the bars was.

My impression is it should be near 1000lbs.. way more than necessary since it's a major safety issue.

I'm off to go see if anyone has done these tests and put them on Youtube.

I think too often the testing is not getting done or the designed in safety factors are insufficient. The safety factor should be enough that all the cases that dddd mentioned should not be an issue.

I don't necessarily think the failure cases for cycling are that much less scary than something like rock climbing.. a lot of that rock climbing equipment has near 10x safety factor designed in.. bikes don't seem anywhere near that. Maybe the only component on a carbon bike that strikes me as having that kind of safety factor is the steer tube/legs on a carbon fork.

The flip side with carbon bars is they are way too expensive for what you get out of them. It's like 30-40g of weight savings sometimes at near 3X the price of a light Aluminum bar.

On the other hand the OPs bars did not actually break did they? From what I've read carbon can keep it's strength with significant amounts broken away.

[zap]

Is there a bar code/qc sticker in the hbar ends?

[Black Dog]

I wonder what the designed in strength for the bars was.

My impression is it should be near 1000lbs.. way more than necessary since it's a major safety issue.

I'm off to go see if anyone has done these tests and put them on Youtube.

I think too often the testing is not getting done or the designed in safety factors are insufficient. The safety factor should be enough that all the cases that dddd mentioned should not be an issue.

I don't necessarily think the failure cases for cycling are that much less scary than something like rock climbing.. a lot of that rock climbing equipment has near 10x safety factor designed in.. bikes don't seem anywhere near that. Maybe the only component on a carbon bike that strikes me as having that kind of safety factor is the steer tube/legs on a carbon fork.

The flip side with carbon bars is they are way too expensive for what you get out of them. It's like 30-40g of weight savings sometimes at near 3X the price of a light Aluminum bar.

On the other hand the OPs bars did not actually break did they? From what I've read carbon can keep it's strength with significant amounts broken away.

This is true, however, the ability to produce great ergonomic shapes in carbon is an advantage. I would buy Carbon bars with a good flat profile top if they were are strong and durable as Al bars, I do not want to sacrifice anything in terms of strength and durability on contact points. Failure is not a good time.

[sailorboy]

Good questions. But no, the splintering was well below where the levers were mounted. And no oxidation or anything else that would explain the failure.

I was really scratching my head over this. Until reading some of the comments posted here, I thought fears over carbon posts and bars were exaggerated. No longer.

I guess this is why carbon posts for 'cross are generally frowned on...bars probably should be as well.

[benb]

I guess this is why carbon posts for 'cross are generally frowned on...bars probably should be as well.

Maybe.. realistically they are probably fine if the manufacturer is doing their homework.

My guess is they are not. They can make carbon parts cheaper if they don't spend the time to really understand how safe they are. And the problem could be if they spend that time they cost too much, or they're not lighter enough compared to aluminum.

If more of these parts had weight limits/ranges that'd make me feel better.

[NHAero]

I've definitely avoided carbon being I'm an old school mechanical engineer, but then 3-1/2 years ago bought a Pivot 429C FS 29er which gets harder usage than any bike I own, and has carbon almost everywhere except the wheels, and it seems really rugged. Is it reasonable to assume the main line products like Easton are making carbon MTB components pretty darn rugged?

Maybe.. realistically they are probably fine if the manufacturer is doing their homework.

My guess is they are not. They can make carbon parts cheaper if they don't spend the time to really understand how safe they are. And the problem could be if they spend that time they cost too much, or they're not lighter enough compared to aluminum.

If more of these parts had weight limits/ranges that'd make me feel better.

[Joxster]

I work for a UK distibutor of Deda and had a chat with our warranty dept today and PBK HAVEN'T requested a warranty on those bars and they've also not purchased any within the last eight months from us. I also know who they (and Merlin, Planet X, Ribble to name a few) are buying from. You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

[rlanger]

Any issues with Deda aluminium stems or bars? Asking for a "friend".

Been riding SuperZero alloy bar and stem for a couple of years now. No issues at all and they look and perform great.

[Pegoready]

You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

Wait, what? Is this a metaphor?

[retrofit]

I work for a UK distibutor of Deda and had a chat with our warranty dept today and PBK HAVEN'T requested a warranty on those bars and they've also not purchased any within the last eight months from us. I also know who they (and Merlin, Planet X, Ribble to name a few) are buying from. You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

The plot thickens...

[Matthew]

Don't Tiagra and Ultegra look different? Finishes?

[jtbadge]

Don't Tiagra and Ultegra look different? Finishes?

Way different. And they're not even the same number of speeds.

[charliedid]

LOL

Tiagra is 10 speed.

Is it a full moon today? :help:

[Matthew]

Ok, figured this to be the case but have not bought parts in a long time. Figured they couldn't possibly get away with this. As I had mentioned on page 1 I have these exact bars. I tugged and pulled, and wrenched on mine this morning to see if I had any creaking or obvious play/movement and mine felt as they have since installing them a few years or so ago. Did not take the bar tape off though to look at them. May buy a different set of bars just in case.

[charliedid]

Ok, figured this to be the case but have not bought parts in a long time. Figured they couldn't possibly get away with this. As I had mentioned on page 1 I have these exact bars. I tugged and pulled, and wrenched on mine this morning to see if I had any creaking or obvious play/movement and mine felt as they have since installing them a few years or so ago. Did not take the bar tape off though to look at them. May buy a different set of bars just in case.

My comment (I should relax) was not really in response to your comment more to Joxter's.

Either way if you have those exact bars I'd do a full inspection of them. Who knows what's going on with them but I wouldn't take a chance and can only assume ( no reason not to) that the OP's story is as told.

[CunegoFan]

Been riding SuperZero alloy bar and stem for a couple of years now. No issues at all and they look and perform great.

That's a relief. It's hard to find a bar that has a traditional bend that I like. The anatomic or compact drops just don't do it for me.

I have the Zero 100 deep bend along with the matching stems on a couple of my bikes, and I have never had a problem but was fearing my experience was atypical.

[Peter B]

Deda Belgian Deep and Zipp SC SL are two trad AL options.

[iPaul]

May have missed this but one possibility could be these bars were a return and never fully inspected. If previous owner mounted, handled them poorly they could have been compromised. Just playing along with this mystery.

[GonaSovereign]

I work for a UK distibutor of Deda and had a chat with our warranty dept today and PBK HAVEN'T requested a warranty on those bars and they've also not purchased any within the last eight months from us. I also know who they (and Merlin, Planet X, Ribble to name a few) are buying from. You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

That would be a ballsy fraud. The cranks are rather different enough that you can rell them apart across the room.

(The Deda model lines do confuse me though. :-))

[Matthew]

Hey, no problem at all Charlie. I truly wasn't sure what Tiagra looked like. Yeah, I'm going to take a look at my bars in more detail.

[texbike]

On a ride recently and heard a cracking noise while on the drops. Rode home (carefully, on the hoods) unwrapped handlebar bar tape and discovered that the bars had splintered! No logical explanation. Deda Superleggera less than a year old, no crashes, no prior damage.

And - yes, there's more - the other drop was also beginning to splinter in approximately the same place.

Brake levers not particularly tight, torque wrench used.
Thoughts? Comments? Insights?

Purchased from PBK personally.

This is absolutely scary! I know axel23 and he takes great care of his gear and is far from being a 220 lb track sprinter. I can't imagine what would cause a failure at the spot that it occurred. Over the weekend, I was bombing down a long, curvy descent on a section of rough pavement and was in the drops while doing it. It could have been really nasty if the bars had failed at that point.

As for PBK/Deda providing a warranty and taking care of things on their end, I would be posting this failure on every major bike forum. They need to step up and take care of this specific failure as well as ensure that this isn't a wider-spread issue.

Texbike

[axel23]

Just to be clear: yes, people make fraudulent warranty claims all the time. This is not the case for me. I wasn't injured as a result of the failure - just inconvenienced - and was motivated primarily by concern for others' safety. And sure, a refund would have been welcome, but finding out why the bars failed mattered most.

I didn't discover the crack on the right side (similar location, just below the brake lever) until I unwrapped the bars. It was still only a thin line and hadn't begun to splinter as had the left side.

I put on my older alu bars - also Deda - returned the Superleggeras and probably would not have pursued it further had I gotten a reasonable explanation.

PBK says they will return the bars to me and I am happy to send them on to anyone who feels they can investigate this further (product engineers? Deda USA?).

And cheers to the forum for bringing up any number of angles I never even considered!

[benb]

That would be a ballsy fraud. The cranks are rather different enough that you can rell them apart across the room.

(The Deda model lines do confuse me though. :-))

LOL it sounds like BS... Are Tiagra cranks even Hollowtech? In the 10 speed era you could tell them apart blindfolded.

[notsew]

Just to be clear: yes, people make fraudulent warranty claims all the time. This is not the case for me. I wasn't injured as a result of the failure - just inconvenienced - and was motivated primarily by concern for others' safety. And sure, a refund would have been welcome, but finding out why the bars failed mattered most.

I didn't discover the crack on the right side (similar location, just below the brake lever) until I unwrapped the bars. It was still only a thin line and hadn't begun to splinter as had the left side.

I put on my older alu bars - also Deda - returned the Superleggeras and probably would not have pursued it further had I gotten a reasonable explanation.

PBK says they will return the bars to me and I am happy to send them on to anyone who feels they can investigate this further (product engineers? Deda USA?).

And cheers to the forum for bringing up any number of angles I never even considered!

If you get those bars back, you should tweet some pics @dedaelementi #ridededa #deadlydeda or something like that. IMO the only meaningful use of twitter these days is customer service based. Be worth a try anyways.

[m4rk540]

I thought most of us self insure when we buy from places like PBK, Lordgun, Shiny, etc, basically all the shady companies that are actually one employee in a depressing office park. I don't expect these outlets to sell counterfeit items, and possibly I'm naive, but I also don't expect customer service beyond automated messages. And when things break or wear out, I consider that the price of admission. With the savings over the years, 30% of the parts I've bought can disintegrate - Conti 4000s especially - and I'm still ahead.

Anyway, in this situation I would have hit up Deda on Instagram. What more can you do?

[cnighbor1]

On my Aluminum handlebars decided new tape was in order
upon removal I noticed on the Cinelli bars a long wavering crack
wow that was close to pure crash and burn
why it was cracked no idea

[Kirk007]

Seems like when I first got back into cycling in the late 80s early 90s, and ttt and cinelli etc ruled the handlebar market, there was generic advice routinely given to replace handlebars every two years or so. All of these parts can break.

It seems like the incidence of carbon bars breaking is relatively low or at least rarely mentioned - I don't seem to hear about this happening much in the pro peleton but perhaps they are replacing frequently.

As to carbon seatposts, well its hard to beat a nice PMP titanium post. But I do have WR Compositi and one Synace post. The WR compositi are much thicker than most I've seen from other manufacturers and the Synace are reinforced front and back, thinner on the sides, and seem to be the product of some serious German engineering and testing (resulting in if I recall correctly a 10 year warranty even when used for mountain biking).

[NHAero]

How old are those bars?

On my Aluminum handlebars decided new tape was in order
upon removal I noticed on the Cinelli bars a long wavering crack
wow that was close to pure crash and burn
why it was cracked no idea

[charliedid]

On my Aluminum handlebars decided new tape was in order
upon removal I noticed on the Cinelli bars a long wavering crack
wow that was close to pure crash and burn
why it was cracked no idea

Pics?

[bikingshearer]

Personally, I am a devoted fan of Nitto bars and stems. Nitto is the king of over-engineering and that is a highly desirable thing in this application. I like my skull and I like my teeth, so no carbon fiber cockpits for me, thankee kindly; the weight savings with carbon is imply not worth the risk to either.

And, as always, this opinion is worth exactly what you are paying for it.

[oldpotatoe]

I work for a UK distibutor of Deda and had a chat with our warranty dept today and PBK HAVEN'T requested a warranty on those bars and they've also not purchased any within the last eight months from us. I also know who they (and Merlin, Planet X, Ribble to name a few) are buying from. You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

What he said..buyer beware.
Really? A interweb place that 'may' sell seconds, blems or other outside the 'normal distribution channels', product? Shocking...Not

[rain dogs]

I work for a UK distibutor of Deda and had a chat with our warranty dept today and PBK HAVEN'T requested a warranty on those bars and they've also not purchased any within the last eight months from us. I also know who they (and Merlin, Planet X, Ribble to name a few) are buying from. You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

Can you elaborate more on this and/or provide experience of this, because what you are insinuating is unbelievable.

Key word being unbelievable.

If what you are insinuating is true - that when buying from PBK, Ribble, PlanetX, Merlin etc you are net receiving what you think you are buying - that is a massive allegation, and very serious unless I am misunderstanding. If so, I appear to not be the only one so please correct me/us.

[oldpotatoe]

Can you elaborate more on this and/or provide experience of this, because what you are insinuating is unbelievable.

Key word being unbelievable.

If what you are insinuating is true - that when buying from PBK, Ribble, PlanetX, Merlin etc you are not receiving what you think you are buying - that is a massive allegation, and very serious unless I am misunderstanding. If so, I appear to not be the only one so please correct me/us.

Really? In the trenches at the shop and during many conversations with 'industry' guys from Ritchey, mavic, Campagnolo, even shimano, some of these places selling seconds, blems and even outright counterfeit 'stuff' is pretty common knowledge. They have whole departments of 'buyers' who scour the interweb for 'deals'. often from very shady or outright 'illegal', places. This gig with the DEDA bar and PBK is not surprising to me at all.

[fignon's barber]

Can you elaborate more on this and/or provide experience of this, because what you are insinuating is unbelievable.

Key word being unbelievable.

If what you are insinuating is true - that when buying from PBK, Ribble, PlanetX, Merlin etc you are net receiving what you think you are buying - that is a massive allegation, and very serious unless I am misunderstanding. If so, I appear to not be the only one so please correct me/us.


I think Joxster just got a little carried away with the tiagra/ultegra example. Like I said in an earlier post, however, many of these UK places are really just low margin brokers, not authorized dealers. You should know that before typing in the credit card number and factor that into your value formulation. A couple of weeks ago I bought a pair of Campag Boras from a UK site, screaming deal. They arrived in 4 days......from a well known Italian bike manufacturer!

[oldpotatoe]

I think Joxster just got a little carried away with the tiagra/ultegra example. Like I said in an earlier post, however, many of these UK places are really just low margin brokers, not authorized dealers. You should know that before typing in the credit card number and factor that into your value formulation. A couple of weeks ago I bought a pair of Campag Boras from a UK site, screaming deal. They arrived in 4 days......from a well known Italian bike manufacturer!

Just for giggles, copy the number off the wee sticker with barcode and serial number and zing that by Campag, NA to see what the distribution 'path' was and whether or not you have a warranty..

Bet I can guess who...C_____o?

[rain dogs]

OK ok... but buying overstock OEM, grey market (well known practices) is hugely different than saying Ribble, etc are selling counterfeit goods and ... getting away with it?

It's not scandalous that someone is buying Deda bars from C____o, vs Deda distributors, but if they are buying imitation Deda bars from whomever/whereever is fraud.

And sure as heck not people selling Taigra as Ultegra... which doesn't even make sense.

[unterhausen]

I'm sure Deda gets tired of being asked to warranty counterfeit stuff. I wouldn't have thought that PBK and their peers would knowingly sell counterfeit, but who knows about the companies they buy from? Someone upthread asked the OP about the sticker on the bars that would help tell if these bars were counterfeit or not and didn't get a reply.

[shoota]

INsight??? go back to aluminum, nothing bad with aluminum stem and handlebar IMO.

I've seen plenty of them fail from sweat corrosion. It didn't end well for the riders.

[fignon's barber]

I've seen plenty of them fail from sweat corrosion. It didn't end well for the riders.

In Florida, my aluminum bars last, at most, two years.

[NHAero]

Would you please say more about how they fail or what triggers replacement?

In Florida, my aluminum bars last, at most, two years.

[zmalwo]

I work for a UK distibutor of Deda and had a chat with our warranty dept today and PBK HAVEN'T requested a warranty on those bars and they've also not purchased any within the last eight months from us. I also know who they (and Merlin, Planet X, Ribble to name a few) are buying from. You order Ultegra bits at Tiagra prices because it is rebadged Tiagra with OE Ultegra labels, but you're getting such a great deal

hmmm.... I think that Ultegra-Tiagra example wasn't so good since you can differentiate the two just by looking at them for a sec :p But I get what you are saying. These Grey zone broker discounted parts probably doesn't come with warranty. But then again what does a 2 year warranty do anyways right?

[longlist]

many many years ago i bought a hubset on ebay. it was an american classic hub. i found out the company making the hubs were selling seconds on ebay. ones that didn't pass quality control standards. they wouldnt warranty it due to how i bought it and that it wasn't a "real" hubset. this is why i don't by online anymore.

[pbarry]

This is absolutely scary! I know axel23 and he takes great care of his gear and is far from being a 220 lb track sprinter. I can't imagine what would cause a failure at the spot that it occurred. Over the weekend, I was bombing down a long, curvy descent on a section of rough pavement and was in the drops while doing it. It could have been really nasty if the bars had failed at that point.

As for PBK/Deda providing a warranty and taking care of things on their end, I would be posting this failure on every major bike forum. They need to step up and take care of this specific failure as well as ensure that this isn't a wider-spread issue.

Texbike

Yes, and where is Deda's SN spokesperson here? It's 2019, and an issue like this could kill sales of a product without a swift response. Just wondering..

[FlashUNC]

Or has been brought up, this could be a blem/second/counterfeit part that any self respecting company would have no business warrantying.

PBK needs to step up rather than passing the buck. If they want to sell garbage, then they need to deal with the fallout.

[Black Dog]

Yes, and where is Deda's SN spokesperson here? It's 2019, and an issue like this could kill sales of a product without a swift response. Just wondering..

Well, 1st you have to be sure that PBK actually did contact Deda. Second, if the bars are grey market then why should Deda cover them unless Deda is ok with grey market. Before we get out the pitch forks we should get some facts. PBK should step up however.

[ravdg316]

I returned these exact Deda bars to PBK because of some issues with the finish that had me concerned about safety. I forgot specifically what it was, but I took a picture of it, contacted PBK, and they sent me a return label and paid for shipping back to the UK. The process was pretty painless, although it took a few days.

I wouldn't be surprised if Deda bars on PBK are factory seconds of some kind, but I couldn't fault their customer service.

[Matthew]

Kind of wish I didn't have these bars on my bike now. Wonder if others have had issues here and elsewhere? Mine seem fine but has me looking at aluminum bars for possible purchase.

[fignon's barber]

Would you please say more about how they fail or what triggers replacement?

Aluminum will oxidize and corrode the bar, especially when combining hot weather and lots of ridng (Florida and 10 or 11,000 miles per year). Never had this problem when I lived in Michigan. The surface of the bar gets a lumpy white oxidation. If you can feel a lump under the bartape, it means you're starting to get it. This can also happen to carbon bars.

[Blown Reek]

I bought these same bars from PBK about a year ago (although in the Superleggera RS finish), and when they were delivered, even though they were in all factory packaging, there was a noticeable scuff/scrape on the bar. Since it was on the curve area and not the clamping area, I figured I'd just suck it up, since returns to PBK are a pain in the ass, and that's what you get when searching for the cheapest online price.

Anyway, I rode the bars a few times, didn't like them and they've been sitting in my garage, waiting for me to put them up on sale on Paceline. Now, after reading this whole thread and seeing how other had the exact same bars with the exact same issue, I put them in the garbage yesterday.

[texbike]

Yes, and where is Deda's SN spokesperson here? It's 2019, and an issue like this could kill sales of a product without a swift response. Just wondering..

Well, 1st you have to be sure that PBK actually did contact Deda. Second, if the bars are grey market then why should Deda cover them unless Deda is ok with grey market. Before we get out the pitch forks we should get some facts. PBK should step up however.

Regardless if these are grey market, factory 2nds, fakes, or ????, it would be in Deda's best interest to step up and address the issue to protect their brand. Bottom line - this could impact (no pun intended) their reputation.

I bought these same bars from PBK about a year ago (although in the Superleggera RS finish), and when they were delivered, even though they were in all factory packaging, there was a noticeable scuff/scrape on the bar. Since it was on the curve area and not the clamping area, I figured I'd just suck it up, since returns to PBK are a pain in the ass, and that's what you get when searching for the cheapest online price.

Anyway, I rode the bars a few times, didn't like them and they've been sitting in my garage, waiting for me to put them up on sale on Paceline. Now, after reading this whole thread and seeing how other had the exact same bars with the exact same issue, I put them in the garbage yesterday.

^This needs a like button. ;)

Texbike

[unterhausen]

Anyway, I rode the bars a few times, didn't like them and they've been sitting in my garage, waiting for me to put them up on sale on Paceline. Now, after reading this whole thread and seeing how other had the exact same bars with the exact same issue, I put them in the garbage yesterday.
it would be interesting if you did a nickle test in the area where the OP's bars failed.

[djdj]

Anyway, I rode the bars a few times, didn't like them and they've been sitting in my garage, waiting for me to put them up on sale on Paceline. Now, after reading this whole thread and seeing how other had the exact same bars with the exact same issue, I put them in the garbage yesterday.

If the trashman has not yet come, I will take them "as is" for further analysis and (hopefully non-destructive) testing!

[Black Dog]

Regardless if these are grey market, factory 2nds, fakes, or ????, it would be in Deda's best interest to step up and address the issue to protect their brand. Bottom line - this could impact (no pun intended) their reputation.

Texbike

I agree, however, it has not been established that Deda even knows what is going on here? If no one has told them, what can they do?

[Blown Reek]

If the trashman has not yet come, I will take them "as is" for further analysis and (hopefully non-destructive) testing!

Unfortunately, trash day was yesterday. I could have at least taken a picture of the affected area, but they're now en route to a landfill, where I'm sure they'll compost in hundreds of thousands of years.

[MikeD]

My opinion is that if PBK is not an authorized seller of Deda, that the bar in question may be counterfeit.

[unterhausen]

I couldn't find information on how to tell if a Deda part was counterfeit.

[axel23]

I'll take this strange case of my broken bars right to Deda. If PBK is selling flawed products - whether counterfeit or ones that failed to pass QC - we all need to know.

[dddd]

I'll take this strange case of my broken bars right to Deda. If PBK is selling flawed products - whether counterfeit or ones that failed to pass QC - we all need to know.

It's just plain silly to think that a major handlebar supplier would sell off their factory rejects, assuming that some do get rejected.

Those would be parts that would never be allowed to see the light of day!

Counterfeit carbon parts otoh are not rare in this industry, and if someone would be found to be selling them, who more likely than a grey-market vendor? Remember, they're the ones whose business depends on buying from whoever is selling parts really cheap.

Putting name-brand carbon bars in the trash (really?) that you could easily test yourself, seems like foolishness!