2019 Amstel Gold-who ya got?

[efaust_o]

going with Sagan, I think he's recovered enough....

[GregL]

Alaphilippe

[Jaybee]

MvdP.

[fa63]

Damn what a finish that was

[FlashUNC]

Van Der Poel is God.

[thwart]

Van Der Poel is God.

That was unbelievable.

[weisan]

Van Der Poel is God.

No.

Van Der Poel is the new Peter Sagan.

[yarg]

Best finish for a race I've seen in some time, leaves me thinking though that the team director for Alaphilippe was asleep.

[KarlC]

Anyone have a link to the finish ?

.

[72gmc]

Go to cyclingfans dot com, they already have the final 2k posted.

[Chris]

That was unbelievable.

Absolutely. Just wow.

[KarlC]

Go to cyclingfans dot com, they already have the final 2k posted.

https://sporza.be/nl/2019/04/21/onvoorstelbaar-van-der-poel-komt-nog-op-en-over-de-leiders-en-w/

[GregL]

Fuglsang started the cat-and-mouse and Alaphilippe obliged him by playing the game. Instead of a two-up sprint, their gamble failed and they were swarmed by the chasers. VDP was superb.

Greg

[KarlC]

Fuglsang started the cat-and-mouse and Alaphilippe obliged him by playing the game. Instead of a two-up sprint, their gamble failed and they were swarmed by the chasers. VDP was superb.

Greg

100% right

.

[sipmeister]

https://sporza.be/nl/2019/04/21/onvoorstelbaar-van-der-poel-komt-nog-op-en-over-de-leiders-en-w/

Thanks!

[bobswire]

Fuglsang started the cat-and-mouse and Alaphilippe obliged him by playing the game. Instead of a two-up sprint, their gamble failed and they were swarmed by the chasers. VDP was superb.

Greg

I guess we shouldn't be surprised by him after watching how dominate he is in cyclocross, I like his go for it attitude with an engine to match dragging the bunch to catch the leaders then dropping them all.

[cal_len1]

I saw somewhere that Fuglsang was getting incorrect time gaps from the team car, so it's possible that was part of the issue in getting caught.

With the form MvdP was showing this year, his competitors have to be terrified for the years to come. Dragging the pack back, and outsprinting them, was one of the most incredible performances I've seen in a while.

[don'TreadOnMe]

Thanks x2 for the Sporza link. That's a great way to spend 6 minutes.
VDP is something else, gotta sit here grinning and shaking my head :-)

[Joxster]

Will he be with DQS next season?

[Gummee]

Will he be with DQS next season?

Last I read, he was going to honor his contract

M

[FlashUNC]

Will he be with DQS next season?

Way this is going, DQS should just buy the team.

[MattTuck]

That was fun to watch.

Wonder if he has stage racing potential or strictly a one day racer? If he isn't interested in stage races, seems he could continue CX and ride the classics.

Was trying to describe this to a family member (who doesn't understand cycling) at Easter dinner, and the closest I could get was if Joe Montana's grand son decided to play baseball as a pitcher, and then decided he wanted to give football a try, got signed to the Cleveland Browns, and in his first few games, started throwing touch downs like Patrick Mahomes did this season.

Not a perfect analogy, but exciting final 5k!

[pasadena]

VdP is the Dutch second coming.
He's winning without a team, so there is no pull for a strong team.
$ and Dutch roots will grab him next year.

Alafpolak and Fugelsang lost the race as much as VdP won but it was a group effort for a spectacular finish LOL

Kasia was awesome and won in big style, as she always does when she wins.

Great wins, can't wait for LBL and Fleche

[Ruimteaapje]

Will he be with DQS next season?
Out of the question. With Corendon he is one of the best paid riders of the pro peloton and Mathieu can do whatever he wants: a full CX season, some spring classics, then on a mountainbike for the rest of the season before returning to CX, without having to worry about team orders or tactics. With DQS he would be pushed into joined leadership, forced to hold his horses when Alaphilippe, Jungels, Gilbert one of the others is in the break.

Oh, and Adrie and Lefevere would be an accident waiting to happen.

[KonaSS]

They need a 3 way deal. DQS buys out the contract from Corendon Circus, then trades VDP to Jumbo Visma for Wout Van Aert. Then everyone would be on the right team! :banana:

[wallymann]

They need a 3 way deal. DQS buys out the contract from Corendon Circus, then trades VDP to Jumbo Visma for Wout Van Aert. Then everyone would be on the right team! :banana:

what about evenpoel?! DQS already has him undercontract...*and* he's belgian.

alas remco is quite young, only 19 -- 5 years younger than van der poel and van aert, so remco could develop more gradually and learn the ropes as mathieu/wout develop on DQS squad as well.

[herb5998]

The finish alone was so impressive. Considering how some of the CX races quickly turned into race for 2nd with MVDP being so dominant, it's amazing to see him do it on the road. Certainly going to be a blast to watch him and Wout on the road more

[Jaybee]

I'm a big fan, but I never thought he'd be really in the mix in the big name classics, let alone animating the race/sprinting for the wins.

I figured the transition from racing an hour to racing 4 hours, plus the tactical nature of road riding, plus all the experience and firepower he was up against would make this spring a learning curve year.

Amazing bike rider.

[Jaybee]

They need a 3 way deal. DQS buys out the contract from Corendon Circus, then trades VDP to Jumbo Visma for Wout Van Aert. Then everyone would be on the right team! :banana:

VDP or Van Aert on QuickStep would be like Kevin Durant on the Warriors.:bike:

I kinda like his current setup - he's free to do what he wants in any race. No need to block for Stybar or chase down a break for Gilbert or hang out while Alaphillipe is up the road.

Anyway, I think he's staying with Corendon or some other team that will let him get through the MTB 2020 Olympics, then we will see.

[choke]

I'm a big fan, but I never thought he'd be really in the mix in the big name classics, let alone animating the race/sprinting for the wins.His spring...

1st Amstel Gold Race
1st Dwars door Vlaanderen
1st Brabantse Pijl
1st GP Denain
4th Ronde van Vlaanderen
4th Gent-Wevelgem

There are a lot of riders who would be happy with that for a career.

[azrider]

Yep......can't wait to see what this kid does......already way more fun to watch than Sagan

https://media.giphy.com/media/1Ya1h0OnWecRRrZlON/giphy.gif

[batman1425]

I kinda like his current setup - he's free to do what he wants in any race. No need to block for Stybar or chase down a break for Gilbert or hang out while Alaphillipe is up the road.

The problem I foresee is that he's been so successful he's now now a marked rider and the privateer style success will get harder and harder without some better support. All depends on his goals though. If an olympic medal is still the big goal then having the schedule flexibility to race and train in whatever discipline he wants to support a 2020 bid is a big plus.

[chiasticon]

I figured the transition from racing an hour to racing 4 hours, plus the tactical nature of road riding, plus all the experience and firepower he was up against would make this spring a learning curve year.I see this sentiment a lot, and I get it. but I think people need to also remember it's not like the dude has never raced on the road. he was junior world champ in 2013, for starters. he's won many road races since then, despite barely racing on the road. yes, the tactics, skill, and strength he's up against now are much higher. but it's not like he hasn't grown either. and remember, he's the Dutch champ, and got 2nd in the 2018 European road race. no, I didn't expect his results to be quite this high this season either. but one thing I did know, from watching years of him racing CX: when they were a few km's from the finish and the announcers said "well good for him, he should get a top ten then..." I knew he'd be sprinting for the win.

[MattTuck]

One classics season, seems enough to crown him as the next eddy. :rolleyes:

[thegunner]

One classics season, seems enough to crown him as the next eddy. :rolleyes:

half* a classics season lol

[AngryScientist]

..."I have seen a lot of bike races and I have seen a lot of bike racers. I have never seen anything like this," Lance Armstrong on today's Amstel Gold. JB and Lance break down the most exciting Classic of the season. Hear why Lance called it the greatest finish of any bike race he has watched or been in.

[72gmc]

I am eager for him to go to MTB now. Leave 'em wanting more.

[pasadena]

His current team won't get the invites to all the races he is likely to want to race.
Also his UCI points are a valuable commodity. He will get more $,exposure and big race days on a protour team.

Slotting into team leadership role for his races will not be a problem.

Out of the question. With Corendon he is one of the best paid riders of the pro peloton and Mathieu can do whatever he wants: a full CX season, some spring classics, then on a mountainbike for the rest of the season before returning to CX, without having to worry about team orders or tactics. With DQS he would be pushed into joined leadership, forced to hold his horses when Alaphilippe, Jungels, Gilbert one of the others is in the break.

Oh, and Adrie and Lefevere would be an accident waiting to happen.

[m4rk540]

That was fun to watch.

Wonder if he has stage racing potential or strictly a one day racer? If he isn't interested in stage races, seems he could continue CX and ride the classics.

Was trying to describe this to a family member (who doesn't understand cycling) at Easter dinner, and the closest I could get was if Joe Montana's grand son decided to play baseball as a pitcher, and then decided he wanted to give football a try, got signed to the Cleveland Browns, and in his first few games, started throwing touch downs like Patrick Mahomes did this season.

Not a perfect analogy, but exciting final 5k!

I'm as confused as your family members and I follow baseball, football and cycling.

On second read, cyclocross equals baseball and Joe Montana was a road racer? And the Browns suck? Am I close?

[MattTuck]

I'm as confused as your family members and I follow baseball, football and cycling.

On second read, cyclocross equals baseball and Joe Montana was a road racer? And the Browns suck? Am I close?

:)

I think you got it. Trying to put his cycling pedigree in context, and his ability to switch disciplines and perform at an equally high level.

[m4rk540]

:)

I think you got it. Trying to put his cycling pedigree in context, and his ability to switch disciplines and perform at an equally high level.

I'd go with Brian O'Driscoll as the grandad and Corendon-Circus would be the 2005 Niners who prolly would have been blown out by the SC teams of that era.

[ultraman6970]

Wonder if the kid did track or actually does track in his regime. The other detail is that probably the duo at the front was just done, they did not have anything else in the tank and at that point no matter if you go with 56x10 or 53x15, you are not going to move it. But clearly the kid has his punch and a really powerfull one because that sprint was very long IMO.

Great for the winner.

ps: what happened to sagan?

[weisan]

ps: What happened to sagan?

dnf

[thegunner]

Wonder if the kid did track or actually does track in his regime. The other detail is that probably the duo at the front was just done, they did not have anything else in the tank and at that point no matter if you go with 56x10 or 53x15, you are not going to move it. But clearly the kid has his punch and a really powerfull one because that sprint was very long IMO.

Great for the winner.

ps: what happened to sagan?

he dropped out before the exciting bits.

[Onion]

truly remarkable to do most of the work to close a gap that fast and then to sprint from that far out with that much force. never seen anything quite like it.

[azrider]

truly remarkable to do most of the work to close a gap that fast and then to sprint from that far out with that much force. never seen anything quite like it.

;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNLMYpr2TM

[m4rk540]

One performance looks human and the other super human. I'm always skeptical of the guy sprinting on the hoods. Maybe, Gaimon was right.

[FlashUNC]

I'm a big fan, but I never thought he'd be really in the mix in the big name classics, let alone animating the race/sprinting for the wins.

I figured the transition from racing an hour to racing 4 hours, plus the tactical nature of road riding, plus all the experience and firepower he was up against would make this spring a learning curve year.

Amazing bike rider.

Kid is Dutch National Road Champ. That's not exactly a title that comes with lightweight competition. And he beasted all comers in that race.

It ain't like winning the Slovakian road title. #shotsfired

[pbarry]

One performance looks human and the other super human. I'm always skeptical of the guy sprinting on the hoods. Maybe, Gaimon was right.

Haven't you? Ever? Dude did crazy work during the race, and reaching down is tough at that point. Might be one of the best classics performances, or some of us are dupes. :eek:

[MattTuck]

;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNLMYpr2TM

Are you insinuating that van der poel had a motor in his bike? :eek:

[echappist]

Are you insinuating that van der poel had a motor in his bike? :eek:

well he is genetically doped, and i have it on good authority that this old man is responsible ;)

https://df8l8a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mG-oB9bruOs6e2YK3KptptpON6ShR_tCFQDcP2jiX8Tg4tUJpCMkz P8tjN6dhcsIIul2wqq_ndJeE3X_W3tSF7FB9IMVgNXBSYI1NrO Zlze2zKvwAtD7p77iGWNa0m8TJ7Bsfe8Xwe8qZ1Gec0DFAT6qE hhnvFJAvYG8OjgVrNcLdGHbQi1yhRX668gtKWv_fBjHKpSMqow MFuIcR_Xz-ew?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none

also, for anyone who hasn't seen it, this ad is def worth watching. There are very few ads one would like to rewatch; this is one of them


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKA9xPmusfw

edit, name the second place finisher in the race depicted in the 38th second of the video

[m4rk540]

Haven't you? Ever? Dude did crazy work during the race, and reaching down is tough at that point. Might be one of the best classics performances, or some of us are dupes. :eek:

I always sprint on the hoods and I don't win races and I don't ride guys off my wheel. Even the ones with half the talent. But it's different at the elite level, right? In any sport. As guys move up there's less parity. 10 MJ's per 50 players. :p

[mhespenheide]

Changing topics for a second, CyclingTips echoed this tidbit from Twitter user @daniellloyd1:

"Yesterday's Amstel Gold Race was the first time that Alejandro Valverde has finished outside the top 50 of any race, and any stage of any race, since 7th May, 2016."

Even given the suspicion of doping, that's flat out amazing.

[pbarry]

I always sprint on the hoods and I don't win races and I don't ride guys off my wheel. Even the ones with half the talent. But it's different at the elite level, right? In any sport. As guys move up there's less parity. 10 MJ's per 50 players. :p

OK, you don't lose from the guys with half the talent, Talent is not part of winning: It's who's on form, who has a good RD, and who gets lucky. :)

[Ruimteaapje]

His current team won't get the invites to all the races he is likely to want to race.
Also his UCI points are a valuable commodity. He will get more $,exposure and big race days on a protour team.

Slotting into team leadership role for his races will not be a problem.
Can you name one race he'd like to race that he won't be invited to? They even decided not to accept the invite for Paris-Roubaix because the race did not fit his plans this year

He is currently on a one million euros a year contract with Corendon till 2023 and he is free to choose his own staff and program - which is important since his main goal is a gold medal in the 2020 olympic mountainbike race. That's why he returns to MTB next week and won't race Fleche Wallone, LBL, etc.

[Ruimteaapje]

well he is genetically doped, and i have it on good authority that this old man is responsible ;)

https://df8l8a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mG-oB9bruOs6e2YK3KptptpON6ShR_tCFQDcP2jiX8Tg4tUJpCMkz P8tjN6dhcsIIul2wqq_ndJeE3X_W3tSF7FB9IMVgNXBSYI1NrO Zlze2zKvwAtD7p77iGWNa0m8TJ7Bsfe8Xwe8qZ1Gec0DFAT6qE hhnvFJAvYG8OjgVrNcLdGHbQi1yhRX668gtKWv_fBjHKpSMqow MFuIcR_Xz-ew?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none
That's race director Leo van Vliet

https://media.nu.nl/m/jocx0x6ayodl_wd640.jpg/koersdirecteur-van-vliet-dolblij-met-van-der-poel-als-opvolger-van-dekker.jpg

[echappist]

D’oh; i thought it was Grampa Poupou

[JStonebarger]

Can you name one race he'd like to race that he won't be invited to? They even decided not to accept the invite for Paris-Roubaix because the race did not fit his plans this year

He is currently on a one million euros a year contract with Corendon till 2023 and he is free to choose his own staff and program - which is important since his main goal is a gold medal in the 2020 olympic mountainbike race. That's why he returns to MTB next week and won't race Fleche Wallone, LBL, etc.

Plus Corendon has the cash and has said it will support going ProTour if the team decides to. Why would MvdP ride for someone else? (Also, his team has surprised more the Mathieu has, with a couple teammates stepping up nicely.)

I realize that road racing fans don't always give a crap about MTB or CX -- how else would anyone not know MvdP & Wout? -- but good for Mathieu for sticking to his plan and racing the way he wants to race. The ProTour can wait.

[MattTuck]

... Why would MvdP ride for someone else? (Also, his team has surprised more the Mathieu has, with a couple teammates stepping up nicely.)

I think that is it. Access to a WorldTour quality roster of teammates. Probably less important when you're a transcendent talent and you're picking and choosing your races to suit you.

If you start riding a full road calendar (which may never be in the cards for him), it becomes very hard to do it alone, or with a weak team. Also, the economics of a team are not very good to begin with. If you have a team built around a single rider and be gets injured, sick, etc. that is a lot of overhead that you have to carry with very little benefit to sponsors.

[echappist]

Plus Corendon has the cash and has said it will support going ProTour if the team decides to. Why would MvdP ride for someone else? (Also, his team has surprised more the Mathieu has, with a couple teammates stepping up nicely.)

not to mention that Canyon would be more than happy to step up

[echappist]

I think that is it. Access to a WorldTour quality roster of teammates. Probably less important when you're a transcendent talent and you're picking and choosing your races to suit you.

If you start riding a full road calendar (which may never be in the cards for him), it becomes very hard to do it alone, or with a weak team. Also, the economics of a team are not very good to begin with. If you have a team built around a single rider and be gets injured, sick, etc. that is a lot of overhead that you have to carry with very little benefit to sponsors.

In a stage race, I'd agree; he'd get tag teamed

In an one-day race, especially the hillier ones, he's not gonna be at a bigger disadvantage than many of other contenders.

Riders for Dudes-in-Knicks aside, most riders are alone at the end.

[Jaybee]

So, should Nino start looking over his shoulder?

[Ruimteaapje]

Plus Corendon has the cash and has said it will support going ProTour if the team decides to. Why would MvdP ride for someone else? (Also, his team has surprised more the Mathieu has, with a couple teammates stepping up nicely.)

I realize that road racing fans don't always give a crap about MTB or CX -- how else would anyone not know MvdP & Wout? -- but good for Mathieu for sticking to his plan and racing the way he wants to race. The ProTour can wait.

Indeed, there are definitely a couple of guys in his squad who are prepared to go the extra mile now that they know they're going for the win with Mathieu instead of just some screentime for the sponsor in the early break.

[Andy sti]

So, should Nino start looking over his shoulder?

The World Cup is going to be pretty interesting this year. Most open it’s been for years.

[crankles]

So, should Nino start looking over his shoulder?

He already is and even admitted so last year. I'm a huge Nino and MvdP fan so I'll be watching!

Here are the reasons why I think MdvP won, according to me.
1) race radios. live by them, die by them. The rare times I was in a break, the assumption was that the chase was always on *not* that we had it in the bag and could fart around until the kite. I think if JF and JA had pulled their earpieces out, they would have driven it a bit longer.
2) MvdP is a huge talent, no doubt. But what he has over the others is the ability to go deeper than anyone else wants to. He reeeeallly empties the tank (if you've followed cross, you know what I mean). Sure he gets in his head sometimes, but if he's in the hunt I think he can crush himself like no other. I recall an answer from Eddie Merckx when asked why he won so many races. He said it wasnt' his physical talent...he credited others of his era being just as strong. He said " I could just hurt more".

[GregL]

1) race radios. live by them, die by them. The rare times I was in a break, the assumption wasthat the chase was on always *not* that we had it in the bag and could fart around until the kite. I think if JF and JA had pulled their earpieces out, they would have driven it a bit longer.^^This^^

If they had kept up the pace, they would have gotten first and second with a margin of at least a few seconds. MVDP stated in a Cylingtips interview that he thought he was just sprinting for third. He was as surprised an anyone to get the win. Instead, Fuglsang and Alaphilippe get third and forth. Fuglsang is definitely the "almost" rider of 2016 (second at Strade Bianche and Fleche Wallonne, third at Amstel).

Greg

[notsew]

Cyclingtips gaping at MvdP's power data https://cyclingtips.com/2019/04/mathieu-van-der-poel-power-watts-amstel-gold/

Turns out the dude is strong.

[Jaybee]

Here's some way-too-early discussion (https://www.velonews.com/2019/04/news/could-van-der-poel-hold-all-three-worlds-titles-simultaneously_492996) of the logistics around holding all 3 major world titles simultaneously.

[mhespenheide]

Here's some way-too-early discussion (https://www.velonews.com/2019/04/news/could-van-der-poel-hold-all-three-worlds-titles-simultaneously_492996) of the logistics around holding all 3 major world titles simultaneously.

I'm nit-picking here, but "all three" world titles ignores the track. Thank you for clarifying "major", unlike the article's title.


(Which is not to say that, with some track training, VdP couldn't be a pursuit champion...)

[Heisenberg]

Cyclingtips gaping at MvdP's power data https://cyclingtips.com/2019/04/mathieu-van-der-poel-power-watts-amstel-gold/

Turns out the dude is strong.

this confirms the suspicions: he can hurt more than everyone else. nothing about the performance is physically insane, but...

being able to turn 1200w after 6 hours of that is ****ing impressive - that takes serious mental hardness.

[echappist]

this confirms the suspicions: he can hurt more than everyone else. nothing about the performance is physically insane, but...

being able to turn 1200w after 6 hours of that is ****ing impressive - that takes serious mental hardness.

the under-appreciated aspect of classics racing is that in the final hour, most rider (even the podium finishers) are just completely knackered. I recall seeing the file for Kwiatek's E3 win and a similar sort of file for someone else. The power for the last 30-45 minutes is actually quite a bit lower than what we'd expect, around 330W, if that. Of course, there's quite a bit of coasting, drafting, and hard efforts, which makes the AP low and the NP quite a bit higher, but overall, 330W is what a decent cat 1 does for the last hour of a 80 mile road race. Doesn't seem all that impressive, but it really is, within the right context

M vdP rode on the front from the penultimate climb (the one that saw Trentin gapped momentarily) until ~800 m, when a few riders swung in front momentarily. He then put in a last effort to close the gap and then sprinted. The power files of his break companion De Marchi (who finished 7th) is also available. M vdP pulled this entire section (~10 minutes) averaging 400 W; De Marchi averaged 340 W. When M vdP opened his sprint, he peaked at 1400 W and averaged ~1250 W for 12 seconds; De Marchi peaked at 900 W, this, after sitting on. While not on the level of the cycling A-grade stars, De Marchi has a palmares that would be the envy of many pros. That he couldn't crack 900 W after sitting on, while M vdP unleashed 1200+ W sprint really shows just how good M vdP is

edit: I mis-remembered the fact. Took out the factually incorrect part

[Zee]

That power file and overall closing details were pretty remarkable.

I just hope he's clean.

[Heisenberg]

That power file and overall closing details were pretty remarkable.

I just hope he's clean.

i'm inclined to say yes. the power numbers aren't abnormal. adrenaline is amazing, and being able to tap it like that...

i hope he doesn't burn out.

[azrider]

the under-appreciated aspect of classics racing is that in the final hour, most rider (even the podium finishers) are just completely knackered. I recall seeing the file for Kwiatek's E3 win and a similar sort of file for someone else. The power for the last 30-45 minutes is actually quite a bit lower than what we'd expect, around 330W, if that. Of course, there's quite a bit of coasting, drafting, and hard efforts, which makes the AP low and the NP quite a bit higher, but overall, 330W is what a decent cat 1 does for the last hour of a 80 mile road race. Doesn't seem all that impressive, but it really is, within the right context

M vdP rode on the front from the penultimate climb (the one that saw Trentin gapped momentarily) until ~800 m, when a few riders swung in front momentarily. He then put in a last effort to close the gap and then sprinted. The power files of his break companion De Marchi (who finished 7th) is also available. M vdP pulled this entire section (~10 minutes) averaging 400 W; De Marchi averaged 340 W. When M vdP opened his sprint, he peaked at 1400 W and averaged ~1250 W for 12 seconds; De Marchi peaked at 900 W, this, after sitting on. While not on the level of the cycling A-grade stars, De Marchi has a palmares that would be the envy of many pros. That he couldn't crack 900 W after sitting on, while M vdP unleashed 1200+ W sprint really shows just how good M vdP is

edit: I mis-remembered the fact. Took out the factually incorrect part

Amazing....great info here. Thx for sharing

i'm inclined to say yes. the power numbers aren't abnormal. adrenaline is amazing, and being able to tap it like that...

i hope he doesn't burn out.

Yeah I’d be more concerned about him burning out than being doper at this point

[geordanh]

Of everyone that has risen to stardom in cycling the past number of years, I have the least worries of all about MVDP being a doper. He has been consistently incredible from a young age, demonstrating a natural talent far and above average for a long time. It's not to rule it out, but seeing what he's doing on the road is no surprise after how dominant he's been in other disciplines, where frankly, the benefits of doping, like the type you can still get away with, are in my opinion less.

The reason people like froome attract so much scrutiny is that they went from zero to hero in such a short period of time well into their professional careers.

[nooneline]

I still remember the CX race where I first noticed him, he was young as hell and made it into a small lead group with Sven Nys. He had his first elite podium in his sights and was riding out of his skin so enthusiastically that his rear wheel was skipping around in the dust when he'd accelerate. Of course I recognized the name. Figured he'd be over the moon just to be in that group.