Schwinn Paramount PDG7

[Bentley]

I am considering purchasing a frame. Curious how good these frames are, ride quality? Apparently first year made in Japan (assuming Panasonic). Anyway all input appreciated

Best

Ray

[Peter P.]

Schwinn pioneered the oversized tubing concept, specifically in lugged frames because there were no lugs to fit OS tubes at the time.

I believe the PDG 7 was the top of the line, as there were PDG 5's etc.

An the Japanese (and Panasonic) were known for high quality work.

The paint jobs were iconic as well, whether the splatter or the red/white/blue, and others.

Get one.

[paredown]

Disclaimer--I have not ridden or owned one. I tried to arrange a purchase long distance on one, and it fell through...

But-everything I've read says these were top of the line frames, and wildly undervalued for a long time because they were "Pretendamounts" instead of true Paramounts.

Waterford still has the basic information here:
https://waterfordbikes.com/w/culture/paramount/pdg-series-bikes-1989-94/

And yes--Series 5/Series 7 were the same frames AFAIK, with differing group sets...

[Hilltopperny]

I've owned two Pdg series mountain bikes and one road bike. They were all of excellent quality and I doubt there is any discernable difference in ride quality compared to the Waterford built models.



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Chris]

Great bikes. I had a mtn bike and my wife had a PDG5. Loved them.

[rccardr]

I've owned a handful of the Series bikes. Not a big fan of unicrown forks, but all were excellent riders.

If I recall correctly, 25 was the largest tire that could be fitted.

[marsh]

I used to own a PDG 5 and still ride a Panasonic-built Schwinn Peloton.
Fantastic rides, but tire clearance was way tight on the PDG 5.
IIRC 25c was the max that would fit.

[wallymann]

I believe the PDG 7 was the top of the line, as there were PDG 5's etc.

9 was the range-topper, but carbon. 7 was top steel. all very nice bikes in their respective ranges.

teammate in college had a 7 spec'd with C-record and custom paint...it was sick!

https://waterfordbikes.com/w/culture/paramount/pdg-series-bikes-1989-94/

[jamesdak]

But-everything I've read says these were top of the line frames, and wildly undervalued for a long time because they were "Pretendamounts" instead of true Paramounts.

.

Yep, some uninformed still make that claim. I usually respond by saying ride in ride out my PDG Paramount is faster than my 87 Waterford built Paramount.

For the OP - They are great, high quality frames. Stiffer in the BB area than many bikes from that time frame. This translates into a bike that accelerates fast and climbs better than you would expect. Mine is one of my heavier bikes running a heavier wheelset yet set some of my fast climb times on a local 8 mile climb I regularly do. I don't think you can do wrong with these.

Mine is one of the "un-numberer" PDG Series bikes from the first prototype run that Panasonic did for Schwinn.



https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166081196.jpg



The Series 7 was tops for the steel bikes as the others have said. All the frames were the same, just made in different locations over the years and outfitted with different components.

[mhespenheide]

I bought one of the bare frames back in '93-'94 or so when Schwinn declared bankruptcy. I still have it; it's now living at my parent's house for riding duty whenever I'm home. Mine is a 62cm, candy-apple red.

It's heavier than modern steel (or anything modern, for that matter), but if you can get past that, it rides great. I doubt it will "plane" for you unless you're a big and strong rider since it's OS. But it's not crazy OS, either, just a little bigger than used to be normal. Pretty basic geometry, and I mean that in a good way. I've got mine set up with 7700 and similar polished bits, and enjoy the heck out of it when I'm back home.

With the caveat that you should not do this yourself, I will say a little judicious work with a dremel tool to the bottom of the unicrown let me fit 28mm tires front and rear. That's a true measured 28mm; 25mm on modern wide rims would probably max out the fit as well.


If it fits you and you're budget-conscious, you'd have to spend a lot of money to get something significantly better than a PDG.

[mhespenheide]

Yep, some uninformed still make that claim. I usually respond by saying ride in ride out my PDG Paramount is faster than my 87 Waterford built Paramount.

For the OP - They are great, high quality frames. Stiffer in the BB area than many bikes from that time frame. This translates into a bike that accelerates fast and climbs better than you would expect. Mine is one of my heavier bikes running a heavier wheelset yet set some of my fast climb times on a local 8 mile climb I regularly do. I don't think you can do wrong with these.

Mine is one of the "un-numberer" PDG Series bikes from the first prototype run that Panasonic did for Schwinn.



https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166081196.jpg



The Series 7 was tops for the steel bikes as the others have said. All the frames were the same, just made in different locations over the years and outfitted with different components.

I love the paint job on that, James. Semi-iconic after the Wheaties-Schwinn team that battled 7-11 on the American scene.

[Bentley]

I love the paint job on that, James. Semi-iconic after the Wheaties-Schwinn team that battled 7-11 on the American scene.

Sweet looking bike

I contacted the seller and made an offer, we will see

Ray

[jamesdak]

Oh and just to give another data point on tire fit. On mine when I had a new Continental GP 4000s II 700 x 25 on a set of new Campagnolo Scirocco wheels I got some rub with the front tire on the fork. I swapped to a 700 x 25. So by today's standards tire clearance is tight but back in the day a 700 x 25 would have been huge. Of course we also know the Conti's run large so I bet a true sized 25mm tire will fit just fine.

[cmbicycles]

Yep, some uninformed still make that claim. I usually respond by saying ride in ride out my PDG Paramount is faster than my 87 Waterford built Paramount.

For the OP - They are great, high quality frames. Stiffer in the BB area than many bikes from that time frame. This translates into a bike that accelerates fast and climbs better than you would expect. Mine is one of my heavier bikes running a heavier wheelset yet set some of my fast climb times on a local 8 mile climb I regularly do. I don't think you can do wrong with these.

Mine is one of the "un-numberer" PDG Series bikes from the first prototype run that Panasonic did for Schwinn.



https://pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166081196.jpg



The Series 7 was tops for the steel bikes as the others have said. All the frames were the same, just made in different locations over the years and outfitted with different components.Timely thread as I just found one of these today for a spring project. Same paint, but has a quite random mix of parts. Has 9s mix of parts and STX-RC hubs on wolber 700c rims... haven't measured yet to see if they re spaced the hub or frame, but kind of doubt they did either. Owner said they got it from a co-op so they probably just grabbed whatever they had to make a frankenbike. I'll strip it down to the frame and make something nicer out of it in time.

Does anyone know if these originally came with a 7s drivetrain, or 8s? I'm thinking the Red/white/blue was the pdg5, but so far Google hasn't confirmed. If anyone here has some additional knowledge to share I'd be interested to hear.

[jamesdak]

The Red/White/Blue ones do not have a series number because they are the first ones. They are lugged OS Tange Prestige and part of the prototype run before these went into production. They are Panasonic made. They also did a run of white welded frames too. I've seen maybe two of those online over the years. I'm not sure how many of these exist but I think I've seen at least 1/2 dozen of them around at various bike forums.

Now in 1991 the top end PDG Series 90 Mountain Bikes did go to production with this paint scheme.

https://waterfordbikes.com/pdg-series-bikes-1989-94/

Detailed pics of mine here:

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/pdg_paramount

[jamesdak]

Sweet looking bike

I contacted the seller and made an offer, we will see

Ray

Awesome, hope it works out.

[Bentley]

Made an offer and the seller accepted

It’s the violet blue colorway

[jamesdak]

Congrats!

[wtex]

Not a a PDG, but a beautiful Paramount, OS it looks like with a new paint job: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schwinn-Paramount-Road-Bicycle-Frame-Size-56cm-700c-Wheels-Steel-Tubing/292995039076?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

FWIW, I've got one of the early 90s OS frames, and I was able to get a Veloflex Vlandeeren 27mm tubular on it by backing up the dropout adjusters. No problem with fitting those on the frame, apart from the chainstays. Got 2mm on both sides of the stays by backing out the adjusters. I just had that bike out for 2 hours yesterday, love it, it just rolls! Actually, yesterday's ride was around 2K feet of steady climbs, and with the Shimano WH-7850 wheels on it, it felt fine.

[Bentley]

Not a a PDG, but a beautiful Paramount, OS it looks like with a new paint job: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schwinn-Paramount-Road-Bicycle-Frame-Size-56cm-700c-Wheels-Steel-Tubing/292995039076?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

FWIW, I've got one of the early 90s OS frames, and I was able to get a Veloflex Vlandeeren 27mm tubular on it by backing up the dropout adjusters. No problem with fitting those on the frame, apart from the chainstays. Got 2mm on both sides of the stays by backing out the adjusters. I just had that bike out for 2 hours yesterday, love it, it just rolls! Actually, yesterday's ride was around 2K feet of steady climbs, and with the Shimano WH-7850 wheels on it, it felt fine.

I love the paint, but too big. There is an SLX that looks nice too

😀

[Keith A]

The Red/White/Blue ones do not have a series number because they are the first ones. They are lugged OS Tange Prestige and part of the prototype run before these went into production. They are Panasonic made. They also did a run of white welded frames too. I've seen maybe two of those online over the years. I'm not sure how many of these exist but I think I've seen at least 1/2 dozen of them around at various bike forums.

Now in 1991 the top end PDG Series 90 Mountain Bikes did go to production with this paint scheme.

https://waterfordbikes.com/pdg-series-bikes-1989-94/

Detailed pics of mine here:

https://pbase.com/jhuddle/pdg_paramount
Great looking bike. I have a couple of Waterford Paramounts, and have always wanted to try one of the PDG series.

BTW, what are the little cable bumpers you have on the headtube?

[Keith A]

Made an offer and the seller accepted

It’s the violet blue colorwayNice...got any pictures?

[shinomaster]

I am considering purchasing a frame. Curious how good these frames are, ride quality? Apparently first year made in Japan (assuming Panasonic). Anyway all input appreciated

Best

Ray

I rode the crap out of a Purple one in college circa 1993. It was a nice bike for the time. I just got a series three for my dad to ride while he visits randomly. It's a pretty firm ride, and not comparable to a new frame like my Zank for example. The handling is pretty good though.

[jamesdak]

Great looking bike. I have a couple of Waterford Paramounts, and have always wanted to try one of the PDG series.

BTW, what are the little cable bumpers you have on the headtube?

Just part of the Jagwire kit to protect the frame from cable rub.

[Bentley]

Nice...got any pictures?

I’ll twke some when it comes in. Likely need some help posting

Ray