OT: NYTimes article on watches

[monkeybanana86]

I know we have some watch aficionados here. I got my Seiko auto based on recs here :)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/style/collectible-watches.html?action=click&module=Features&pgtype=Homepage

[doubleklobbs]

I was a great fan of mechanical wrist watches, but this particular segment of the hobby totally turned me off the whole thing. I stopped reading Hodinkee because they would report on watch auctions as if these men were performing acts of bravery and heroism by winning a Daytona watch auction. "The room was electrified as the hammer neared dropping" - as if. It's another way for the mega rich to shelter their money, and undoubtedly doesn't stop anywhere short of money laundering like the art auction world. It's a grotesque performance.

I still peek my head into that world from time to time, but I mostly just stick to beating up my Squale. Whatever 285,000CHF piece MB&F comes out with next no longer interests me at all because of the wealthy circus of vanity.

[FlashUNC]

I love my Seiko autos and my Hamilton hand cranker field watch and my Grand Seiko quartz.

The values are eyepopping, but I find watches just as fun at the shallow end of the pool, comparatively speaking.

[AngryScientist]

I was a great fan of mechanical wrist watches, but this particular segment of the hobby totally turned me off the whole thing. I stopped reading Hodinkee because they would report on watch auctions as if these men were performing acts of bravery and heroism by winning a Daytona watch auction. "The room was electrified as the hammer neared dropping" - as if. It's another way for the mega rich to shelter their money, and undoubtedly doesn't stop anywhere short of money laundering like the art auction world. It's a grotesque performance.

I still peek my head into that world from time to time, but I mostly just stick to beating up my Squale. Whatever 285,000CHF piece MB&F comes out with next no longer interests me at all because of the wealthy circus of vanity.

just like you can't let yourself get discouraged about fun cars just because the price of air cooled porsches has gone insane - there are lots of great watches out there in the highly affordable range.

i just acquired this little number, one of the least expensive watches i've ever bought, and i'm loving it!

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-elaLJPDPvdY/XI2Q2g8XAZI/AAAAAAAADKk/OCzsjYAxx306Wu3LiKlptxv4WhBaTr4IgCLcBGAs/s900/IMG_3492.jpg

[benb]

These things hardly seem like Blue Chip investments (from the article).

It's like $250k 1959 Sunburst Gibson Les Paul auctions, there are a small # of people who are willing to pay that but there is no guarantee they will always exist.

Not that it has anything to do with a fun accessible watch or a $2000 2019 Les Paul.

[ftf]

These things hardly seem like Blue Chip investments (from the article).

It's like $250k 1959 Sunburst Gibson Les Paul auctions, there are a small # of people who are willing to pay that but there is no guarantee they will always exist.

Not that it has anything to do with a fun accessible watch or a $2000 2019 Les Paul.

Most people people, even in the developed world, have just as much ability to be able to afford a 2000 dollar watch/guitar, as as 250k one....

I too used to be interested in watches, but the reality is they are just status symbols, I bought a apple watch which has 100% more functionality than any mechanical watch, sure it's not as "cool" but I haven't worn any of my mechanical watches since I got it, and probably will sell them.

[buddybikes]

I can understand the handmade stuff, but Rolex's aren't exactly hand made...
The grand complications of Patek and others are true works of art (saw ones at a Geneva show in 90's, think it was this one or very similar

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/01/02/patek-philippes-art-of-watches-2/


Note what it is "worth" vs what you can get after commissions is a different matter!

[AngryScientist]

I too used to be interested in watches, but the reality is they are just status symbols,.

Disagree with this being the "reality". I wear a mechanical watch every day. I guarantee no one around me has any idea what brand my watch is or if it costs more than a timex, so i doubt i get any status cred for it.

I bought a apple watch which has 100% more functionality than any mechanical watch

go for a 3 day backpacking trip and dont take any chargers with you. let us know if that 100% figure is 100% accurate. :p

[ftf]

Disagree with this being the "reality". I wear a mechanical watch every day. I guarantee no one around me has any idea what brand my watch is or if it costs more than a timex, so i doubt i get any status cred for it.

Why wear it? A cheap quartz watch is more functional, esp something like a Gshock.



go for a 3 day backpacking trip and dont take any chargers with you. let us know if that 100% figure is 100% accurate. :p

Gshock, garmin Fenix, but I don't go backpacking. A heavy mechanical watch isn't very functional for backpacking.

[doubleklobbs]

just like you can't let yourself get discouraged about fun cars just because the price of air cooled porsches has gone insane - there are lots of great watches out there in the highly affordable range.

Oh totally. It's just something I was keenly consuming before, but now I just quietly keep to myself with the couple of watches I already own and rotate through. I'll still strike up a conversation if I notice someone with a particularly cool watch on though.

This was my last buy before I jumped off the ship.

https://i.imgur.com/j2CHHQD.png

[choke]

A variant of this has been used for all kinds of things (including bikes) but I think it applies - "How do you make a million dollars buying watches? Start with two million." Certainly there are watches that have gone up in value to reach crazy numbers in the last few years but that's a bubble that will undoubtedly burst at some point. It's similar to what happened with muscle cars many years ago.

Disagree with this being the "reality". I wear a mechanical watch every day. I guarantee no one around me has any idea what brand my watch is or if it costs more than a timex, so i doubt i get any status cred for it. Bingo. The only people who have any idea of what's on my wrist are other watch nuts.

A heavy mechanical watch isn't very functional for backpacking.While it doesn't only apply to mechanical watches, a watch with an analog face can function as a compass when the GPS stops working. https://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Analog-Watch-as-a-Compass

[glepore]

Oh totally. It's just something I was keenly consuming before, but now I just quietly keep to myself with the couple of watches I already own and rotate through. I'll still strike up a conversation if I notice someone with a particularly cool watch on though.

This was my last buy before I jumped off the ship.

https://i.imgur.com/j2CHHQD.png



Now thats a cool watch. I get the old watch thing, even if its become a “thing.” But I ll content myself with cheap vintage stuff like omega connies and seamasters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlashUNC]

Why wear it? A cheap quartz watch is more functional, esp something like a Gshock.




Gshock, garmin Fenix, but I don't go backpacking. A heavy mechanical watch isn't very functional for backpacking.

If only they made mechanical watches designed to exist in the field. Something slim so it doesn't get caught on anything, rugged still, simple and reliable.

Maybe they'd even call them field watches.

Sure, a Rolex Deep Sea Dweller is silly for the backpacking excursion. But a Tudor Ranger? A Hamilton Khaki Field? A Seiko Alpinist?

Ye Gods man, that's what those watches are built for.

[ftf]

If only they made mechanical watches designed to exist in the field. Something slim so it doesn't get caught on anything, rugged still, simple and reliable.

Maybe they'd even call them field watches.

Sure, a Rolex Deep Sea Dweller is silly for the backpacking excursion. But a Tudor Ranger? A Hamilton Khaki Field? A Seiko Alpinist?

Ye Gods man, that's what those watches are built for.

Time, and technology has moved on, I doubt anyone on a serious expedition is using any of those watches these days, just as Pilots aren't using IWC Fliegers.

Quartz watches are superior, in every measurable way, to mechanical watches, not to even mention smart watches.

And since you mentioned diving watches, are you sure you don't want a diving computer instead? Seriously.

[MattTuck]

Time, and technology has moved on, I doubt anyone on a serious expedition is using any of those watches these days, just as Pilots aren't using IWC Fliegers.

Quartz watches are superior, in every measurable way, to mechanical watches, not to even mention smart watches.

And since you mentioned diving watches, are you sure you don't want a diving computer instead? Seriously.

If you're on an expedition sponsored by Rolex, then yes, you wear a Rolex. And the photographer documents you wearing it :)

I have a friend that works in the classic car market, and he observed that production numbers are the most important thing to determine value. I'd expect that to be true for watches as well. There are a few very rare cars, and the rest are mass market examples that will never fetch a high price tag. I wouldn't expect a current volume produced Speedmaster to ever be worth more than retail.

I do think that the watch companies are highly involved in the second hand market to create the illusion that these pieces are a good "investment". When selling a premium product it helps with the mental accounting if you can amortize the cost over your whole life and the lives of your children and grand children.

[RFC]

About 15 years ago, I dabbled in Swiss autos. At one point, I began to see them for what they are -- expensive jewelry -- and sold most of them. A couple of years ago, I got back into watches, but this time watches that are (or were) actually worn by divers. That means solid Seikos and Citizens. I found these to be as much or more fun and somehow more honest.

In phase one of my watch collecting, I also picked up a few vintage divers, mostly Doxa. The problem with vintage divers is that, well, they're vintage and no longer trustworthy for their intended purpose. To me, watches are gear and I am a gear head. If you have your wristwatch and pocket knife, your kit is complete and you are ready for adventure.

In the digital age, watches are an anachronism to most people. Only watch geeks recognize what you are wearing.

Prices for Swiss watches have gone through the roof. I too wonder how long this trend will continue.

BTW, if you have a WSJ subscription (I need to renew mine) there is a great article on Oct 26, 2017 that tells the detailed story of Paul Newman's Daytona.

In the meantime, I am quite happy wearing my Seikos. As I write this post, I am wearing my Seiko Darth Tuna.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7907/46714844424_c65e2cf7e5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eb2MJ9)IMG_5568 (https://flic.kr/p/2eb2MJ9) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[NYCfixie]

People collect bikes, baseball cards, comic books, watches, etc.

The price should not matter to anyone other than the purchaser/collector.

- I ride bikes but have only 1 (at this point in time).

- I read and collected comic books with my younger brother for no other reason than it was fun when we were kids. Now they sit in his basement untouched because his kids are not interested and neither of us have the time or desire to sell them (there is at least 1 original ninja turtles in there that should be worth some real money).

- I wear mechanical watches and purchased a new Rolex Explorer II Polar dial after my first big job promotion 25 years ago. At the time, I liked it better then black dial Rolex watches. Did I do it to impress others? No. Would I have been better off purchasing a Submariner which would be worth more money now? Yes, but who knew. Now that the Explorer II Polar has gained popularity it is going up in price so should I sell it? Maybe but it comes with 25 years of my personal experience, there was no Apple watch at the time, I find the Apple watch silly, and at some point I will gift it to my nephew.

My point is that whatever people think about mechanical watches and their current costs, someone else thinks the same way about something you enjoy and/or value.

To each his own I always say.
And as my grandfather always use to say, "It is only advice is someone asks for it, otherwise it is just an opinion, so keep it to yourself if you might offend the other person or hurt their feelings."

https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachments/f39/103328d1502035177-timepieces-img_0374-jpg

[joosttx]

People collect bikes, baseball cards, comic books, watches, etc.
My point is that whatever people think about mechanical watches and their current costs, someone else thinks the same way about something you enjoy and/or value.

To each his own I always say.
And as my grandfather always use to say, "It is only advice is someone asks for it, otherwise it is just an opinion, so keep it to yourself if you might offend the other person or hurt their feelings."

https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachments/f39/103328d1502035177-timepieces-img_0374-jpg

I value my children, my wife and what we created. Whoever doesn't get that... oh well. I have no time for watches or stuff like that. I was given a rolex and I lost it for about 2 years. Of course, I was disappointed and but I figured, oh well, I did not pay anything for it. Eventually, I found it in a sock drawer. I never wear it though.

[AngryScientist]

for me:

i'm a dorky engineer. i have spent my entire education and career around intricate machines of many sorts, and they all fascinate me.

a good mechanical watch, with it's many small moving parts, is amazing to me. the amount of abuse that the watch can take, and the machine still runs, keeping time to a pretty damn good accuracy is just mind boggling. in some respects, it's a very simple machine, in others, it's super detailed.

anyway, why do i still wear mechanical watches? status has absolutely nothing to do with it. i often find myself just staring at the sweep second hand, effortlessly gliding around the dial, and my mind drifts to what's happening inside. the gears, the pendulum, the jewels - all doing their thing. second after second, hour after hour, day after day.

it's so cool!

it's also not uncommon for me to stare at my watch for several minutes and have no idea what time it is.

dont judge me :)

[NYCfixie]

...I was given a rolex and I lost it for about 2 years. Of course, I was disappointed and but I figured, oh well, I did not pay anything for it. Eventually, I found it in a sock drawer. I never wear it though.

Still have it? What model? Want to sell it? :)

[joosttx]

Still have it? What model? Want to sell it? :)

It’s a midsize silver (stainless steel?) date adjust with a white gold bezel Ca 2011. I have no idea what it is worth. $800??

[eippo1]

for me:




it's so cool!



it's also not uncommon for me to stare at my watch for several minutes and have no idea what time it is.



dont judge me :)

Ditto for me. I love my watches. Most are cheap. Some are sentimental. Some were gifts. Have mechanicals, autos, and a Suunto but rarely use it. (Also I'm aware that I haven't adjusted a couple for DST and one is in need of movement.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/0e650ae67e2359be867e7b077896a9fd.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[choke]

It’s a midsize silver (stainless steel?) date adjust with a white gold bezel Ca 2011. I have no idea what it is worth. $800??Eh....a bit more than $800.

[oldpotatoe]

Here we go again..bought 42 years ago for $645..worth in the high 4 figures now..YOWSER!! NUTZ!!

[Tickdoc]

I used to collect, then '08 hit and I realized how silly it was to have so many watches. I would spend most of my free time searching and researching always waiting for that next one to light my fancy. Before the internet was as good as it is now, there were only a select few that knew where to go to find good deals. I had dealer connections in Germany, in Chicago, in Connecticut. I Used to travel to watch shows, and I still have many friends from those days. I never viewed them as an investment, even though I had some valuable ones. I valued the cheap ones just as much. I parsed my collection down to just about a dozen, of which only about three or four get worn regularly.

I like the mechanical handbuilt nature of them, like bikes.

Now I collect bikes, so I really just replaced one addicting hobby with another. I miss how a dozen watched took up space on a shelf, where a dozen bikes? I never had a watch room, but now I have a bike room :) So silly.

[doubleklobbs]

It’s a midsize silver (stainless steel?) date adjust with a white gold bezel Ca 2011. I have no idea what it is worth. $800??

Roughly ~$6k unless it's super beat up.

[AngryScientist]

timely thread as i'm currently chasing a pretty special/cool watch that i've been after for at least 5 years, since i became aware of it's existence.

[wallymann]

they do indeed exist...a-la this precista G10 field-watch...issued by UK MoD in 1984...durable and accurate and unobtrusive on the wrist!

http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/precista_w10_milwatch.jpg


If only they made mechanical watches designed to exist in the field. Something slim so it doesn't get caught on anything, rugged still, simple and reliable.

Maybe they'd even call them field watches.

Sure, a Rolex Deep Sea Dweller is silly for the backpacking excursion. But a Tudor Ranger? A Hamilton Khaki Field? A Seiko Alpinist?

Ye Gods man, that's what those watches are built for.



omega regularly produces limited editions of their standard moonwatch that fetch well over list price. speedy tuesday. tin tin. ultraman. etc.

...I wouldn't expect a current volume produced Speedmaster to ever be worth more than retail...


today's selection...a-la "unimatic" microbrand

https://instagram.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/vp/a2821c0f8bcf465d04f03854c0ce1651/5D1CC7F4/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s640x640/52655732_405057733590245_5921152847069631444_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=instagram.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net

[oldpotatoe]

Time, and technology has moved on, I doubt anyone on a serious expedition is using any of those watches these days, just as Pilots aren't using IWC Fliegers.

Quartz watches are superior, in every measurable way, to mechanical watches, not to even mention smart watches.

And since you mentioned diving watches, are you sure you don't want a diving computer instead? Seriously.

You sure you aren't talking about disc brakes on a bike?:eek:

I 'guess' you can 'measure' price, of a vintage Rolex...mine is worth about $8000...bought for $645 in 1978..

BTW-A LOT of pilots use Rolex GMT Master...before United hit the skids, they awarded their new Captains a GMTMaster..NO need to use a wrist mounted watch to make calculations ala a Jeppsen calculator...Like I used to carry...in 1972...:eek:

[NYCfixie]

Roughly ~$6k unless it's super beat up.

Incorrect.

Datejusts are one of the least desirable and drop in price more than others. The current retail is $8200 for the new 36mm steel with white gold bezel announced yesterday at Basel World but that has a newer movement, better case, and updated bracelet. Used Rolex DateJust prices also depend on the size 36mm, 41mm, 42mm (Datejust II), dial color, condition, and many other factors.

One can get a sense here but remember that you are getting the "sell" price and not the "buy" price that private and commercial buyers ask - there is a decent spread between the two:
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-datejust-1.html
https://www.crownandcaliber.com/collections/rolex-datejust-watches
https://www.chrono24.com/


For me, I would not spend $6,000 on a used DateJust when I know I can get a new one for $8,200 because with the used one you take a chance (like with a used car) and at several years old it needs a service which can cost about $750 at an authorized Rolex service center.

As for OPs GMT Master, who knew that would be worth so much. I would consider it as well for what he thinks it is worth because he may be in the ballpark depending on condition and having original box and warranty paperwork. The most important factors being if the case has ever been polished and who serviced the watch over the years because irreparable damage may have occurred or the use of non-oem parts which would also be bad.

[oldpotatoe]

Incorrect.

Datejusts are one of the least desirable and drop in price more than others. The current retail is $8200 for the new 36mm steel with white gold bezel announced yesterday at Basel World but that has a newer movement, better case, and updated bracelet. Used Rolex DateJust prices also depend on the size 36mm, 41mm, 42mm (Datejust II), dial color, condition, and many other factors.

One can get a sense here but remember that you are getting the "sell" price and not the "buy" price that private and commercial buyers ask - there is a decent spread between the two:
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-datejust-1.html
https://www.crownandcaliber.com/collections/rolex-datejust-watches
https://www.chrono24.com/


For me, I would not spend $6,000 on a used DateJust when I know I can get a new one for $8,200 because with the used one you take a chance (like with a used car) and at several years old it needs a service which can cost about $750 at an authorized Rolex service center.

As for OPs GMT Master, who knew that would be worth so much. I would consider it as well for what he thinks it is worth because he may be in the ballpark depending on condition and having original box and warranty paperwork. The most important factors being if the case has ever been polished and who serviced the watch over the years because irreparable damage may have occurred or the use of non-oem parts which would also be bad.

Yup
Nope
Rolex NY

[RFC]

LOL, '08 was a game changer in a whole lot of ways! In addition to the stock market, my practice crashed, my marriage disintegrated and my mother died. I was in a coma for the next couple of years. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? Better days now.:)

I used to collect, then '08 hit and I realized how silly it was to have so many watches. I would spend most of my free time searching and researching always waiting for that next one to light my fancy. Before the internet was as good as it is now, there were only a select few that knew where to go to find good deals. I had dealer connections in Germany, in Chicago, in Connecticut. I Used to travel to watch shows, and I still have many friends from those days. I never viewed them as an investment, even though I had some valuable ones. I valued the cheap ones just as much. I parsed my collection down to just about a dozen, of which only about three or four get worn regularly.

I like the mechanical handbuilt nature of them, like bikes.

Now I collect bikes, so I really just replaced one addicting hobby with another. I miss how a dozen watched took up space on a shelf, where a dozen bikes? I never had a watch room, but now I have a bike room :) So silly.

[doubleklobbs]

Incorrect.

Datejusts are one of the least desirable and drop in price more than others. The current retail is $8200 for the new 36mm steel with white gold bezel announced yesterday at Basel World but that has a newer movement, better case, and updated bracelet. Used Rolex DateJust prices also depend on the size 36mm, 41mm, 42mm (Datejust II), dial color, condition, and many other factors.

One can get a sense here but remember that you are getting the "sell" price and not the "buy" price that private and commercial buyers ask - there is a decent spread between the two:
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-datejust-1.html
https://www.crownandcaliber.com/collections/rolex-datejust-watches
https://www.chrono24.com/


For me, I would not spend $6,000 on a used DateJust when I know I can get a new one for $8,200 because with the used one you take a chance (like with a used car) and at several years old it needs a service which can cost about $750 at an authorized Rolex service center.


You're totally correct on all of your points.

I just glanced at Watchrecon and averaged out 41mm SS / white gold asking prices, which was low end $6k. All three of your links support this too. 2011 is also in the bottom of the trough, not having any age significance and way too close to the new market. Mostly wanted to make sure OP didn't do something silly and sell it off for $800 ;)

[joosttx]

Incorrect.

Datejusts are one of the least desirable and drop in price more than others. The current retail is $8200 for the new 36mm steel with white gold bezel announced yesterday at Basel World but that has a newer movement, better case, and updated bracelet. Used Rolex DateJust prices also depend on the size 36mm, 41mm, 42mm (Datejust II), dial color, condition, and many other factors.

One can get a sense here but remember that you are getting the "sell" price and not the "buy" price that private and commercial buyers ask - there is a decent spread between the two:
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-datejust-1.html
https://www.crownandcaliber.com/collections/rolex-datejust-watches
https://www.chrono24.com/


For me, I would not spend $6,000 on a used DateJust when I know I can get a new one for $8,200 because with the used one you take a chance (like with a used car) and at several years old it needs a service which can cost about $750 at an authorized Rolex service center.

As for OPs GMT Master, who knew that would be worth so much. I would consider it as well for what he thinks it is worth because he may be in the ballpark depending on condition and having original box and warranty paperwork. The most important factors being if the case has ever been polished and who serviced the watch over the years because irreparable damage may have occurred or the use of non-oem parts which would also be bad.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7841/40475664913_668a7c98ed_b.jpg

- original box YES
- original warranty card/paperwork YES
- Is it 36mm Datejust or 42m DateJust II 36MM
- Is it oyster or jubilee bracelet NOT SURE
- What color dial SILVER
- Do you know what model it is (should be numerical only number on the warranty card/paperwork) NOT SURE
- When was it last serviced NEVER (HAVE A COUPON FOR FREE SERVICE THOUGH)
- Has anyone ever opened the back? Was it opened by an authorized Rolex dealer? NO

[joosttx]

Roughly ~$6k unless it's super beat up.

damn, but I rather have a bike. someone has inquired about it. I will probably sell it to them.

[coreyaugustus]

This was my last buy before I jumped off the ship.

https://i.imgur.com/j2CHHQD.png

I don't wear wristwatches because they're annoying, I bang them on everything, and my phone tells time. But every time I wander over to the Petrolicious site, I am tempted to pick up an autodromo and imagine having the Lancia to match.

[joosttx]

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7841/40475664913_668a7c98ed_b.jpg

- original box YES
- original warranty card/paperwork YES
- Is it 36mm Datejust or 42m DateJust II 36MM
- Is it oyster or jubilee bracelet NOT SURE
- What color dial SILVER
- Do you know what model it is (should be numerical only number on the warranty card/paperwork) NOT SURE
- When was it last serviced NEVER (HAVE A COUPON FOR FREE SERVICE THOUGH)
- Has anyone ever opened the back? Was it opened by an authorized Rolex dealer? NO

Here are some more details

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7924/46718782864_3d82c67e7f_b.jpg

[img

[FlashUNC]

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7841/40475664913_668a7c98ed_b.jpg

- original box YES
- original warranty card/paperwork YES
- Is it 36mm Datejust or 42m DateJust II 36MM
- Is it oyster or jubilee bracelet NOT SURE
- What color dial SILVER
- Do you know what model it is (should be numerical only number on the warranty card/paperwork) NOT SURE
- When was it last serviced NEVER (HAVE A COUPON FOR FREE SERVICE THOUGH)
- Has anyone ever opened the back? Was it opened by an authorized Rolex dealer? NO

PM sent. Let's see if some cash and brewskis can shake this one loose.

[NYCfixie]

Very classic 36mm DateJust with jubilee bracelet, silver dial, roman numerals, white gold bezel, and box and papers. Needs a service though as oils break down over time. If the range is from 5800-6200 you may get the higher end if it is in very good condition with very few (if any) scratches and because you have the box and warranty papers.

The only downside is that Rolex makes so many of these they are literally a dime a dozen.

Most people do not know that authorized Rolex dealers must sell at least 7 unwanted watches (oyster perpetual, datejust, celinni, etc) for each 1 stainless steel sports watch (deep sea, daytona, submariner, submariner date, explorer, explorer II, etc) that they are allocated. This is why steel sports watches are in such high demand and why you see authorized dealers dumping non desirable watches the gray market and why the gray market has so many at discounted prices. Ever wonder why a datejust is 20-30% less than retail list gray market but a new steel sports watch is at lest 20% more than retail on the gray market?

You should be able to get at most 70% of the 5800-6200 mentioned above if you sell it to a retailer or one of the online retailers. Some private sellers might offer more (or less) but they will want to use an escrow service and you will need to send the watch and be ready for it to be returned if it is not in the condition you stated (or they assumed it would be).

If you do not use it, sell it and get a bike. All Rolex watches are hot now because of the serious wait on the steel sports watches and the fact that many who want any Rolex cannot afford the authorized dealer new retail price even on the less desirable ones.

This is just one person's opinion but I have been reading about, researching, collecting, and enjoying (mostly Rolex) watches for much of my adult life. And, they take less room to store than bikes.




https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7841/40475664913_668a7c98ed_b.jpg

- original box YES
- original warranty card/paperwork YES
- Is it 36mm Datejust or 42m DateJust II 36MM
- Is it oyster or jubilee bracelet NOT SURE
- What color dial SILVER
- Do you know what model it is (should be numerical only number on the warranty card/paperwork) NOT SURE
- When was it last serviced NEVER (HAVE A COUPON FOR FREE SERVICE THOUGH)
- Has anyone ever opened the back? Was it opened by an authorized Rolex dealer? NO

[doubleklobbs]

I don't wear wristwatches because they're annoying, I bang them on everything, and my phone tells time. But every time I wander over to the Petrolicious site, I am tempted to pick up an autodromo and imagine having the Lancia to match.

Being into watches, vintage cars, and industrial design, I always felt that Bradley Price (who started Autodromo) was me in a much cooler, more risk-taking, parallel universe.

[572cv]

for me:

i'm a dorky engineer. i have spent my entire education and career around intricate machines of many sorts, and they all fascinate me.

a good mechanical watch, with it's many small moving parts, is amazing to me. the amount of abuse that the watch can take, and the machine still runs, keeping time to a pretty damn good accuracy is just mind boggling. in some respects, it's a very simple machine, in others, it's super detailed.

......

dont judge me :)

I too am fascinated with mechanical intricacies. The ones in watches are remarkable achievements, and teach us about the capabilities of different eras in a tangible way. Here is such a device, albeit not a wrist watch, but a pocket watch. It was used by a conductor on a train and was made by the Hamilton Watch Company, who knows when. It has a gun metal cover, for protection, with a soft cloth interior. The bezel is raised to come flush with the cover. At the 11 o’clock angle there is a hole through the cover and case, through which the chain was fastened. You can wind the watch, but cannot change the time without removing/unscrewing the front bezel. This allows a lever at about 2 o’clock to be engaged, and the time can be reset. The conductors were responsible for keeping the trains on time, and could not have their watches accidentally reset, so this was the failsafe. The workmanship and machining of the works is self evident. Seventeen jewels and a safety pinion. I still don’t know what a safety pinion is and why it is a feature. Hamilton built the watch and the Philadelphia Watch Case Co built the case as a proud subcontractor. This thing still keeps (practically) perfect time.

[joosttx]

PM sent. Let's see if some cash and brewskis can shake this one loose.

It’s a deal $2k and a Pliny! Enjoy

[rwsaunders]

Houston...set your Rollo to 10:10...the official time for advertising a watch.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/watch-watches-time-adverts-same-10-10-a6948421.html

[Climb01742]

I never wear my Explorer II but I’m glad I keep it well protected and have kept all the bits and bobs it came with. It’s interesting that the sport watches are the most desired. Personally, I like their cleaner, less flashy look.

[joosttx]

Houston...set your Rollo to 10:10...the official time for advertising a watch.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/watch-watches-time-adverts-same-10-10-a6948421.html

Damn. On it!

[FlashUNC]

Houston...set your Rollo to 10:10...the official time for advertising a watch.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/watch-watches-time-adverts-same-10-10-a6948421.html

Seiko, being Seiko, sets their official demo time at 10:08:42.

[kingpin75s]

Very classic 36mm DateJust with jubilee bracelet, silver dial, roman numerals, white gold bezel, and box and papers. Needs a service though as oils break down over time. If the range is from 5800-6200 you may get the higher end if it is in very good condition with very few (if any) scratches and because you have the box and warranty papers.

The only downside is that Rolex makes so many of these they are literally a dime a dozen.

Most people do not know that authorized Rolex dealers must sell at least 7 unwanted watches (oyster perpetual, datejust, celinni, etc) for each 1 stainless steel sports watch (deep sea, daytona, submariner, submariner date, explorer, explorer II, etc) that they are allocated. This is why steel sports watches are in such high demand and why you see authorized dealers dumping non desirable watches the gray market and why the gray market has so many at discounted prices. Ever wonder why a datejust is 20-30% less than retail list gray market but a new steel sports watch is at lest 20% more than retail on the gray market?

You should be able to get at most 70% of the 5800-6200 mentioned above if you sell it to a retailer or one of the online retailers. Some private sellers might offer more (or less) but they will want to use an escrow service and you will need to send the watch and be ready for it to be returned if it is not in the condition you stated (or they assumed it would be).

If you do not use it, sell it and get a bike. All Rolex watches are hot now because of the serious wait on the steel sports watches and the fact that many who want any Rolex cannot afford the authorized dealer new retail price even on the less desirable ones.

This is just one person's opinion but I have been reading about, researching, collecting, and enjoying (mostly Rolex) watches for much of my adult life. And, they take less room to store than bikes.

Nice watch. Looks familiar ;)

All this seems reasonable even if a bit on the optimistic end of pricing IMHO. I understand what the market is offering, however anyone really interested in watches can do better than even 70% of the range above.

If watches are an actual passion, one should first be a member of your local NAWCC chapter. Just like a bike community, this is where you will find connections both for service and opportunities to buy.

My costs have been far less than what everyone has represented here both on acquisitions and on servicing, but I was as connected to the watch community as I am to the bike community.

[benb]

Most people people, even in the developed world, have just as much ability to be able to afford a 2000 dollar watch/guitar, as as 250k one....

I too used to be interested in watches, but the reality is they are just status symbols, I bought a apple watch which has 100% more functionality than any mechanical watch, sure it's not as "cool" but I haven't worn any of my mechanical watches since I got it, and probably will sell them.

All I meant is the NY Times was a little too credulous about these being investments.. of course a couple of guys in the collecting industry making big bucks on the collecting industry are going to sell that up.

By all means they're fun but it's a little silly to think they are safe investments and always will be.

My taste in watches runs more Citizen or Seiko I guess, though I like a lot of the stuff people put pictures up of. My taste would either be dive styling or the vintage military styling. But I haven't worn a watch really since about 2015. I had a Titanium case/band Perpetual Calendar Citizen Eco Tech watch rated to 250m that I wore daily for about 10 years and loved... it had a Sapphire Crystal face and yet I somehow managed to scratch it horribly. ( my luck?) It was super accurate, < 10 seconds off in 6 months or something, just a lucky watch as they're not that accurate really I thought.

I have had a few other watches since then, I had a Garmin, I have another cheaper Citizen right now that's military styled (leather strap), I bought an Apple Watch and returned it, I found it way too uncomfortable. Mostly nothing seems comfortable on my wrist anymore and I kind of gave up. I can't commit to wearing one anymore as I'm always wondering if they are irritating my wrist. Pulling my phone out of my pocket to check time is a little annoying but I type all day for work and play guitar and if a watch is going to irritate anything in my wrist at all it's worth the PITA of pulling the iPhone out. I think the only way I will go back to a watch is if I buy another watch with a really nice bracelet that can be adjusted perfectly, and watches start shrinking... my wrist isn't huge, and the current style of huge watch faces makes them less comfortable for me.

On top of the Apple Watch being uncomfortable for me I found it breathtakingly inelegant and terrible from UI standpoint. I think there is 0 chance Steve Jobs would have ever let any of the Apple Watch models be released the way they are. Everything for him was either "this is f***ing terrible" or "this is totally awesome", and there is no way I believe he'd think they're totally awesome. None of the other smart watches are any better but at least some of the stuff like the Garmin Fenix models have a more traditional watch UI with push buttons.

[buddybikes]

Any clock collectors here? I find old clocks totally facinating. Have an early 1700's tall case setting the pulse for the house next to me. 300 years old and keeps perfect time.

Values of clocks, which can be a significant importance to house decor has dropped like a rock, with exception of course of original big name pieces.

[kingpin75s]

Any clock collectors here? I find old clocks totally facinating. Have an early 1700's tall case setting the pulse for the house next to me. 300 years old and keeps perfect time.

Values of clocks, which can be a significant importance to house decor has dropped like a rock, with exception of course of original big name pieces.

Local member of NAWCC and used to volunteer and help setup the annual auctions here in MN.

My favorite is a black Queen Anne Style Seth Thomas wall clock. Bonus that it is the actual clock displayed in the Tran Duy Ly Seth Thomas Clocks and Movements reference book.

You are very correct as to the drop in value and the state of current auctions reflect the market or lack thereof.

[choke]

Any clock collectors here? I find old clocks totally facinating. Have an early 1700's tall case setting the pulse for the house next to me. 300 years old and keeps perfect time.That's very cool.

The closest thing that I have is a JLC Atmos (IIRC wallyman has one as well). It's a very interesting clock; temperature changes cause a gas filled bellows to expand and contract and that's what winds the mainspring. Mine was made in the 1950s.

http://misc.ciocctoo.com/atmos.jpg

[RFC]

The rise of the micros has really changed my thinking about watches. For example the Deep Blue improved "Seiko SKX"

-- Windable and hackable Seiko movement
-- sapphire crystal
-- 300m WR
-- Helium release valve (always important:rolleyes:)
-- Quality construction

All for $150.

Then look at the Swiss watches. Does it really cost $8k to make a Submariner?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7831/46263777754_7773de7b74_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2duaXjA)IMG_5990r (https://flic.kr/p/2duaXjA) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/46779730652_1fdf141707_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2egLm9d)IMG_6009r (https://flic.kr/p/2egLm9d) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[kingpin75s]

That's very cool.

The closest thing that I have is a JLC Atmos (IIRC wallyman has one as well). It's a very interesting clock; temperature changes cause a gas filled bellows to expand and contract and that's what winds the mainspring. Mine was made in the 1950s.

http://misc.ciocctoo.com/atmos.jpg

Very nice. Atmos clocks are pretty cool.

[NYCfixie]

Nice watch. Looks familiar ;)

All this seems reasonable even if a bit on the optimistic end of pricing IMHO. I understand what the market is offering, however anyone really interested in watches can do better than even 70% of the range above.

If watches are an actual passion, one should first be a member of your local NAWCC chapter. Just like a bike community, this is where you will find connections both for service and opportunities to buy.

My costs have been far less than what everyone has represented here both on acquisitions and on servicing, but I was as connected to the watch community as I am to the bike community.

So much has changed - both good and bad - due to the internet but one thing that seems to stick is the market price of easily attainable watches.

You need to give more context when stating your costs have been lower than what has been stated earlier. Did you buy new or used? Authorized dealer or gray market? Are you a current customer or a new one of the place where you bought it? Do you have Rolex service your watch? An authorized dealer? A non-authorized dealer?

[buddybikes]

Lewis Holland, London member of Clockmakers Guild 1699

1697976673

[NYCfixie]

At this point, I would say sell it and take the cash and put it into mutual funds which will get a better return. At some point that "flaky patina-ed lume" which is what people prize so much will start to flake off and be all over the inside of the case. Then at the next service it will be removed and you will be stuck with an old watch, no lume, and not worth as much.



Here we go again..bought 42 years ago for $645..worth in the high 4 figures now..YOWSER!! NUTZ!!

Yup
Nope
Rolex NY

[choke]

Lewis Holland, London member of Clockmakers Guild 1699
That's sweet. Is the subdial for the seconds?

[RFC]

If only they made mechanical watches designed to exist in the field. Something slim so it doesn't get caught on anything, rugged still, simple and reliable.

Maybe they'd even call them field watches.

Sure, a Rolex Deep Sea Dweller is silly for the backpacking excursion. But a Tudor Ranger? A Hamilton Khaki Field? A Seiko Alpinist?

Ye Gods man, that's what those watches are built for.

This would be my choice for a field watch.

https://www.mkiiwatches.com/paradive

[NYCfixie]

Comparing an $8000 Rolex and a $150 other/whatever is comparing Apples and Oranges but you already know that. Rolex build and finishing is second to none if you consider that so many of them truly last forever they are worth it to many people. My 1994 Explorer II has been beat to $hit over the years and has always worked flawlessly. Just look at OldP's GMT Master which is probably from the 1960s, probably works great, and looks amazing. I just do not believe $150 watches will last the test of time.

With that said, I would agree that micros are creating some really cool stuff. I got in early on this one:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rossdavis/kraken-h2-premium-titanium-watch-without-the-retai

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1737/2729/files/hamtun-h2-kraken_2048x2048.png?v=1542826041


The rise of the micros has really changed my thinking about watches. For example the Deep Blue improved "Seiko SKX"

-- Windable and hackable Seiko movement
-- sapphire crystal
-- 300m WR
-- Helium release valve (always important:rolleyes:)
-- Quality construction

All for $150.

Then look at the Swiss watches. Does it really cost $8k to make a Submariner?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7831/46263777754_7773de7b74_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2duaXjA)IMG_5990r (https://flic.kr/p/2duaXjA) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/46779730652_1fdf141707_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2egLm9d)IMG_6009r (https://flic.kr/p/2egLm9d) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[Ozz]

I love my Seiko autos and my Hamilton hand cranker field watch and my Grand Seiko quartz.
....

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/

[buddybikes]

Nothing prettier than this for your home

1697976678

[NYCfixie]

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/

they can get expensive real fast even if you do the work yourself.

A $200 Seiko SKX can easily reach $600 if you upgrade the bezel insert, bezel, crystal, hands, and movement. Ask me how I know...

[kingpin75s]

So much has changed - both good and bad - due to the internet but one thing that seems to stick is the market price of easily attainable watches.

You need to give more context when stating your costs have been lower than what has been stated earlier. Did you buy new or used? Authorized dealer or gray market? Are you a current customer or a new one of the place where you bought it? Do you have Rolex service your watch? An authorized dealer? A non-authorized dealer?

As examples:
- When I purchased my Explorer II more than 20 years ago, I was given a 2 year no interest payment plan (which was only offered to the best customers at the time) from the NYC authorized dealer because my family was a good customer of the company.
- When I purchased my steel/gold Rolex datejust from a different authorized dealer, I received a significant discount because my wife and I were already very good customers of the NJ location.
- Years later (which was only a few months ago), I purchased a Submariner Date from the Boston location of the same authorized dealer as in NJ so while I did not receive a discount, I only had to wait 6 weeks whereas others have been waiting years for a Submariner.
- I only have my watches serviced at Rolex NYC which is often the same cost as an authorized dealer and sometimes even less expensive. In addition, their turn around time is 4 weeks when most dealers can be several months.

Again, it is often about the context.

Thought I perhaps had inferred enough context with this comment:

"one should first be a member of your local NAWCC chapter. Just like a bike community, this is where you will find connections both for service and opportunities to buy."

As such, I am purchasing used, from a collector and have service done by local people I trust. The head of my local chapter for many years was one of the world's most prominent collectors and sellers of Rolexes etc. The NAWCC has afforded me access to resources that are IMHO better than a dealer experience in every way.

[Ozz]

Any clock collectors here? I find old clocks totally facinating. Have an early 1700's tall case setting the pulse for the house next to me. 300 years old and keeps perfect time.

Values of clocks, which can be a significant importance to house decor has dropped like a rock, with exception of course of original big name pieces.

I have a couple old clocks from turn of the century....I don't recall the makes offhand...

I think one is a Seth Thomas. I bought it from a guy I used to work with. He had a hobby of repairing old clocks and cars. He even taught a class on clock repair at North Seattle Community College. Interesting guy....

The other one belonged to my Mom's great aunt (or something like that).

Old clocks are cool.....

[choke]

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/Those seem a bit on the steep side to me.

I have a modded Seiko diver which was done by one of the pioneers in that field....Bill Yao. It's the one with the green seconds hand.

http://misc.ciocctoo.com/stealth.jpg

[Ozz]

they can get expensive real fast even if you do the work yourself.

A $200 Seiko SKX can easily reach $600 if you upgrade the bezel insert, bezel, crystal, hands, and movement. Ask me how I know...

For sure!

But I figure any well made mechanical watch, that is customized and under $1000 "inexpensive". :cool:

[RFC]

I know. My point is that there is not $7,850 of difference between them. No offense, Rolex are nice watches, but second to none? Branding and marketing are second to none.

Comparing an $8000 Rolex and a $150 other/whatever is comparing Apples and Oranges but you already know that. Rolex build and finishing is second to none if you consider that so many of them truly last forever they are worth it to many people. My 1994 Explorer II has been beet to $hit over the years and has always worked flawlessly. Just look at OldP's GMT Master which is probably from the 1960s, probably works great, and looks amazing. I just do not believe $150 watches will last the test of time.

With that said, I would agree that micros are creating some really cool stuff. I got in early on this one:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rossdavis/kraken-h2-premium-titanium-watch-without-the-retai

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1737/2729/files/hamtun-h2-kraken_2048x2048.png?v=1542826041

[NYCfixie]

You did not imply anything (sorry, married to an English teacher) so there was nothing I could infer.

Purchasing used and having an item serviced by a non-authorized service person is a choice and is often less expensive but can also be more expensive (if the non-authorized person breaks something or uses non standard parts or does not even replace parts that need replacing).

Also, local markets have different prices for service. While you might pay $500 for a Rolex service in MN, that same service might cost $600 in NYC. And, until someone defines the word "service" what you get an an authorized service center and at a non-authorized service center might be very different; not necessarily bad, just different so it would be difficult to compare costs without first defining what service actually means.

Thought I perhaps had inferred enough context with this comment:

"one should first be a member of your local NAWCC chapter. Just like a bike community, this is where you will find connections both for service and opportunities to buy."

As such, I am purchasing used, from a collector and have service done by local people I trust. The head of my local chapter for many years was one of the world's most prominent collectors and sellers of Rolexes etc. The NAWCC has afforded me access to resources that are IMHO better than a dealer experience in every way.

[RFC]

I am intrigued by the guys who "mod" the Seiko divers....these seem very unique and personalized.....and not too expensive!

https://www.artificehoroworks.com/

Yes, they are interesting. Check out the many mods on ebay.

SKX modding would be fun. I don't need another hobby.

Check out this Seiko Soxa.

http://seikodiver.blogspot.com/2010/04/seiko-automatic-diver-6309-7040-orange.html

[RFC]

I'm sitting around waiting for contractors to show up. Thus my forum activity.

Here is a good one from Basel. Seiko has released a new Seiko 6105 and it only costs $4,250. I think the originals were $75.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/seiko-1970-divers-limited-edition-sla033-introducing

[NYCfixie]

I know. My point is that there is not $7,850 of difference between them. No offense, Rolex are nice watches, but second to none? Branding and marketing are second to none.

I'll agree to disagree. While this difference may not be worth it to you, that is your opinion and not a fact. Just as another person might find it ludicrous to spend $150 on the watches you posted when they can get an equally good Timex for $40. What would you say to them? How would you explain that your watches are actually worth $150 and not the same as their $40 Timex?

Why is a $795-$2395 Lynskey not as good as a $4500 Seven (frame cost only)? They are both titanium, they are both welded by professionals, and you can use either one for a nice bike ride. (I have owned both which is why I used them as examples).

My point is that perceived value can be more or less than actual retail price and extrapolated to almost any product, as such, one person's opinion on perceived value should not be stated as fact.

[RFC]

I agree.

I'll agree to disagree. While this difference may not be worth it to you, that is your opinion and not a fact. Just as another person might find it ludicrous to spend $150 on the watches you posted when they can get an equally good Timex for $40. What would you say to them? How would you explain that your watches are actually worth $150 and not the same as their $40 Timex?

Why is a $795-$2395 Lynskey not as good as a $4500 Seven (frame cost only)? They are both titanium, they are both welded by professionals, and you can use either one for a nice bike ride. (I have owned both which is why I used them as examples).

My point is that perceived value can be more or less than actual retail price and extrapolated to almost any product, as such, one person's opinion on perceived value should not be stated as fact.

[NYCfixie]

I'm sitting around waiting for contractors to show up. Thus my forum activity.

Here is a good one from Basel. Seiko has released a new Seiko 6105 and it only costs $4,250. I think the originals were $75.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/seiko-1970-divers-limited-edition-sla033-introducing

I am home taking care of my wife after foot surgery, hence my recent forum activity....:)

Again, you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Materials and build quality alone have changed drastically in 50 years. With that said, there has been much discussion on the internet about "Grand Seiko" wanting to compete with the Swiss brands in the USA market more than before and as a result the regular "Seiko" watch prices have been increasing without any real change to the models.

One way to get there is to create limited editions like the one you mentioned and charge a premium price. And even the Hodinkee article you link suggest that maybe Seiko and Grand Seiko are stretching prices too far and too fast.

A new era for Grand Seiko opens with the establishment of Grand Seiko Corporation of America (https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/news/pressrelease/20181002)

[FlashUNC]

I'm sitting around waiting for contractors to show up. Thus my forum activity.

Here is a good one from Basel. Seiko has released a new Seiko 6105 and it only costs $4,250. I think the originals were $75.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/seiko-1970-divers-limited-edition-sla033-introducing

I prefer the SLA 017 myself for their reissues. I wonder if they're also going to go down the route they did with the 6159 reinterpretation (the SPB077/079/083). I picked up one a couple months back and love it so far.

[RFC]

Yep, that's exactly what Seiko is doing.

I am home taking care of my wife after foot surgery, hence my recent forum activity....:)

Again, you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Materials and build quality alone have changed drastically in 50 years. With that said, there has been much discussion on the internet about "Grand Seiko" wanting to compete with the Swiss brands in the USA market more than before and as a result the regular "Seiko" watch prices have been increasing without any real change to the models.

One way to get there is to create limited editions like the one you mentioned and charge a premium price. And even the Hodinkee article you link suggest that maybe Seiko and Grand Seiko are stretching prices too far and too fast.

A new era for Grand Seiko opens with the establishment of Grand Seiko Corporation of America (https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/news/pressrelease/20181002)

[choke]

With that said, there has been much discussion on the internet about "Grand Seiko" wanting to compete with the Swiss brands in the USA market more than before <snip> And even the Hodinkee article you link suggest that maybe Seiko and Grand Seiko are stretching prices too far and too fast.As someone who has owned a number of Swiss watches - including 2 Rolex - and currently owns 2 Grand Seiko, IMO they can easily compete. I think that the GS fit and finish is at least as good as and in many cases better than a lot of brands that have much more 'status', for lack of a better word. If they fail to compete with the Swiss brands IMO it will only be because a lot of people will focus on the word 'Seiko' and not give them a good look.

[kingpin75s]

You did not imply anything (sorry, married to an English teacher) so there was nothing I could infer.

Purchasing used and having an item serviced by a non-authorized service person is a choice and is often less expensive but can also be more expensive (if the non-authorized person breaks something or uses non standard parts or does not even replace parts that need replacing).

Also, local markets have different prices for service. While you might pay $500 for a Rolex service in MN, that same service might cost $600 in NYC. And, until someone defines the word "service" what you get an an authorized service center and at a non-authorized service center might be very different; not necessarily bad, just different so it would be difficult to compare costs without first defining what service actually means.

Depends on how you vet things and what resources you have available to you. For some the risk could be more. For me, my community represents less risk than a dealership based on my long term experience.

Despite the insurance that a dealer may provide, I trust the local watch and clock community to provide me with guidance and resources far more than I trust just any dealer. A dealer always has financial incentive in the equation, my friends and peers do not.

That said, I do have an exceptional local community to lean on.

[NYCfixie]

As someone who has owned a number of Swiss watches - including 2 Rolex - and currently owns 2 Grand Seiko, IMO they can easily compete. I think that the GS fit and finish is at least as good as and in many cases better than a lot of brands that have much more 'status', for lack of a better word. If they fail to compete with the Swiss brands IMO it will only be because a lot of people will focus on the word 'Seiko' and not give them a good look.

Agreed, many will tell you that GS has better fit and finish than Rolex but currently cannot compete due to lack of brand recognition as 99 out of 100 average people would not know the difference between Seiko and Grand Seiko so they would not pay the additional cost and do not perceive the added value of "Grand".

For me, I have not yet found a GS that I like but I also have never found a Omega that interests me (and I am not wealthy enough to purchase an AP (https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/) or a Patek (https://www.patek.com/en/home)). While I do not buy and sell watches (only buy them to wear now and then be gifted to relatives when they get older), many people who do buy/sell are worried about resale value and GS simply do not (yet) hold their value. Most Omegas do not hold their value either except for a few vintage and/or limited edition pieces. Fair or not, (most) Rolex watches do hold their value. Again, until you get into AP, Patek, and similar watches, nothing holds its value like a Rolex.

[RFC]

You are right. Rolex do hold their value due to quality, branding and the fact that Rolex strictly regulates dealer prices and limits discounts on new watches to 10 - 15%. New Omegas (I've had quite a few) can usually be had at a 30 - 40% discount off of MSRP. So that is where the used price starts.

BTW, I am intrigued by the Seiko spring drive. A very interesting technology, although it sometimes impresses me as trying to get more out of antiquated technology, like strapping a jet engine on an old pickup truck. Still interesting, though.

Agreed, many will tell you that GS has better fit and finish than Rolex but currently cannot compete due to lack of brand recognition as 99 out of 100 average people would not know the difference between Seiko and Grand Seiko so they would not pay the additional cost and do not perceive the added value of "Grand".

For me, I have not yet found a GS that I like but I also have never found a Omega that interests me (and I am not wealthy enough to purchase an AP (https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/) or a Patek (https://www.patek.com/en/home)). While I do not buy and sell watches (only buy them to wear now and then be gifted to relatives when they get older), many people who do buy/sell are worried about resale value and GS simply do not (yet) hold their value. Most Omegas do not hold their value either except for a few vintage and/or limited edition pieces. Fair or not, (most) Rolex watches do hold their value. Again, until you get into AP, Patek, and similar watches, nothing holds its value like a Rolex.

[NYCfixie]

One for any/every occasion...
1994 Explorer II Polar Dial 40mm
2009 DateJust Steel/Gold 36mm
2018 Submariner Date ceramic bezel 40mm

https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachments/f39/110845d1548435722-timepieces-img_1064-jpg


And one of these....
35th Anniversary g-shock
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1805/0633/products/casio-g-shock-35th-anniversary-mens-black-gold-watch-dw5035d-1b_1024x1024.jpg?v=1535239960


And one of these moded and on the way....
Seiko SKX011J
https://cdn3.volusion.com/htlyr.vuqkj/v/vspfiles/photos/SKX011J1-2T.jpg?1409831860

And one of these on the way after the kickstarter is over...
Hamtun H2 Kraken Titanium
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1737/2729/files/white-dial-front-sm_grande.png?v=1547657792

[RFC]

How are you modding the 011?

One for any/every occasion...
1994 Explorer II Polar Dial 40mm
2009 DateJust Steel/Gold 36mm
2018 Submariner Date ceramic bezel 40mm

https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/attachments/f39/110845d1548435722-timepieces-img_1064-jpg


And one of these....
35th Anniversary g-shock
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1805/0633/products/casio-g-shock-35th-anniversary-mens-black-gold-watch-dw5035d-1b_1024x1024.jpg?v=1535239960


And one of these moded and on the way....
Seiko SKX011J
https://cdn3.volusion.com/htlyr.vuqkj/v/vspfiles/photos/SKX011J1-2T.jpg?1409831860

And one of these on the way after the kickstarter is over...
Hamtun H2 Kraken Titanium
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1737/2729/files/white-dial-front-sm_grande.png?v=1547657792

[NYCfixie]

...

BTW, I am intrigued by the Seiko spring drive. A very interesting technology, although it sometimes impresses me as trying to get more out of antiquated technology, like strapping a jet engine on an old pickup truck. Still interesting, though.

Technically speaking, Seiko spring drive (https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/about/movement/springdrive) is an amazing technology that never caught on but congrats to Seiko/Grand Seiko for keeping it alive. If GS created a spring drive watch that interested me, I would not hesitate to purchase it. I just think many of there dress watches are too fussy and the divers are not anything unique.

[NYCfixie]

How are you modding the 011?

Not too much....

- Double domed AR coated sapphire crystal (to replace mineral glass stock one)
- Lumed black Submariner style bezel insert with white lettering (to replace the non-lumed gold lettered stock one which I think looks bad with the orange dial)
- Seiko OEM silicone strap (to replace the very uncomfortable stock rubber one)

As I referenced earlier, that is how you start with a $225 Seiko SKX and take it up a notch (apologies to Emeril (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvazQUYG1kE)) to a $475 Seiko SKX.

Pre-moded pic (hands and lettering look yellow in picture but they are actually gold)
https://cdn.creationwatches.com/products/images/large/SKX011J1_LRG.jpg

[RFC]

Agreed, although I do kind of like the spring drive Tuna, but then I generally like the Tunas and have two.

Technically speaking, Seiko spring drive (https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/about/movement/springdrive) is an amazing technology that never caught on but congrats to Seiko/Grand Seiko for keeping it alive. If GS created a spring drive watch that interested me, I would not hesitate to purchase it. I just think many of there dress watches are too fussy and the divers are not anything unique.

[MattTuck]

Agreed, many will tell you that GS has better fit and finish than Rolex but currently cannot compete due to lack of brand recognition as 99 out of 100 average people would not know the difference between Seiko and Grand Seiko so they would not pay the additional cost and do not perceive the added value of "Grand".

For me, I have not yet found a GS that I like but I also have never found a Omega that interests me (and I am not wealthy enough to purchase an AP (https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/) or a Patek (https://www.patek.com/en/home)). While I do not buy and sell watches (only buy them to wear now and then be gifted to relatives when they get older), many people who do buy/sell are worried about resale value and GS simply do not (yet) hold their value. Most Omegas do not hold their value either except for a few vintage and/or limited edition pieces. Fair or not, (most) Rolex watches do hold their value. Again, until you get into AP, Patek, and similar watches, nothing holds its value like a Rolex.

Rolex is producing around 1 million watches per year. Ferrari makes less than 10,000 cars. It is a puzzle to me that these watches hold their value, when they are not really that scarce. Rolex has done a masterful job of positioning their brand as holding value, but the last 30 or so years have been pretty fantastic for rich people who buy luxury goods. So, I'm not so sure they hold their value better than other assets. If we see a real downturn in the markets, I'd expect watches to take a big hit, especially if that backstop of "they hold their value" gets undermined in a big way and leads to more selling.

The only thing they have going for them is that they are a nice physical hedge against inflation, and you can wear one as you fly to another country, so they are kind of a nice way to move money. They also adhere to the definition of truly owning something: only what you can carry at a dead run. :banana:

[RFC]

And since we're killing time, here is a photo of my new Turtle.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7905/32456325677_080acd2ac2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Rs49S2)IMG_6087r (https://flic.kr/p/Rs49S2) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[AngryScientist]

Rolex is producing around 1 million watches per year. Ferrari makes less than 10,000 cars. It is a puzzle to me that these watches hold their value, when they are not really that scarce. Rolex has done a masterful job of positioning their brand as holding value, but the last 30 or so years have been pretty fantastic for rich people who buy luxury goods. So, I'm not so sure they hold their value better than other assets. If we see a real downturn in the markets, I'd expect watches to take a big hit, especially if that backstop of "they hold their value" gets undermined in a big way and leads to more selling.

The only thing they have going for them is that they are a nice physical hedge against inflation, and you can wear one as you fly to another country, so they are kind of a nice way to move money. They also adhere to the definition of truly owning something: only what you can carry at a dead run. :banana:

a little easier to maintain than a farrari too, i might add:)

[NYCfixie]

How many people can afford a Ferrari?
How many more people can afford a Rolex?
(and how many more can stretch to get one?)

There is a larger market for Rolex because there are more people who can afford them. Also, Ferrari can produce many more cars but they choose not to do it; do you really think there are only 10,000 people who can afford to purchase a Ferrari? Same for Rolex, Rolex constrains steel sports watches - on purpose - to create a wait list.

And, similar to Rolex, not all Ferrari cars hold their value. Only a choice few of them do (Testarossa versus 250GTB SWB).

Did you know that Rolex (and Tudor) have always been owned by a charitable trust so they do not actually need to show a profit?

Any luxury item will drop in value during a downturn; Art is another great example of an investment that will drop in price and/or take a hit on perceived value in a downturn.

I would choose diamonds or gold bars as a hedge and/or mobile currency before a Rolex.

Rolex is producing around 1 million watches per year. Ferrari makes less than 10,000 cars. It is a puzzle to me that these watches hold their value, when they are not really that scarce. Rolex has done a masterful job of positioning their brand as holding value, but the last 30 or so years have been pretty fantastic for rich people who buy luxury goods. So, I'm not so sure they hold their value better than other assets. If we see a real downturn in the markets, I'd expect watches to take a big hit, especially if that backstop of "they hold their value" gets undermined in a big way and leads to more selling.

The only thing they have going for them is that they are a nice physical hedge against inflation, and you can wear one as you fly to another country, so they are kind of a nice way to move money. They also adhere to the definition of truly owning something: only what you can carry at a dead run. :banana:

[NYCfixie]

I really like that one in the middle. Is it spring drive?

And since we're killing time, here is a photo of my new Turtle.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7905/32456325677_080acd2ac2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Rs49S2)IMG_6087r (https://flic.kr/p/Rs49S2) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161536771@N04/), on Flickr

[gdw]

The only thing they have going for them is that they are a nice physical hedge against inflation, and you can wear one as you fly to another country, so they are kind of a nice way to move money. They also adhere to the definition of truly owning something: only what you can carry at a dead run. :banana:

When I was in the military folks rationalized their purchase of a Rolex by claiming that if the s**t hit the fan it could be sold anywhere in the world for enough cash to purchase a one way ticket back to the states.

[RFC]

I really like that one in the middle. Is it spring drive?

LOL! No, an ancient technology. It's a hatchling Desert Tortoise. Because they are a threatened species, you can only legally own one by adopting it from a state facility. Thus the number.

[ScottW]

For about 10 years my daily wearer was an Orient Mako ($110?), before that I wore a Poljot aviator manual wind for a couple years before the crown and/or case tube threading wore out. I've debated getting that fixed one day, but OTOH the implementation of a threaded crown on a daily manual-wind was possibly not brilliant engineering.
After getting a "real job" I acquired a few Omegas I'd been wanting for a long time... blue Bond Seamaster, Dynamic III non-chrono, and a Great White Seamaster GMT which I have been wearing for most of the past year. I think I have a thing for white dials and red hands. I dig the Rolex Explorer II GMT with the polar white dial and red GMT hand, might pick one up one of these years if prices don't go absurd.

Once I started caring enough about the accuracy of my mechanicals to buy a Timegrapher and get hands-on, I quickly found that the movements in my Omegas (mine are all ETA-based AFAIK) are superior to my cheaper Seiko-based ones (e.g. 7S26) in terms of positional variation and fine adjustability. Which isn't to say that the Orients and Seikos aren't accurate (they tend to be pretty good from the factory) but jeebus does it take some luck and witchcraft to get those regulated properly if they ever take a hard knock.

I own two quartz watches, a 1980s Heuer diver that my father gave me after he bought himself a Submariner, and a G-Shock Rangeman. That Casio is pretty sweet, solar rechargeable battery, Atomic clock reception, has the temp/alti/baro/compass which I rarely use, and it will even tell you the lat/long-based sunrise and sunset times which has been useful in certain circumstances. It's the one I wear when hiking or camping or hunting.
That's about as electronically sophisticated as I'm willing to get in a watch. I have zero desire to have my email displayed on my wrist.

Clocks... I have only one that would be of any interest in this crowd. A Herschede hall clock that has been in the family. Serial number dates to 1942-ish according to the internet, but the newspaper wrapped around the lead inside the weights references post-war stuff, roughly Christmas 1945. Given that Herschede produced other things during WWII, it's possible the movement is pre-war and the clock wasn't assembled and sold until after the war (?). I should find some Herschede experts and ask. The pendulum rod is made of an alloy with low thermal expansion coefficient and I've gotten it to keep time within 0.5 seconds per week. My quartz G-shock will drift way more than that if it goes a while without receiving the atomic clock signal.

[choke]

I am intrigued by the Seiko spring drive. A very interesting technology, although it sometimes impresses me as trying to get more out of antiquated technology, like strapping a jet engine on an old pickup truck. Still interesting, though.Spring Drive is awesome. The seconds hand is so fluid and unlike anything else, it's mesmerizing to watch.

[rockdude]

I am an executor of an Estate and have two Rolex's to sale. One is a Woman's justdate President 18k gold. the other is this. What is the best way to sell these items. 1697976727

[joosttx]

I am an executor of an Estate and have two Rolex's to sale. One is a Woman's justdate President 18k gold. the other is this. What is the best way to sell these items. 1697976727

That one is so bad it’s good

[mtechnica]

That one is so bad it’s good

+1 I can't believe my eyes

[Louis]

But how well does it keep time? ;)