dario: the dude will abide

[Climb01742]

there's a cool update to the dario saga on competitivecyclist.com site. how many builders quote the big lebowski? dario and brendan, best wishes to both of you.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=3668

[davids]

That was wonderful - both moving and inspiring.

Thanks for pointing it out, climb.

Here's to you, Round: :beer:

[William]

Thanx James.


William

[Erik.Lazdins]

Thanks for the posting - I hope to see some Responsorium write-ups here soon. It's good to hear Dario is well.

[dbrk]

Dario's depth of humanity, candor, genius in craft, and soul leave me inspired and honored to call him "friend." I am eager to endure more Pegoretti frames and look forward to seeing each and every one. As for the exchange, the website, the outcome: All of this reflects well upon this passionate endeavor (and our shared love of the bike), one that has presented opportunities of friendship, business, craft, and creativity. Soul is never in short supply but it rarely rises so beautifully to the surface in such honest conversation.

dbrk

[Serpico]

argghhh! I really want to read this, but the eye doctor just dilated my eyes :crap: and everything is blurry :(

[atmo]

Joe Gillies: "You're Norma Desmond. You used to be in silent pictures. You used to be big."
Norma: "I am big! It's the pictures that got small!"

[14max]

argghhh! I really want to read this (and start buying stuff from cc again), but the eye doctor just dilated my eyes :crap: and everything is blurry :(

Speaking of big. Here you go, Serpico...

First of all I want to thank Competitive Cyclist for giving me the opportunity to reply to Brendan’s piece.

When I read the above review of the Responsorium frame, the first question I asked myself was: where did I go wrong?

The concept of that frame, according to Brendan, didn’t remind me at all of what I meant to express with those colours and decorations. Nor did it capture the poetry of it.

But as we know, it’s all part of the game when your new models are shown, especially if you impart to them something more than the ‘simple’ geometry of a frame, you have to expect the most unlikely reactions.

I was struck by several comments Brendan makes. Not so much by the possibility that my ‘artistic’ qualities as a frame-builder are declining. That is something that only customers can decide. I was struck instead by the reference to my supposed mental problems.

Up to a point, I must say, the whole thing made me feel quite bad. I started thinking about it, and the idea kept coming back. “Look at that” – I said to myself – “Maybe I am crazy, and I didn’t even know”. I kept thinking, and thinking, and thinking, until I understood that he was right.

Yes, it is possible that I’m crazy.

I have been welding tubes for years, and I still like this kind of stuff. I still like to hold tubes in my hands, and try to imagine what the final product will look like. I am so crazy that I still work hard and spend nights at the computer trying to find new ways of joining those tubes together.

It is impossible for me to think of a bike outside its natural element, which happens to be the road. This is madness, in a world where making bikes seems to hold no relationship to what bikes are meant for. It is a world where many riders accept all the ‘improvements’ that companies claim to make, without ever thinking of questioning them.

I must be crazy, because I don’t get it. And that’s why I take this opportunity to thank all of you who wrote or called to find out how I am and how I feel these days. Don’t worry, I am still building frames with the same passion and the same hands. And this could be suicidal in today’s cycling market. Is that romantic enough? Is it suicidal enough? It is, believe me.

I hope this puts to rest any fears or thoughts anyone may have that I might actually inflict harm upon myself.

So, I’m still building frames, by hand; geometry, welding, painting, and all that. My maestro – everybody has one -- was Luigino Milani. He taught me everything, and I often think of him. I am fond of his memory, both as an artist and as a man. Because he was, and I learned from him to be, weary of the quick buck, of vulgarity, of lack of soul.

Like the Dude, “I will not abide”.

Be ready, then, to endure more Pegoretti frames.

Ciao,

Dario

[Serpico]

thank you

[OldDog]

Crazy artisans / crazy enthusiests, fullfilling and participating in what still amounts to a crazy, fringe sport. I'm grateful to be a participant in this family of lunitics :beer:

[slowgoing]

I don’t blame Brendan for feeling the way he did. When you’re dealing with a one man shop, you’re buying into the man as much as the bike, so perceptions can become very important.

And what a great response by Dario. He’s absolutely delightful. Thanks, Brendan, for letting him respond.

[Grant McLean]

Dario gets it, more than ever.

Anyone who writes this is a genius:

"It is impossible for me to think of a bike outside its natural element,
which happens to be the road. This is madness, in a world where making
bikes seems to hold no relationship to what bikes are meant for. ...
I must be crazy, because I don’t get it. "

As discussed many times on every internet forum, bikes are more than for
riding to many people, (myself included). Being a "cyclist" is being part of the
culture that includes tech geekdom, and obsessing about details that are,
in the end, completely subservient to "the ride". I, for one, want to own
bikes made brilliantly by people who make bikes to be ridden. The lust of
owning a fancy "new" gizmo, for the sake of having what's in vogue seems
to drive most of the sales at retail. That's part of mainstream culture that
is creeping more and more into our sport. But the beauty I find in well designed
bikes comes from their fuction as perfect tools. For me, there is no "art"
without the purpose.

Dario gets it.

g

[fiamme red]

.

[d_douglas]

I assume that the same people who choose the art because it matches the curtains are the same ones that criticized Dario's latest. What's not to love?

It was not inspired by what he suspected would sell this coming year, but shockingly, by his .... emotions. I cannot comment on whether he has lost a step or two in frame building terms, but he is doing what any great artist does for inspiration: using emotion.

I, for one, love the paint. If for no other reason, than it is unique (I assume that he will not(read: SHOULD not) try to replicate the paint. He painted what he felt when he felt it.

As for those that say, "my daughter could have painted that", trust me - they couldn't have. I am subject to this kind of criticism through my work (architecture) and have come to realize that 'those who cannot visualize, criticize'.

If you want your house/landscaping/painting/bicycle frame to look like everyone else's, it's easy - if you want to make it unusual/engaging/thought provoking/stimulating/enjoyable ask an artist like Dario to work his magic.

Cheers Mr. Pegoretti.

[sn69]

3000 years of beautiful history, Dario,...from Moses to Sandy Koufax......

[mike p]

F--k it dude let's go bowling...
Your out of your element...
I too dabbled in pacifism once...
Your being very un-dude...
Shut the f--- up donny...
The dude abides...

[swoop]

my money is on brendan. i think everything he wrote was spot on..and i think perhaps taken a little too literal and lost in translation (lip my stocking).
it was just a riff on impermanence and waking up to the reality that this moment in time isn't going to last a lot longer... and that even just a whim can make it all go away.

that being said.... dario is a kind of buddha with a torch. may we all find and lose ourselves and what we do.

[Climb01742]

my money is on brendan. i think everything he wrote was spot on..and i think perhaps taken a little too literal and lost in translation (lip my stocking).
it was just a riff on impermanence and waking up to the reality that this moment in time isn't going to last a lot longer... and that even just a whim can make it all go away.

respectfully, my take is a 180 to yours. based on talking to dario, with a torch in his hand is when he's happy and most relaxed. building and designing bikes is still a joy for him. and the clock on that joy ain't ticking...at least no louder than it is for any of us. the dude abides.

[swoop]

respectfully, my take is a 180 to yours. based on talking to dario, with a torch in his hand is when he's happy and most relaxed. building and designing bikes is still a joy for him. and the clock on that joy ain't ticking...at least no louder than it is for any of us. the dude abides.

that's not what i'm sayin.... i'm talking existential... general stuff. apples and oranges.... or more like apples and tube socks.

[mike p]

that's not what i'm sayin.... i'm talking existential... general stuff. apples and oranges.... or more like apples and tube socks.


YOUR OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT SWOOP!

Mike

[Serpico]

.
the text cc quoted as dario's says "the dude will not abide"

looks like you guys need to spend a couple threads re-writing all yer high falutin' theories now--surely that "not" wasn't just a spelling error--right?

lol, these threads crack me up

awesome frames that somehow lead to pedantic mental m**********n when discussed on the internet



btw, cheers Round :beer: looking forward to all your future work
.

[dirtdigger88]

Serpico-

you should have been with me a few weeks ago at the big landscaper's trade show in Ohio

dudes were getting just as jacked up over lawn mowers-

everybody is into something . . .

Jason

[Serpico]

I guess, it just gets a bite tiresome--especially when the framebuilder doesn't buy into all the stuff that spectators imbue the product with

it's like a film review where the critic is reading way too much into things and the director is rolling his eyes while reading the review

I usually love this type of micro-dissection super geeky discussion, but not when people are talking about a person


and this is separate issue: but talking about framebuilders personal lives, when did this begin? are we really that numbed by the media's intrusion into entertainers' and politicians' lives that we expect to read about a framebuilder's personal life in a bike review?

[atmo]

and this is separate issue: but talking about framebuilders personal lives, when did this begin? are we really that numbed by the media's intrusion into entertainers' and politicians' lives that we expect to read about a framebuilder's personal life in a bike review?
jane austen texas atmo.
“well, well, my dear, what are we but
fodder for our neighbors’ amusement?"

[dirtdigger88]

.

[AgilisMerlin]

“The kind of relatedness to the world may be noble or trivial, but even being related to the basest kind of pattern is immensely preferable to being alone.”

Erich Fromm 1900-1980


AmerliN

[swoop]

YOUR'e OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT SWOOP!

Mike


huh? i drive an a3 and not an element. if i am talking about a perception of a whole rather than a concrete part and then relating it to a universal truth.. what element am i out of?

when i buy stuff online.. i wanna buy it from a guy that writes from something he feels. i just assume that the reader knows that the words on the page are always a reflection of the writer and never a statement about the subject.

i never not for once read the copy and thought anything was being said about dario kiling himself or being suicidally depressed. i did very much read it as a vamp on manufacturing versus something much more personal, specific, and fragile... via what was evoked in brendan by the man and the frame and the painting on the frame.

but that's just me...
it's when it gets concrete that it gets silly. as for revering the welding of tubes as some sort of higher state of consciousness... all i can say is that when you meet buddha on the road.. kill him.


bicycles have always been the source of reverence. just ask einstien, marcel breuer, or picasso.
atmo.
as for being in my element.. i am my element.

[atmo]

all i can say is that when you meet buddha on the road.. kill him.

gets it.

[J.Greene]

when i buy online I want the product to show up in a few days.

all these posts are getting betsy atmo!

JG


when i buy stuff online.. i wanna buy it from a guy that writes from something he feels. i just assume that the reader knows that the words on the page are always a reflection of the writer and never a statement about the subject.

[manet]

http://www.sfgate.com/examiner/bondage/BOND-23908.html

[taz-t]

when i buy online I want the product to show up in a few days.

all these posts are getting betsy atmo!

JG

Actually, Morgan is getting Betsy...

- Taz

[Louis]

and this is separate issue: but talking about framebuilders personal lives, when did this begin? are we really that numbed by the media's intrusion into entertainers' and politicians' lives that we expect to read about a framebuilder's personal life in a bike review?

Actually, since the customer is boss I think we should demand that all custom builders provide results from both a Rorschach test and an MMPI. That way we can be sure to choose one that is on the correct wavelength.

Otherwise, the bike may never plane.

[Samster]

i missed most of this action. but i can highly recommend a Marcelo to anyone.

[davids]

Is anyone here planning to buy a Responsorium?

[catulle]

Actually, since the customer is boss I think we should demand that all custom builders provide results from both a Rorschach test and an MMPI. That way we can be sure to choose one that is on the correct wavelength.

Otherwise, the bike may never plane.


The new TAT. Please tell me a story of what is happening in the following pictures...

[Climb01742]

Is anyone here planning to buy a Responsorium?

i have one on order.

[catulle]

I got an e-mail from my soothsayer the oher day, iirc...

[Archibald]

.
the text cc quoted as dario's says "the dude will not abide"

looks like you guys need to spend a couple threads re-writing all yer high falutin' theories now--surely that "not" wasn't just a spelling error--right?

lol, these threads crack me up

awesome frames that somehow lead to pedantic mental m**********n when discussed on the internet



btw, cheers Round :beer: looking forward to all your future work
.
“And during the few moments that we have left, we want to talk, right down to earth, in a language that everybody here can easily understand.” (Malcolm X)

Look in my eyes, what do you see?
the Cult of Personality....

[fffastfreddie]

I want one......... no I need one!

Bob if you're reading this please, please phone Dario :crap:

[catulle]

The cult of personality, indeed....

[Archibald]

The cult of personality, indeed....
You misunderstand. It's not that Dario actively cultivates a COP, it's as I understand Serpico's point; that people assign traits, principles, etc. to him he doesn't necessarily believe or see in himself. There's a certain amount of worship that goes on with folks to whom we attribute traits we admire; it happens all around us.

Your use of Lance is a good example of those attributed beliefs. I simply don't believe he's the root of all evil, in cycling or elsewhere, so I don't belong to the cult that think he does. Doesn't mean I think he's not just as blemished, or more so, as any of us are.

[atmo]

There's a certain amount of worship that goes on with folks to whom we attribute traits we admire; it happens all around us.
great nails (http://www.yellowjersey.org/tinsely.html) atmo.

[Johny]

i have one on order.

51cm Please. :)

[Serpico]

bro, it's like this... TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF THE FRAMEBUILDER, AND PUT THE MOUSE DOWN

seriously, unless you're a friend or a neighbor--let these cats be

I think it's great they contribute to this forum, but damn. I would consider it "off the clock" time (whatever that means)

some narcissist goes to hollywood because they want their name in lights--I don't buy it when they complain about the paparazzo, but I don't think the "industry" folks here want to be bothered. if they "push" something--cool. but don't "pull" anything from them. just respect like normal people.

but that cc writeup about dario is frickin' beyond the pale--seriously, I won't ever change my mind on that. the fact that it now has a "reply" from the framebuilder is just taking this thing further. seriously, that responsorium "review" is cc's iraq imo--he shoulda cut n' run the first time he got an inbox full of "***?!?" emails.

I don't know much, but I know that^^^


You misunderstand. It's not that Dario actively cultivates a COP, it's as I understand Serpico's point; that people assign traits, principles, etc. to him he doesn't necessarily believe or see in himself. There's a certain amount of worship that goes on with folks to whom we attribute traits we admire; it happens all around us.

Your use of Lance is a good example of those attributed beliefs. I simply don't believe he's the root of all evil, in cycling or elsewhere, so I don't belong to the cult that think he does. Doesn't mean I think he's not just as blemished, or more so, as any of us are.

[manet]

Is anyone here planning to buy a Responsorium?

it NEEDS a steel fork first.

[Louis]

Oh for the good old days, when framebuilders were framebuilders, and customers were customers, and never the twain shall meet...

[Serpico]

Oh for the good old days, when framebuilders were framebuilders, and customers were customers, and never the twain shall meet...

no, I'm not at all trying to dictate the relations between anyone--it's simply none of my business. I know plenty of cats here who have become friendly with folks that have built them a bike they love. nothing wrong with that. it's about respect. and sometimes respect is letting people be, not hammering their inbox with emails or talking about their personal biz on teh internets.

I'm just saying give these cats some breathing room.

I still can't believe that dario writeup. seriously.

[gdw]

I agree with Serpico. The whole Dario cult is bizarre and the write-up that was on the Competitive Cyclists website was the strangest and worst promotional piece I've ever seen.

[djg]

Is anyone here planning to buy a Responsorium?

I'm not shopping for a new ride right now, but if I were, budget permitting, the Responsorium and the Marcelo would be pretty darn high on the list. Looks like a cool road bike to me.

The rest of the hand wringing is beyond my ken. I don't have one of Dario's bikes, but I've thrown a leg over a friend's Marcelo, which seemed to me the kind of thing I want in a bike. Really. I like quite a few of the paint jobs and most of the titles, and I don't doubt that Round is a cool dude, and I'm glad to hear that he's fine, his very public unsolicited analysis notwithstanding; but for me, as a guy who has never met him, the bike is the thing.

[Serpico]

word, I'm replacing my concours with a marcelo or a ble


I'm not shopping for a new ride right now, but if I were, budget permitting, the Responsorium and the Marcelo would be pretty darn high on the list. Looks like a cool road bike to me.

The rest of the hand wringing is beyond my ken. I don't have one of Dario's bikes, but I've thrown a leg over a friend's Marcelo, which seemed to me the kind of thing I want in a bike. Really. I like quite a few of the paint jobs and most of the titles, and I don't doubt that Round is a cool dude, and I'm glad to hear that he's fine, his very public unsolicited analysis notwithstanding; but for me, as a guy who has never met him, the bike is the thing.

[Jack Brunk]

Serpico,

What size Marcelo do you need? I have a new 55cm available.



Jack

[davids]

Glad to hear that there's interest in the bike. As Dario himself implied, that's the thing.

I do get the Pegoretti "cult" to an extent. There are very few builders out there who actually are living something approaching the archetypical 'solitary craftsman, following his private muse' thing that some of us idealize. When that's coupled to his undeniable palmares, and the very cool bikes he's producing now, the admiration is understandable. Finally, layer onto this his stunning show bikes and his engaging personality, and the adulation makes some sense.

And having finally had the opportunity to ride a Pegoretti... Well, I bought it, OK? The Love #3 is an exceptional bike, atmo.

I think a lot of the ruckus around the CC article has to do with the article itself. I'm with Serpico - I thought it was completely inappropriate, and it would be over the line no matter who it was written about. Despite Dario's gracious response, my opinion (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=271580&postcount=50) of the blurb hasn't changed.

[Serpico]

Serpico,

What size Marcelo do you need? I have a new 55cm available.



Jack

thank you, I need a 59 or 58 though :o

[steelcrazy]

anybody feel they want to talk to Dario's shrink before buying a Responsorium, please let me know. I do have the guy's phone number.
Steelcrazy

[Samster]

word, I'm replacing my concours with a marcelo or a blepull that trigger imo.

[Scary Lurker]

Sorry, as self-proclaimed lurker I shouldn’t chime in, BUT, Dario should cut off his ear and mail it to Brendan. Then he should paint a self-portrait of his bandaged head somewhere on the new Responsorium.
This would clearly answer the Genius v Madman question.
;)

[stevep]

I agree with Serpico. The whole Dario cult is bizarre and the write-up that was on the Competitive Cyclists website was the strangest and worst promotional piece I've ever seen.

agree.
the guy who wrote that should be thrown into solitary confinement for 1 year.

beat up justin when you see him