OT: Call me crazy : Old Car

[redir]

Well my wife calls me crazy anyway.

Ten years ago I really wanted one of these but a friend of mine sold me his '94 E420 at a steal of a price. It's been a great car for 10 years but she's done. I'd probably put money into it if it was not for the rust.

I know now that when people say, "oh man an old Mercedes is nothing but a money pit and the parts are expensive and blah blah..." that it's simply not true. The only time I have taken my 420 to the mechanic was for it's annual inspection. I've replaced the water pump, brake lines, blower motor, brakes, hoses, power steering.... and much more and it really was not terribly complicated and the parts are not terribly expensive. Take it to the MB shop and sure you will pay premium.

But anyway... The car that I want to 'upgrade to? An 1983 300SD Turbo Diesel with 130k miles on it, fully restored, new paint, rebuilt engine and so on.

I guess I am posting here for moral support... Help me, please :D

But if anyone has any experience with these cars I'd love to hear it.

Aint she a beauty?

https://images.craigslist.org/00808_eBwOhLUS05f_1200x900.jpg

[Tickdoc]

Old cars rule. I am in total support here. never had a diesel, but I can’t imagine a car that would run harder or longer.

[peanutgallery]

Do it, I'm an enabler when it comes to cars

Look into some 24" wagon wheels for that thing:)

[KarlC]

I'm a classic Mercedes fan, and have had a few W124 500E / E500 in the past. With your 420 you are going from more of a sport sedan to now a long haul cruiser.

It looks nice, but I'm supersized a Mercedes Turbo Diesel with 130k miles on it, has a rebuilt engine ? These are considered 1,000,000 mile motors.

Did you change the wheels ?

.

[fmradio516]

Thats nice. My grandpa had an 87 300TD Wagon that had around 380k on it. It was the most reliable car in the family, but unfortunately, the rust took it out of commission and it was no longer safe to drive.

[Mikej]

Yeah, guy at work has one -83 or 84? cant afford a haircut because its so off the rails expensive to fix. Last problem - brakes. Have you heard about early Merc brakes?

[redir]

I'm a classic Mercedes fan, and have had a few W124 500E / E500 in the past. With your 420 you are going from more of a sport sedan to now a long haul cruiser.

It looks nice, but I'm supersized a Mercedes Turbo Diesel with 130k miles on it, has a rebuilt engine ? These are considered 1,000,000 mile motors.

Did you change the wheels ?

.

I was thinking the same thing. From his ad he states, "Machined cylinder head with new valve train"

I know these cars had timing chain problems I believe. That will be one of my first questions to the seller.

Yeah, guy at work has one -83 or 84? cant afford a haircut because its so off the rails expensive to fix. Last problem - brakes. Have you heard about early Merc brakes?

I have not, what are the brake problems in these models?

[Mikej]

I was thinking the same thing. From his ad he states, "Machined cylinder head with new valve train"

I know these cars had timing chain problems I believe. That will be one of my first questions to the seller.



I have not, what are the brake problems in these models?

S-pensive

[Gsinill]

The W126 is the best car ever built IMHO.
My first car after moving to the US in '97 was an '83 300SD.
Bought it with 475K miles from a pastor who drove every day 220 miles to his parish.
He only sold it because his wife was worried that it would break down one day.
I was stupid enough to sell it after the A/C started leaking. Big mistake.

Got another W126 ('86 300SDL) back in 2008 which has been my daily driver since.
Bought it unseen from a used car dealer on Long Island with 130K miles on the clock.
Use it mostly to commute to the airport getting 26 mpg on the highway.
Bulletproof, classy, comfortable and indestructible...

UNCONDITIONAL BUY IT from me, congrats!

Here's mine (crappy pic):
https://i.postimg.cc/tJfqc7vb/SBaby.png

And yes, you need to get rid of the rims. The original 15 hole ones are not hard to find and cheap.

[dgauthier]

Those old Mercedes' rock.

When my wife and I decided to get rid of her 1998 C280 a couple of years ago, the Mercedes dealer in our area seemd to try to talk her out of a new Mercedes. "You can buy a new one, but the cars we have now aren't like what you have," they said, "That's almost a handmade car!"

We tried independent mechanics, but I never was very excited about the job they did. The Mercedes dealer always did the work exactly right, and the prices only seemed to be about 20% more than independent quotes. And we kept it cherry.

We'd bring my wife's car in for service and she'd get a C class loaner for the day. I'd take the loaner for a spin around the block. During the years 2007-2012, my wife's '98 with 100,000 miles on it was tighter, nicer, and more solid than the new loaner with 700 miles on it! The loaners I tried in recent years compared much more favorably, but by that time my wife's '98 had 160,000 miles.

Our '98 C class doesn't even compare to what you have. If you like an older car, you can't go wrong with that E420. It'll do 500,000 miles easy.

[redir]

I knew I could count on you guys :D

[fmradio516]

Yeah after driving my grandpas 300TD a ton and having my E30 for 15 years, all new cars feel the same to me... bleh.

Took a trip to Florida two weeks ago and had a new MB GLA250 rental car. Boy that was a disappointment. Looks cool, but drives like crap and everything felt really cheap. granted its a rental car, so base model, but still. The display for the radio in the center of the dash isnt integrated at all. Its a tablet that is mounted to the dashboard. I didnt think it was factory, but it was. So weird!

[joosttx]

Big Mercedes fan, although I don’t and probably will never own one. I did buy my Dad a 560 S-class about 4 years old. It an awesome car. I mean awesome. Although the low profile tires wear out quickly and cost a lot to replace (I hear about that more than I like to).

Eric Hjeltness who makes beautiful saddle and panniers bags other gig :) is restoration of classic focusing on the gullwings. He is a great person and the stuff they are restoring is incredible.

https://hjeltnessrestoration.com

[joosttx]

For all you 1990-ish Mercedes fans....


https://youtu.be/TzauY_GO3S0

[mtechnica]

I have a 1999 M3 and a 1992 Land Cruiser so you can probably guess what I think about old cars. That said I do work on them quite a bit, and I wouldn’t own them if I had to pay someone else to work on them.

[ScottW]

Dad had a 1996 C36 AMG. Nice car and pretty much dead nuts reliable, had >180K miles before it got totaled (drunk driver ran a red light and got T-boned by my stepmom).
I do nearly all my own work on my cars so the upkeep wouldn't necessarily scare me off of MB if I otherwise liked one well enough. I know little about the pre-1990s models though, and many of the newer ones look too much like poorly designed footwear. Main problem for me is that my commute is long-ish and the AMG models that speak to me aesthetically are also somewhat thirsty.

[72gmc]

Old Mercedes cars are cool. Spent part of my childhood in a 450SL. I would volunteer to help Dad take the hard top off for sunny drives. He bought it used so it had a few squeaks and quirks, but the quality was obvious. I learned to appreciate quality and character rather than perfection.

[azrider]

I approve of this post.

Here is my dad's (now mine) '84 300D Turbo Diesel. I rode home shotgun at impressionable age of 8 years old. I will one day hand this down to my son.

[redir]

^ Sweet!

[Gummee]

My Dad was into Caddy Fleetwoods till he decided he was into Benzes.

His 1st was an 88 300SEL. Same basic car as the OP but with the gas engine. Not the fastest thing to get to cruising speed, but once there, it would stay at whatever speed you wanted to hold all day.

2nd was a 95 S320. Bigger. Heavier. Same basic engine. Double pane windows to cut down on road noise...

Of the 2, I preferred the 88 to drive. Better seats. Easier to see out of. etc The car had electrical gremlins tho, so once my Dad passed away, Mom gave it away to some friends.

Long story short: I'd drive another 300SEL or the OP's car any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Plusses: not nearly the # of sensors, electronical gizmos, etc to go wrong. Built better than anything modern. Wonderful cruising car.

Minus: no cupholders, minimal charging points, 'safety' devises, etc It's an older car, so will require older car upkeep. ...and... You're buying a very expensive luxury car with very expensive luxury car upkeep prices. Dad used to say 'anyone can afford to buy an older Benz. Not everyone can afford to maintain em right.'

M

[pasadena]

It's old, slow, stinky, no parts available, and it's not safe relative to modern cars.
Decades of love, or decades of abuse? That's the big unknown on trying to daily an old car.

Sounds like a money pit to me but life is short, if you really wanted one, go for it. Owning it might cure you. LOL

I love the idea of old Mercs...

[Louis]

I wouldn't try to use an old car as a daily driver unless I had a back-up. Regardless of how well maintained they are, they have lots of imaginative ways to fail and it can take a while to get them back on the road. Add to that having to drive them in bad weather, it's a hassle that isn't worth the fun.

Aside: I've decided that I want the extra space in my garage, so I'm going to sell my '73 Alfa GTV this year. I'll be sad to see it go, but I need the room for the motorcycles...

[buddybikes]

Jeez, thought when you said old it would be OLD, like a 1918 Dodge roadster that we regularly get a ride in to the ice cream stand...

[mtechnica]

I wouldn't try to use an old car as a daily driver unless I had a back-up

That’s why you have to have two old cars

[redir]

My wife is bothered by the safety issues and the idea of getting stranded. I fully intend to use this as a daily driver and something to drive down to Florida and out to Colorado in.

I look at it like this, years ago when I was taking flying lessons the Cessna 152's I was flying were commonly 35-40 years old and flown at 5,000ft with full confidence ;)

[pasadena]

My wife is bothered by the safety issues and the idea of getting stranded.

Those are legitimate concerns. You have to take that as an expected part of package until you get to know the car.

I would look carefully on what "fully restored" means. A rebuilt diesel with only 130k, non-factory paint color..starts to ring alarm bells.
Then again, 36 yr old car... maybe that is due but get a full inspection on it.

If your E420 is done after 10 yrs... moving to a 36yrs old unknown, you can't really expect reliable. That's a project car no matter how you slice it.

[redir]

Yup, I'll have to think about it for sure. We'll see this Sunday. He calims to have all the service records and receipts too. Wish me luck.

[pasadena]

Wish me luck.

No, that's what you say every time you start the car with your wife in it.
https://media.tenor.com/images/454b3bc6130ab27ba5a23905bb84ab51/tenor.gif

[texbike]

Before you spend the money on an old 126, go drive a nice, clean LS400 or LS430 and then see what you think. ;)

FYI, we've had both W210 and W211 E55s. The W210 was bullet-proof and only had one real issue (well 2 if you count the softdrink that my wife spilled into the console, shorting out the trans ECU directly below it) in 5 years. The 211 wasn't as trouble free.

Texbike

[Louis]

That’s why you have to have two old cars

Been there, done that - back in the late 80's I had a '73 Charger and a '70 Impala. I then added an '87 Alfa Spider to the mix, but having three cars was a lot to handle. However, it was possible to put my Trek in the Impala's trunk without having to remove the front wheel, so there were some benefits to those behemoths...

[RFC]

I am the happy owner of a fleet of old cars driven by various family members, including 96 and 98 Mercedes. I'd still have my 89 Landcruiser if it hadn't been T Boned in Mexico.

I was fortunate to find a local certified Mercedes shop (not owned by Mercedes) with an honest owner and certified mechanics who, as a side business, rebuild older cars and sell them for reasonable prices. For me, having a trustworthy mechanic is key. Mine is very good at prioritizing repairs based on safety and keeping the cars rolling. Far from being money pits, the total cost of the cars plus repairs over the years is far, far less than the cost of a new car. Plus, they are just cool.

As I said to my sons, "What would you rather have, a cool old Mercedes built like a tank or a new POS?" They love their Mercedes.

[AngryScientist]

unless looking at econo-boxes, the cost of new cars is getting out of control, especially for luxury brands like merc, bmw, audi, etc.

even if completely rebuilding an older car, you almost always come out ahead of the game.

rust is the big issue, if the frame and body are solid, everything else can be replaced at reasonable cost.

older cars are cooler. i hate all the electronics and nanny devices in new cars.

go for it!

[RFC]

unless looking at econo-boxes, the cost of new cars is getting out of control, especially for luxury brands like merc, bmw, audi, etc.

even if completely rebuilding an older car, you almost always come out ahead of the game.

rust is the big issue, if the frame and body are solid, everything else can be replaced at reasonable cost.

older cars are cooler. i hate all the electronics and nanny devices in new cars.

go for it!

Fortunately, not much rust here. The Southwest is the land of rust free old cars. The first Mercedes I bought was a cherry 89 SE300 with 60,000 miles from a couple that kept it at their second home here tucked away in a garage. I got it for $3,500 and would still have it if it hadn't been rear ended on a freeway on ramp.

[glepore]

I have 2 '96 v12 Mercedes. R129 roadster and c140 coupe. Mostly easy to work on, great cars, only issue is parts availability is in transition. Last of the bank vault quality cars. W123's and 124 are likewise awesome.

[RFC]

"Last of the bank vault quality cars."

I think that sums it up.

[Joxster]

Guessing the US models differed from the EU models, I had a 200D (maybe 220D) with the round headlights. I put about a gazillion KM's on it before it died. It did take a couple of coffees before the plugs warmed up.

[KarlC]

I have 2 '96 v12 Mercedes. R129 roadster and c140 coupe. Mostly easy to work on, great cars, only issue is parts availability is in transition. Last of the bank vault quality cars. W123's and 124 are likewise awesome.

Now this is a man who know Mercedes and the last of the real and good Mercedes.

After these models Mercedes went down hill, now they are made just like most all other car.

I do miss my W124 500E / E500 at times, the Mercedes Porsche built car.

I had 3 different 500E / E500, this was my last one, truly amazing cars .....

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4652/40050378911_65ec2d39d0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2427Ejk)GTG 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2427Ejk)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4709/40050379281_14bac034a9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2427EqH)GTG 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2427EqH)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4749/40050381641_f08e3291e4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2427F8p)GTG 4 (https://flic.kr/p/2427F8p)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4649/40050382321_09384d75b3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2427Fk8)GTG 5 (https://flic.kr/p/2427Fk8)


Most people dont know the backstory on them ........

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4663/28271034779_5ffee7c226_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K5drG8)Stuttgart%20025 (https://flic.kr/p/K5drG8)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4746/28271035179_dab380df21_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K5drP2)Stuttgart (https://flic.kr/p/K5drP2)

[redir]

Dang that it a sweet looking 500.

It will be different going from an M119 V8 to a 5 cylinder diesel. The E420 has been a great car but I don't drive fast much anymore. Funny thing is the only two tickets my wife ever got in her live was in my E. You just don't realize how fast you are going. I had the 420 doing 135mph once and it had more to give and felt solid. That was on a 5 lane section of Rt 95 in Florida with zero traffic just so you know ;)

[pasadena]

I do miss my W124 500E

That's the only Merc I really ever wanted.
That is the last of the iron clad ones.
Came close a couple times but too hard to find, and the owners know what they have with the prime ones.

[72gmc]

Is that the one they call the hammer? Or does it just look like it?

[choke]

Go for it. I'd much rather own that than anything you can buy new today.

[pasadena]

Is that the one they call the hammer? Or does it just look like it?

500E? No it's not a Hammer AMG
it's basically a hot rodded 300E w/ Porsche v8 and flared fenders

[glepore]

A 500E is on the bucket list, prices are finally rising though. Had an E28 m5 in the late 90's, truly an epic vehicle, prices now doing the same.
C43's are cheap now, and I'm tempted. With 5 vehicles in the household, though, I'd have to part with something and can't bear to.

[alancw3]

Well my wife calls me crazy anyway.

Ten years ago I really wanted one of these but a friend of mine sold me his '94 E420 at a steal of a price. It's been a great car for 10 years but she's done. I'd probably put money into it if it was not for the rust.

I know now that when people say, "oh man an old Mercedes is nothing but a money pit and the parts are expensive and blah blah..." that it's simply not true. The only time I have taken my 420 to the mechanic was for it's annual inspection. I've replaced the water pump, brake lines, blower motor, brakes, hoses, power steering.... and much more and it really was not terribly complicated and the parts are not terribly expensive. Take it to the MB shop and sure you will pay premium.

But anyway... The car that I want to 'upgrade to? An 1983 300SD Turbo Diesel with 130k miles on it, fully restored, new paint, rebuilt engine and so on.

I guess I am posting here for moral support... Help me, please :D

But if anyone has any experience with these cars I'd love to hear it.

Aint she a beauty?

https://images.craigslist.org/00808_eBwOhLUS05f_1200x900.jpg

so I have owned a 83 300sd and a 86 300sdl. imho there is no comparison between the two cars. the 300sd has a 5 cylinder Diesel engine and the 300sdl has a six cylinder Diesel engine. both same displacement but a world apart in drivability and smoothness. I personally think that the 1986 through 1990 300sd and 300sdl were the best Diesel engine cars that mb ever made and I have owned newer mb cars. someone posted about getting the older 15 hole wheels but I will say they are a bitch to try to keep keep clean. the newer style wheels are much easier to keep clean. probably don't look as nice imho.

[Spaghetti Legs]

No experience with this class car but I would like to say battleship gray is an appropriate color and as far as getting stranded, looks like you can fit a bike in the trunk.

Edit: Went from here over to Bike Forums and came across this:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1156833-unofficial-eroica-california-2019-bf-c-v-thread-reg-info-roll-call-more-8.html

Last page, post #183 might interest you.

[zambenini]

I support old cars. My previous daily drivers and MTB summer cruising wagons have been 20 year old Sienna's and Rangers and now I am driving a 15 year old Ford Econoline. It rules. The only newer car I have liked was our 2010 tdi sportwagen.

Would drive any age Mercedes or any age other car with a good once over by a decent mechanic at purchase. It's usually 100$ well spent.

[72gmc]

Old(er) mercedes content that I enjoy.

https://youtu.be/qPyKVkSDLbU

[redir]

Old(er) mercedes content that I enjoy.

https://youtu.be/qPyKVkSDLbU

Oh man! This one has been on my local CL for a few weeks now. If money was no object it would be in my garage :D

https://roanoke.craigslist.org/cto/d/martinsville-mercedes-benz/6829251975.html

[redir]

so I have owned a 83 300sd and a 86 300sdl. imho there is no comparison between the two cars. the 300sd has a 5 cylinder Diesel engine and the 300sdl has a six cylinder Diesel engine. both same displacement but a world apart in drivability and smoothness. I personally think that the 1986 through 1990 300sd and 300sdl were the best Diesel engine cars that mb ever made and I have owned newer mb cars. someone posted about getting the older 15 hole wheels but I will say they are a bitch to try to keep keep clean. the newer style wheels are much easier to keep clean. probably don't look as nice imho.

Right I forgot to mention the wheels that are in that pic have been replaced with wheels from I believe he said an 86 SEL.

Did the 6 cylinder one get any worse gas mileage, just curious. I've heard mention that the 6's had much better cruising speed and on ramp power. But at the same time everyone seems to love the earlier ones with the cast iron blocks too.

[alancw3]

Right I forgot to mention the wheels that are in that pic have been replaced with wheels from I believe he said an 86 SEL.

Did the 6 cylinder one get any worse gas mileage, just curious. I've heard mention that the 6's had much better cruising speed and on ramp power. But at the same time everyone seems to love the earlier ones with the cast iron blocks too.

both got about the same fuel milage, however the six cylinder engine was noticalby smoother and quieter. I have cruised at 120mph in the 1986 300sdl with no problem super stable car.

from a cycling standpoint the 300sdl has 6-8 inches of additional leg room in the rear. what made this so convenient was I could take the front wheel off my bike and slide the bike behind the front seats very easily and I use large frame bikes (62-65) safe and out of the weather. really miss that car. at about 200,000 miles transmission was acting up and I traded it in. I should have spent the $3000 for new tranny which I would have except I was getting some rust issues around the sunroof opening at the corners. car was 12 years old at that point and the prior owner most have kept outside. I traded the car in for an e class diesel but was not the same in room or performance. I did not like that car and sold after two years. like I said before imho the 1986-1990 300sdl and for that matter the 300sd (6-8 inches shorter wheelbase and rear leg room) were the pinnacle of mb car production.

[Gsinill]

both got about the same fuel milage, however the six cylinder engine was noticalby smoother and quieter. I have cruised at 120mph in the 1986 300sdl with no problem super stable car.

from a cycling standpoint the 300sdl has 6-8 inches of additional leg room in the rear. what made this so convenient was I could take the front wheel off my bike and slide the bike behind the front seats very easily and I use large frame bikes (62-65) safe and out of the weather. really miss that car. at about 200,000 miles transmission was acting up and I traded it in. I should have spent the $3000 for new tranny which I would have except I was getting some rust issues around the sunroof opening at the corners. car was 12 years old at that point and the prior owner most have kept outside. I traded the car in for an e class diesel but was not the same in room or performance. I did not like that car and sold after two years. like I said before imho the 1986-1990 300sdl and for that matter the 300sd (6-8 inches shorter wheelbase and rear leg room) were the pinnacle of mb car production.

I have the same issue with my current SDL, rust around the sunroof.
Had it fixed twice but the guy apparently never really went to the bottom of it.
PITA to do but I am planning to repair it myself in summer...

Despite some of the warnings about old cars in general in this thread, my SDL has been the cheapest and most reliable car I've ever owned.
The only bigger repair in the 10+ years I've owned it, was a rusted out right rear trailing arm.
Common issue on old W123/126s from the NE and Midwest due to salt.

Somebody here mentioned a known brake issue, which I never heard of.
I replaced rotors and pads myself without any issues, parts were fairly cheap.

The big advantage of those diesels is that there are literally no electronics that can go south.
The only cons compared to a newer car IMHO:


No airbags
Headlights
Prone to A/C and vacuum leaks which are PITA to fix

In case I can't get the sunroof rust under control, I consider getting an 90s 350SD(L) with a bad engine (common) and transplant mine.
This would also address the missing airbag.

[72gmc]

Headlights are an interesting note. They always look anemic on older Mercedes. Can you fix the issue with new wiring? That’s how I’m hoping to fix the weak lights in my old truck (probably LED bulbs as well).

[Gsinill]

Headlights are an interesting note. They always look anemic on older Mercedes. Can you fix the issue with new wiring? That’s how I’m hoping to fix the weak lights in my old truck (probably LED bulbs as well).

I actually "upgraded" mine with the Euro style reproduction head lights but this only improved the looks, not the performance of the HL.
I doubt the OEMs from that era are any better, simply a matter of technology improvements over the last 30 years.
Still need to look into any other potential upgrades like HiD etc...

[redir]

Well, the guy did a fantastic job on the car but I'll have to pass on it for a couple reasons. First off I didn't realize he had antique plates on it. In Virginia you can get antique plates so that you can basically take the car to car shows. I think you are aloud 250 personal miles per year on it. It also absolves you from getting the annual state inspection. He removed the cat converter which is perfectly fine on a registered antique car but it won't pass state inspection. Of course I could always put one on but I was hoping to just buy a daily driver. That and there was a notable clunk shifting from 2nd to 3rd, could be a simply vacuum issue there though, and too much shimmy at about 60MPH. But the engine truly was tip top, the body, trim and so on.

Oh well. I'm in no rush.

[AngryScientist]

Well, the guy did a fantastic job on the car but I'll have to pass on it for a couple reasons. First off I didn't realize he had antique plates on it. In Virginia you can get antique plates so that you can basically take the car to car shows. I think you are aloud 250 personal miles per year on it. It also absolves you from getting the annual state inspection. He removed the cat converter which is perfectly fine on a registered antique car but it won't pass state inspection. Of course I could always put one on but I was hoping to just buy a daily driver. That and there was a notable clunk shifting from 2nd to 3rd, could be a simply vacuum issue there though, and too much shimmy at about 60MPH. But the engine truly was tip top, the body, trim and so on.

Oh well. I'm in no rush.

good call. one thing with used cars is it's important to find the right one and not be in a rush (ask me how i know...).

transmission clunk would worry me also without knowing for sure what the issue was.