More lights questions ... [Archive]

djg

11-29-2006, 03:42 PM

I�ve been pondering a new light (a headlight for the bike)�I�ve searched out a few threads on the board but thought I�d float a couple of questions. So, by way of background: (1) this would mostly be for commuting, although maybe not exclusively so; (2) I�ve had an older niterider �evolution� model (10 watts halogen, pre-digital) that has served me well for at least a few years, but I�m starting to think there are times when I�d like something a little brighter; (3) a brief flirtation with niterider�s new MiNewt model wasn�t so great�it�s a cool, versatile little light when it works, but it�s probably not quite as bright as I�d like, ideally, and the one I bought was pretty finicky (I think, but am not sure, that the problem had to do with the switch). So I�ve been looking at HID options under a few criteria�(1) significantly brighter than the 10 watt light (doesn�t have to be the brightest thing out there at all); (2) RELIABLE; and (3) trying to keep the cost down. Performance has a sale on a niterider model I haven�t seen elsewhere (the �enduro� HID) at 299 and also has a Topeak �moonshine� light at the same price. I know that some folks here like Light and Motion�their least expensive Arc HID costs more, but is probably still in the ballpark if it�s really better. Alternatives? Adjudication?

Serpico

11-29-2006, 03:45 PM

http://www.dinottelighting.com/

Johny

11-29-2006, 03:51 PM

I have a L&M ARC HID and like it. I would not buy Niterider's after reading many negative comments about their unstable system and BAD customer service.

Ozz

11-29-2006, 03:55 PM

I have a L&M ARC HID and like it.....
+1

The Dinotte system "Serpico" references sure looks cool...I am not sure how well the LED brightness compares to the HID. It would be cool if they were comparable.

My experience is that my L&M ARC HID puts out enough light that I can still descend at 30+ without over-running my light.

Riding at night is cool.....

BTW - I got mine from this guy: L&M ARC HID via ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Light-Motion-Arc-HID-Bike-Light-BRAND-NEW-IN-BOX-2007_W0QQitemZ170055248007QQihZ007QQcategoryZ22689 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

no relation to seller...but I have bought a couple things from him. I think I paid about $290 plus shipping. It looks like the price has gone up a little. He used to start the bidding at $279 or so.

djg

11-29-2006, 04:47 PM

http://www.dinottelighting.com/

Have you been using one of these? I guess I have the same question Ozz did--how bright is it? The company says that it's nearly as bright as 15 watt halogen (they either use the word "nearly" or the word "almost," I don't recall). The lights look cool and I really sorta liked the MiNewt -- the most similar thing I know -- (and liked aspects of it quite a bit). Overall, it seemed to me to throw adequate light for maybe 75% of my needs, but at times I found myself wanting something a little brighter. So is the 5 w dinotte really much better? I would like something brighter than my 10 watt halogen.

72gmc

11-29-2006, 05:22 PM

djg, I can't speak to the Dinotte, but I can offer experience with a similar light. This year I chose between two lights offered by Peter White: the Ixon (almost non-system) and the Dinotte (from all appearances a very smart system).

I wanted LED for the white light, relative durability of the light (as opposed to halogen bulbs), and long run time. I chose the Ixon in a rush for simplicity--it's all self-contained, and you don't even remove the batteries for charging.

Rainy and freezing months later, here's what I have learned:
1) It's brighter than the 10-watt Cygolite I had
2) It puts out better light than the halogens I've had, with very good peripheral illumination as well as a LOT of forward light that catches road signs a city block ahead... Peter's site has a good description of the optics
3) It delivers the run time promised--6 hours on high and 13 on low--and low is plenty for city commuting
4) It is noticed and respected by cars that are on and entering the roadway
5) It is tough, weatherproof, will bounce a long way if you get distracted and don't clip it on fully... and still works when you pick it up

I bet the Dinotte would be at least as good, and they have a killer taillight.

NateM

11-29-2006, 05:54 PM

I bought a Topeak Moonshine HID from Performance with a 20% off coupon,so it cost $240. Watch for sales. It comes with mounts for helmet and bars.The battery is lion and very small,I have it mounted to my stem.So far so good,nice light. I also have an older L&M Arc that runs on a NIMH batt,very good light but tres expensive.The ARC lights allow me to ride at speed in the dark and be seen by motorists,worth every penny.

Ken Robb

11-29-2006, 07:58 PM

for commuting you might like a Schmidt Dynohub or the cheaper Shimano hub. I have one on my Riv Allrounder which is my "no worries" bike: tough as hell, fat tires, friction shifters-nothing to break and no batteries to worry about. Heavy but effective for touring/commuting/ dirt roads,-whatever you find.

znfdl

11-29-2006, 08:14 PM

I use the L&M ARC HID and it lights up the bike path. I feel comfortable with this light in excess of 25mph. The L&M and it is paired with a Dinotte 3w led tail light.

The tail light is amazing, when I ride on the rode cars give me a 6 foot berth. If you look at the light it hurts your eyes.

Zard

11-29-2006, 08:19 PM

Over the years I have gone from a two light handlebar mounted NightSun to a Handlebar Niterider to a helmet mounted Niterider and now finally to a Jet Lite Helmet mount.

The niterider models were hit and miss. One worked great, never a problem, the other one never worked right even after a couple of trips back to the manufacturer.

The Jet Lite seems by far the most durable and trouble free and puts out a very bright light pattern.

If you are commuting it is nice to have a light set up on the bike. But, if you can have just one light I would go with a helmet mounted light. I have found it is as important if not more so to be able to point that light and get someone's attention as it is seeing the road in front of you. You can't do that if it is mounted on your handlebars.

JET will sell you either a 12 watt or 20 watt bulb normal or HID system. Check out the website I think it is Jetlites.com or you can google it. The 12 watt bulb I have is plenty. (There are two lower light levels as well) You can talk directly to the owner (very helpful gentleman) and he'll help you select and configure the best system for your needs.

I have never heard a complaint about a JET Lite and they continually seem to get 5 star ratings at mtbreview.com

PS You get what you pay for with lights. Spend a little extra.

bigbill

11-29-2006, 09:43 PM

I have been using a NR HID headlight for the past two years. Prior to that I had a NR digital evolution 15W that lasted for about 9 years before the battery quit and I was ready for HID. I have the straight HID version, no LEDs or different power settings. I also use the NR universal tail light. My morning commute is 13 miles completely in the dark and I have never been limited by my headlight. Nothing can touch an HID for visibility and it's ability to illuminate anything that is reflective. My old NR headlight was a PITA due to a poor design that required frequent repairs. I used to work on electronics, so I can solder well. I have had no reliability problems with my current headlight. I can get around 3.5 hours out of a charge when using the tail light. 4 hours without. The NiMH battery charges in under three hours. There are lights with longer lasting batteries, but I paid around $350 for this one and it is more than adequate for my needs.

Chad Engle

11-29-2006, 09:54 PM

Great service, great product, reasonably priced. You can rent one if you want to try it out. A friend and I rented the 12 watt version for a 12 hour mtb race. Worked great.

BdaGhisallo

11-30-2006, 05:22 AM

Try the Lupine Edison light, the 4, 5 or 10, depending on how much battery life you need. Very expensive, yes, but very much worth it. You can set your own light outputs if you wish and set as many levels as you like on the brightness. Very compact and very small Li-ion batteries.

www.lupine.de

Erik.Lazdins

11-30-2006, 07:22 AM

There are a few things I have bought that have exceeded my expectations. The L&M ARC is one of them.

The beam pattern of the light is fantastic, and the customer support I have received from them has floored me.

I've had it for 2 years and would buy another one. Until LED lights catch up to and surpass HID, HID is the best light out there.

Having recently had the light in, I rode with my old 15W turbo cat backup and can say that HID wipes the floor with Halogen. The beam is white as opposed to yellow, the beam projects about 5 times as far and about 5 times as wide. Its reassuring to have cars wait for you to pass before they pull out of their neighborhoods. In the rain where wet pavement dimishes effective light output, the L&M puts out enough to ride.

I've posted about this on other threads, however feel obliged to share my experiences about a truly great product.

djg

11-30-2006, 10:06 AM

Thanks folks. It seems that there are various interesting contenders out there, but that L & M has uniformly good reviews on their HID lights. I may be taking advantage of znfndl's lunchtime HID delivery service.

spiderman

11-30-2006, 10:16 AM

my hope vision light
for about a year now...
i love it!
i charge it once a week
or after 3 hours of use.
it is very bright.
the u.s. branch/company was very helpful
in sending me
an oversized plate
for my current bullhorns.

MarcusPless

11-30-2006, 11:42 AM

I've used one, and sometimes a pair, of L&M 10 watt halogen lights. Sometimes on the handlebar, sometimes on the helmet, and sometimes one of each. My application is commuting in town with a lot of high speed traffic. This also includes one or two 50 MPH descents. Even a single 10 watt halogen light was more than adequate when riding on a a fairly dark empty street (except on the high speed descent).

But as soon as I added oncoming headlights, streetlights, and other ambiant light sources to the mix I always found the halogen lights were getting washed out, and I would occasionally be surprised by the sound of some unseen bit of debris in the street getting kicked up by my rear tire. Most unsettling. I've been watching the various LED lights for the last couple of years, really, really wanting to purchase an LED based light. But after once again looking at the LED offerings at length several months ago I went ahead and bought a L&M HID. I bought the least expensive NIMH model when Performance had the light on sale and also had a 20% coupon. I think the total was right around $300.

For my money, HID technology is still the best for a "see" and "be seen" light. Most of the LEDs that I've seen personally might be OK as a "see" light, but they didn't have enough scatter to make a decent "be seen" light; they were too directional. With my HID light motorists (stopped at intersections) stare at me, which at least means they see me. And I haven't been flashed once by an oncoming car.

My .02

--Marcus

dekindy

12-02-2006, 09:53 PM

I bought a L&M Vega that I like well. Good light, smart charger, run times as advertised, self contained on bars-no external battery. I would have considered the Dinotte if I had seen it. Blackburn makes a light in the same price range as the Vega that you should look at.

rhmiller

12-03-2006, 01:50 AM

baby in left arm, so all lower case...

bought the lupine edison 5 recently to replace a niterider digital 12e that's served me well for 5 or 6 years but it slowly dying. last year i bought a 10w niterider helmet mount to augment the bar mounted 12e and the wire near the base of the battery is already starting to fray. no response to my query submitted through the niterider website, so i decided against another niterider. very happy with the lupine. the edison 5 has a small battery that mounts between the top tube and down tube, leaving the bottle cages free for bottles. it's also great for mb rides in the trails.

expensive. i believe replacement bulbs are expensive too, but haven't needed to find out for sure yet.

lights the other riders i go with include jet, lupine wilma model (i think), and i forget what else. still a few niteriders, but they're disappearing from the scene.

Ralph

CNY rider

12-03-2006, 07:23 AM

But as soon as I added oncoming headlights, streetlights, and other ambiant light sources to the mix I always found the halogen lights were getting washed out, and I would occasionally be surprised by the sound of some unseen bit of debris in the street getting kicked up by my rear tire. Most unsettling. I've been watching the various LED lights for the last couple of years, really, really wanting to purchase an LED based light. But after once again looking at the LED offerings at length several months ago I went ahead and bought a L&M HID. I bought the least expensive NIMH model when Performance had the light on sale and also had a 20% coupon. I think the total was right around $300.

For my money, HID technology is still the best for a "see" and "be seen" light. Most of the LEDs that I've seen personally might be OK as a "see" light, but they didn't have enough scatter to make a decent "be seen" light; they were too directional. With my HID light motorists (stopped at intersections) stare at me, which at least means they see me. And I haven't been flashed once by an oncoming car.

My .02

--Marcus

I bought the same light, during the same sale I believe.

I have a similar descent on the way to work, done in the dark. The light is really impressive; excellent output, and wide dispersion of the light.

Only problem I have had is short run time. I went back through the directions. Turns out you should unplug the cable from the battery when not in use, which I wasn't doing. Apparently I was discharging the light by leaving it attached.

How much run time are you getting per charge, on the high setting?

Ahneida Ride

12-03-2006, 08:03 AM

http://www.dinottelighting.com/

I have their tail light. It's bright enough to be seen on the Lunar surface.
Actually "high" may be too bright. Some of my buddies may recall my Pizza story. It MUST be aimed down. Not directly at cars.

I wonder just how bright the front light is ????

rbtmcardle

12-03-2006, 08:10 AM

MarcusPless

12-03-2006, 09:58 AM

How much run time are you getting per charge, on the high setting?

I'm not sure as I've never run it all the way down. I'm pretty sure that I've been able to get at least 2.5 hours of life out of the battery between charges. My commute is 1 - 1.5 hours each way, but typically only one direction will be in the dark, so 3 - 3.5 hours of light is more than enough for me. I also drop it down to the 10 watt setting after the high speed descent, since even 10 watts from a HID is more than enough light for someone to see me.

--Marcus

rasterdogs

12-03-2006, 01:03 PM

I just received my Dinotte 5w headlight 3w taillight package, I havent ridden with it yet but it is comparable to my old 15w Niterider digital evolution. Seems to be very well made. My first dark commute will be Monday night, I am looking forward to seeing how it works, wow, is the tailight bright.

I have the Dinotte taillight and have it aimed downwards a bit, only use it on the lower setting. It it quite bright even on low.

I like the light a bunch but use a seatbag. IMSHO Dinotte could improve the taillight by having a more flexible set of mounting options. The o-ring/ body chamfer works well on a seatpost. But if you aren't mounting it that way you'll need to be fabricating some other means of mounting the taillight.

-JimD

Steelhead

12-04-2006, 11:19 AM

znfdl

12-04-2006, 11:47 AM

I have the Dinotte taillight and have it aimed downwards a bit, only use it on the lower setting. It it quite bright even on low.

I like the light a bunch but use a seatbag. IMSHO Dinotte could improve the taillight by having a more flexible set of mounting options. The o-ring/ body chamfer works well on a seatpost. But if you aren't mounting it that way you'll need to be fabricating some other means of mounting the taillight.

-JimD

JimD:

I have the same complaint. I am getting a minoura 130mm wide spacegrip. This usually goes on the handlebars, but I will mount it to my seatpost and then mount the light on the spoacegrip. Will let you know how it works.

I have rigged up a piece of PVC for commuter, which works well, but is butt ugly.

djg

12-04-2006, 12:03 PM

I was checking out the new Nite Rider MiNewt yesterday at REI -- man that is a killer little light! And if you are looking for commuting, that would be a great light, and at $159 retail it isn't nearly as high as other rechargables. I'll be getting one soon..... :banana:

As I said, I had one for a while and returned it. It was a cool light, but I was finding the switch very finicky in weird ways that, on a couple of occasions, were a huge pain. Also, while it put out ample light for most conditions, I found it a little bit low when the pace picked up or the ambient light/shadow stuff got tricky--I could always see where I was going basically, but I couldn't always see what I was riding over. On/off is easy as pie -- great if you're switching bikes -- weight is next to nothing, and the flash mode works great (excellent visibility in morning fog or haze w/out seeming to burn battery time), but mine didn't work for me. If you like these, you might check out the performance pricing, as they have a 20% off sale now.

Z--I'm liking the HID and will probably take the plunge.

znfdl

12-04-2006, 12:19 PM

djg:

Glad you like the loaner. As I said once you go HID you can't go back ;)

djg

12-05-2006, 10:03 PM

So I went ahead and ordered a Light and Motion ARC HID (the cheaper one, with the NIMH battery). Performance had them on sale, and had a 20% discount on top of the sale price--it's still 280 bucks for a bike light, but what the heck, it's nice to be able to see.

znfndl had kindly lent me the same model (his backup) and it was working for me--riding home yesterday and this evening, visibility was just decidedly better than it had been with my halogen lamp. My only complaint, really, was that, although I could see the path and road suface extremely well, for some reason it seemed really cold.

MarcusPless

12-06-2006, 08:02 AM

If you ride in the drops and plant your chin right next to the light housing it can also serve as a nose warmer. :D

--Marcus

sg8357

12-06-2006, 10:51 AM

Light performance is affected by where you mount the light. Lowering the light will make the beam pattern longer and give better shadows.
I moved my primary light from the handle bar to 3/4 way down the fork and 4 inches forward of the fork, now I have a much longer beam pattern.
Before I needed two lights running to make that large a beam pattern.
I kept the secondary light up on the handlebar where I can flip it on and off.

Overall the dual 3w lights are than better than a single 10w niterider.

Setup: Schmidt Dynohub and primary and secondary B&M 3w lights.
Bike is a Stan Pike Audax with light braze ons on the fork.
Cateye 1w led light as stand light and flashlight.

Scott G.

CNY rider

12-06-2006, 11:20 AM

72gmc

12-06-2006, 12:57 PM

I've wondered about light positioning myself. Peter White has a fork crown mount for my Ixon headlight that looks smart. I figure I'll get slightly better vision with the light mounted lower, but what about visibility? I don't currently have a second light mounted on my helmet, so a well-aimed handlebar light seems to be the best of both worlds wrt seeing and beeing seen. But I'm happy to be corrected on that.

thejen12

12-06-2006, 01:37 PM