Hamilton Admission

[J.Greene]

snipped from procycling:

"I made a mistake and I paid a very high price. But now I'm ready to be back in the game. I've gone through endless months of torment and misery, my family and closest friends kept me up and helped me through it all.

I wonder if he feels like he should give back the gold medal?

JG

[AgilisMerlin]

He is going to get his head kicked in by the "bunch" don't you worry :D


I swear Eki is going to run him over with a team car. :no:


gotta go ride, i am burning sunlight

AmerliN

[Big Dan]

Do you mean to tell me there is no twin...?

:confused:

[BdaGhisallo]

Interestingly, though, it was the Russian Olympic Federation that was pursuing an appeal against Hamilton's time trial gold medal. I don't believe that Eki was terribly involved in that effort.

[oldguy00]

snipped from procycling:

"I made a mistake and I paid a very high price. But now I'm ready to be back in the game. I've gone through endless months of torment and misery, my family and closest friends kept me up and helped me through it all.

I wonder if he feels like he should give back the gold medal?

JG

Interesting how cyclingnews.com has changed the quote to read:
"mistakes were made" instead of "I made a mistake".

[J.Greene]

Interesting how cyclingnews.com has changed the quote to read:
"mistakes were made" instead of "I made a mistake".

Yes that's interesting, and velonews never printed the quote. It's still on procycling though.

JG

[pdxmech13]

These could get hot again imho

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . without some definitive version of the quote. Or perhaps some video of the actual press conference. With two distinctly different versions of the quote, obviously someone is wrong. Tyler has continued his denials in the face of every piece of evidence. I don't see him suddenly changing his tune. I think it's far more likely he said "Mistakes were made . . . ", implying someone else made them, than him admitting HE made a mistake.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is reporting the quote the same as CyclingNews . . .

Hamilton maintained his position as he signed the Tinkoff deal.

"There have been mistakes and the price that I had to pay was very high," he said. "Now I am ready to put myself back into competition. I passed excruciating long months and have come out on top thanks to the help of my family and my close friends. Now I am ready to for a new challenge and I want to thank Tinkoff Credit Systems for offering me this new opportunity."

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/11238.0.html

BBD

[Frustration]

Interesting how cyclingnews.com has changed the quote to read:
"mistakes were made" instead of "I made a mistake".


I believe Cyclingnews has it correct.

[crossjunkee]

Yawn!!

[Big Dan]

From Eurosport..........

"I have made a mistake and I paid a very high price for it," the American said.

"But I'm ready to make a comeback. After months and months of waiting and agonizing soul searching, I can't wait to get back into some serious competition"


http://www.eurosport.com/cycling/pro-tour/2006-2007/sport_sto1016586.shtml

[BumbleBeeDave]

Yawn!!

. . . I don't see anyone here forcing you to read the thread.

BBD

[J.Greene]

. . . without some definitive version of the quote. Or perhaps some video of the actual press conference. With two distinctly different versions of the quote, obviously someone is wrong. Tyler has continued his denials in the face of every piece of evidence. I don't see him suddenly changing his tune. I think it's far more likely he said "Mistakes were made . . . ", implying someone else made them, than him admitting HE made a mistake.

BBD

nah, same confession...he was saying the mistake was his wife having those faxes sent to her maiden name.

JG

[Serpico]

.
If I Did It...by Tyler Hamilton
.

[Grant McLean]

This is an interesting media story.

Cyclingnews and Velonews are the sources I usually trust
to get the real story. Associated Press and Reuters??
Well, considering how professional they are supposed to be,
you'd think and HOPE they'd get it right.

so far, here's the tally:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/othersports/2080AP_CYC_Hamilton_New_Team.html
"mistakes were made"

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/24/sports/EU_SPT_CYC_Hamilton_New_Team.php
associated press: story in Herald Tribune
"mistakes were made"

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6236785,00.html
reuters story in Guardian. "i made mistakes"

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=10219
"mistakes have been made"
This contains the text of the official press statement, but that statement
doesn't contain either quote, which must have come from the press
conference.

Possibly the Reuters report is the source of the mis-quote "i made mistakes"
If that is indeed not what was said.


g

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and here's one reason why . . .

http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/

Unfortunately it's almost impossible for any wire service to keep an eye on every freelancer they hire, whether writer or shooter, and make sure everything is perfectly on the up and up.

Quotes in particular are subject to being garbled or mis-remembered by reporters who just happened to have run out of space in their notebooks. The same vast communication the Internet has spawned that makes it easy to expose innaccuracies also contributes to the fast spread of those innaccuracies and their acceptance by the public as "facts."

Regardless of whether he "admitted" anything or not, though, it's going to be interesting to see how he does when he gets back in the peloton. After all, he's 35 now and also will no doubt be watched very closely. I'm just as curious to see how he does as I am to see what various juvenile tricks the UCI tries to keep from letting him race. He's been a real PITA to them and I would not be particularly surprised to see them try to screw him any way they think they can get away with.

In any event, good luck to him . . .

BBD

[Elefantino]

A former president once said:
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman..."
The quote has been re-reported by some news organizations as:
"I did not have sex with that woman..."

A former astronaut was reported to have said:
"That's one small step for man..."
But recent analysis of the radio tapes show he said:
"That's one small step for a man..."

Everyone can screw up quotes. No surprise.

However, I am devastated that someone would place Mickey Mouse at a bomb site. Now I have to go ride to soothe my disappointment in my profession.

[dirtdigger88]

. . . I don't see anyone here forcing you to read the thread.

BBD

this is exactly how I feel when you throw your .02 in about MY threads-

we are all adults- we can read what we want-

Jason

[obtuse]

I'm just as curious to see how he does as I am to see what various juvenile tricks the UCI tries to keep from letting him race. He's been a real PITA to them and I would not be particularly surprised to see them try to screw him any way they think they can get away with.

In any event, good luck to him . . .

BBD

you really don't get any of this do you? the big bad uci is after the poor doper? juvenile tricks? what are you talking about?

obtuse

[harlond]

you really don't get any of this do you?
obtuseSo explain it, please.

[obtuse]

So explain it, please.


pro bike racer gets busted.

wastes a bunch of money and time denying it. which tarnishes him, the sport and insults everyones intelligence.

his ban is up and he signs to a new team.

that's it.

obtuse

[harlond]

pro bike racer gets busted.

wastes a bunch of money and time denying it. which tarnishes him, the sport and insults everyones intelligence.

his ban is up and he signs to a new team.

that's it.

obtuseHow is that inconsistent with the UCI trying to prevent him from racing?

[obtuse]

How is that inconsistent with the UCI trying to prevent him from racing?


it isn't. it is inconsistent with bumblebee's assertion that the uci is employing "juvenile tricks" and is somehow the bad guy in this whole affair. when a rider gets popped they should take their lumps and be done with it. if they don't like the uci's rules; they can find a different game to play or they can collectivly do something about it in the form of a rider's union or the like. making a bunch of lawyers rich and embarking on a three year farce does no one any good. it is appalling to me that otherwise intelligent people would buy any of the "juvenile" spin that has emenated from the hamilton camp. the guy is so obviously guilty of a doping infraction that he makes ben johnson look like an example of innocence.

obtuse

[Lunar Probe]

Speaking of "juvenile tricks", what of the anti **** Pound t-shirts at MT. Washington? And is it absolutely true that he swore his innocence on his dogs grave?

[BumbleBeeDave]

it isn't. it is inconsistent with bumblebee's assertion that the uci is employing "juvenile tricks" and is somehow the bad guy in this whole affair. when a rider gets popped they should take their lumps and be done with it. if they don't like the uci's rules; they can find a different game to play or they can collectivly do something about it in the form of a rider's union or the like. making a bunch of lawyers rich and embarking on a three year farce does no one any good. it is appalling to me that otherwise intelligent people would buy any of the "juvenile" spin that has emenated from the hamilton camp. the guy is so obviously guilty of a doping infraction that he makes ben johnson look like an example of innocence.

obtuse

. . . it is you who "doesn't get it" in this case, obtuse. Or at least you're "getting it" in a very different way. It doesn't take any "spin" from Hamilton to make it clear to me that there are no good guys in this affair and that the UCI has been acting just as despicably, atmo, by their failure to follow their own rules as Hamilton did by doping in the first place. Additionally, I have made exactly the observation you are making several times on this forum--namely, that if the UCI continues to act as inconsistently with their own procedures and rules in cases like this, that the ultimate result will be for the riders to act in their own best interest and unionize in some way.

Did Hamilton dope? Probably. But it's impossible to be 100% certain, atmo. However, I can in my own mind be 100% certain that the UCI has acted very poorly in this whole affair and continues to fail to follow their own procedures clearly in case after case. All I have to do is read their own press releases. They are doing as much damage to the reputation of the sport by their continuation of such ridiculous behavior as Hamilton and others are doing by doping. They also obviously have it in for Hamilton because he's cost them a hell of a lot of money, time, and bad publicity. I don't need to go any farther myself to be convinced of this than by their ridiculous, heavy-handed tactics of intimidating other riders into not participating in an insignificant parking lot crit in Boulder that one of TH's friends had organized to benefit a charity.

Hamilton and other dopers are indeed bad guys. But so is the UCI. So is **** Pound. So are all the players in this sorry stage show who continue to act in their own monetary and nationalistic self-interest and make the sport look so foolish.

I think I "get it" pretty well. You, of course, are entirely welcome to disagree or "get it" in your own way. But don't try to twist what I say. I think I've been pretty GD clear . . .

BBD

[GoJavs]

I respectfully disagree, buddy. Yeah, the UCI is just as guilty as the guy doping 200 days a year to win the Tour of Romandie. :crap:

[obtuse]

. . . it is you who "doesn't get it" in this case, obtuse. Or at least you're "getting it" in a very different way. It doesn't take any "spin" from Hamilton to make it clear to me that there are no good guys in this affair and that the UCI has been acting just as despicably, atmo, by their failure to follow their own rules as Hamilton did by doping in the first place. Additionally, I have made exactly the observation you are making several times on this forum--namely, that if the UCI continues to act as inconsistently with their own procedures and rules in cases like this, that the ultimate result will be for the riders to act in their own best interest and unionize in some way.

Did Hamilton dope? Probably. But it's impossible to be 100% certain, atmo. However, I can in my own mind be 100% certain that the UCI has acted very poorly in this whole affair and continues to fail to follow their own procedures clearly in case after case. All I have to do is read their own press releases. They are doing as much damage to the reputation of the sport by their continuation of such ridiculous behavior as Hamilton and others are doing by doping. They also obviously have it in for Hamilton because he's cost them a hell of a lot of money, time, and bad publicity. I don't need to go any farther myself to be convinced of this than by their ridiculous, heavy-handed tactics of intimidating other riders into not participating in an insignificant parking lot crit in Boulder that one of TH's friends had organized to benefit a charity.

Hamilton and other dopers are indeed bad guys. But so is the UCI. So is **** Pound. So are all the players in this sorry stage show who continue to act in their own monetary and nationalistic self-interest and make the sport look so foolish.

I think I "get it" pretty well. You, of course, are entirely welcome to disagree or "get it" in your own way. But don't try to twist what I say. I think I've been pretty GD clear . . .

BBD


how is thw uci one of the bad guys? for not allowing athletes who hold a license with them to compete in events that allow uci banned athletes to compete? why should they?

obtuse

[Big Dan]

believe....

Why are they throwing the book at Der Kaiser..........?

:confused:

[saab2000]

Hamilton and other dopers are indeed bad guys.
BBD

No, they are not bad guys. They are good guys who do stupid things and get caught either red handed or in a gray area. But they are not bad guys. I must be clear on that. Personally knowing some pro riders I can say that they are as normal as you or me or anyone else. But they can ride and occasionally ambition overwhelms their consciences. It is cheating and they should pay. But they are not bad people.

Second. Let it go. He will be back next year it looks like. Whether his words amount to a 'confession' or not is irrelevant. The rest is water under the bridge and the last two years are not coming back. Unless TH does something incredible and is very open like David Millar about being clean he is a marginalized rider without very much credibility. So like OJ Simpson, he is presumed guilty because of overwhelming evidence, even though nobody actually can say with absolute 100% certainty that either of them are for sure guilty. But they are both now at the fringe and it is time to move on.

That is not a comment for BBdave, but for everyone. The clean riders in this sport want to re-build the sport.

[obtuse]

the spin the real big money has put behind discrediting **** pound, wada and the uci is the real 1000lb gorilla. the same "guys" who are behind the whole springs fiasco, who get to ride with lance armstrong and send american kids out to the european slaughter escape any ridicule and bbd has a problem with the uci not letting its athletes compete against sanctioned dopers in unsanctioned events.

it's a sick world kids.

obtuse

[obtuse]

No, they are not bad guys. They are good guys who do stupid things and get caught either red handed or in a gray area. But they are not bad guys. I must be clear on that. Personally knowing some pro riders I can say that they are as normal as you or me or anyone else. But they can ride and occasionally ambition overwhelms their consciences. It is cheating and they should pay. But they are not bad people.

Second. Let it go. He will be back next year it looks like. Whether his words amount to a 'confession' or not is irrelevant. The rest is water under the bridge and the last two years are not coming back. Unless TH does something incredible and is very open like David Millar about being clean he is a marginalized rider without very much credibility. So like OJ Simpson, he is presumed guilty because of overwhelming evidence, even though nobody actually can say with absolute 100% certainty that either of them are for sure guilty. But they are both now at the fringe and it is time to move on.

That is not a comment for BBdave, but for everyone. The clean riders in this sport want to re-build the sport.

tyler has shown himself to be a delusional ego-maniac.....not that this makes him a bad guy; just saying.

obtuse

[ergott]

So like OJ Simpson, he is presumed guilty because of overwhelming evidence, even though nobody actually can say with absolute 100% certainty that either of them are for sure guilty.


I can with 100% certainty that OJ did it. So can everyone in the world except the morons on the jury. Sorry, but that is a real poor analogy.

Wait a minute, I almost as sure that Hamilton was guilty too ;)

[saab2000]

I can with 100% certainty that OJ did it. So can everyone in the world except the morons on the jury. Sorry, but that is a real poor analogy.

Wait a minute, I almost as sure that Hamilton was guilty too ;)

I wasn't there as a witness to either person's crime, one of which was a real crime and the other cheating in sports. It is probably a bad analogy.

Anyway, they both have to live with their consciences now. Maybe guys like that don't have a conscience, in which case my comments about the 'bad guys' is itself questionable. 'Cuz the guys I know who ride at that level struggled hard with the cheating in the sport. It is not fun and as soon as the support of the peloton is gone you gotta live with it.

Skibby

[Serpico]

I think the wada and uci folks overplay their hand, which generates support (domestically) for tyler et al. and their "we think you're dumb enough to believe this sh*t" theories

if pound and co. would stfu and just say "no comment" then these lame conspiracy theories by armstrong, hamilton and landis wouldn't gain traction

[BdaGhisallo]

I have to agree with BBD on this. No matter the crime that some athletes have committed, the UCI and WADA are not covering themselves in glory in their pursuit of them. Denying due process, pronouncing guilt in the press before any procedures have even begun, and not adhering to their own procedures that they themselves wrote are not the way to go about things. They are not doing the sport any favours and they are destroying the careers of many cyclists before there is any concrete evidence of wrongdoing. And before anyone says it, non-negative drug tests are not a confirmation of guilt in the laws of sport - they merely serve as evidence, with guilt determined through the proper procedures and hearings.

This whole notion that suspected or maligned cyclists must prove their innocence is farcical. How can someone like Basso, for example, prove that he didn't dope? How can anyone prove 100% that they did not do something? It's impossible. Even if the bags of blood seized as part of Operation Puerto could be linked to athletes, what does that prove? It simply proves that some blood was removed from their bodies. Where's the proof that any of it was reintroduced to the cyclists in question? Until you have that evidence, you have no crime. If that weren't the case, then the blood banks of the world would be full of people serving two years bans from WADA!

There are a lot of organizations, with a lot of people in them who are dependent on lots of aid from governments and olympic committees to fund their plush jobs and sinecures. If there is not a huge drug problem then those funds will dry up. Do you think that the powers that be at WADA want to eliminate the doping issue in sport? Of course not. No doping problem... no need for WADA... no more cushy jobs. It is in their interests to talk the problem up. Sure there are individuals in these organizations who genuinely want to cure the problem and help, but there are far more who are simply bureaucrats looking to advance up the corporate ladder of sport. (Take, for instance, our own Hein Verbruggen. He started out as a marketing exec for Mars in Europe, got into cycling - the old FICP before it merged with the UCI -and made a name for himself "modernizing" cycling. This served as the perfect launch pad for a move to a bigger job in the IOC world.)

Now I know that there is a problem with doping in cycling, just as in most other major sports - the severity in each sport may differ but not its existence. As long as there is money and glory and fame involved, athletes will cheat. Not all of them, but enough to constitute a problem. However, the way in which the efforts to eradicate the problem are being directed is doing no one any favours and is not making the problem diminish.

This effort needs to be conducted properly and, at present, it is not. WADA, the UCI and all the national governing bodies must, like Caesar's wife, be beyond reproach if they are to command respect for their efforts.

[Grant McLean]

The real crime is that people need 100% proof to believe.

Even in a murder trial, the standard is "beyond reasonable doubt".
Too much TV science as given people the idea that they can figure
out anything given "the evidence". CSI is not real, it's a TV show.

g

[William]

http://pangea.stanford.edu/courses/GES41L/motivation/mistake.gif

[Lunar Probe]

BdaGhisallo hit the nail on the head. Several times.

[harlond]

the spin the real big money has put behind discrediting **** pound, wada and the uci is the real 1000lb gorilla. the same "guys" who are behind the whole springs fiasco, who get to ride with lance armstrong and send american kids out to the european slaughter escape any ridicule and bbd has a problem with the uci not letting its athletes compete against sanctioned dopers in unsanctioned events.

it's a sick world kids.

obtuse**** Pound discredits himself and WADA everytime he opens his mouth. Spin has nothing to do with it; it's his open and obvious disregard for administrative processes and for the rights of riders that causes so many to consider him part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

[catulle]

Hamilton: Hamilton College
Admission: Highly selective

[obtuse]

Hamilton: Hamilton College
Admission: Highly selective


ahm...not really. sort of a safety school for the likes of amherst, williams and swarthmore.

obtuse

[vaxn8r]

.... Even if the bags of blood seized as part of Operation Puerto could be linked to athletes, what does that prove? It simply proves that some blood was removed from their bodies. Where's the proof that any of it was reintroduced to the cyclists in question? Until you have that evidence, you have no crime. If that weren't the case, then the blood banks of the world would be full of people serving two years bans from WADA!....


You have to be kidding right? Yeah, I've been an athlete for pretty much my entire life and I've never heard of an athlete donating bags of blood and keeping it on hand for, oh I don't know, humanitarian aid? Yeah, there's probably no way to make the leap they were cheating. Kinda like David Millar and the empty syringes of EPO found in his room. You can't be sure he actually used them right?

[oracle]

you girls are all so silly....

[Louis]

A former astronaut was reported to have said:
"That's one small step for man..."
But recent analysis of the radio tapes show he said:
"That's one small step for a man..."

Completely OT, but I bet if you had 100 people who were not aware of the "official transcript" listen to that tape the ovewhelming majority would say that it was "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."

Louis

[Elefantino]

Completely OT, but I bet if you had 100 people who were not aware of the "official transcript" listen to that tape the ovewhelming majority would say that it was "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."

Louis

The people who pushed for that quote to be changed are textbook and dictionary manufacturers, who are not exactly covering themselves in glory in this matter.

[A.L.Breguet]

Yawn!!
Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

[BdaGhisallo]

You have to be kidding right? Yeah, I've been an athlete for pretty much my entire life and I've never heard of an athlete donating bags of blood and keeping it on hand for, oh I don't know, humanitarian aid? Yeah, there's probably no way to make the leap they were cheating. Kinda like David Millar and the empty syringes of EPO found in his room. You can't be sure he actually used them right?

Well what about Santiago Botero? He openly admitted to consorting with Fuentes and even said that he served as his personal doctor. He calmly stated that his blood bags found in the raid were there because he banked some with his doctor should he ever get in a bad accident and needed a transfusion. He didn't want to take a risk by taking donated blood. It sounds a little far-fetched and perhaps impractical, but how can anyone refute that, and prove wroingdoing? As for David Millar, they couldn't prove he used those syringes - he confessed.

Don't get me wrong. A lot of these guys do dope, despite all the recent efforts and the knowledge of those that have been "caught" already. Despite that, just because you "know" in your heart and mind that these guys were/are cheating, that is not enough to convict them. I wonder how many times police detectives have had to let a suspect walk when they KNEW he was the one, because they didn't have any evidence that would stand up in a court of law?

[Mud]

Hamilton used the Jason Giambi defense. Barrry Bonds, Garry Sheffield said they thought it was flax seed oil. (BTW I take flax seed everyday and still cannot make it up Waughaw Hill without a 30 second stop.) Giambi, Bonds and Sheffield have never been suspended and make a minimum of $13 Million a year. Baseball has a very strict drug policy that seems to catch the $minor leaguers or the never going to happen ballplayers. :confused:

Why get all excited about this stuff. Look how many people would be out of jobs if all this stuff were legalized. It is going to be 60 degrees today. Yesterday we went through so many small towns in the Andover-Sparta NJ area I don't even know how many. It seemed like we climbed 1000 hills all without the aid of EPO, and today we will take another shot at Waughaw. Life is good, enjoy the ride. :banana:

[catulle]

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

Ditto.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . first edition news . . .

BBD

____________________________

Confusion over Hamilton 'admission'

By Gregor Brown

In an interesting turn of events, Tyler Hamilton has retracted his statement made Friday, November 24, in a team press release announcing his new contract with Tinkoff Credit Systems. The rider from Marblehead, Massachusetts was quoted in an official press release, written in Italian, as saying "Ho sbagliato e il prezzo che ho dovuto pagare è stato molto alto," or "I made a mistake and the price that I had to pay was very high." The statement, although not specific, seemed to hint that the 35 year-old was confessing to his 2004 positive test of doping via blood transfusions.

Shortly after the article appeared on Cyclingnews, we were contacted by the Tinkoff Team Manager Stefano Feltrin who said that the team had made a mistake when translating Hamilton's words in the press release, which, along with our news website, had already been sent out to other major media outlets. Feltrin kindly noted that his newly signed cyclist wished the statement would be changed to "There have been mistakes and the price that I had to pay was very high."

Hamilton ran into trouble in late 2004 when controls at the Olympics and Vuelta a España showed positive for blood transfusions. He was allowed to keep his Olympic gold time trial medal when the second sample needed for testing was accidentally frozen but the positive findings for both the A and B samples in the Spanish tour meant the American faced a two-year ban.

Never confessing to any wrongdoing, Hamilton steadfastly refused the test results until Friday, when it appeared as though the cyclist was making an admission to doping. However, when the press release was clarified the cyclist's words became less than an 'admission.'

"In my opinion there needs to be more collaboration between the riders and the sport officials," said Hamilton to Cyclingnews when asked what needs to be done to help cycling's current doping problems. "The guilty until proven innocent mantra needs to stop. There are clear problems with the anti-doping system when you have results being leaked, computer systems allegedly being hacked into and athletes being prosecuted on the basis of conflicting or unsubstantiated data."

Look for a full feature by Cyclingnews with Tinkoff's Tyler Hamilton in the coming week.

[manet]

sbadigliare

[manet]

sbadigliare

Kama Sutra has an interesting take on the yawn

[BumbleBeeDave]

.

[William]

http://pangea.stanford.edu/courses/GES41L/motivation/pessimism.gif