Ti Speedvagens for 2019

[m_moses]

The new guidebook says that you can order a titanium Speedvagen this year. But it will cost you . . . https://www.speedvagen.com/full-custom-ti-2019

I want . . .

[bob heinatz]

They make a great riding bike but their price is always premium.

[Lanternrouge]

Based on how they do the other bikes, it seem that the price should be for a complete bike. Nonetheless, the price is somewhat in line with what other "premium" builders get for a frameset with all the "trimmings," such as most expensive finish option, etc. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of how other people are enjoying spending their money.

[madsciencenow]

I've always been curious if the price of their steel offerings justifies the price? The paint is always amazing but what I'm wondering is, is the ride quality that much better or on par with the best in the business? Probably a subjective question and a bit of a divergence from the post but I'm curious, nonetheless.

[jtbadge]

I've always been curious if the price of their steel offerings justifies the price? The paint is always amazing but what I'm wondering is, is the ride quality that much better or on par with the best in the business? Probably a subjective question and a bit of a divergence from the post but I'm curious, nonetheless.

To a point, a bike's a bike.

But they really know and care about fit for every buyer, and the construction and finish work is really great.

[thegunner]

I've always been curious if the price of their steel offerings justifies the price? The paint is always amazing but what I'm wondering is, is the ride quality that much better or on par with the best in the business? Probably a subjective question and a bit of a divergence from the post but I'm curious, nonetheless.

eh, i love mine, but if you asked me if i'd get a speedvagen again if mine were busted... probably not :) they ride well, but probably not more than an equivalent desalvo, strong, indyfab, english.

[nmrt]

+1
Thats my take in it as well. If a bike fits you, I doubt anyone can tell the difference in performance/ride quality between a baum, speedvagen, firefly, spectrum from a dean or a strong or a desalvo.

at least this is how i justify saving my money.
;);)

eh, i love mine, but if you asked me if i'd get a speedvagen again if mine were busted... probably not :) they ride well, but probably not more than an equivalent desalvo, strong, indyfab, english.

[madsciencenow]

Kinda what I was thinking.

Beyond the fit, I wonder if ride quality of a custom build is more the fault of the customer than the builder. What I mean is that the customer really doesn't know what they want or they just can't adequately communicate this to the builder?

[nmrt]

you are correct. it could be the customers fault. but my point was that if the any of the builders i listed above builds a bike that the customer likes, i doubt, massive tube manipulations --- swaging, butting, and obviously paint -- will do barely anything to make the bike ride better. in an objectively discernible fashion. and if it does, it is my belief, that the rider will not be able to tell the difference.

i chose swaging, butting etc to make a point because in many cases these techniques with elaborate paint drive up the cost of a baum, speedvagen, and firefly. but i doubt, a customer can tell the difference.

i remember some forumites alleging that they can in the past. well maybe. how can one argue with that in the absence of a controlled study. but i for one, would not be able to tell the difference.

in my mind, one big difference in ride quality despite swaging, butting etc comes from 23c versus 28c tires! :banana:

having said all of this, would i want to own a speedvagen, baum etc.
i honestly do not know. i think for me it is a money decision. no surprise here. if i had the money, i probably would buy a porsche gt3. so, yeah. i could see myself buying a speedvagen. but then again, who knows.

one builder i really want to buy a bike from is spectrum. again, no rational reason. i just want to, knowing full well that i could not differentiate a spectrum from a lynskey, same geo, blindfolded. but boy, i wish i were wrong.

and i know the clock is ticking with spectrum.


Kinda what I was thinking.

Beyond the fit, I wonder if ride quality of a custom build is more the fault of the customer than the builder. What I mean is that the customer really doesn't know what they want or they just can't adequately communicate this to the builder?

[colker]

A lot of ride quality comes from the fork. If i am paying tall prices for a handmade road bicycle, i want a handmade metal fork. I want the full structure to be made at this level. Paint is decoration. Titanium is just a material.
If i have to get an enve carbon fork i may as well buy a production bike.

[nmrt]

hmmm...i have heard that before. never had a chance to try any metal fork on a road bike.

would you prefer a ti fork on a ti bike, or does a steel fork have certain characteristics that ti could not replicate in a fork...

A lot of ride quality comes from the fork. If i am paying tall prices for a handmade road bicycle, i want a handmade metal fork. I want the full structure to be made at this level. Paint is decoration. Titanium is just a material.
If i have to get an enve carbon fork i may as well buy a production bike.

[rwsaunders]

I understand the SV approach to making and selling bikes and it’s served Sacha et al very well. With Ti, I’m hanging with the proven and experienced builders out there like Strong, Firefly, Holland, Moots, Seven, Ericksen and the HAMPCO crew...that’s a helluva cast of all-stars, with many more that haven’t been mentioned of course.

[NYCfixie]

$6900 for Ti Frame/Fork/Paint?

I have no idea what the paint cost is (approx $1000?) but that appears to be a very large premium more than what other builders charge for bare Ti and what I would consider some very nice options.

$4900 FireFly All-Road Ti
$4600 Seven Evergreen SL Ti (Seven does not post frame/fork prices but I backed out what I think the kit/group costs based on my own recent purchase from them)
$4500 Hampsten Il Mostro Ti
$4000 44 Bikes Huntsman Ti (starting price before add-ons such as 44mm HT)
$3200 Carl Strong Gravel Ti (base price, fork not included in price)


I am sure someone else can list a few other well known builders and prices for comparison.

[nmrt]

i have made these money comparisons before. but really, it really does not matter.

if you want a speedvagen and you have the money, why not! who cares about the cost and whether it is a better bike or not. you want a speedvagen. you have the money. go for it! :banana:

$6900 for Ti Frame/Fork/Paint?

I have no idea what the paint cost is (approx $1000?) but that appears to be a very large premium more than what other builders charge for bare Ti and what I would consider some very nice options.

$4900 FireFly All-Road Ti
$4600 Seven Evergreen SL Ti (Seven does not post frame/fork prices but I backed out what I think the kit/group costs based on my own recent purchase from them)
$4500 Hampsten Il Mostro Ti
$4000 44 Bikes Huntsman Ti (starting price before add-ons such as 44mm HT)
$3200 Carl Strong Gravel Ti (base price, fork not included in price)


I am sure someone else can list a few other well known builders and prices for comparison.

[prototoast]

If i have to get an enve carbon fork i may as well buy a production bike.

I have nothing against anyone who wants a custom fork, but as someone who owns many custom bikes with stock forks (and builds frames designed around stock forks), I can assure you that it's not anything like a production. Even within a given fork, the builder has a lot of control over fit, handling, and ride quality. When you then consider the options for stock forks, there's a lot of flexibility that goes well beyond production frames.

If you want a custom fork, get a custom fork and you'll probably love it, but if you're avoiding custom bikes with stock forks, you'll miss out on a lot of great bicycles.

[pdonk]

Seems a similar conversation comes around every year the look book is released.

As a new SV owner and to not to be too much of an apologist a few thoughts/observations:

1) The ti bike includes the carbon topper and seat tube, prices quoted above are for all ti bikes - may be more fair to compare mixed material bikes - the SV is still (significantly?) more, but not as much as the numbers above lead one to believe.
2) Prices quoted above do not include paint / finishes. As an example a moots anno job is about $600. I have to assume, the firefly ones are in the same range or more. I have really liked some of the firefly designs, the moots not so much.
3) The SV ti comes with a tapered headtube, PF30 BB and flatmount brakes all of which are extras on the firefly.
4) In terms of a production carbon fork, SV differs the rake depending on the design to get the handling they want. I assume they also vary it for their production bikes by size.
5) I also find it odd that SV charges extra for a frame for heavier people and sprinters. One would hope that a custom frame takes into account hose things, and does not ding people.

Of greater interest to me, and it would likely change my decision to buy a SV again, is that they have added another fitter to the workshop. I wonder how that will change the level of service and types of bikes coming from them. Meeting Sacha and talking to him was part of the allure of product for me.

[Pegoready]

Anyone know why the Lookbook posts this demo/used frame for sale for $3500 OBO:

https://www.speedvagen.com/frame-sets

when a PL'er is selling it for half that here?

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=227400&highlight=speedvagen

[rallizes]

Well that’s a bit weird

[joosttx]

compared to Baums it is a good price. :banana:

[Peter P.]

hmmm... never had a chance to try any metal fork on a road bike.

Ah, you young guys; I'm tellin' ya...!

[beeatnik]

I have nothing against anyone who wants a custom fork, but as someone who owns many custom bikes with stock forks (and builds frames designed around stock forks), I can assure you that it's not anything like a production. Even within a given fork, the builder has a lot of control over fit, handling, and ride quality. When you then consider the options for stock forks, there's a lot of flexibility that goes well beyond production frames.

If you want a custom fork, get a custom fork and you'll probably love it, but if you're avoiding custom bikes with stock forks, you'll miss out on a lot of great bicycles.

"My fitter says my offset is 5.89793 and I need a 116.3 stem with a 54.8TT and 63ST (non sloping frame). I do 5 workouts weekly with Training Peaks and 2 coaches. I've never raced. Ya, I'm ok with a 43mm rake. I'm 6'5"

[colker]

My fitter says my offset is 5.89793 and I need a 116.3 stem with a 54.8TT and 63ST (non sloping frame). I do 5 workouts weekly with Training Peaks and 2 coaches. I've never raced. Ya, I'm ok with a 43mm rake. I'm 6'5"

And you ride Colnagos, not custom frames.;)

[beeatnik]

Colker, my hypothetical (neurotic) rider is slightly more of a freak than I. And, you're right, Colnago makes it a moot point.

[colker]

Colker, my hypothetical (neurotic) rider is slightly more of a freak than I. And, you're right, Colnago makes it a moot point.
Cycling rationale is 99% fiction when it comes to certain stuff. I am not against it.. on the contrary: truth is boring. Successfull builders like Sacha, Colnago and others.. are good story tellers. No doubt.

[Kirk007]

I wonder who will be welding? DeSalvo? Dave Levy?

I certainly don't see the value penciling out at +2k vs going straight to the tried and true builders across the globe. Heck take that 2k, get a bike from Crisp/DeRosa/Bixxis, pick it up in and ride around Italy.

But if you gotta have a SV - I'm sure they'll be good bikes.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[beeatnik]

Cycling rationale is 99% fiction when it comes to certain stuff. I am not against it.. on the contrary: truth is boring. Successfull builders like Sacha, Colnago and others.. are good story tellers. No doubt.

But, just to be clear. I think it's so weird to obsess over the minutiae and not care about the fork. I tend not to fixate.

[dmurphey]

A lot of ride quality comes from the fork. If i am paying tall prices for a handmade road bicycle, i want a handmade metal fork. I want the full structure to be made at this level. Paint is decoration. Titanium is just a material.
If i have to get an enve carbon fork i may as well buy a production bike.

Yes! Agree wholeheartedly, if I spend $$$ on a nice bike I expect the feel of high quality thin wall steel or Ti and not carbon, first for the fork, where steel is better, and then also for the bulk of the frame. I'm looking to fillet brazed steel or Ti next time around. Ellis would be exquisite. Lyon would be more down to earth.

[jm714]

5) I also find it odd that SV charges extra for a frame for heavier people and sprinters. One would hope that a custom frame takes into account hose things, and does not ding people.

When I saw this the other day it irritated me. I had been saving up for SV, but now I think I’m going to go in another direction. I’m 6’5” and the LB’s run between 205 and 215 depending on my beer and desert intake.

[ERK55]

When I saw this the other day it irritated me. I had been saving up for SV, but now I think I’m going to go in another direction. I’m 6’5” and the LB’s run between 205 and 215 depending on my beer and desert intake.

So by American standards you are a toothpick.

[pdonk]

When I saw this the other day it irritated me. I had been saving up for SV, but now I think I’m going to go in another direction. I’m 6’5” and the LB’s run between 205 and 215 depending on my beer and desert intake.

I am about 205. The "regular" tubing chosen for mine rides really nice. Unless you want a tank, I don't know if there is a need for a bigger downturn and chainstay bridge. Read dave Kirk's take on downtubes and drivetrain stiffness. It's interesting.

[vincenz]

Everyone is jumping on the ti bandwagon these days. The more metal bikes out there, the better, I say.

[Mikej]

Cycling rationale is 99% fiction when it comes to certain stuff. I am not against it.. on the contrary: truth is boring. Successfull builders like Sacha, Colnago and others.. are good story tellers. No doubt.

Maybe its the placebo effect.

[fignon's barber]

Deciding whether a brand is "worth it" is a very personal thing. At the custom level, you're really making the decision based on whether you buy into the whole package, or ethos. It's not about the bike only.
I chose a Bixxis for several reasons: I appreciated the heritage and experience, felt comfortable communicating with Doriano, but also wanted to support his start up business ( he could have easily sat back and collected a nice dividend at DeRosa). Everyone has their own reasons, that's what makes it interesting.

[vincenz]

Deciding whether a brand is "worth it" is a very personal thing. At the custom level, you're really making the decision based on whether you buy into the whole package, or ethos. It's not about the bike only.

I chose a Bixxis for several reasons: I appreciated the heritage and experience, felt comfortable communicating with Doriano, but also wanted to support his start up business ( he could have easily sat back and collected a nice dividend at DeRosa). Everyone has their own reasons, that's what makes it interesting.



Agreed.. at this level, bikes are all made well using pretty much the same materials. The only differences mainly are aesthetics and “brand” or image that one is buying.

It’s more about paint and how the buyer connects with the builder or brand more than anything else.

That said, I wouldn’t buy a SV for those very reasons of my own.