PSA : Paypal sucks part infinity...

[yinzerniner]

You issue a refund, Paypal keeps the fee.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

[Black Dog]

I am no fan of PayPal, but they are not charging a fee for the refund. They are moving money and that is what they do and charging a fee for that is not crazy. I am sure that they are making money hand over fist and could afford to refund the initial fee and that would be a good customer service gesture, but I doubt that they care enough to do that. PayPal needs some serious competition and then they will care about customers because they will no longer view them as literal cash cows.

[ryker]

They do refund the percentage fee (e.g. 2.9%) on the amount refunded, whether on a partial refund or a full refund. In either case, however, they keep the fixed transaction fee charged initially. Today when I fully refund a transaction my net cost is limited to the initial transaction fee or $0.30 regardless of transaction size.

[m_sasso]

Reactivated my Google Pay account today addio PayPal!

[tsarpepe]

I am no fan of PayPal, but they are not charging a fee for the refund. They are moving money and that is what they do and charging a fee for that is not crazy. I am sure that they are making money hand over fist and could afford to refund the initial fee and that would be a good customer service gesture, but I doubt that they care enough to do that. PayPal needs some serious competition and then they will care about customers because they will no longer view them as literal cash cows.

PayPal has enough competition in the world at large. The problem is eBay, which does not allow any other payment methods. So, if you want to do eBay, you have to do PayPal.

[Likes2ridefar]

One day maybe we can use something like blockchain to get rid of these pesky middle men...

[SoCalSteve]

PayPal has enough competition in the world at large. The problem is eBay, which does not allow any other payment methods. So, if you want to do eBay, you have to do PayPal.

That’s not true. eBay gives you the option to use a credit card or go through PayPal.

[ultraman6970]

Dont scare me... did my 1st refund ever today :) well... lets see how it goes because i refunded the whole ammount, but the transaction was BFF so who knows...

[yinzerniner]

They do refund the percentage fee (e.g. 2.9%) on the amount refunded, whether on a partial refund or a full refund. In either case, however, they keep the fixed transaction fee charged initially. Today when I fully refund a transaction my net cost is limited to the initial transaction fee or $0.30 regardless of transaction size.

Read the entire agreement - it doesn't go into effect until May 7. At that time they will keep the 2.9% and the .30

To all others that might be too preoccupied to click through the link....

AMENDMENTS TO THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT USER AGREEMENT
We are updating the PayPal Account User Agreement for U.S. customers. These changes will go into effect on May 7, 2019. If you agree to these changes, you don’t have to do anything. If you don’t agree with these changes, you may close your account. If you close your account before May 7, 2019, the changes will not apply to you.



Amendments to the PayPal Account User Agreement

We’re removing the flat rate pricing for sending money to friends and family members who have PayPal accounts in a country other than the United States and introducing a new variable fee of 5% based on the amount you send with a minimum of $0.99 and a maximum of $4.99 per transaction. We’re also removing any variation depending on the recipient’s country.
We are changing the currency conversion spread to 3.25% over a base exchange rate in situations where you are a sender of money in a PayPal transaction.
We’re changing how we treat refunds. If you refund (partially or fully) a transaction to a buyer or a donation to a donor, there are no fees to make the refund, but the fees you originally paid as the seller will not be returned to you.

[ryker]

Keeping the original percentage on a return is kind of shocking. I had to do a few searches to confirm this is the intent of the wording and it appears to be. It looks like this may be an industry trend ... according to my searches Stripe, a PayPal competitor, has this policy for new accounts. It sounds like Square does not.

[FriarQuade]

I generally think PayPal sucks and is like every other bank and entirely in favor of the buyer with zero regard for the merchant. However, I did come out with a fair shake of a dispute with a customer who abandoned their international order because they didn't want to pay taxes on it. I was pretty shocked that I got what was entirely fair and didn't get screwed like I have in the past.

[loxx0050]

I mean what did you expect from a company that was the brainchild of Elon Musk....something about him reminds of Hank Scorpio.

Anyways, it reminds of the evils of Ticketmaster. I was "lucky" enough to win the lottery on being able to buy MLB Playoff lottery tickets for the Divisional Series, Game 4 if it came to that a number of years back for the Twins. This was was despite not being a season ticket holder and being allowed the opportunity to buy playoff tickets at a reasonable price is always a welcome thing. Plus it was the inaugural season in the new stadium at the time.

Well anyways, because my team (Twins) sucks donkey a$$ in the playoffs and almost always draws the Yankees it seems the since the turn of 2000 (who always seems to be their playoff b1tches too). They got swept so my ticket was not good since the game wasn't necessary. Got refunded the price of the tickets but Ticketmaster did not refund their fees. So I ended up getting stuck paying $10 or $20 (I forget the amount as it was over 10 years ago) for freaking pieces of paper tickets to a game that never took place. F Ticketmaster.

[noonan1970]

$3000 via PayPal goods and service and the buyer backs out, and asks for the money back I'll still be paying the fee's if I do a full refund?

Thanks in advance. tim

[buddybikes]

friend paid me for a wedding present share, said just PayPal friends and family, PayPal then stopped my account I had to justify that this was a personal exchange because I bought the gift we were sharing.

[FlashUNC]

Well yeah, it's basically the interchange fee. Processing a transaction and moving the money around isn't free.

[dan_hudson]

<delete> See that PayPal changed policies since my experience.


$3000 via PayPal goods and service and the buyer backs out, and asks for the money back I'll still be paying the fee's if I do a full refund?

Thanks in advance. tim

[Kyle h]

$3000 via PayPal goods and service and the buyer backs out, and asks for the money back I'll still be paying the fee's if I do a full refund?

Thanks in advance. tim

You can do a partial refund of the amount less the fee. I would explain to the buyer that you will refund the amount less the fee.

[Clean39T]

$3000 via PayPal goods and service and the buyer backs out, and asks for the money back I'll still be paying the fee's if I do a full refund?

Thanks in advance. tim

Yes. That is how it works.

[Pegoready]

$3000 via PayPal goods and service and the buyer backs out, and asks for the money back I'll still be paying the fee's if I do a full refund?

Thanks in advance. tim

YUP! Stinks!

You take $3000 goods and services and can't complete the transaction at no fault of your own, you have to refund the full $3000. In the past, you would refund your net and paypal would refund their fee but not anymore. At least they're not double charging you both ways. :rolleyes:

Now if you accept $3000 goods and services, you will only net $2912.70. When you refund the buyer you'll be in the red $87.30 because the full $3000 has to come from your end.

I get that paypal makes money by moving money around but this is bull*****. Only a small % of transactions result in a refund. Plus paypal makes money by holding money. They should be somewhat charitable to online sellers that use their service by sharing in the expense of a refund.

[Pegoready]

You can do a partial refund of the amount less the fee. I would explain to the buyer that you will refund the amount less the fee.

Ha. Try doing this and watch the buyer open up a claim. The buyer is entitled to 100% of their money back in the eyes of Paypal and all they will see is the refund wasn't given back in full. .

I'd try this tact: "Hey, no worries with a refund but I'm taking a $90 haircut. Can you float me half as a separate transaction friends + family and I'll refund the full amount on the original transaction?"

[FriarQuade]

We stopped taking PayPal at the begining of this year, no regrets.

[kiwisimon]

I've been using Paypal for years with zero issues. What am I doing wrong?

[tuscanyswe]

Hmm i did not know paypal kept their fees on refunds. Thats simply wrong..

What about when one uses paypal via ebay as a seller? Im going to assume that this is not the case then and that they will then refund their fees?

[cinema]

Wow. I will never sell on ebay ever again. I have moved a majority of my buying and selling off ebay due to fees but it's completely over now. this is too much.

[tuscanyswe]

Wow. I will never sell on ebay ever again. I have moved a majority of my buying and selling off ebay due to fees but it's completely over now. this is too much.

But do u know that this apply to ebay sales as well (tho i gather one can think its to much regardless)?

[cinema]

But do u know that this apply to ebay sales as well (tho i gather one can think its to much regardless)?

sorry i don't follow. ebay uses paypal to process online payments. ebay owns paypal

[tuscanyswe]

sorry i don't follow. ebay uses paypal to process online payments. ebay owns paypal


Yes which is why i think they may have excluded not reimbursing fees from ebay sales as that would likely drive a way a lot of sellers and its also makes them look more ridiculous offering a service of buyers that backs out and then let the sellers take the loss (as opposed to other transactions which is really not their fault anyways if buyer and seller have misscommunicated what they thought they were buying / selling).. Or they possibly think that it will be worth it even if a few drops out of selling their stuff on ebay. But i dont think thats a given.

They may reason that if ebay is excluded from this practise it could drive sellers to use ebay more as a substantial loss could be made if sale is outside of ebay.

[cinema]

Yes which is why i think they may have excluded not reimbursing fees from ebay sales as that would likely drive a way a lot of sellers. Or they possibly think that it will be worth it even if a few drops out of selling their stuff on ebay. But i dont think thats a given.

yes for sure it would drive away a ton of high volume sellers that they make their bread and butter from. ebay has become mostly buy it now, and individuals with amateur interests selling their gear do not make them much money in comparison. i wonder if this is a policy for every transaction including ebay or just person to person or merchant accounts

[tuscanyswe]

yes for sure it would drive away a ton of high volume sellers that they make their bread and butter from. ebay has become mostly buy it now, and individuals with amateur interests selling their gear do not make them much money in comparison. i wonder if this is a policy for every transtion including ebay or just person to person or merchant accounts

Yes that was my point and question. But i take it u like me dont know if this is the case (yet).

[pbarry]

FWIW, PayPal was spun off from eBay in 2015 and is a completely separate entity.

[Pegoready]

But do u know that this apply to ebay sales as well (tho i gather one can think its to much regardless)?

Yes it applies to eBay sales. You are on the hook for Paypal fees one way, if you issue a refund. eBay still refunds their side of the fees as they should. The Paypal fees are gone forever.

[Pegoready]

I've been using Paypal for years with zero issues. What am I doing wrong?

It really depends how you use paypal and how you define an "issue." If you're a high volume seller who accepts payments the legitimate way from ppl you don't know (i.e. accepting payments goods and services), this will bite you one day. Paypal would claim it's a non-issue since it's in accordance with their (relatively recently changed) policies. A lot of Paceline users would also agree since Paypal "should get paid" for moving around money. These are the same users who skirt Paypal fees by paying and asking for payments friends and family.

[tuscanyswe]

Yes it applies to eBay sales. You are on the hook for Paypal fees one way, if you issue a refund. eBay still refunds their side of the fees as they should. The Paypal fees are gone forever.

Do you know this for a fact? Did u read about it somewhere or did u have it happen to you? Or just assuming because ebay involves paypal and that is paypals policy?

[echappist]

Bumping this, as I would like some clarifications

Someone paid $50 for a purchase. Fees on this is $0.30 + $1.45 (2.9% of $50), for $1.75 total. I received $48.25.

Buyer backs out and I issued a refund. Paypal draws $48.55 from my bank account and returns the 2.9% fee.

Did I luck out, or did its policies change? This happened last week, btw

Furthermore, I "played around" with some of the previous transactions I've made (e.g. one for $475). Were I to make the full refund, I would be responsible for the portion I pocketed ($460.92) and $0.30, while Paypal refunds $13.78. Am I missing something?

[ryker]

I dunno. I just did a full refund and ended up only $0.30 out of pocket too.

[kevinvc]

I had my own PayPal pain in the a$$ a couple of months ago. Short story, I ordered a weight bench online, it never came. The seller had a delivery confirmation notice to an unspecified address in Portland, but nothing that showed my address. That was enough for PayPal who ruled that it must have been delivered to me.

It took several weeks and a lot of effort on my part, but i eventually got some great assistance from the local Postmaster, who had a photo that showed a small envelope (clearly not a with my shipping confirmation number but a different street address. I eventually got my money back but it seemed like it should have been standard for PayPal to ask the seller for proof that it was shipped to my address, not just my city.

The most frustrating part was going back and forth with them. I could only use their online chat feature, which usually had an hour or so between responses, it was always a different person between replies, and they were clearly just reading off a script.

Not trying to threadjack, but I'll be avoiding them unless absolutely necessary.

[tuscanyswe]

I had my own PayPal pain in the a$$ a couple of months ago. Short story, I ordered a weight bench online, it never came. The seller had a delivery confirmation notice to an unspecified address in Portland, but nothing that showed my address. That was enough for PayPal who ruled that it must have been delivered to me.

It took several weeks and a lot of effort on my part, but i eventually got some great assistance from the local Postmaster, who had a photo that showed a small envelope (clearly not a with my shipping confirmation number but a different street address. I eventually got my money back but it seemed like it should have been standard for PayPal to ask the seller for proof that it was shipped to my address, not just my city.

The most frustrating part was going back and forth with them. I could only use their online chat feature, which usually had an hour or so between responses, it was always a different person between replies, and they were clearly just reading off a script.

Not trying to threadjack, but I'll be avoiding them unless absolutely necessary.

Here i can only call them and when i do its always a busy line lol. Not even a chat function.. Its weird i let them keep my money in their account considering i cant even contact them about questions i have. Im sure there is another way but i dont have a week to spend to try to get in contact ..

[echappist]

Well, add another to the list of grievances.

Long time ago, one could just leave money on the paypal account, without needing to have that money either go immediately to an actual bank account or a paypal bank account. Those are the only two options available now.

I received payment for something I sold and wanted to have the money in the paypal account, so I could pay for shipping, but given that it appeared as if those were the only two options available, I moved the money to my bank account.

When I actually tried to print a shipping label, for whatever reason, Paypal does not allow me to pay via credit card or my normal bank accounts. Instead, it wants me to pay via balance (which I have none). Just completely messed up. Tried logging out and logging back in, but still won't work (payment method defaulted to paypal account balance, and I can't change it).

Finally, I asked my wife to send me $25, so I can at least cover the shipping. That seemed to have worked. But this morning, I find out that Paypal has issued a checkings account and debit card in my name, all the while I didn't agree to it. Complete BS. I never wanted any of this, and it's very likely that its own system messed up. I doubt they could actually open an account, as I have frozen my Chex system. Now they tell me I have a Paid with "PayPal Business Debit Mastercard x-[abcd]". Completely bananas.

Last but not least, my wife never linked her checking accounts to Paypal, so she paid me as G&S. So much :crap::crap::crap:

Someone oughtta undercut them, charge 1.5% transaction on G&S, and maybe Paypal will get its acts together.