My findings about campy with big(ger) cassettes

[R3awak3n]

Thought I would share this since I know some people want to ride campy with big gears, be it for climbing days or gravel bikes.

My findings...

Potenza Mid Cage RD

11-36 - I had seen someone have this work great on weight weenies, well I tried it and it was a no go for me. I could not get in the 36t properly. It would work but be clunky and make a weird noise. so I got a wolf tooth ROAD LINK, put it on and now all is good. Chain goin in no problem, few rides in and its awesome. I have a 46/34 crank with this setup. Cassette is sram 1170 11-36T

11-34 - My other wheelset has this on, works fine of course with the ROAD LINK. I am 99% sure this would work without the road link since the 11-36T almost worked.

Chorus Short Cage RD

11-32 - I was surprised to see this work flawlessly. No Road Link necessary. I put the 32T cassette on the short cage and chain wrap looks pretty good, can get into the big ring - big chainring just fine and derailleur does not seem like its screaming. Small - Small is ok too, a tiny bit of slack but totally acceptable.



Wonder if anyone is running a 11-40 cassette... Wolftooth does not recommend it and I surely don't need such big gearing but would be interested to know.

[oliver1850]

I ran a Centaur 10 RD with a 36 large cog a few years ago, just to see if it would shift to that big a cog. It handled the 36 with no problem. I was always going to respace an S10 12-36 cassette to C10 but I don't think a loose cog cassette exists with a 34-36 cog, and drilling out rivets to respace the cogs on a carrier seemed like a lot of work.

[jtbadge]

I wonder how much difference running the smaller gap in chainrings makes (46-34 instead of a compact at 50-34). Theoretically this would help your derailleur wrap more chain around the cassette, or at least take up the slack better. Could explain why the 11-32 worked with a short cage?

[AngryScientist]

for a while, i ran a 1x setup with 11-40 in the rear and 38t wide narrow ring in front. mid cage potenza RD on a roadlink.

got up into the 40 no problem, but there was barely enough chain wrap to keep enough tension down in the 11t. it worked, but there was very very little tension in the smaller cogs which led to a lot of chain slap.

https://instagram.fewr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/vp/2f42312c9f3fe033c15274ae92ad70ce/5D1F0B37/t51.2885-15/e35/17662658_386703238377772_1810493405784965120_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=instagram.fewr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net

[R3awak3n]

I wonder how much difference running the smaller gap in chainrings makes (46-34 instead of a compact at 50-34). Theoretically this would help your derailleur wrap more chain around the cassette, or at least take up the slack better. Could explain why the 11-32 worked with a short cage?

oh the 11-32 is with a 50-34... Should have cleared that and it works no problem on all gears - I do think that it would work even better with say a 48t or a 46t but surprisingly works fine with the compact crank. I was going to road link it but then tried it and no problem.

for a while, i ran a 1x setup with 11-40 in the rear and 38t wide narrow ring in front. mid cage potenza RD on a roadlink.

got up into the 40 no problem, but there was barely enough chain wrap to keep enough tension down in the 11t. it worked, but there was very very little tension in the smaller cogs which led to a lot of chain slap.

https://instagram.fewr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/vp/2f42312c9f3fe033c15274ae92ad70ce/5D1F0B37/t51.2885-15/e35/17662658_386703238377772_1810493405784965120_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=instagram.fewr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net

that is always the problem, the small/small and tension. With all my setups the small/small is not the best, it works but not great. I am ok with that because I would never run it small small. Of course with a 1x that is not going to work because you are going to want that.




_______



I love big cassettes. I now don't have a single cassette under 32T and most my bikes are 1:1 (only one is 34T - 32T)

[cgolvin]

Chorus Short Cage RD

11-32 - I was surprised to see this work flawlessly. No Road Link necessary. I put the 32T cassette on the short cage and chain wrap looks pretty good, can get into the big ring - big chainring just fine and derailleur does not seem like its screaming. Small - Small is ok too, a tiny bit of slack but totally acceptable.

Very helpful…who makes the 11-32 cassette you're using with the Chorus Short Cage?

I have a mid cage Chorus 10 RD and am tempted to try it with a 34, but am planning to upgrade to 11 so it's not worth investing in a cassette to try it.

[R3awak3n]

Very helpful…who makes the 11-32 cassette you're using with the Chorus Short Cage?

I have a mid cage Chorus 10 RD and am tempted to try it with a 34, but am planning to upgrade to 11 so it's not worth investing in a cassette to try it.

Using a ultegra 11-32 on that one.

The 11-34s are also ultegra, the new hg8000 i think its called

11-36 is sram 1170.

All shift adequately.

[makoti]

Interesting. Where did you find a 32 Campy Cassette? does the Potenza line have one?

[R3awak3n]

Interesting. Where did you find a 32 Campy Cassette? does the Potenza line have one?

The cassette I use is shimano but potenza does come in 11-32t

[jtbadge]

The cassette I use is shimano but potenza does come in 11-32t

There's also the Chorus/"H11" cassette in 11-32. I don't know if that's actually different, though.

https://www.coloradocyclist.com/campagnolo-chorus-h11-cassette-11-32

[ultraman6970]

I do have a 32 potenza installed and the thing works fine, but what Ive noticed is that chain length needs to be the right one or the RD starts acting up a little.

[cgolvin]

I do have a 32 potenza installed and the thing works fine, but what Ive noticed is that chain length needs to be the right one or the RD starts acting up a little.


Ultra, are you using a short cage RD?

I assume that everything is hunky dory with a midcage—32 works well with my Chorus mid except I can't do big-big because the chain's slightly too short.


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[Andy340]

Using 11-34 Ultegra CS-HG800 (& matching ultegra chain) with potenza medium cage rear and 46/34 front chainrings without issue or need for road link. Chainstay lenght on frame is pretty long at 435mm so that may help

Of note, originally opted for a ‘neutral’ kmc chain but could never get drivetrain to run quietly across cassette. Swapping to ultegra 11 chain solved that.

[ultraman6970]

I have the midcage potenza... have the whole group in a bike. I never do cross chain... but i have tried big big and works but is rough... way too crossed IMO.

The issue IMO with going giant big cogs is that or you get the big stuff working losing chain tension with the mid down small cogs or try to go in the middle which will give you better tension in the middle down cogs but when you put the flying saucer or start going up the big cogs the chain will get short...

Ultra, are you using a short cage RD?

I assume that everything is hunky dory with a midcage—32 works well with my Chorus mid except I can't do big-big because the chain's slightly too short.


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[robertbb]

Campy has an 11-32 in the Potenza line, but it's quite heavy unfortunately.

Gradation is not ideal in my view:

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32

The Miche options are intriguing - anyone ever tried one?

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/miche-11-speed-primato-custom-cassettes-for-campagnolo

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Miche/Light-Primato-Campagnolo-11-speed-cassette-p56573/

They are single cogs, so more economical. And one could put together something like:

12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26-29-30

12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26-29-32

:banana:

[ultraman6970]

15/16/17/18/19 are a must imo in any cassette...well could be because those are the cogs I always use? :P

[bfd]

Campy has an 11-32 in the Potenza line, but it's quite heavy unfortunately.

Gradation is not ideal in my view:

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32

The Miche options are intriguing - anyone ever tried one?

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/miche-11-speed-primato-custom-cassettes-for-campagnolo

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Miche/Light-Primato-Campagnolo-11-speed-cassette-p56573/

They are single cogs, so more economical. And one could put together something like:

12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26-29-30

12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26-29-32

:banana:

Or if you using 11 speed, just get the Campy Centaur 12-32 cassette as the ratios are:

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32

I currently have an 11-32 cassette and have basically never used the 11t except to make sure I can get in and out of it. A 16t cog would have been much more useful for me.

And the 12-32 cassette isn't even expensive at about $65:

https://www.merlincycles.com/campagnolo-centaur-11-speed-cassette-110786.html

In contrast, Sram etap 12 is now coming out with several cassettes that have 10t cog?! I really don't get the 10t, but I guess they're marketed to “pro" riders....Good Luck!

[Mzilliox]

Or if you using 11 speed, just get the Campy Centaur 12-32 cassette as the ratios are:

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32

I currently have an 11-32 cassette and have basically never used the 11t except to make sure I can get in and out of it. A 16t cog would have been much more useful for me.

In contrast, Sram etap 12 is now coming out with several cassettes that are like 10-32 or something like that. I really don't get the 10t, but I guess they're market are "pro" riders....Good Luck!

the 10 may be for 1x users. allows a smaller front ring. like the 10-42 cassettes for 1x, allows running a 42 in front and still having a fast gear i guess??

[bfd]

the 10 may be for 1x users. allows a smaller front ring. like the 10-42 cassettes for 1x, allows running a 42 in front and still having a fast gear i guess??

I don’t know, the Sram 12 cassettes I see are 10-26, 10-28 and 10-33?! Those don’t seem like 1x cassettes, but I could be wrong.

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/sram-red-axs-xg-1290-12-speed-xdr-cassette-10-28t-d1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiojfmuDn4AIVYR6tBh2-kw-UEAQYASABEgJjUfD_BwE

Good Luck!

[robertbb]

Or if you using 11 speed, just get the Campy Centaur 12-32 cassette as the ratios are:

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32

I currently have an 11-32 cassette and have basically never used the 11t except to make sure I can get in and out of it. A 16t cog would have been much more useful for me.


Never knew this cassette existed. The jumps at the top end are too much (for me) unfortunately.

[fa63]

Those cassettes are meant to be used with the new SRAM Red eTap AXS double cranksets with smaller chainrings; here is the marketing jargon from them:

Current:
53×39, 11-25/28, professional
52×36, 11-28, passionate/racer
50×34, 11-32, sporting/ casual rider

SRAM AXS:
50×37, 10-26, professional
48×35, 10-28, passionate / racer
46×33, 10-33, sporting / casual rider

I don’t know, the Sram 12 cassettes I see are 10-26, 10-28 and 10-33?! Those don’t seem like 1x cassettes, but I could be wrong.

[R3awak3n]

I don’t know, the Sram 12 cassettes I see are 10-26, 10-28 and 10-33?! Those don’t seem like 1x cassettes, but I could be wrong.

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/sram-red-axs-xg-1290-12-speed-xdr-cassette-10-28t-d1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiojfmuDn4AIVYR6tBh2-kw-UEAQYASABEgJjUfD_BwE

Good Luck!

this is because of the new ETAP cranks. They are not the traditional 50-34, 52-36 and 53-39...

They now have a tooth or 2 less on either ring so what sram did was put a 10 in the cassettes so you still maintain the same ration on the low end

[oldpotatoe]

11-36 - I had seen someone have this work great on weight weenies, well I tried it and it was a no go for me. I could not get in the 36t properly. It would work but be clunky and make a weird noise

Chain too long or some other reason top pulley hitting cog..b limit or as you did, wolf link thing which drops the pulley away from the 36t cog.
11-34 - My other wheelset has this on, works fine of course with the ROAD LINK. I am 99% sure this would work without the road link since the 11-36T almost worked.

Depends a lot of the frame and length of der hanger.
11-32 - I was surprised to see this work flawlessly. No Road Link necessary. I put the 32T cassette on the short cage and chain wrap looks pretty good, can get into the big ring - big chainring just fine and derailleur does not seem like its screaming. Small - Small is ok too, a tiny bit of slack but totally acceptable.

See above and the 32t is about the limit for Campag short cage rear ders altho as a comparison, the 'short cage' is fairly long.
Wonder if anyone is running a 11-40 cassette... Wolftooth does not recommend it and I surely don't need such big gearing but would be interested to know.

Big maybe..depends on a lot..see above.

[oldpotatoe]

Campy has an 11-32 in the Potenza line, [B]but it's quite heavy unfortunately.

Hmm...Potenza is 260g, ultegra 11-32 is 292gr.
Gradation is not ideal in my view:

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32

ultegra is 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32

hm..middle cogs either 15-17-19 or 16-18-20 kinda a wash, IMHO..:)
The Miche options are intriguing - anyone ever tried one?

Only 10s and the shifting performance was 'disappointing'...

[oldpotatoe]

15/16/17/18/19 are a must imo in any cassette...well could be because those are the cogs I always use? :P

Then you need a 12-25...straight thru 19...then 21, 23, 25..:)

[bfd]

Never knew this cassette existed. The jumps at the top end are too much (for me) unfortunately.

OK, so Campy's 12-32 cassette has the last 3 cogs as 25-28-32 and Miche cassette cogs are 26-29-32. Very close and I bet the Campy shifts better!

At least that is my experience with Miche. I once used a Miche 9 cassette and the shifting was mediocre which with use turned to poor. But for $35, it wasn't a big deal.

Anyways, try the Miche and let us know how it works!

Good Luck!

[Clean39T]

Those cassettes are meant to be used with the new SRAM Red eTap AXS double cranksets with smaller chainrings; here is the marketing jargon from them:

Current:
53×39, 11-25/28, professional
52×36, 11-28, passionate/racer
50×34, 11-32, sporting/ casual rider

SRAM AXS:
50×37, 10-26, professional
48×35, 10-28, passionate / racer
46×33, 10-33, sporting / casual rider

I'm a passionately casual professional, so...what's SCRAM got for me???

:fight:

[fa63]

I'm a passionately casual professional, so...what's SCRAM got for me???

:fight:

48x35, 10-33? :D

[NHAero]

I put an Ultegra HG800 11-34 cassette on the Firefly on the workstand this afternoon, and it shifts fine with a new style Campy Record 11 RD, and a 50-34 on the front. I put a 12T first cog on the 11-34 on my Anderson because I don't need the 11. The Ultegra cassette has more useful gearing in the speed ranges I ride in - it's more useful to me to have the cogs be closer in the mid-cassette than to have a corncob that is 12-17, because in the 50T chainring those cogs all represent over 20 mph.
I wish there was a 46T chainring for the 4 arm Record 11 crank!

[R3awak3n]

I put an Ultegra HG800 11-34 cassette on the Firefly on the workstand this afternoon, and it shifts fine with a new style Campy Record 11 RD, and a 50-34 on the front. I put a 12T first cog on the 11-34 on my Anderson because I don't need the 11. The Ultegra cassette has more useful gearing in the speed ranges I ride in - it's more useful to me to have the cogs be closer in the mid-cassette than to have a corncob that is 12-17, because in the 50T chainring those cogs all represent over 20 mph.
I wish there was a 46T chainring for the 4 arm Record 11 crank!

I bet TA will cook something for the 4 arm campy soonish

[jc031699]

I wonder how much difference running the smaller gap in chainrings makes (46-34 instead of a compact at 50-34). Theoretically this would help your derailleur wrap more chain around the cassette, or at least take up the slack better. Could explain why the 11-32 worked with a short cage?



This is my thought too-
It’s the small jump in the front that’s important. With 50-34 and 12-28 I couldn’t use a short cage 10sp Chorus even with a road link because of too much slack in small-small. Had to move to a mid-cage Record to take up enough chain.

These are not problems on my Shimano bikes, e la vita ;)


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[oldpotatoe]

This is my thought too-
It’s the small jump in the front that’s important. With 50-34 and 12-28 I couldn’t use a short cage 10sp Chorus even with a road link because of too much slack in small-small. Had to move to a mid-cage Record to take up enough chain.

These are not problems on my Shimano bikes, e la vita ;)


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Shimano cogset? 10s Chorus, waaay back when, in the 10s dinosaur era, like 2008/9, Campag made a 12-30 and I put that on more than a few 'short' cage Chorus/Record rear ders w/o issue..so..so Campag 12-28 tho..12-30, 13-29....

?? Could be the der hanger dimensions but it 'shoulda' worked ok. Slack in small-small..did the pulley hit the cog in lowest gear? Have enough chain in big-big? Sometimes with enough chain for big-big and 'b limit' keeps top pulley off biggest cog..the small-small may be a little droopy..that's not a show stopper if the other 2 conditions are OK.

[Ralph]

it doesn't bother me if small to small is a little "droopy" or even way droopy. I sometimes have run a Campy triple crankset 30-40-50 and a short cage Campy RD with 12-30. The RD only worked on a few of the large cogs on the cassette when in the 30 ring, but that was OK, that's all I used anyway when in the small ring....just used a few of the large cassette cogs when in that 30 ring.

[jc031699]

Shimano cogset? 10s Chorus, waaay back when, in the 10s dinosaur era, like 2008/9, Campag made a 12-30 and I put that on more than a few 'short' cage Chorus/Record rear ders w/o issue..so..so Campag 12-28 tho..12-30, 13-29....

?? Could be the der hanger dimensions but it 'shoulda' worked ok. Slack in small-small..did the pulley hit the cog in lowest gear? Have enough chain in big-big? Sometimes with enough chain for big-big and 'b limit' keeps top pulley off biggest cog..the small-small may be a little droopy..that's not a show stopper if the other 2 conditions are OK.



Ha yes
Wheels Mfg conversion cassette
If no slack in small small, then can’t get into big big. If just enough for big big, slack on small small. Maybe I’m just too fussy about how small small looks.
And no I don’t cross chain...

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[oldpotatoe]

Ha yes
Wheels Mfg conversion cassette
If no slack in small small, then can’t get into big big. If just enough for big big, slack on small small. Maybe I’m just too fussy about how small small looks.
And no I don’t cross chain...

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Perhaps:)..really doesn't matter how it 'looks', what matters is how it 'works'..

[jc031699]

Perhaps:)..really doesn't matter how it 'looks', what matters is how it 'works'..



Who likes saggy? :P


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[Black Dog]

Who likes saggy? :P


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So when you said it didn't work what you meant was that it actually worked but it did not "work for you" aesthetically.

[jc031699]

So when you said it didn't work what you meant was that it actually worked but it did not "work for you" aesthetically.



If you consider the lower segment of chain hanging and the RD maximally folded with zero tension okay. Doesn’t that make it susceptible to chain drops if you backpedal? This is not just aesthetics.


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[Dave]

When the chain has slack in the small/small, that means you've exceeded the RD's wrap capacity. Keep in mind that adding 1 inch of chain allows 4 teeth more wrap, so the chain could have slack in several of the smallest cogs, if all have the normal 1T difference.

I always set the chain length in the little/little combo. If you make the chain as long as possible, with no chain slack, then you get the maximum wrap capacity from the RD.

I've used the same chain length with my road bikes for about 15 years, with 53/39, 53/39/28 and 50/34 cranks. Of course, I use the proper RD with enough cage length.

[oldpotatoe]

If you consider the lower segment of chain hanging and the RD maximally folded with zero tension okay. Doesn’t that make it susceptible to chain drops if you backpedal? This is not just aesthetics.


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Perhaps but you mentioned that you don't cross chain..so 'back-pedaling in small-small(?)..The most important things are just enough chain for big-big(no break stuff)and ability to have der adjusted so there is no top pulley to largest cog interference when in lowest gear(small ring and largest cog)..it 'may' result in some small-small droop, but as you mentioned, no cross chaining, no backpedal when in small-small..

But you said you had it sorted with a longer cage rear der..longer cage never 'hurts' anything..

[jc031699]

Perhaps but you mentioned that you don't cross chain..so 'back-pedaling in small-small(?)..The most important things are just enough chain for big-big(no break stuff)and ability to have der adjusted so there is no top pulley to largest cog interference when in lowest gear(small ring and largest cog)..it 'may' result in some small-small droop, but as you mentioned, no cross chaining, no backpedal when in small-small..



But you said you had it sorted with a longer cage rear der..longer cage never 'hurts' anything..



Yes, agreed.

As a rule I try not to give myself a chance to do something stupid like dropping the chain, even if there is only a chance when cross chained.


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[Clean39T]

Why would anyone need to ride around in a 34/11 or 34/12 gear though? On most of my bikes that would rub on the front chainring anyway..

[R3awak3n]

Why would anyone need to ride around in a 34/11 or 34/12 gear though? On most of my bikes that would rub on the front chainring anyway..

exactly. Some of the combos I am running, small small is not optimal. No sagging but if you pedal backwards sure the chain might hit the bottom of the FD cage a bit here and there. However when you are just ridding its totally fine.

I really do not care what the chain looks like in small-small since I never use it.

Big-big is a different story since I sometimes go up to it and realise right away I am cross changing and switch out of it.

[jc031699]

Why would anyone need to ride around in a 34/11 or 34/12 gear though? On most of my bikes that would rub on the front chainring anyway..



Why indeed


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[Dave]

Why would anyone need to ride around in a 34/11 or 34/12 gear though? On most of my bikes that would rub on the front chainring anyway..

I don't do it on purpose but on rolling terrain, I sometimes don't remember to shift to the big ring until I've run out of gear.

[NHAero]

Would you please expand on this, I don't have the picture yet

Thanks

Keep in mind that adding 1 inch of chain allows 4 teeth more wrap

[choke]

I bet TA will cook something for the 4 arm campy soonishThey make a 48T for it right now.

With 50-34 and 12-28 I couldn’t use a short cage 10sp Chorus even with a road link because of too much slack in small-small. Had to move to a mid-cage Record to take up enough chain.I have to agree with the others, that's odd. I'm using a 10sp Chorus short cage with a 50/34 and 13-29 with no problems...and no road link.

[Mark McM]

Would you please expand on this, I don't have the picture yet

Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Keep in mind that adding 1 inch of chain allows 4 teeth more wrap
Thanks

The math is pretty simple. Standard derailleur chain links are 1/2", so 1" of chain is two additional links.

The chain only wraps around 1/2 of the circumference of sprocket or chainring, so 2 additional teeth on a sprocket or chainring wraps up only 1 additional link of chain.

Therefore 1" of chain (2 links) wraps a total of 4 additional teeth of chainring + sprocket.

(Furthermore, derailleur chains length can only be adjusted by 2 link increments, so chainwrap is adjusted in increments of 4 teeth of wrap.)

[jc031699]

(Error)

[NHAero]

Just back from a quick 20 miler and the Record 11 medium cage RD shifts the Shimano 11-34 11 speed cassette just fine. In fact, it shifts up the cassette more crisply than it does on the Record 12-29 cassette! So I have close to 1-1/2 lower gears (29/34 ratio is 0.85), and closer cog spacing in the range I ride in. Pretty neat trick!

[d_douglas]

[QUOTE=choke;2512271]They make a 48T for it right now.

QUOTE]

I am 99% sure they make a 46t, as I was just about to buy one when I sold my bike with the Potenza group. They're not cheap, but very nice quality.

[jambee]

What would be amazing is if our favourite Italian component supplier will introduce a clutch derailleur.

This will handle all this chain slack so nicely.

[R3awak3n]

What would be amazing is if our favourite Italian component supplier will introduce a clutch derailleur.

This will handle all this chain slack so nicely.

This 100 times but then if they do will prob only be 12 speed and I am staying with 11 for a few more years.

[NHAero]

You are right! Now I have to find a source - Peter White only lists down to 48T..


[QUOTE=choke;2512271]They make a 48T for it right now.

QUOTE]

I am 99% sure they make a 46t, as I was just about to buy one when I sold my bike with the Potenza group. They're not cheap, but very nice quality.

[Ralph]

You are right! Now I have to find a source - Peter White only lists down to 48T..


[QUOTE=d_douglas;2512411]https://www.wiggle.com/ta/chain-rings/

Don't know about a 46 or 48, but I usually look here first. I've had UK places order one for me from TA.

[R3awak3n]

[QUOTE=NHAero;2512561]You are right! Now I have to find a source - Peter White only lists down to 48T..


https://www.wiggle.com/ta/chain-rings/

Don't know about a 46 or 48, but I usually look here first. I've had UK places order one for me from TA.

Call Peter, he is awesome.

I needed some rings for FSA 4 bolt and does not show on his site, called him and he ordered them for me from TA. He might already have 46T campy, he has a lot of TA stock since he is the US distributer.

[NHAero]

FWIW - they don't have at PWC, they could order it, but I figured quicker and (unfortunately) likely less expensive to go direct to Europe, so just ordered from bike-components.de. There's a 2-7 day delay so guessing this isn't in stock.

[QUOTE=Ralph;2512571]

Call Peter, he is awesome.

I needed some rings for FSA 4 bolt and does not show on his site, called him and he ordered them for me from TA. He might already have 46T campy, he has a lot of TA stock since he is the US distributer.