OT: (Patriots) Kraft charged with soliciting

[makoti]

It'll be interesting to see how they treat an owner vs the players.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-n974611

[rwsaunders]

I wonder if he was partying with Gronk?

[joosttx]

Geez, another inflate-gate...


Also, $79 for an hour “massage” seems cheap as a normal massage is around $125/hr out here.

[John H.]

Remember when the same thing happened to Jerry Rice?
He was in a massage parlor that got busted or something.
Jerry said he was there for the "therapeutic massage".

Local media and Niners PR team did a great job of quickly sweeping it under the rung to save the image of an icon-
But this was before social media. Harder to get away with it now.

[Bruce K]

Elderly widower who was madly in love with his wife, Myra.

Compared to the wife beaters, murders, etc the NFL allows to play, this seems like small potatoes.

Unless there is a lot more to the story...

BK

[Jaybee]

I've got no issue with what two consenting adults choose to do but this appears to be part of a sex trafficking operation (https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/21/human-trafficking-florida-massage-parlors-vero-beach-sebastian/2920354002/).

Ugh.

Eff Kraft and everyone else who perpetuates this bull**** forever.

[pinkshogun]

I thought Kraft's girlfriend was even younger than Belickek's girlfriend....whats the need to stray

[joosttx]

I've got no issue with what two consenting adults choose to do but this appears to be part of a sex trafficking operation.

Ugh.

Eff Kraft and everyone else who perpetuates this bull**** forever.

That’s the issue for me. Sex workers / sex trafficking are very different IMO.

[prototoast]

That’s the issue for me. Sex workers / sex trafficking are very different IMO.

I agree that this is the dark turn to the story, but a serious (naive) question for anyone who might have some idea -- would it be obvious for someone like Kraft, or any other patron of an establishment like this, whether the workers were fully consenting, or were somehow being coerced?

[45K10]

I agree that this is the dark turn to the story, but a serious (naive) question for anyone who might have some idea -- would it be obvious for someone like Kraft, or any other patron of an establishment like this, whether the workers were fully consenting, or were somehow being coerced?

A. Prostitution is illegal, period
B. You have to know that going to someplace like that the women who are preforming the acts are more than likely being pressured into doing so.
C. Kraft is a self absorbed jerk who has been drinking his own Kool-Aid and got busted

[gemship]

Elderly widower who was madly in love with his wife, Myra.

Compared to the wife beaters, murders, etc the NFL allows to play, this seems like small potatoes.

Unless there is a lot more to the story...

BK

I dunno Bruce, so what exactly is this human trafficking charge? Seems like really bad publicity either way. Heck I'd rather have LA's rap than these charges that Kraft is facing. I don't wanna insinuate that I stand on high moral ground but I guess that's just it. Prostitution is one of those highly immoral things. At times it can draw parallels to the war against drugs but for a lot of folks its just a very heinous act against family values, the value of human life. At any rate he's not guilty yet but this doesn't look good. Not for him, the team or the sport.

[XXtwindad]

I've got no issue with what two consenting adults choose to do but this appears to be part of a sex trafficking operation (https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/21/human-trafficking-florida-massage-parlors-vero-beach-sebastian/2920354002/).

Ugh.

Eff Kraft and everyone else who perpetuates this bull**** forever.

Agreed. Verbatim.

[unterhausen]

Not saying it's not true sometimes, but prostitution and human trafficking are being conflated with each other all the time now. They drove sex workers off of CL and this has generally been bad. We should legalize it and license sex workers and quit pretending that it's a big deal if handled properly.

[Jaybee]

Not saying it's not true sometimes, but prostitution and human trafficking are being conflated with each other all the time now. They drove sex workers off of CL and this has generally been bad. We should legalize it and license sex workers and quit pretending that it's a big deal if handled properly.

With you 100%.

Sex work is real work and it should be legalized. A lot of the social bad and exploitation that surrounds prostitution is because it is seen as something that can only happen in dark alleys and seedy establishments.

That said, it isn't legal in most US places yet, some percentage of sex workers are trafficked/coerced, and it seems like a good person who was choosing to engage here would take some steps to be sure they were dealing with a legit sex worker and not providing a demand for human trafficking. No moral pass here for Kraft or anyone else caught up in this bust.

[Jaybee]

This is an ancillary concern to that of the trafficking victims, but if the NFL can essentially force out Jerry Richardson for being a bat**** crazy racist lecher, can they also push Kraft out?

Gotta protect the image of the league, concussions be damned.

[Bruce K]

I did n’t know all the details

Still waiting

If I understand the stories so far, the investigation was into human trafficking but has been charged with 2 misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution.

To me, based on the charges, at worst, he is a John who got busted in a much larger investigation. Not smart, if true, but not sure it brings him to the level of human trafficker.

Again, I’ll wait for details, but let’s lay off his deceased wife.

BK

[45K10]

This is an ancillary concern to that of the trafficking victims, but if the NFL can essentially force out Jerry Richardson for being a bat**** crazy racist lecher, can they also push Kraft out?

Gotta protect the image of the league, concussions be damned.

It's okay, he'll get a presidential pardon

[Bruce K]

Let’s leave politics out of this.

There’s enough to discuss as it is.

BK

[XXtwindad]

Not saying it's not true sometimes, but prostitution and human trafficking are being conflated with each other all the time now. They drove sex workers off of CL and this has generally been bad. We should legalize it and license sex workers and quit pretending that it's a big deal if handled properly.

Yep.

[prototoast]

B. You have to know that going to someplace like that the women who are preforming the acts are more than likely being pressured into doing so.

This is what I'm asking. How do you know this? How would he know this? I am naive. I've never gone to a day spa, I've never paid for a legitimate massage, I've never paid for sex, I just don't know about these things. How does one know this?

[XXtwindad]

I dunno Bruce, so what exactly is this human trafficking charge? Seems like really bad publicity either way. Heck I'd rather have LA's rap than these charges that Kraft is facing. I don't wanna insinuate that I stand on high moral ground but I guess that's just it. Prostitution is one of those highly immoral things. At times it can draw parallels to the war against drugs but for a lot of folks its just a very heinous act against family values, the value of human life. At any rate he's not guilty yet but this doesn't look good. Not for him, the team or the sport.

With all due respect, gemship, "family values" has been used to persecute many different groups of people. I cringe when I hear that term.

[FlashUNC]

Bahahahahahahaha.

Worth $6 billion and he can't find a decent escort? C'mon man.

Patriots have a problem with getting caught with stuff on tape after all.

[bthornt]

Gettin' his freak on at 77? Good for him, but otherwise I can't get worked up about it.

[Elefantino]

It's okay, he'll get a presidential pardon
State crime, so no.

That aside, the NFL mandates that its cheerleaders act as de facto escorts at team functions, so no, the league won't do anything.

[72gmc]

I find it hard to believe the Florida police chief is "stunned."

[Dave B]

I never understood how prostitution is illegal and porn isn't. So if you have a place to have sex and people filming it and hanging around it is ok? All participants in Porn are paid to have sex.

Truly how is it different than prostitution? Would it be legal if they filmed it?


Sex trafficking is sick. When the super bowl was in Indy I spoke with several detectives and they estimated that during events like this it is common for something like 200K women are bought and sold during these massive sporting events.

I simply cannot fathom how this can happen. Granted I work with 12 year olds, so my world revolves around the stupid Kardashians and which sports star is the best.

I know there are sick men and women out there, but to buy a child for the purpose...well buying a person is still incredibly sickening. I don't know how folks become wired to be able to do that.

[Dave B]

State crime, so no.

That aside, the NFL mandates that its cheerleaders act as de facto escorts at team functions, so no, the league won't do anything.

I was unaware of this. I thought it was an NFL rule that cheerleaders and players are not to interact at all. Unless they are escorts for non-player types.

[Elefantino]

I was unaware of this. I thought it was an NFL rule that cheerleaders and players are not to interact at all. Unless they are escorts for non-player types.

The latter. The non-player, big-money types.

[Jaybee]

I was unaware of this. I thought it was an NFL rule that cheerleaders and players are not to interact at all. Unless they are escorts for non-player types.

Big money season ticket holders, friends of ownership, that sort of thing.

Here is one nauseating example. (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/sports/redskins-cheerleaders-nfl.html)

[sitzmark]

Big money season ticket holders, friends of ownership, that sort of thing.

Here is one nauseating example. (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/sports/redskins-cheerleaders-nfl.html)

There was never any evidence of forced sexual relations associated with that incident. The semi-private photoshoot was questionable judgement, but the after-hours attendance at a team function is not out of the ordinary. I've certainly been at a number of functions where I didn't really want to be but my presence was "expected" as company management. As team representatives the cheerleaders fill a similar role.

It has been a (very) long time, but I dated a KC cheerleader in college and never saw evidence of any mistreatment/inappropriate expectations of the cheerleaders. My roommate was a KU cheerleader (male) and the crew male/female were often around - for sure a party crowd, but again no evidence of females being pressured to engage in anything inappropriate.

I guess one could ask why cheerleaders are even part of the game - whatever the sporting event. It's a fair question. But if men/women are going to accept those roles as public representatives of the organization, then interfacing with the public is part of the schtick.

As far a Kraft ... not enough public information to know what the real story is. The good news is that the women have been rescued from that situation.

[buddybikes]

Agree should be legalized. However bringing girls in from 3rd world settings with a promise they will have a better life, then slaving them in a hell hole of a place is totally different. This will hopefully, from society perspective, expose this horrific places.

If he had paid 2,000 for high class independent, no big deal

Hope he transfers team to Jonathan Kraft who appears to have all his marbles

This from a Pats fan.

[pdmtong]

Remember when the same thing happened to Jerry Rice?
He was in a massage parlor that got busted or something.
Jerry said he was there for the "therapeutic massage". Local media and Niners PR team did a great job of quickly sweeping it under the rung to save the image of an icon- But this was before social media. Harder to get away with it now.
Jerry was in a parlour on el camino in mountain view at 2am or so. glad someone besides me remembers that. and yes, it quickly got swept under the rug.
Elderly widower who was madly in love with his wife, Myra.
Compared to the wife beaters, murders, etc the NFL allows to play, this seems like small potatoes. Unless there is a lot more to the story...
BK
small potatoes? the OWNER of the most successful franchise in NFL history (yes, I said it) allegedly on tape and now two counts? even IF he actually did nothing, what is he doing there in the first place?

[FlashUNC]

Jerry was in a parlour on el camino in mountain view at 2am or so. glad someone besides me remembers that. and yes, it quickly got swept under the rug.

small potatoes? the OWNER of the most successful franchise in NFL history (yes, I said it) allegedly on tape and now two counts? even IF he actually did nothing, what is he doing there in the first place?

This is the team that employed a guy who murdered three people. So....solicitation probably is small potatoes by that comparison.

[makoti]

Again, I’ll wait for details, but let’s lay off his deceased wife.

BK

No one brought up his wife except you. I agree she's not an issue in this.
Even if it's just solicitation, it's bad for the image. Until sex work becomes legal, it will most often NOT a victimless crime. It should be legal, because it isn't going to be stopped. It should be regulated, with safe zones for the workers.

[pdmtong]

This is the team that employed a guy who murdered three people. So....solicitation probably is small potatoes by that comparison. I partially watched a replay of the 2002 SB and it was eerie to see 81 on the field.

[joosttx]

This is the team that employed a guy who murdered three people. So....solicitation probably is small potatoes by that comparison.

just another example of a Patriot illegally deflating his balls.....

[unterhausen]

I wanted to add this to the end of the "say it ain't so, Bill" thread, but this thread was posted before I could do that.

Doesn't Kraft have friends that could hook him up with an escort? Never been my impression that going to a parlor is a good idea.

[Bruce K]

Makoti - one of the posts just before that one said some about Kraft’s wife being none too happy.

I didn’t make it up.

BK

[nickl]

Let’s leave politics out of this.

There’s enough to discuss as it is.

BK

More about hypocrisy than politics, but the two are inextricably linked during these interesting times.

[Vientomas]

Dude has enough cabbage to go anywhere in the world to satisfy his urges (many places where it is legal), but selects a day spa in a strip mall in Florida. Not once, but twice. Exceedingly poor judgment.

As for the comment about good on him for being 77 and getting his freak on. That's BS. A crime is a crime.

[djg21]

Bahahahahahahaha.

Worth $6 billion and he can't find a decent escort? C'mon man.

Patriots have a problem with getting caught with stuff on tape after all.

This is why I’m not quite buying the story. If Kraft wanted to obtain services from a prostitute, you’d think he’d avoid a sleazy rub-and-tug in a strip mall and patronize a high-end escort. There supposedly is a video recording that will be offered into evidence. We will have to see.

[gemship]

With all due respect, gemship, "family values" has been used to persecute many different groups of people. I cringe when I hear that term.

I just couldn't think I of a better way of putting it but I do think it's on point. Morality is a powerful thing.

[gemship]

This has been on the local news channels here in Ma. all afternoon. They're a riot with legal analyst and such speculating about this being a police investigation for months. They implied months of evidence but that the news, sad.

[gdw]

I doubt that this story will have the happing ending that Mr Kraft prefers.

[gemship]

I doubt that this story will have the happing ending that Mr Kraft prefers.

:banana::p:banana:

[Bruce K]

No matter the outcome, the fact that his name is attached to this is sad, embarrassing, and unnecessary.

Poor judgement at a minimum that will leave folks questioning him for the rest of his life.

BK

[verticaldoug]

I find it hard to believe the Florida police chief is "stunned."

Considering Palm Beach is also the home of the Jeffrey Epstein crimes.

Unfortunately for Kraft, since the mishandling of Jeffrey Epstein crimes have been front and center lately, I doubt a billionaire will get special treatment a second time.

More importantly, does Goodell get a second bite of the apple since Kraft and Brady played hard ball with him on deflategate? :bike:

[cmg]

From the news report.

But that's not all.

Detectives watched the Orlando couple transport multiple women with suitcases to and from the spa, "for the purpose of sexual servitude," according to her arrest warrant.

Police said victims, identified in court records as Jane Does, lived inside the spas and worked as prostitutes. Some stayed for days, others for months.

None were allowed to leave on their own. They did not have their own vehicles and generally spoke Mandarin or Cantonese, not English.
many came from China on temporary work visas, indebted to the the brokers who helped them reach America, but believing legitimate jobs awaited them.

"Some of them are trying to make a better life for themselves," he said. "These people truly are stuck."

They were shamed, intimidated and taught not to speak to law enforcement or immigration officials

So if your getting a massage from someone who doesn't speak English be aware. Sometimes the desire exceeds the concern for others well being. Florida allows the production of pornography. Cops must have followed the money.

[redir]

I don't see how legalizing sex work would make it any less victimized. Porn is legal technically and most of the women involved in it are victimized in one way or another.

[Jaybee]

Considering Palm Beach is also the home of the Jeffrey Epstein crimes.

Unfortunately for Kraft, since the mishandling of Jeffrey Epstein crimes have been front and center lately, I doubt a billionaire will get special treatment a second time.

More importantly, does Goodell get a second bite of the apple since Kraft and Brady played hard ball with him on deflategate? :bike:

If there is one thing I'm sure of, it's that Goodell will find some way to make this worse than it already is.

Irsay got 6 months and $500k fine for a drug charge from the league. Surely this is worth more? Surely the league can't look the other way after taking hard line stances against misbehaving players (or surely the NFLPA would raise a stink)?

Then again, Kraft is probably the most powerful NFL owner and maybe one of the 4 or 5 most powerful people in American sports.

[cmg]

I don't see how legalizing sex work would make it any less victimized. Porn is legal technically and most of the women involved in it are victimized in one way or another.

If the spa owners had hired the workers or the workers had a union rather than enslaving them would it be any better? It's a difficult line to define, what is exploitation and what isn't. The workers didn't recognize him as anything other than a regular john who paid the going rate.

[93KgBike]

The locale where Bob Kraft and 25 others were arrested for soliciting to buy sexual congress from young women and men is a brothel, euphemistically referred to as a spa, sandwiched among a surf shop, a nail salon, a game room and a Thai restaurant, []believed to be tied to an international human-trafficking and prostitution ring extending to New York and to China. (https://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/20190222/robert-kraft-patriots-owner-among-those-charged-with-soliciting-prostitutes-as-part-of-alleged-human-trafficking-ring)

[GregL]

So if your getting a massage from someone who doesn't speak English be aware. Sometimes the desire exceeds the concern for others well being. Florida allows the production of pornography. Cops must have followed the money.

I don't see how legalizing sex work would make it any less victimized. Porn is legal technically and most of the women involved in it are victimized in one way or another.
If you want an insight into the porn industry, watch the Netflix documentary "Hot Girls Wanted." I watched some of it before becoming so disgusted I could not complete viewing the film. While they may be legal in some locales, the porn and prostitution industries exist on the backs of exploited persons. No one who works in those industries, even legally and of their own accord, escapes without scars.

Greg

[wc1934]

I wanted to add this to the end of the "say it ain't so, Bill" thread, but this thread was posted before I could do that.

Doesn't Kraft have friends that could hook him up with an escort? Never been my impression that going to a parlor is a good idea.

Me too - except I was going to write - say it ain't so Bob. Bill gets a pass on this one (as far as we know).

[unterhausen]

we can blame everything on Bill, I'm sure he's done something bad that we don't know about.


The sex workers on CL were working for themselves. Porn actors are working for someone else. I think there is a big difference.

[echappist]

This is why I’m not quite buying the story. If Kraft wanted to obtain services from a prostitute, you’d think he’d avoid a sleazy rub-and-tug in a strip mall and patronize a high-end escort. There supposedly is a video recording that will be offered into evidence. We will have to see.

funny, i seem to recall a TV-series in which a man who somewhat resembles the appearance of Mr. Kraft received talking to re: usage of knocking shops that understand discretion.

https://p9prkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mit56OMwHc2xo4p_5d8JIU2LehhrKpqEJR8Q10qsCEO50Qj-c9ik0wyk11aosjzmEWCLH1BxDM7fek3S9CJdFDOHJs8z1_ESGN IhZl3oEnrMVE_3_pzxgxPJz2Z4OQRPYyDSBSSf54lgQHFvsajU _xrTsm7L-QC3v1BdStO2fi6B1lYVT6TuAOnc3-twDc-Kn-huNw-IjEQd4KYNl9MC6Mg?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none

[Ozz]

I find it hard to believe the Florida police chief is "stunned."

Yes, "stunned, stunned..."

[wc1934]

According to UPI's Al Butler, Kraft is 'not the biggest name involved' in this case.
Anyone seen Donald lately?

[peanutgallery]

He has a problem...in more ways than one now

A cat dripping with that much cash and access doesn't have to work that hard to run the ladies. But women in, basically, indentured servitude? That's just plain wierd and somewhat disgusting

He should have stuck to partying with Gronk

[echappist]

Me too - except I was going to write - say it ain't so Bob. Bill gets a pass on this one (as far as we know).

how long before Columbia U decides to sever ties? He apparently donated quite a bit, so that the football stadium is renamed for him

[unterhausen]

According to UPI's Al Butler, Kraft is 'not the biggest name involved' in this case.
this is the kind of rumor that's fun to talk about, but almost never pans out. Dunno who would be a bigger name than Kraft, Murdoch?

Maybe this is what he is talking about, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/buyout-pioneer-john-childs-charged-in-florida-prostitution-sting

Buyout pioneer John Childs. Not exactly a household name though?

Well, how about ex-Citi COO John Havens? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/ex-citigroup-president-havens-caught-up-in-prostitution-probe?utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business

Must have been the billionaire's night out

[wc1934]

how long before Columbia U decides to sever ties? He apparently donated quite a bit, so that the football stadium is renamed for him

Robert Kraft Field at Lawrence Wien Stadium.
I know - he gave something like 5 mill. But UGH - the Lions still have a loosing record each year.

[cgolvin]

I doubt that this story will have the happing ending that Mr Kraft prefers.


I think headline writers across the country are now rooting for NE to win next year's super bowl so they can use this one:

Super Bowl Win Gives Pats Owner Another Happy Ending


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdmtong]

He has a problem...in more ways than one now

A cat dripping with that much cash and access doesn't have to work that hard to run the ladies. But women in, basically, indentured servitude? That's just plain wierd and somewhat disgusting

He should have stuck to partying with Gronk

the hubris of wealth. he is not the first nor will he be the last.

[Jeff N.]

Totally not giving an aeronautical intercourse.

[Jaybee]

the hubris of wealth. he is not the first nor will he be the last.

He’s not even the only billionaire!

John Havens (former COO of Citigroup) and John Childs (big hedge fund player) are caught up in this as well.

All these guys have the means to hire a discreet professional who isn’t being held against her will or fly their private jet somewhere that sex work is legal. So why a seedy massage parlor in a strip mall? It can’t be because they really just wanted to hit the Subway/TCBY a couple doors down afterward. There’s some weird creepy sex/power **** going on here.

[Louis]

It'll be interesting to see how they treat an owner vs the players.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-n974611

Makoti, when I heard the news I thought of the forum and hoped that whoever started a thread about Kraft would name the thread:

"Patriots Again - Say it Ain't so Robert" ;)

[Climb01742]

Some pretty famous athletes live in Jupiter, FLA.

[josephr]

Elderly widower who was madly in love with his wife, Myra.

Compared to the wife beaters, murders, etc the NFL allows to play, this seems like small potatoes.

BK

like we need another reason to not watch pro football? its boring except for the last 2 minutes of each half and the drama is out the roof. I started loosing respect when the guy can get up and run with the ball even though he's flippin' down. Its been downhill ever since and its a joke of game at this point.

[Peter P.]

...
A cat dripping with that much cash and access doesn't have to work that hard to run the ladies. But women in, basically, indentured servitude? That's just plain wierd ...

No it's not.

Some people do (insert crime here) for the thrill of the potential of being caught.

[sipmeister]

Yeah, Jeff Bezos will go from richest man to something like 5th richest person in the world because he let one of his organs (not the brain) lead the way. As Grandpappy Kokanee used to say over a campfire way up in the Canadian woods, sipping a beverage of choice over a snappin' campfire, "Keep your p....ker in your pants."
And I'm guessing the more money, popularity and power you have, the more temptation will come at you.

[oldpotatoe]

I thought Kraft's girlfriend was even younger than Belickek's girlfriend....whats the need to stray

No kidding, the guy is worth how much? Just buy a harem...But to go to a 'massage parlor'..nutz!!

[peanutgallery]

He should have read the reviews

https://nypost.com/2019/02/22/online-reviews-blast-spa-where-robert-kraft-allegedly-solicited-prostitutes/

[rwsaunders]

The article indicates that it’s unlikely that the NFL will punish or sanction Kraft because the “incidents” didn’t take place in the workplace and that the charges are for misdemeanor crimes, regardless of the fact that the owners of the spa have been arrested for human trafficking. Jerry Richardson paid a $2.75M fine for workplace misconduct and eventually sold the Panthers. It sounds like the Kraft event is already being set in motion as being no big deal.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/kraft-charges-unlikely-to-draw-league-wrath-nfl-adviser-says

[GregL]

And I'm guessing the more money, popularity and power you have, the more temptation will come at you.
And the more likely you will feel entitled to succumb to that temptation. My father was a serial womanizer who had some wealth and power on a local scale. During one of his rare introspective moments, he told me that big egos with big ambitions often feel that they are above conventional rules and feel completely justified in their indiscretions. It was definitely a light bulb moment in our relationship as it underscored our differences.

Greg

[oldpotatoe]

During one of his rare introspective moments, he told me that big egos with big ambitions often feel that they are above conventional rules and feel completely justified in their indiscretions

I won't even say it....BUT.......:eek:

Birds of a feather...

[unterhausen]

Birds of a feather...
I suspect one of these extremely rich guys talked the others into going. Doubt we will ever know. "dangit John"

[campy man]

I might have missed the details but how do the police know those charged with solicitation actually had sex or engaged in illegal behavior? Did an undercover officer pose as a masseuse in a sting?

Maybe a Paceliner involved in law enforcement or the judiciary system can explain :confused:

[prototoast]

I might have missed the details but how do the police know those charged with solicitation actually had sex or engaged in illegal behavior? Did an undercover officer pose as a masseuse in a sting?


There are reports that there is video...

[GregL]

I might have missed the details but how do the police know those charged with solicitation actually had sex or engaged in illegal behavior? Did an undercover officer pose as a masseuse in a sting?

Maybe a Paceliner involved in law enforcement or the judiciary system can explain :confused:
"Video footage shows him receiving "paid acts" in a room at the spa and surveillance video shows him being driven to the spa" (https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/22/us/robert-kraft-solicitation/index.html)

[joosttx]

"Video footage shows him receiving "paid acts" in a room at the spa and surveillance video shows him being driven to the spa" (https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/22/us/robert-kraft-solicitation/index.html)

I just vomited a little in my mouth

[laupsi]

money, privilage, notoriety does not equal class and not because the fee was a measly $75. the value put forth into those things important in life, non-existent.

[Red Tornado]

A. Prostitution is illegal, period
B. You have to know that going to someplace like that the women who are preforming the acts are more than likely being pressured into doing so.
C. Kraft is a self absorbed jerk who has been drinking his own Kool-Aid and got busted

Agree, for the most part.

1. Yes, absolutely. Whether it should/shouldn't be illegal, as some here have contended, doesn't matter in THIS conversation. He broke the law willingly. Until the law is changed - guilty of engaging in prostitution.

2. Yes, sort of. To go a bit further, two concepts I've conveyed to my children over the years.
A) Understand what you're getting yourself into.
B) Consider the consequences of your actions.
Def not saying every "establishment" like that is involved in trafficking (probably many are not), but there's always the risk and it has to be weighed in the decision. He's a grown a** man, he had to have known the risk. With all the sex trafficking busts these days, how does that not at least cross your mind? Probably wasn't thinking with his brain, if you know what I mean.

3. Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say unless you know the guy. I'll admit it seems like a lot of pro athletes/Hollywood elite/politicians/and some of "the wealthiest 1%" think they're above the law or a different set of rules apply to them. Also could have been he got caught in a weak moment. I'll agree with others that with his wealth/power/prestige there had to be a better/safer way to go about this than the route he chose.

At the very least I wish he had a little more variety in his closet. Seems like he wears the same color of shirt/tie/jacket all the time.

[Hawker]

I won't even say it....BUT.......:eek:

Birds of a feather...

Are we talking football or that other sport....?

[zmudshark]

The place had a 2.5 Yelp rating. Geez. You'd think a rich guy would choose a place with a solid 4.

[pdmtong]

I too had the reaction of yeesh, that place?

But that kind of place is exactly where he probably inended to go. Once inside, he is just an old white-haired guy. and given the nature/origin of service providers he will not be recognized.

The police had to have mapped out their sting to hold up in court for anyone, but imagine their shock when the net caught a whale. and of course blasting his name shines a brighter light on this than john smith nobody.

[Jaybee]

...

At the very least I wish he had a little more variety in his closet. Seems like he wears the same color of shirt/tie/jacket all the time.

There's a high correlation between a contrast collar and certain flavor of douchebaggery (https://www.mensjournal.com/style/the-5-guys-who-try-and-fail-to-pull-of-the-contrast-collar-20140811/).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2wSpN9hvUYA/Ue6lnYeoDEI/AAAAAAAAApc/oI9NQnoQK3Q/s1600/robert-kraft-2011-nfl-new-england-patriots-30w3vR.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ccrpbtCSXd4/V0uFtwcrH3I/AAAAAAAATRU/kcdp0miyEVwkl7RPzfxiMzKz9quLzrhKwCLcB/s640/better-call-saul-howard-hamlin-character-grenadine-tie-club-collar-suits-style-chic-trends-office-menswear.jpg

https://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/mj-618_348_villains-of-the-contrast-collar.jpg?w=618&h=348&crop=1

Apologies to any of the fine members here who might wear contrast collars.

[verticaldoug]

You shouldn't equate this with womanizing. You first need to consider if reports are correct these woman are Chinese brought here via human trafficking for work. This is organized crime preying on the weakest and most vulnerable in society. (oh, you don't want to turn tricks, we can hurt your parents, or we will take your little sister. etc etc ) Maybe Kraft just wanted a prostitution thing, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out if the young asian woman speaks no english that this may be a really bad situation. (The fact he went back means he really didn't give a damn.) I hope he rots for that. Because of the human trafficking element, I hope Goodell hammers him. The NFL ends players careers for domestic violence, this is just as bad in my opinion regardless of how the law classifies it. (Let that sink in, you paid a woman who was trafficked for sex from a foreign country. )

[laupsi]

You shouldn't equate this with womanizing. You first need to consider if reports are correct these woman are Chinese brought here via human trafficking for work. This is organized crime preying on the weakest and most vulnerable in society. (oh, you don't want to turn tricks, we can hurt your parents, or we will take your little sister. etc etc ) Maybe Kraft just wanted a prostitution thing, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out if the young asian woman speaks no english that this may be a really bad situation. (The fact he went back means he really didn't give a damn.) I hope he rots for that. Because of the human trafficking element, I hope Goodell hammers him. The NFL ends players careers for domestic violence, this is just as bad in my opinion regardless of how the law classifies it. (Let that sink in, you paid a woman who was trafficked for sex from a foreign country. )

Thank You!

[cd_davis]

Live on North Shore MA, am disgusted by the incident regardless of the final facts/evidence. Appreciated reading all the previous comments. Would make a great live feed on CNN, Fox, or you chose the channel. Better commentary than from the majority of broadcast "journalists" we must watch.

[echappist]

There's a high correlation between a contrast collar and certain flavor of douchebaggery (https://www.mensjournal.com/style/the-5-guys-who-try-and-fail-to-pull-of-the-contrast-collar-20140811/).

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ccrpbtCSXd4/V0uFtwcrH3I/AAAAAAAATRU/kcdp0miyEVwkl7RPzfxiMzKz9quLzrhKwCLcB/s640/better-call-saul-howard-hamlin-character-grenadine-tie-club-collar-suits-style-chic-trends-office-menswear.jpg

Apologies to any of the fine members here who might wear contrast collars.

that's whom he should hire to set up his off-shore tax shelters

this is the guy he needs, a real criminal attorney

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/6c/b2/1e/6cb21e34bc4323f7d8d82a6187f6d06d--braking-bad-saul-goodman.jpg

[unterhausen]

I forgot he wears those shirts. Now I say burn him!

Florida has some of the most extensive freedom of information laws in the country, so the videos are going to be public

[Louis]

I forgot he wears those shirts. Now I say burn him!

'es a witch!!! (or should I say, 'es a warlock!)

He may claim that the mob put that shirt on him, in which case we'll have to use a more scientific method to determine his guilt.

[dancinkozmo]

the place had a 2.5 yelp rating. Geez. You'd think a rich guy would choose a place with a solid 4.
lol !!!

[rwsaunders]

Day Spa “visit” in the morning and off on the private jet for a playoff game in KC in the afternoon...time management at its finest.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2019/02/25/robert-kraft-update

[buddybikes]

So his "getting off" (like that pun?) is that no price negotiation took place he got a massage then had a girlfriend(s) post massage which isn't illegal. He just gave them an uninitiated friends money transfer.

[oldpotatoe]

Also could have been he got caught in a weak moment

That's pretty funny(not laugh funny but really? Funny)..this isn't the first time he has done this sort of slimy thing..he's a wealthy, entitled turd who thinks he's above the law, like others of his ilk(some he even knows...)..and he got caught..

[cash05458]

I swear the older I get that that Hawthorn story, The Scarlett Letter, rings more and more true about america...the moral "outrage"...when you consider what is going on in this country via a myriad of terrible things, some old guy getting his happy finish down at some strip mall is the least of our worries...

[Ozz]

I swear the older I get that that Hawthorn story, The Scarlett Letter, rings more and more true about america...the moral "outrage"...when you consider what is going on in this country via a myriad of terrible things, some old guy getting his happy finish down at some strip mall is the least of our worries...

The old guy getting a "happy ending" is not the point of the "outrage"....it is the human trafficking aspect of it...which I would include in your "myriad of terrible things" we should be worried about.

[azrider]

There's a high correlation between a contrast collar and certain flavor of douchebaggery (https://www.mensjournal.com/style/the-5-guys-who-try-and-fail-to-pull-of-the-contrast-collar-20140811/).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2wSpN9hvUYA/Ue6lnYeoDEI/AAAAAAAAApc/oI9NQnoQK3Q/s1600/robert-kraft-2011-nfl-new-england-patriots-30w3vR.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ccrpbtCSXd4/V0uFtwcrH3I/AAAAAAAATRU/kcdp0miyEVwkl7RPzfxiMzKz9quLzrhKwCLcB/s640/better-call-saul-howard-hamlin-character-grenadine-tie-club-collar-suits-style-chic-trends-office-menswear.jpg

https://www.mensjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/mj-618_348_villains-of-the-contrast-collar.jpg?w=618&h=348&crop=1

Apologies to any of the fine members here who might wear contrast collars.

There is a guy at my work who wears these (he has one in blue...and....(gasp) PINK!!) but the WORST part is that he wears them without a tie.

The absolute effin horror...................WHO DOES THAT?????

[cash05458]

The old guy getting a "happy ending" is not the point of the "outrage"....it is the human trafficking aspect of it...which I would include in your "myriad of terrible things" we should be worried about.

hear hear...I doubt Bob was aware of the whole human slavery angle when he was going for his tug job...anymore than he knows about the lives of the folks who work the snack bars at gillette stadium...but hear hear! sure, this country cares about exploitation...but of course.

[Mark McM]

hear hear...I doubt Bob was aware of the whole human slavery angle when he was going for his tug job...anymore than he knows about the lives of the folks who work the snack bars at gillette stadium...but hear hear! sure, this country cares about exploitation...but of course.

That's like saying that people who buy illegal drugs are unaware of the violent criminal drug cartels that traffic the drugs (including the exploited people used as drug mules). Yeah, its possible that some customers truly don't know; but the more erudite customers are aware, but choose not to 'know'.

[unterhausen]

can't find it right now, but I saw a story where the cops are backing away from the human trafficking part of this. The women could come and go if they wanted. I imagine the language barrier made it so they didn't go out much. And they slept in the place to save money. I feel like I predicted this earlier in the thread.

[ERK55]

There is a guy at my work who wears these (he has one in blue...and....(gasp) PINK!!) but the WORST part is that he wears them without a tie.

The absolute effin horror...................WHO DOES THAT?????

Real men wear pink.
Refer to Fausto Coppi, Anquetil, Bartali, Merckx, Indurain, Hampsten etc.

[unterhausen]

I'm surprised he doesn't have a knit skinny tie

[Jaybee]

Real men wear pink.
Refer to Fausto Coppi, Anquetil, Bartali, Merckx, Indurain, Hampsten etc.

Pink is fine. Contrast collars are not.

[ERK55]

Pink is fine. Contrast collars are not.

Guilty as charged, counselor.

[XXtwindad]

I don't care where Mr. Kraft sticks his withered wee-wee. As long as it was consensual, (i.e not "coerced") and the participants were of age. The coverage, however, hints at something much more pernicious:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna977426

Perhaps the "Ignorance is Bliss leads to Happy Ending" should start having some legal consequences. But I have no doubt Mr. Kraft will survive this scandal intact. Among a few sports fans, it may even burnish his image. "Atta Boy, Bob."

There is seemingly so scandal that can dent the Shield. Not obfuscating the medical information on concussions. Not domestic abuse. Not overt racism.

Save, perhaps, for one. If the gender of the exploited workers were different, I suspect Mr. Kraft would not fare so well in the court of public opinion.

[Peter P.]

If the gender of the exploited workers were different, I suspect Mr. Kraft would not fare so well in the court of public opinion.

Or better yet, if they were a football player.

[unterhausen]

the cameras were allowed under a provision in the Patriot act. https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/04/sneak-and-peek-warrant-for-florida-sting

[djg21]

A Florida man who was mistakenly arrested in a series of prostitution stings that ensnared New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft broke down while describing the humiliating bust he says upended his life.

. . . .

Martin Sheriff’s Lt. Mike Dougherty said Patel was wrongly identified as having patronized Florida Therapy Spa in Stuart for sex acts on Nov. 19. Charges against him were dropped Friday.

Patel, who owns two businesses and has two daughters, said he was in Chicago when the alleged crime happened.

The confusion happened when investigators ran the tags on a blue Porsche, registered to a woman with the last name Patel, that left the spa.

Dougherty said police identified a man with the last name Patel, who they say appeared to be identical to the man in the surveillance footage.

“When we discovered that Mr. Patel was mistakenly identified and arrested, we personally met with him to further investigate,” Martin County Sheriff William Snyder said in a statement.

“As a result, we notified the media and immediately began actions to pay his expenses and start the process of expunging his misdemeanor arrest record.”

https://nypost.com/2019/03/06/man-speaks-out-after-mistaken-arrest-in-prostitution-ring-that-netted-robert-kraft/

It seems that the Sheriff’s office was a bit over-enthusiastic and more than a little bit over-zealous. This is going to backfire. Kraft has a bottomless ammunition bag, and I doubt very much that there will be proof that Kraft paid for sex, notwithstanding the fact that he gave the spa owner and manager money after his alleged encounters.

[buddybikes]

Ok, Kraft as I think a betting man would do will get off. People will forget until week 1, raising super bowl banner then he is back explaining.

[vav]

Ok, Kraft as I think a betting man would do will get off. People will forget until week 1, raising super bowl banner then he is back explaining.

Beg your pardon. Say that again...:eek:

[dbnm]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/08/politics/li-yang-miami-herald-donald-trump-bob-kraft-superbowl/index.html

[joosttx]

Ok, Kraft as I think a betting man would do will get off. People will forget until week 1, raising super bowl banner then he is back explaining.

At his age and his weight I would of bet that he couldn't get off.:confused: