OT: CF Playoffs

[ThasFACE]

We need them... very badly. All of this 11th-hour debate over who gets to play in the national championship game is the breeding ground of too much confusion. It shouldn't come down to which wins were slightly more impressive or which conference was slightly tougher or which losses were slightly worse. It should be settled, as far as it is practicable, on the field.

I simply do not understand why the BCS doesn't implement a playoff system with the BCS rankings used only for purposes of seeding. They could add just one more game and have a four-team playoff. There is more money in it and there would be far less confusion.

And by the way, my Wolverines got robbed. Also, Florida is going to get worked.

[litespeeder3]

Everyone knows that my Georgetown University should be playing for the college football national championship this year. But all kidding aside, does it really matter? Colleges and universities are academic institutions. The best colleges and universities such as the Ivy Leagues and others do not have any interest in fielding a competitive team. IMO, schools of higher learning should focus on competing to be the best in academics and not sports.

I do understand the argument about college football bringing in money. But, I argue that strong academics can potentially bring in much more money than sports do to a university. The Harvard endowment is in the tens of billions of dollars. That's right, I said billions. The Ivys and the MITs and the Stanfords have huge endowments that are much larger than those schools that place such importance on their football teams. Let's move football to where it belongs, out of the colleges and into a semi-pro league. When it comes right down to it, the college football national champion is completely meaningless.

:bike:

[slowgoing]

Michigan got hosed.

[keno]

I believe that the underlying issue of a play-off system, which I would like to see, is what it may do to the bowl games and their importance. To work, a play-off system could work if two of the bowl games became semi-finals for the championship game. That will require lots of cooperation by the bowls, tv, the whole ball of wax.

keno

[stevep]

When it comes right down to it, the college football national champion is completely meaningless.

as is every athletic achievement...and a lot of other things. does not mean people are not interested.

huge endowment does not necessarily imply academic excellence.
harvard in particular is notorious for dramatic grade inflation as well as gigantic legacy admission policies that can get less talented academics into supposed elite programs.
* not picking on harvard really...just making a point... the endowment is more a function of many, many years on the scene...terrific investment strategies and cultivation of an elite culture....somehow they got bill gates to kick in 20 mill or 100 mil or something even though he was kicked out of harvard when enrolled because of his unauthorized use of computers on campus ( irony here )
how is , say, georgia tech , going to cultivate this kind of endowment... by its football program..thats how.

[ClutchCargo]

Michigan got hosed.

no one "needs" a college football playoff. college sports is just another form of entertainment. and to that end all the debate - :argue: - makes it more entertaining, no?

sorry, Mich. fans, your team did not get hosed. that largely patsy schedule set the team up for disappointment. :crap: Florida played stronger opponents. Time for their shot at the Buckeyes. :fight:

No let's see, anyone out there know what bowl game Duke is playing in? :banana:

[Keith A]

Also, Florida is going to get worked.I certainly hope not!!!

http://members.tripod.com/~drphilgood/images2/gatoranim.gif

[RPS]

If Ohio State played Michigan again, how would we know that they both don't suck compared to SEC teams (or any other conference) regardless of the outcome?

At least this way there will be a clear winner. If Ohio State wins, there is no doubt they are best. If Florida wins, then they will have more wins than anyone else after playing the nation's toughest schedule.

Personally, I'm glad the coaches overrode the computers.

[sevencyclist]

If Michigan was in the championship game, and they beat Ohio by one one point. Should Michigan be the champion, or should Ohio State be the champion by the virtue of higher combined score from the two games?

[72gmc]

If Michigan was in the championship game, and they beat Ohio by one one point. Should Michigan be the champion, or should Ohio State be the champion by the virtue of higher combined score from the two games?

In that scenario, Boise State would be the champion after winning their bowl game and remaining the only undefeated team.

And then civilization as we know it would end.

[mosca]

Ohio St. playing Michigan in the last game of the regular season was, for all intents and purposes, a playoff game. Michigan may well be the #2 team in the country, but they proved they are not the #1 team, so I'm glad Florida will get a shot at it.

And if USC can bounce back from that MP loss to UCLA, the Rose Bowl game could be a good one.

[Sandy]

In that scenario, Boise State would be the champion after winning their bowl game and remaining the only undefeated team.

And then civilization as we know it would end.

If not then, surely after I win next year's Tour de France. :)


Speedy Sandy

[Frustration]

I simply do not understand why the BCS doesn't implement a playoff system with the BCS rankings used only for purposes of seeding.


Because then the confusion moves to the 5th pace team if you take the top 4... Or the 7th if you take the top 6...

And there's more confusion the lower you go in the rankings.



Like custom bikes, someone is gonna ***** no matter how great it is...

[ThasFACE]

If Michigan was in the championship game, and they beat Ohio by one one point. Should Michigan be the champion, or should Ohio State be the champion by the virtue of higher combined score from the two games?

Michigan would be the legitimate champion because OSU is evil in all ways.

[davids]

...And then civilization as we know it would end.
And would this be a bad thing?

The rankings involve so much extrapolation and finessing that they are completely meaningless. Not worth the effort, atmo. But then, I find college football a troubling institution.

So, as an alumni of U of M, here's my opinion: Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Fat Robert]

news flash:

the bowl system is ignorant and depraved

[gt6267a]

how is , say, georgia tech , going to cultivate this kind of endowment... by its football program..thats how.

in terms of endowment gatech is a funny example due to the state sponsorship. as well, the football program at gatech is seperate entity from the institute. there is some funny biz about all that but gatech's sporting programs do not have the same relationship to the school as most of the big state universities. i used to know the details about all this, but seem to have forgotten it all the day i left campus.

a funny story about the football program, as a student, i saw an older man talking to football players after practice one night. it was cold and my dorm was on the other side of campus. i asked that guy for a ride home having no idea who he was. i just assumed he was an alum. turns out it was the head coach of the team. he seemed to think it was a big deal that the head coach was giving a student a ride. of course, i appreciated the lift. when i got back to the dorm, i mentioned that coach whathisname gave me a ride home. no one knew who he was.

i'd be willing to wager $1 that if we polled 1000 students at random from the top 50 ranked football teams. Gatech would have the least number of students know the answer to the question, "What is the name of coach of the football team." or "how many games has the football team won this year."

[72gmc]

Not to derail the chugging train of football indignation THASface is driving (and well I might add) but the whole multi-billion-dollar endowment and ridiculously high tuition combo is a little puzzling to me.

The academic barriers should be appropriately exclusive for a school like Harvard, so why add an economic barrier that keeps smart, deserving kids away? It would hardly dent their endowment to have a tuition that isn't stratospheric. Make the senators' sons kick in to the new building fund if you just have to have more of their dough.

Edit: Re-reading my comment, I'm way too idealistic about higher education.

[ThasFACE]

The academic barriers should be appropriately exclusive for a school like Harvard, so why add an economic barrier that keeps smart, deserving kids away? It would hardly dent their endowment to have a tuition that isn't stratospheric.

I wonder the same thing. Yale's endowment (18 billion for the moment), for example, earned nearly 23% last year. Tuition (including room, board and books) comes to about 40 grand. Also, Yale is _extremely_ aggressive in soliciting alumni donations (My Step-Father and many friends seem to be constantly fending off those vultures).

What's the point of building all this wealth if they are not going to use it? why not cut tuition? Are they simply fighting for the title of 'richest?' Is 'endowment building' Yale's/Harvard's/Stanford's/etc football?

[ss-jimbo]

Michigan got hosed.

Michigan had their shot at OSU, too bad they blew it.

[bcm119]

Maybe it has something to do with giving the kids a break in December. They do have finals to study for. Its hard enough to get an education while you're gone for half the weekends in the fall and getting worked over every afternoon in practice.

[Len J]

other than Michigan....who did Ohio State play?

I question if they are the best team in the country with that patsy schedule........they got to be #1 by beating what turned out to be a weak texas team.

Florida is interesting......27 starters are freshman........they could either get blown out of win.

Who knows what team will show up.

My playoff model

Shorten all seasons to no more than 11 games before playoff

8 team playoff 7 games:

Rotate first round amongst 4 second teir bowls:

Semi's and final rotated between Rose, Sugar and orange bowl.

Play First Round games Christmas week
Semi's on New Years
Final one week later.

Not that different than what we have now.

Seeds this year would be
1.) Ohio State
2.) Florida
3.) Michigan
4.) LSU
5.) USC
6.) Louisville
7.) Wisconsin
8.) Boise State


First Round
Ohio State vs Boise State
Florida Vs Wisconsin
Michigan Vs Louisville
LSU vs USC

Second Round
Ohio St/Boise St Winner vs LSU/USC winner
Flor/Wisc winner vs Mich/Louisville winner

How cool would that be?

Len

[72gmc]

That would be very cool, Len.

2 thoughts heading in to the postseason:
Given all that's happened this year, the injury to Michael Bush at Louisville is a bigger "what if" than ever... they'd probably be undefeated with him, and no "weak conference" pushover either.

And no offense to West Virginia, but I really wanted Rutgers to win the other night; that Steve Slaton fumble late in the 2nd half probably would have done it if the officials hadn't blown the whistle so early. From "win for the BCS" to something called the Texas Bowl? THEY got hosed.

[stevep]

I wonder the same thing. Yale's endowment (18 billion for the moment), for example, earned nearly 23% last year. Tuition (including room, board and books) comes to about 40 grand. Also, Yale is _extremely_ aggressive in soliciting alumni donations (My Step-Father and many friends seem to be constantly fending off those vultures).

What's the point of building all this wealth if they are not going to use it? why not cut tuition? Are they simply fighting for the title of 'richest?' Is 'endowment building' Yale's/Harvard's/Stanford's/etc football?

i pd my 2 kids tuitions to private colleges ( both cornell u ). i came out with only 2 clear visions. the school was excellent. it is a business.
i wish i had the same model for a business... people beating down the doors to get in, limited allocation, tuition increases of 5-6-8-9% a year... a very profitable business.
on the harvard endowment... they could have free tuition for all with 1% of the interest earned every year on the endowment...but that would cut out an additional revenue source...and the largess of the rich benefactors who get entre.
i use harvard only because it is local and the richest and because they took that idiot george bush and gave him some slight degree of credibility in the mba program.
it is a very impressive campus... sitting in the main library is the only gutenburg bible in the usa ( i thk )... kinda cool.

[ThasFACE]

How cool would that be?

That would be swell in my book.

Regarding OSU, I'm inclined to believe that they definitely should be #1 since they beat Michigan. And, seriously, anyone who is fortunate enough to beat Michigan at anything is pretty clearly a world beater.

they took that idiot george bush and gave him some slight degree of credibility in the mba program

B-schools, more than any other program, are likely to accept someone based solely on the likelihood of substantial donations. IMHO.

[gt6267a]

40k x 6650 (under grad enrollment at H) = $266M. Though that seems like a lot of coin, with respect to the size of the endowment, it is not really a crazy number to float. it makes me wonder what they really do with the endowment other than have it.

[Tom]

40k x 6650 (under grad enrollment at H) = $266M. Though that seems like a lot of coin, with respect to the size of the endowment, it is not really a crazy number to float. it makes me wonder what they really do with the endowment other than have it.

You're assuming 40K covers the expenses to teach the dummies. Maybe it doesn't. Some of those kids are really stupid and it takes real talent to get through to them. Plus you have a lot of big old buildings to take care of and old books and art to buy and jealously guard. Also college presidents, when they get together, like to brag about all the prizes their research types are winning so you have to cough up some dough to cover that.

[spiderlake]

You could also ask other than Ohio State who did Michigan play? Central? Vanderbilt? Notre Dame?? Ball State at the end of the season (and Ball State played them tough)?? As it stands, both teams are at the top of the Big 10, always a tough conference. Michigan was simply outcoached and outplayed by Ohio State this year and came out second in the Big 10. Florida won their conference so it doesn't seem fair that a second place team could play for the NC.

Take my comments with a grain of salt. I went to Michigan State so I don't have a leg to stand on..... unless this conversation turns to basketball! : )

Michigan - USC should be a good game although I hope USC shows up. They looked awful against UCLA. The Florida - Michigan matchup should be fun to watch. I'm hoping the Big 10 does well. :beer:


other than Michigan....who did Ohio State play?

I question if they are the best team in the country with that patsy schedule........they got to be #1 by beating what turned out to be a weak texas team.

Florida is interesting......27 starters are freshman........they could either get blown out of win.

Who knows what team will show up.

My playoff model

Shorten all seasons to no more than 11 games before playoff

8 team playoff 7 games:

Rotate first round amongst 4 second teir bowls:

Semi's and final rotated between Rose, Sugar and orange bowl.

Play First Round games Christmas week
Semi's on New Years
Final one week later.

Not that different than what we have now.

Seeds this year would be
1.) Ohio State
2.) Florida
3.) Michigan
4.) LSU
5.) USC
6.) Louisville
7.) Wisconsin
8.) Boise State


First Round
Ohio State vs Boise State
Florida Vs Wisconsin
Michigan Vs Louisville
LSU vs USC

Second Round
Ohio St/Boise St Winner vs LSU/USC winner
Flor/Wisc winner vs Mich/Louisville winner

How cool would that be?

Len

[stevep]

You're assuming 40K covers the expenses to teach the dummies. Maybe it doesn't. Some of those kids are really stupid and it takes real talent to get through to them. Plus you have a lot of big old buildings to take care of and old books and art to buy and jealously guard. Also college presidents, when they get together, like to brag about all the prizes their research types are winning so you have to cough up some dough to cover that.

dont forget that the whole scam is tax free also...unlike some/ a few/ several other large businesses.

[67-59]

My playoff model

Shorten all seasons to no more than 11 games before playoff

8 team playoff 7 games:

Rotate first round amongst 4 second teir bowls:

Semi's and final rotated between Rose, Sugar and orange bowl.

Play First Round games Christmas week
Semi's on New Years
Final one week later.

Not that different than what we have now.

Seeds this year would be
1.) Ohio State
2.) Florida
3.) Michigan
4.) LSU
5.) USC
6.) Louisville
7.) Wisconsin
8.) Boise State


First Round
Ohio State vs Boise State
Florida Vs Wisconsin
Michigan Vs Louisville
LSU vs USC

Second Round
Ohio St/Boise St Winner vs LSU/USC winner
Flor/Wisc winner vs Mich/Louisville winner

How cool would that be?

Len


It would be AWESOME!!!! Not the playoff necessarily, but because your scenario doesn't mention Notre Dame once! Too bad the BC$$$ doesn't get the message.

[keno]

employee of a university with a first rate, national football program is likely the football coach. The AVERAGE salary of division I-A coaches is $950,000, before the icing. Here's an eye-popping article on coach compensation. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2006-11-16-coaches-salaries-cover_x.htm.

keno

[ClutchCargo]

I'm trying to figure this out: How is it that Florida has 27 starters :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ss-jimbo]

I'm trying to figure this out: How is it that Florida has 27 starters :confused: :confused: :confused:

I think he meant that Florida has played 27 freshman this season (a very high number indeed).

Also, at least at UF, the coachs' paychecks don't come out of University general funds. The Athletic programs have completely separate budgets from the Academic programs.

[stevep]

I'm trying to figure this out: How is it that Florida has 27 starters :confused: :confused: :confused:

maybe no math majors in the program?
its possible.

[Len J]

I'm trying to figure this out: How is it that Florida has 27 starters :confused: :confused: :confused:

Number of freshman that have started....d'uh...I'm so lame.

Len

[J.Greene]

I feel for Michigan. As a Gator I'm very pleased though. Michigan could have prevented this...by winning against Ohio State. The Michigan coach did make a great point in which I'm inclined to agree. He said that if USC would have won, Michigan would still be #3 and FL #4. Should FL jump Over Michigan just because USC lost?

One other problem I see.....Ohio state has 53 days off until the bowl game. that's unfair to the players atmo. But, GO GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JG

[Bradford]

the whole multi-billion-dollar endowment and ridiculously high tuition combo is a little puzzling to me.

The academic barriers should be appropriately exclusive for a school like Harvard, so why add an economic barrier that keeps smart, deserving kids away?
Considering that I am 40 years old and still paying student loans, that would be nice. And moving in that direction, Princeton has eliminated all student loans, now they just give grants.

However, even considering that it would have helped me, I do not think it is in the best interest of the students to make school free.

I was a poor boy who went to a school that draws plenty of rich kids. Although there were many exceptions, most kids who were responsible for at least part of their tuition worked harder than most kids who didn't need to worry about the money. I think schools with big endowments make students pay so that they work harder. I know I worked harder because it was I was paying for it myself. There were many mornings that I didn't want to get out of bed, but I made it to class because that particular class cost me a lot of money.

In addition, at elite schools, there is no economic barrier. If you are accepted, they will put together a package of grants and loans so you can afford to go. It will put a strain on you, but you will be able to afford it.

Oh, and by the way, a national championship in college sports is a repulsive concept. I say no athletic scholarships and no post season. Have real students play sports and make the league championship the end goal. If you enjoy professional sports, and I do, leave it to the professionals. Just leave college sports to students.

[J.Greene]

I was a poor boy who went to a school that draws plenty of rich kids. Although there were many exceptions, most kids who were responsible for at least part of their tuition worked harder than most kids who didn't need to worry about the money. I think schools with big endowments make students pay so that they work harder. I know I worked harder because it was I was paying for it myself. There were many mornings that I didn't want to get out of bed, but I made it to class because that particular class cost me a lot of money.


My own experience mirrors this. I paid for 2 summers out of my own pocket. One of those summers I worked 2 jobs to go to school. My grades were better those summers than any other semester iirc.

JG

[72gmc]

Good point, Bradford. I, too, worked through college. But I can't help it--I know it's a business, and I still shake my head at the mountain of endowment some schools sit on while charging remarkable sums for a degree.

On your other point: playing co-ed flag football is much more appealing than being hit by a Buckeye linebacker. Especially the co-ed part....

[ThasFACE]

pco-ed flag football

The 'Mud Bowl' at Michigan is a great tradition.

Every year a fraternity's field is soaked to the point of muddiness and full-contact football is played by rival houses. Before the fraternity game (which is brutal, let me tell you), though, there typically is a sorority game of the same variety.

Dangerous amounts of beer are usually involved, which often leads to fistfights between the (generally) very attractive sororities.

It's a good time.

[ss-jimbo]

Although there were many exceptions, most kids who were responsible for at least part of their tuition worked harder than most kids who didn't need to worry about the money.

That certainly rings true. Consider both candidates from the last presidential election. They had mediocre grades (Bush's were in fact better than Kerry's), but it seems that lousy grades didn't hold them back.

And I guess you don't have to be particularly bright to be in the Skull and Bones Society either (or whatever it's called).

[sevencyclist]

Below is snipped from ESPN

As the debate over the official BCS results started to heat up Sunday evening, I glanced at a nearby TV monitor and saw the Seahawks and Broncos about to kick off.

It was one of the more meaningful matchups of Week 13 in the NFL, but the stakes weren't nearly as high as they had been when USC and Florida took the field in college games the previous day. So, I started thinking, "How much different would a game like this be if the NFL decided its championship the same way college football does?"

Imagine an NFL with the only playoff game being the Super Bowl. Imagine a system of voters and computers deciding which two teams would play in the Super Bowl. Try to imagine this being a top story on today's sports pages:

Colts Get Kicked Where It Hurts

When Tennessee's Rob Bironas kicked a game-winning 60-yard field goal with seven seconds remaining, the Titans not only handed Indianapolis its second loss of the season but also might have dealt a super blow to the Colts' Super Bowl chances.

Top 10 in the SBCS
Here are the top 10 in the latest Super Bowl Championship Series standings.
1. Chargers -- 0.987
2. Bears -- 0.953
3. Colts -- 0.945
4. Patriots -- 0.904
5. Cowboys -- 0.904
6. Ravens -- 0.885
7. Saints -- 0.786
8. Bengals -- 0.776
9. Jaguars -- 0.716
10. Jets -- 0.693

For the complete SBCS standings, click here.
Indianapolis fell to 10-2 on the season and was passed in the Super Bowl Championship Series Standings by Chicago, which beat Minnesota on Sunday despite another shaky offensive performance. The Bears hold the No. 2 spot in this week's standings behind San Diego. The top two teams on Jan. 1 will play in the Super Bowl on Feb. 4.

Because the Bears have the easiest remaining schedule in the NFL -- at St. Louis (5-7), Tampa Bay (3-9), at Detroit (2-10), Green Bay (4-8) -- the Colts can't expect Chicago to lose again. More than likely, Indianapolis will need to win out to have any chance of ending its season with consecutive games at Dolphin Stadium, site of Super Bowl XLI. That would include a win at Miami in the regular-season finale, but the Colts also would have to win at Jacksonville this week, versus Cincinnati next week and at Houston on Christmas Eve.

If Indianapolis can do that, however, it has a great chance to be Super Bowl-bound. The Bears have an advantage of just eight-hundredths of a point over the Colts in the SBCS, and Chicago's lofty computer numbers are sure to take a hit from the weak remaining schedule. BCS analysts predict the Bears will not finish as the No. 1 team in the computers if the Chargers or Colts can win out.

"We just have to take care of our own business and not worry about the standings," Indianapolis coach Tony Dungy said Monday. "We can't control the Bears or the Chargers. All we can control is winning football games."

The Chargers have won their last six games but are certainly not a lock to make it 10 straight. Upcoming games against Denver, Kansas City and especially at Seattle could be difficult. If San Diego loses one of those games and Indianapolis also loses again, it's possible that New England could sneak into the Super Bowl through the back door. It would require many voters to drop the Chargers several places on their ballots, though, so it's probably not likely unless San Diego loses at home against Arizona to end the year.

The only other team that seems to still have a prayer of reaching Super Bowl XLI is Dallas. The Cowboys are fourth in the polls but are being held back in the computers because of their four losses. Dallas really needs the Chargers and Colts both to lose a couple more times down the stretch and hope that enough voters don't want to see a rematch of a late regular-season game between Chicago and New England. If such sentiment is prevalent, the Cowboys could leap over the Patriots in the final poll.

Dallas would just have to hope its momentum wouldn't turn to rust during the 34 days without a game leading up to the Super Bowl.

"You guys [media] are getting way ahead of yourselves with all that stuff," Cowboys coach Bill Parcells said. "I'm just happy we may have found a kicker."