Shifting effort questions

[stien]

I'll start this off by saying I'm a princess when it comes to shifting. If it takes too long to execute or too much finger effort, I'm out. I like click-bang-shift-done, no hesitation.

I hated first get Etap for this reason, I think it executed the shifter when you released the button, not when you pressed it. Couldn't stand it. Di2 shifts when you press, and worked better to boot. The turning point was when I saw a guy in front of me in a race shift much faster than me using mechanical.

Fast forward and I have a frame I love (Mr Pink) that doesn't take Di2. I'd hate to get rid of it for that reason but I'm thinking about it. We also don't have unlimited budget here and round tube metal bikes with Di2 routing aren't cheap.

Now to the question:

Has anyone ridden modern Campy (11 or 12) OR 9100/8000 and still preferred it to Di2? How light is the action?

I have Veloce 10 ergos running Shimergo on my beater bike and do enjoy it, though the thumb shifter effort is a bit high. I tend to overshift. I have Red 22 on the Mr Pink and don't absolutely love doubletap when bathing in lactic acid, I tend to muck up upshifts.

[fmradio516]

What is this shimergo?!

[stien]

What is this shimergo?!

Campy 10 ergos shifting a Shimano XT RD with a Shimano 9s cassette, triple Shimano road FD with Shimano triple crank. It's on a tricross that does everything, path commutes, mtb trails, ice/snow, 150# dog trailer duty.

[fmradio516]

Campy 10 ergos shifting a Shimano XT RD with a Shimano 9s cassette, triple Shimano road FD with Shimano triple crank. It's on a tricross that does everything, path commutes, mtb trails, ice/snow, 150# dog trailer duty.

Cool. I had some sort of clue that you can mix campy shifters with a shimano drivetrain, but never gave it much thought. Pretty awesome.

The only time ive had a huge issue with shifting effort, it was because i didnt realize I needed a thin spacer behind the 10 speed cassette to take up the extra space for the 11s freehub.

[oldpotatoe]

I'll start this off by saying I'm a princess when it comes to shifting. If it takes too long to execute or too much finger effort, I'm out. I like click-bang-shift-done, no hesitation.

I hated first get Etap for this reason, I think it executed the shifter when you released the button, not when you pressed it. Couldn't stand it. Di2 shifts when you press, and worked better to boot. The turning point was when I saw a guy in front of me in a race shift much faster than me using mechanical.

Fast forward and I have a frame I love (Mr Pink) that doesn't take Di2. I'd hate to get rid of it for that reason but I'm thinking about it. We also don't have unlimited budget here and round tube metal bikes with Di2 routing aren't cheap.

Now to the question:

Has anyone ridden modern Campy (11 or 12) OR 9100/8000 and still preferred it to Di2? How light is the action?

I have Veloce 10 ergos running Shimergo on my beater bike and do enjoy it, though the thumb shifter effort is a bit high. I tend to overshift. I have Red 22 on the Mr Pink and don't absolutely love doubletap when bathing in lactic acid, I tend to muck up upshifts.

Is the Mr Pink steel? Drill that sucker and get Record EPS and never look back.

[stien]

Is the Mr Pink steel? Drill that sucker and get Record EPS and never look back.

Steel yes, I wasn’t aware that was kosher.

[R3awak3n]

Its steel, you can drill for sure.


But as far as campy, stay away from ultra shift if yout want light shifting. The beauty of campy is that the shifting feels mechanical imo, feels amazing but not what i consider light, ala shimano.

However, if you get athena or potenza which are powershift, its night and light, a lot like shimano.

[oldpotatoe]

Steel yes, I wasn’t aware that was kosher.

Drilled my Merckx, saw a Ciocc that was EPS-terrific...

[Mark McM]

Me, I've got different preferences. I don't want the shifter action to be too light. I don't want to shift when I touch a button/lever by accident, or to have vague shifting points in a multi-shift lever movements. I prefer a solid, very positive "click". Or in the case of multiple sprocket shifts, I want the lever to move a very specific number of "clicks".

On the other hand, I also want the shifting to be fast and low friction, and to happen as near to instantaneous with the lever movement as possible. That's why I prefer Campagnolo Ultrashift - the derailleur moves in synchronous with the lever, so shifts are fast and direct. Multi-sprocket shifts just require moving the lever an additional click or two, so they aren't much slower than single sprocket shifts.

Finally, to decrease shift action drag and improve speed and precision, I've been using Gore sealed cable systems*. These systems are a bit more expensive and a little more complicated to install, but they improve shifting dramatically. They substantially reduce total shift lever force, so the force at the lever is predominantly the detent spring force, improving lever feedback, and ensure lever movement translate more directly to derailleur movement. And because the cables travel in totally sealed sheaths, they keep their performance for longer than "open" cable systems.


*Sadly, Gore stopped making these systems, but there are still plenty on the shelves if you want to look for them. SRAM and Jagwire currently sell their own sealed low friction systems, which are very good, although not quite as good as the original Gore systems.

[hankchong]

Campy 10 ergos shifting a Shimano XT RD with a Shimano 9s cassette, triple Shimano road FD with Shimano triple crank. It's on a tricross that does everything, path commutes, mtb trails, ice/snow, 150# dog trailer duty.

Just curious, @stien (and others). Are you using a 9sp cassette or 8sp cassette with 10sp ergos and Shimano RD? I've used 10sp ergos with older Shimano RDs (8/9sp) on an 8sp Shimano cassette with great results. Is it the case I can run a 9sp Shimano cassette with equally good results?

[stien]

Just curious, @stien (and others). Are you using a 9sp cassette or 8sp cassette with 10sp ergos and Shimano RD? I've used 10sp ergos with older Shimano RDs (8/9sp) on an 8sp Shimano cassette with great results. Is it the case I can run a 9sp Shimano cassette with equally good results?

Don’t quote me but I think you just have to turn the rd cable clamp to run 9s. Yeah I’m on 9 Shimano cassettes. Look up “hubbub cable clamp”.

[weisan]

https://artispin.wordpress.com/hubbubs-original-shimergo-solution/

[CaptStash]

Why not Di2 with an external battery on the Mr. Pink? If you take your time, you can do a nice install that hides the wires on the bottom of the down tube. I did that with my Blue AC1 and it came out pretty well. You have a couple of options on the battery location. My bike is big enough that I had room to hang it below the down tube bottle holder.

CaptStash....

[benb]

All City bikes are supposed to be practical & everyday, not much practical about Di2 IMO.

Stick something simple & mechanical on it.

I am totally on board with Mark McM here, haven't tried eTap or the electronic Campy stuff but if they are more vague than Di2/Ui2 the "feel" can't be there for me.

I even find Di2/Ui2 to lack feel and feels like it has latency. I don't really care if the review websites tell me I have to like it or the Pros are being paid to ride it.

And really does a $2000 groupset belong on a $500 frameset when a sub-$1000 mechanical group will be just fine?

The electronic groups would be better IMO if they mimic'ed the feel of the mechanical groups more... get the feel of the mechanical group without the maintenance tasks of cables. I'm still not sure it'd be worth dealing with batteries for me though.

[stien]

This thread is a little dated guys. I now have two new frames waiting to built. Both with di2.

The all city remains built with mechanical red 22...

FWIW I find di2 has less latency than Etap, and I pieced the group together for next to nothing.

[hankchong]

Don’t quote me but I think you just have to turn the rd cable clamp to run 9s. Yeah I’m on 9 Shimano cassettes. Look up “hubbub cable clamp”.



Ah, yes. Hubbub. Will give it a try. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Louis]

The turning point was when I saw a guy in front of me in a race shift much faster than me using mechanical.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2318/5263/products/CRD10113b_CT_01_1024x1024.jpg?v=1543098038

[oldpotatoe]

All City bikes are supposed to be practical & everyday, not much practical about Di2 IMO.

Stick something simple & mechanical on it.

I am totally on board with Mark McM here, haven't tried eTap or the electronic Campy stuff but if they are more vague than Di2/Ui2 the "feel" can't be there for me.

I even find Di2/Ui2 to lack feel and feels like it has latency. I don't really care if the review websites tell me I have to like it or the Pros are being paid to ride it.

And really does a $2000 groupset belong on a $500 frameset when a sub-$1000 mechanical group will be just fine?

The electronic groups would be better IMO if they mimic'ed the feel of the mechanical groups more... get the feel of the mechanical group without the maintenance tasks of cables. I'm still not sure it'd be worth dealing with batteries for me though.

Campagnolo EPS does, by design. The shift levers 'click'...