OT - Any Experience with H/S Track Distance Runners

[dirtdigger88]

I figured there has to be a mix of ex runners and or coaches - not to mention the parents of runners - I am looking for people's thoughts

My son is 15 yrs old and a freshman who is fairly decent in the 1600m - he wants to concentrate on this event but his coach is pushing for him to also run the 3200m at the same meets.

I think this is too much - especially for a young runner. Yes he can cover the distances - its the same distance as a Cross County event - just with a two hour "rest" in the middle

At Monday's meet he did great in the individual 1600m then ran terrible in the 1600m leg he ran in the distance relay - There was about 2 hours between the event (that would be about the same gap as the 1600 and the 3200) it was chilly and I think he got cold and was not able to loosen back up for the second event

I fear that even in better temps - the two events are too much for a young runner - any thoughts?

[papa bless]

I ran my fair share of track through highschool. 3 miles in one meet is tough, and he's going to be exhausted, but he's going to grow. He's young and in a time of his life where his body adapts extremely quickly to the load applied to it. Not only will he be fine, but he'll get really fast and be a superstar by the time he's a senior.

Same guidelines apply to him as they do us though: plenty of rest, recovery, and healthy food.

Showing your concern is is only going to shake his confidence or make him fearful of something that he can absolutely handle.

[Jaybee]

Former D1 mid-distance runner and HS coach here, though it's been over a decade since I was in that game...

...in general, I think we (Americans) don't ask our 1600m and 800m runners to do enough overdistance racing, especially early in the season. I wouldn't consider any race before mid-April to be that important, except as high intensity race-pace training. There's something invaluable about learning to suffer through at lactate threshold that seems to work better in race situations for younger runners. When it's time to qualify for State or Regionals or whatever, then you can lighten the load and pick a distance to focus on.

A good coach will of course tailor this depending on the weekday training load, the total race schedule, and how the individual athlete is feeling that day.

[EDS]

If his focus is the 1600 and that comes first than he can use the 3200 as training. It will be painful for him for sure should make him stronger and end up helping his 1600 by the end of the season.

[Hellgate]

I was a pretty good HS 800 runner who could fake it a 1600. 3200 was way out of reach, too different of events. At 15YO 1600 to 3200 may be too much of a difference for him this season. Next season, as his body keeps developing he may be able to do it. It's also about fun too. Does he like the 3200, or is the coach looking for points? That said, I had to run the 300 hurdles once because we needed points!

[wc1934]

I ran my fair share of track through highschool. 3 miles in one meet is tough, and he's going to be exhausted, but he's going to grow. He's young and in a time of his life where his body adapts extremely quickly to the load applied to it. Not only will he be fine, but he'll get really fast and be a superstar by the time he's a senior.

Same guidelines apply to him as they do us though: plenty of rest, recovery, and healthy food.

Showing your concern is is only going to shake his confidence or make him fearful of something that he can absolutely handle.

Youth!! Recovery is fast - It is good that you are concerned and looking out for him, but what does he want to do. That said, I think some gentle encouragement/pushing him to do more is a good thing.

[Chris]

Shouldn't be a problem. Just go on the letsrun message board. All runners should be running 100+ mile weeks anyway...

[John H.]

It could be too much- But it might be great prep for later in the season.

One thing for your son to pay attention to is nutrition and hydration.

Way too often this is over-looked during weekday afternoon dual meets.
It can be too long after lunch- glycogen and hydration play a huge role.
Kids burn a lot of calories. This causes them to burn up all of their glycogen quickly.

Figure out a nutritional strategy to have ideal energy for both events- send him to meets with a bag of food and stuff to drink- and a plan to go with it.
Sandwiches, electrolyte drinks- Maybe some of your bike food. Bars, gels, and blocks might also help.

I remember failing on this during high school track. Our coaches never addressed this with us.

[mhespenheide]

College track/XC runner here, now a HS XC coach. I've not coached track.

My first take is that unless your son is near state-level for the 1600m, he should not be limiting himself to one distance/event. Particularly as a freshman, he should be trying out lots of different events. Particularly early in the season. At this point, he should be trying out the 800m, the 4x400m relay, and maybe even the 400m hurdles. This is way too early in his running career to be specializing.

I am worried that his coach might just be after points, but you have to balance that concern with some trust. The most likely scenario is that the coach asked for volunteers to run the 3200 and no one stepped up (especially since many high school runners think that 400m is "distance"...). So the coach looked around at who among his runners did better on the "long" training runs, and settled on your son.

Yes, running the 3200 will impact your son's 1600 race. That's okay. If he can handle the load and not get injured (likely meaning that he's running 5-7 miles on his "long" runs and 25-35 miles per week), run both. At least for freshman and sophomore years. Again, don't try to specialize too early.

//
To add on to John H.'s post: yes, nutrition can certainly help if you've got 1.5 to 2 hours between events. Carbs, protein, and a little fat immediately after the first event. Like 8oz of cold chocolate milk. Then sip water regularly for the next 30-45 minutes.

[Jaybee]

Good points above on specialization too early. I'd also add that there isn't a good Jr/Sr level 1600m runner who can't also take names at 3200m. The demands of the two events aren't that different, and if you don't have the aerobic engine to work through 10ish minutes of near-threshhold effort, your 1600 is also not as good as it could be.

This is homework for later.

[kppolich]

He's a freshmen in high school and it is a team sport, run where you can help the team and let the your coach know the event you'd like to eventually focus on.

800's help every discipline except maybe pure 100m/200m guys. Depending on how the meet's are structured in your state it should be possible to hit 3200/1600 and a 4x800 or 800 in a medley somewhere. Fast 800m runners are hard to beat and even harder to find in high school.

Burnout happens. Guessing your son is doing XC too?

[wc1934]

He's a freshmen in high school and it is a team sport, run where you can help the team and let the your coach know the event you'd like to eventually focus on.

800's help every discipline except maybe pure 100m/200m guys. Depending on how the meet's are structured in your state it should be possible to hit 3200/1600 and a 4x800 or 800 in a medley somewhere. Fast 800m runners are hard to beat and even harder to find in high school.

Burnout happens. Guessing your son is doing XC too?

Agree - 800 felt like a sprint the entire way.

[dustyrider]

It all depends! There is so much that goes into coaching an athlete. Just a few things I consider before entering my high school track/xc athletes into events are: Athlete’s goals, age, athletic ability, athlete capacity, training regime, yearly fitness regime, weekly mileage, extracurricular activities and academic obligations, athlete feedback and participation during conditioning, stretching, warmups, competition, our meet schedule, team/athlete competition level, times/splits during practice and past meets. Even then I might coach my athlete completely different after their first split/lap/race! It is usually easier to scratch an athlete than it is to add one.

There is nothing wrong with talking to your athlete’s coach about his coaching philosophy, but there is a lot you should be able to figure out on your own. I would venture to guess you can estimate the yearly fitness level maintained by your son, and you should be able to see the practice schedule or at the very least have your athlete report the day’s practice for a week so you can add up mileage and see the balance between aerobic/anaerobic/lactate/race days. The meet schedule for the season should be available online too. You will hear all the physical ailments he’s experiencing and know about his diet, sleep, and academic commitments. You can encourage proper recovery and adequate conditioning outside of practice. Sleep and diet are huge factors for any athlete but to a teen, sleep always seems more important. You can keep track of times and splits if you’re at the meet and see just what is happening in his performances.

[Louis]

OMG, Jason, how are you? Long time no post. :)

Take care.

Louis

Edit: You know where he can come run, if your son needs to do some hill repeats...

[ontarget]

I'm no coach, but it was common on my high school track team for 1600m runners to also run the 3200m. I did, and the two hour break was sufficient. As has been said, he's too young to specialize just yet. I'd suggest discussing with the coach if it's really concerning you.



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[bigbill]

My kid ran both, he had some shin splint and IB band issues but I don't think it was related to the distances. He was slow to tell the trainer about his pain when it could have been addressed but I never felt like he overtrained, just under stretched. These days he's finishing up his freshman year at Annapolis and runs 3-4 miles each morning. He knows how to stretch properly and has a foam roller to take care of his IB.

[verticaldoug]

Take yourself out of the equation.
Assume the coach is competent.

Tell your son to listen to the coach who is investing time in him this year. (and for upcoming cross country season)

It's April, be excited to see how far he progresses by the end of season.
Hopefully, your son runs his PR when it counts at conference championships or sectionals, regionals ....

High Schools tend to have too many track meets in a short period and a coach needs to use meets as training. Coach may have him double up all season only to focus on his best distance at the end of season.

Even though your son is a freshmen, encourage him to speak to the coach not you. It's a good skill to have.

[Climb01742]

My two cents, FWIW, goes the other way from most here.

I would not assume a HS coach is putting an athlete’s health and best interest first. They may be, but equally may not. The team winning and their job might be first.

At 15, the issue isn’t specialization. It’s health of a growing, changing body. I’d err on the side of caution and slower progression and let his body adapt more gradually.

My feelings are based on my HS career and my daughter’s HS and D1 career. Just two data points, yes, but from here, slower is better for a long, healthy and enjoyable life and athletic experience.

[classtimesailer]

I’d be more concerned about excessive weekly mileage. Coaches around here have the fast young runners do the same workouts as the older kids. Too many are plagued by preventable injuries. One of my kids wouldn’t do the mileage and he was healthy for 4 years. My other kid wanted only to please the coach and seasons ended early.

[dirtdigger88]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply - some updates and added information

The concern about the two races was (is) coming from my son to me - that's why I asked the question here and no I have not addressed it with the coach - I was waiting to get more information before I went than direction

My son did talk to his couch about his concerns yesterday (did so on his own) - he and the coach agreed to let him approach the 1600 and his competition run and the 3200 as training - though I will say that the coach would rather see him approach it the other way. I think this is due to the coach looking at it more from a cross county side rather than track

He loves the 1600 but hates the 3200 - its not the distance but the repetition of 8 laps - even in CC he prefers courses that are one big loop over the ones that cover the same area more than once. He also set a goal for himself to break the school 1600 and 5k record before he graduates - he did this when is was an 8th grader at freshman orientation - We were in the gym and he was studying the records on the wall of the gym

I guess I will know more after Saturday's race - he has set a goal for himself to run the 1600 under 4:50