I got scammed. What to do?

[Lewis Moon]

I'm a big idiot dupe. I'm going to get that out of the way first. All the signs of a bad deal were there but the good price on a bike I wanted addled my brain.

About a month back I ran across a Ridley X-Fire on eBay in my size. I tried to do the "buy it now" but eBay would not let me use my credit card to complete the purchase. Weird. I asked the seller what was up and he couldn't resolve it. After a couple more messages he snuck me his phone number and I contacted him there by text. I wound up sending him a payment PayPal F&F which, PayPal gulag-ed for 21 days and charged him eBay fees on, because they correctly surmised that it was an eBay deal taken private. So, I wait, all the while commiserating with the guy about how long it's taking. The payment clears and he says he's going to ship the bike...but doesn't because of bad weather in Spokane. I looked it up and yep, really bad weather. Weather clears up and he says the bike shipped but he left the receipt with the tracking number in his wife's car. Now, radio silence and no bike or tracking number. It's been about three times as long as it should have taken to be shipped and he is not returning texts. I'm pretty sure I've been scammed. And yes, I'm a dope.
I'm embarrassed about what an idiot I was but I want to go after the guy. I have his phone number, email, PayPal address and I looked him up on the internet before the sale and it appears that the ID he gave is that of a chef in the Spokane area with LinkedIn account, etc.
I'd like to do everything possible to get him charged with a crime. Any suggestions other than filing a police report?

[OtayBW]

I can give a lot of plausible deniability for almost everything except 'could not ship because of bad weather' - W.T.Actual.F? That's just weird.
Hey - good luck to you. We've all done stupid schlitz before. If you can, let it go and move on....:cool:

[rallizes]

well that sucks

what's his eBay name and real name

[echappist]

the ebay account may actually have been compromised as well. who knows

never do friends-and-family for transaction with people whom you don't know

one thing confusing about the details, the OP states that the payment cleared. Which payment cleared? The original or the one assessed paypal fees? There may yet be a recourse for the latter

[buddybikes]

This is where PayPal really stinks, no recourse on private sale. Happened to me years ago on a laptop, I knew where he was, what he did, and kept after it, 4 years later got most of my cash back. Wage a paypal complaint, they will attach against his account and money could come back if money goes into his account. Call PayPal

https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/customer-disputes-claims-chargebacks-bank-reversals

[clyde the point]

Is not the first call to the credit card company and plead your case? If you've been with them for awhile and are current with payment, they might step up and assist.

[Lewis Moon]

well that sucks

what's his eBay name and real name
I'm a bit worried that the name is from a stolen ID. I'd hate to screw someone up who didn't have anything to do with it. The eBay handle is definitely tied to the scammer: jo182228

[Lewis Moon]

the ebay account may actually have been compromised as well. who knows

never do friends-and-family for transaction with people whom you don't know

one thing confusing about the details, the OP states that the payment cleared. Which payment cleared? The original or the one assessed paypal fees? There may yet be a recourse for the latter
Yep, I was stupid. The PayPal payment was flagged by PayPal for being an ebay transaction taken private and they charged fees. That was the only payment.

[rePhil]

My Ebay philosophy lately is to never spend more than I am willing to write off. Saying that, I had a similiar situation buying a frame and fork. My guy actually had his phone number in the ad, and wanted to take the deal private. We texted back and forth, and he had all the right answers. He even negotiated fairly on a wheel set. I asked for specific photos which he was quick to respond with, so I took a chance. He replied with a photo of the FedEx label. In the end I got a very good deal but was curious as to why someone would go through the trouble to avoid paying fees.

[vincenz]

Yep, I was stupid. The PayPal payment was flagged by PayPal for being an ebay transaction taken private and they charged fees. That was the only payment.



You could have some recourse there if eBay is taking commission. I would call paypal and eBay and explain everything. Document everything. Also call your cc if you paid by cc. I hope you didn’t use debit. Best of luck.

[Lewis Moon]

You could have some recourse there if eBay is taking commission. I would call paypal and eBay and explain everything. Document everything. Also call your cc if you paid by cc. I hope you didn’t use debit. Best of luck.

Yep, all these are on the list. Thanks.

[Spaghetti Legs]

About 10 years ago I bought a bike off EBay Colnago E1 from a guy, I think in hindsight, was stocking up his bank account by selling off his folded espoir team’s gear (he was a manager). He went dark for about 2 weeks until I tracked down his work contact info and started pinging him there. He gave me a “bad weather in Aspen and couldn’t email” excuse. Got the bike after that.

[mtechnica]

I used to live in Spokane, I wonder if I know who it is because I know a chef / semi-infamous cyclist.

[weisan]

I used to live in Spokane, I wonder if I know who it is because I know a chef / semi-infamous cyclist.

The plot thickens...

[mtechnica]

The plot thickens...

I don’t know, the guy I’m talking about is a good dude besides the fact that he’s against wearing helmets, and I seriously doubt he would scam someone.

[echappist]

Yep, all these are on the list. Thanks.

hopefully it works out, especially as ebay/paypal took a cut of the transaction

[woolly]

Would this not be a Chargeback claim instead? I know the OP regretfully submitted the initial payment as F&F, but PayPal later acknowledged it as a sale, no? So wouldn't this be plausible as an Item Not Received claim? So complicated. . .

This is where PayPal really stinks, no recourse on private sale. Happened to me years ago on a laptop, I knew where he was, what he did, and kept after it, 4 years later got most of my cash back. Wage a paypal complaint, they will attach against his account and money could come back if money goes into his account. Call PayPal

https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/customer-disputes-claims-chargebacks-bank-reversals

[echappist]

Would this not be a Chargeback claim instead? I know the OP regretfully submitted the initial payment as F&F, but PayPal later acknowledged it as a sale, no? So wouldn't this be plausible as an Item Not Received claim? So complicated. . .

you wanna bet that Paypal will try to screw over the OP by claiming something about original intent? wouldn't surprise me that Paypal wants to have its cake and eat it

[woolly]

you wanna bet that Paypal will try to screw over the OP by claiming something about original intent? wouldn't surprise me that Paypal wants to have its cake and eat it

Alas, I will not take that bet. You're probably right, even if it sounds right & logical, doesn't mean it will be the actual outcome.

[merckxman]

Sorry about your problem. Asking: does having a phone number have any value anymore...with the burner phones being so available?

[John H.]

What was the amount that you sent via Paypal F&F?
Was is less than the Buy It Now plus shipping?

[spinarelli]

I won a bike on ebay and I had the same issues trying to pay for the bike. ebay/paypal/cc kept refusing the transaction due to the high amount. After many phone calls with all 3 eventually the payment went through. It took 48 to 72 hours, which were very frustrating. Since paypal took the ebay fees then it is not a F&F paypal transaction anymore.

[dbnm]

https://www.spokanecounty.org/1080/Sheriff

Call the cops. Let them figure it out.

Advise the seller he has 24 hours to respond.

[DCilliams]

While you’re working the eBay/PayPal refund angle, I’d try to bluff this guy into some kind of refund, dangling a few of his personal details you know and getting authorities involved...in other words, this scam may be more trouble than it’s worth.

Ps- what was his rating on eBay? Any buyer feedback?. I’d also see if bike photos are listed on local or regional Craigslist or Facebook marketplace.

[oldpotatoe]

you wanna bet that Paypal will try to screw over the OP by claiming something about original intent? wouldn't surprise me that Paypal wants to have its cake and eat it

That may be true but that is 'let's shoot the messenger', 101..I'm not a paypal fan boy but let's remember the 'seller' is the one who screwed Lewis, not paypal...:confused:

[oldpotatoe]

https://www.spokanecounty.org/1080/Sheriff

Call the cops. Let them figure it out.

Advise the seller he has 24 hours to respond.

Well, maybe..I had a fraudulent charge on my CC in some wee berg in GA...had ALL the info including a link to a photo processing place that Target used(Don't EVER order prints be sent to you...), same town. Had a name, phone, of the 'relative' of the photo place..who bought the $1200 tires...the LEO in that town? Even tho I got a 'detective'...they really just gave me the 'thousand mile stare', over the phone..luckily my (USAA) credit card company took care of me..
So..YMMV and all that.

If I had his phone, I'd have an attorney give him a call..that sometimes works wonders..

[Ralph]

I'm following to see how this works out. It seems you were scamming PP with a fraudulent F&F payment, and the seller was scamming you. Might be difficult to get sympathy from PP because their records won't initially show a transaction. Maybe E bay can help, but doubt it because the sale was done away from them, so no E bay protection. Good luck. Know you are frustrated.
Not trying to be mean or "pile on". Wanting to learn myself about how things can go wrong.
Maybe it will just show up one day.

[seanile]

It seems you were scamming PP with a fraudulent F&F payment


Many people misunderstand this. You are not scamming paypal by using friends and family with people who arent friends and family.
When you use their fee-based service, you are paying for protection.
When you use friends and family, you waive the right to use the protection.
The names they use are their recommendations of who should be on the other end of the transaction, not requirements.

[cinema]

If the phone number is real just PM me and I'll get you all of his info.

[echappist]

That may be true but that is 'let's shoot the messenger', 101..I'm not a paypal fan boy but let's remember the 'seller' is the one who screwed Lewis, not paypal...:confused:

I know, but i'm saying that Paypal has a half decent chance of indulging in cakeism, as in, taking in the fees (which includes a portion set aside for fraud protection) while refusing to pay out for a claim when fraud occurs.

In the current case, Paypal appears to have rejected the original F+F payment and wanted an actual payment, with a portion going to Paypal (which would mean that the OP would get fraud protection, as Paypal took its cut), but I have a suspicion that Paypal will try to weasel its way out.

Of course the scammer is despicable, but I don't trust Paypal to do the right thing here

[weaponsgrade]

I hope it works out. I once bought a wheelset on CL that required shipping. I spoke to the seller on the phone and everything seemed legit. I sent him a check and proceeded to spend the next month calling him and checking the post office. The guy kept me going for weeks because he would always take my call. He finally slipped up on a detail. I had a lawyer friend send a very strongly worded letter threatening legal action and a few days later he sent me my money back.

[djdj]

Many people misunderstand this. You are not scamming paypal by using friends and family with people who arent friends and family.
When you use their fee-based service, you are paying for protection.
When you use friends and family, you waive the right to use the protection.
The names they use are their recommendations of who should be on the other end of the transaction, not requirements.

From the PayPal user agreement:

You must not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods or services.

[oldpotatoe]

I know, but i'm saying that Paypal has a half decent chance of indulging in cakeism, as in, taking in the fees (which includes a portion set aside for fraud protection) while refusing to pay out for a claim when fraud occurs.

In the current case, Paypal appears to have rejected the original F+F payment and wanted an actual payment, with a portion going to Paypal (which would mean that the OP would get fraud protection, as Paypal took its cut), but I have a suspicion that Paypal will try to weasel its way out.

Of course the scammer is despicable, but I don't trust Paypal to do the right thing here

Again, not a paypal fan boy but paypal are essentially spectators, the 'plumbing' used for 2 separate parties doing a 'deal', using them. Paypal came to this transaction, saw it as not proper, and took action.
I doubt that PP has nefarious motives, are 'refusing' and being 'weasels', and knowingly doing the 'wrong' thing..so they can get their 3% of this wee deal.

Ya don't like PP, 10-4..'May' not like ebay..gotcha..but they are the best game in town at the moment..if you have a swimming pool of $100 bills..please create a better and 'more fair' system..and don't be surprised if there are bumps and 'some' will think you are being a 'weasel'...

[Bentley]

Again, not a paypal fan boy but paypal are essentially spectators, the 'plumbing' used for 2 separate parties doing a 'deal', using them. Paypal came to this transaction, saw it as not proper, and took action.
I doubt that PP has nefarious motives, are 'refusing' and being 'weasels', and knowingly doing the 'wrong' thing..so they can get their 3% of this wee deal.

Ya don't like PP, 10-4..'May' not like ebay..gotcha..but they are the best game in town at the moment..if you have a swimming pool of $100 bills..please create a better and 'more fair' system..and don't be surprised if there are bumps and 'some' will think you are being a 'weasel'...

I tend to agree with Oldpotatoe here. I don’t use F&F for transactions here because in general I don’t know the folks I am dealing with and I am happy to pay the fee to protect the transaction.

While folks don’t feel it’s a scam, very harsh term, it is a violation of the policy and so I question why folks question why PP is not doing the right thing. Also EBay and PP are independent entities, not like before when EBay owned PP so that relationship is transactional.

Overall, it’s realy a case of trying to get a “deal” and taking a risk, typically I won’t deal with EBay sellers that want a F&F transaction, too much risk for a little benefit.

That said, I hope this guy gets caught, you executed the transaction as agreed, he/she should do the same.

Best

Ray