6 speed freewheel on Phil Wood hubs

[cgolvin]

My brother's Eroica prep for his Masi continues to encounter speedbumps. It's at Bicycle Odyssey for drivetrain upgrade and the latest hiccup concerns a replacement freewheel.

His wheels are built on Phil Wood hubs, currently holding a 6 speed 13-28 freewheel. Tony just told him that he had "scoured the Internet" and was unable to find a replacement, so would have to order a 5 speed 14-28. This doesn't sound right to me unless there is something unique/problematic about these hubs.

Is there any reason that this IRD 6 speed 13-28 (https://store.interlocracing.com/cl5fr.html) would not work with these hubs? And if not, why not and where would you look for a compatible freewheel?

thanks

[CMiller]

A 120mm spaced hub is the only reason to really stay with a 5 speed freewheel. There might have been smaller 6 speed freewheels that could fit in the smaller space that the mechanic can't source again. If it's indeed 126 or 130mm then I see no reason why they can't source a 6 or even 7 speed freewheel to put on there, including the IRD you sent over, or a cheaper replacement.

[CMiller]

Honestly I'd ebay an older Suntour freewheel or get a $20 Shimano. The IRD had some quality control issues earlier on.

Unrelated but I was at the shop 2 days ago and there were literally 50 handlebars on the floor in front of the walkway, with no path to walk through, I hope Tony cleans it up soon, I was tripping all over the place while looking at the beautiful frames haha

[choke]

That IRD would work. Since it currently has a 6sp on it then it's almost certainly a 126mm hub and a 7sp freewheel should fit as well.

On 120mm hubs, a Suntour Ultra6 or an Atom 77 Compact 6sp freewheel will work.

[Ken Robb]

Does Sunrace offer anything that would work? I had a 13-28 7-speed freewheel from them on 126mm Nuovo Record hubs that worked well.

[Hindmost]

Go for a 7-speed. It's 1979 again.

[cgolvin]

Thanks all. My understanding from all this is that the frame spacing, which I'm almost sure is 126mm (1972 Masi GC), is the determinant of what will fit, nothing unique to these hubs. Correct?

FWIW, on my 1978 Gios I have a 7 speed on my Nuovo Record hubs and it works well.

[andrew+]

Thanks all. My understanding from all this is that the frame spacing, which I'm almost sure is 126mm (1972 Masi GC), is the determinant of what will fit, nothing unique to these hubs. Correct?

FWIW, on my 1978 Gios I have a 7 speed on my Nuovo Record hubs and it works well.

A 1972 Masi would almost certainly be 120. That would explain the difficulty in finding a 6 speed freewheel that will fit.

If the frame is 120, the current freewheel is probably a Suntour ultra 6.

[19wisconsin64]

I recall having my first "real" wheelset built, using Suntour Superbe Pro 120 mm hubs, which used a 5 speed freewheel, or an Ultra 6 speed. Opting for the 6 speed you should be using the 6-7-8 speed chain too. These parts are easy to find. Hopefully your rear derailleur will line up nicely. There are lots of new inexpensive wider range freewheels online, but the only thing to worry about then is the short vs. long rear cage to handle the wider gear range. Good luck!

[11.4]

This won't work? Apart from the overpricing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stock-Suntour-Winner-Ultra-6-Speed-Freewheel-13x28-w-Silver-Finish/273675559512?hash=item3fb855a258:g:EHEAAOSw~kJaVlv z:sc:USPSPriorityMailSmallFlatRateBox!98110!US!-1:rk:18:pf:0

or, in a 13-30, this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stock-Suntour-New-Winner-Ultra-6-Speed-Freewheel-13x30-w-Silver-Finish/273021136483?hash=item3f9153ee63:g:1mwAAOSwbP1aV8I 2:sc:USPSPriorityMailSmallFlatRateBox!98110!US!-1:rk:33:pf:0

For all kinds of Eroica stuff, eBay is your friend.

Of course, you can tell your brother that a real he-man Eroica competitor would ride what they rode back then, which was a 14-19 or thereabouts. Annoying family is what family is for.

[choke]

Thanks all. My understanding from all this is that the frame spacing, which I'm almost sure is 126mm (1972 Masi GC), is the determinant of what will fit, nothing unique to these hubs. Correct?He needs to measure the spacing but I agree with andrew+ that's it's probably 120mm given the year.....of course it could have been cold set at some point.

If it is 120 this would do the trick and it's not as crazy priced as the Suntours - https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Silver-ATOM-77-Compact-6-Ultra-13-28-Leroica-BSA-English-Silver-Freewheel/303064888552?hash=item46901334e8:g:p5UAAOSwAaxcSey q:rk:10:pf:0 The only downside with the Atom FWs is when you want to remove them; depending on the hub locknuts there may not be enough space for the tool to slide in place and the axle has to be taken out. However, Phil Wood did make a tool with thinner walls and you can find them for sale occasionally.

FWIW, I always use a 9sp chain on the Ultra/Compact freewheels. It's a bit thinner than a standard 6/7/8 and you don't have to fiddle with the shifter as much.

[oldpotatoe]

He needs to measure the spacing but I agree with andrew+ that's it's probably 120mm given the year.....of course it could have been cold set at some point.

If it is 120 this would do the trick and it's not as crazy priced as the Suntours - https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Silver-ATOM-77-Compact-6-Ultra-13-28-Leroica-BSA-English-Silver-Freewheel/303064888552?hash=item46901334e8:g:p5UAAOSwAaxcSey q:rk:10:pf:0 The only downside with the Atom FWs is when you want to remove them; depending on the hub locknuts there may not be enough space for the tool to slide in place and the axle has to be taken out. However, Phil Wood did make a tool with thinner walls and you can find them for sale occasionally.

FWIW, I always use a 9sp chain on the Ultra/Compact freewheels. It's a bit thinner than a standard 6/7/8 and you don't have to fiddle with the shifter as much.

Agree with the others, probably 120mm spacing and yup, 'Ultra' 6s or 5s..and yes, I use 9s chains on all my freewheels..better clearance, better shifts.

[Hindmost]

Agree with the others, probably 120mm spacing and yup, 'Ultra' 6s or 5s..and yes, I use 9s chains on all my freewheels..better clearance, better shifts.

Likewise I've been using 9-speed chains on a couple of Eroica bikes; the chains are readily available, you can use links. But I have wondered if front shifts are slower because the chain doesn't get pushed on or picked up by the exposed rivet heads? Or is it simply because chainrings don't have ramps and pins?

[sg8357]

Suntour XCD makes 120mm cassette hubs, you use 6 cogs of a 8? speed cassette.

There are Bayliss-Wiley Unit hubs available on Ebay, kind of a freehub
with screw cogs. Hi-Tech 1950s

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bayliss-Wiley-Hub-1940S-50S-Rear-14-21T-3Spd-1-8-Cogs-40-Hole-Vintage-Bike-NOS/283359300185?hash=item41f987ca59:g:ubEAAOxy0zhTK4R g:rk:14:pf:0

[oldpotatoe]

Likewise I've been using 9-speed chains on a couple of Eroica bikes; the chains are readily available, you can use links. But I have wondered if front shifts are slower because the chain doesn't get pushed on or picked up by the exposed rivet heads? Or is it simply because chainrings don't have ramps and pins?

Probably number 2...

[rccardr]

Geez Louise, just space the hub to 126 and buy a 13-28 or 14-28 used Shimano UG freewheel on eBay or get one from Pastor Bob in NH at the Freewheel Spa.

3mm wider on each side means it's easy to slide the wheel in using slight thumb pressure without cold setting. I do that kind of stuff all the time, don't even have to realign the dropouts (unless you're sensitive to a half degree of change in dropout angle), shifts extremely well.

SRAM PC870 chains are my Go-to choice for friction 6 speed doubles and triples. Also replace the pulley wheels with Shimano 10 tooth ones or newer sealed bearing Bullseye ones. Nice, crisp, reliable shifting.