small wagon? (another "best car" thread)

[myette10]

What happened to all the good station wagons? I've got a '96 corolla wagon that I love, but it's getting old and will need replacement soon. Even though I hate SUVs, I'd go with an element if I didn't have the occasional need for 5 seats (my two kids + the neighbors 2). They are way too functional to ignore. But the 4 seat thing takes them out.

I won't drive anything american, so the choices go something like this:
Scion XB
Toyota Matrix
Hondy Fit
Mazda 3
Mazda 5
Mazda 6 wagon
Subaru Outback

Roof racks are in my future as they have been in the past, and I'm ok with that. I know lots of people like to be able to keep their bikes inside if possible and with each of these I can if absolutely necessary though I'd need to lay them on thier sides.

Your experiences? Disclaimer: I'm partial to toyota's in general so the scion and matrix are ahead of the count here.

[frito]

Like the Scion Xb. Really Neat package with nice standard features. No air bags stinks and no cruise. It is more a city car than a highway car.

Matrix is ok. Drove one. Did not like it enough to buy. Base engine is just average for this car.

Like the fit A LOT. In fact I may get one eventually. Good luck getting one. They are in short supply.

Mazda 3 great little car. They are a bit tight inside. Back seat headroom is average at best.

Mazda 5 looks very practical. Reviews are not great.

Buddy has a mazda 6 wagon. he likes it and it is nice to ride in. It has a Ford engine.

Subaru outback is good but look at the Forester since it is similar to the other cars mentioned in that it sits you more upright.

I have had a forester XT (turbo) for 3 + years and it has been great. More money in the turbo version so the regular X version works fine.

The bad is gas mileage for all subs is not too great.

I like the new vw rabbit. Bigger than most in the rear and upscale feel. I bit pricey and average gas milage with the so so 5 cylinder. I may get a GTI 5 door if the fit does not work out. VW will have to get the reliability up though.

[texbike]

Myette,

This time last year I was looking for a fuel-efficient, reliable, yet fun to drive car and looked at most of the ones on your list.

I rented a Pontiac Vibe (rebadged Matrix) a couple of times while on business and really like the solidity of the platform.

At the time the Mazda 5 and the Honda Fit weren't available in the U.S., but I did test drive the Xb, the Mazda 6 wagons, and the Mazda 3 hatch.

The Mazda 6 seemed to be a surprising value. At the time they were offering a well-optioned version for less than $16K out the door here in Austin. I almost pulled the trigger but was more attracted to the fun to drive aspect of the Mazda 3 and the Xb.

The Mazda 3 was more sporting than the Xb and had a very solid feel to it.

However, I found that I was more attracted to the butt-ugly styling and fun to drive feeling of the Xb and went with it. A year and 20K miles later I am very pleased with my decision. It has turned out to be one of my favorite cars. Other than a radio that would randomly select its own stations at will (replaced under warranty), the car has been absolutely trouble free. It regularly returns 33-35 mpg on the highway. Mine is equipped with a 5 speed which I highly reccommend. It transforms the car. Whenever I drive it, I am constantly reminded of the 2002s, Alfas, and Datsun 510s that have spent time in our family.

My suggestion is to read reviews on each of them. Interestingly the Xb tends to be rated toward the top in almost all road tests.

Good luck!

Texbike

[Steve Hampsten]

2007 mazdaspeed

$23,000

162mph turbo-charged hatchback

tell the wife you need it to get the kids to school on time

could work - and the kids will enjoy it

win/win

[big shanty]

Hyundai Elantra GT 5-door. ~$14,000. Awesome car. I'm 6'4" and it is the most comfortable small car I've ever driven...incredible legroom and headroom, fold the seats down and you can transport a 60cm+ bike w/out removing a wheel. On trips to Portland I've gotten 36 mpg on regular unleaded....get around 25 mpg in town. Plus you can't beat the warranty. Be man enough to drive a Hyundai.

I test-drove this car as a goof....and was stunned with how impressed I was with it. Dollar for dollar, it is a hell of a car. Very tasteful interior, leather seats, passenger & side curtain airbags, remote entry, cruise, etc. etc.

[texbike]

"Like the Scion Xb. Really Neat package with nice standard features. No air bags stinks and no cruise. It is more a city car than a highway car."

My Xb has both driver and passenger airbags as standard equipment. I did have to pop extra for the cruise control, but it is available on the 2006 + Xbs.

Texbike

[bcm119]

Mazda 3's are great cars. I have the sedan version because I wanted the smaller engine for better mpg, but the hatches are a little zippier with the 2.3. The engines are smooth and really come to life over 3500 rpm. I've been getting 36 mpg on the highway with the 2.0 5-speed. They handle great for an economy car and have a positive, solid feel you don't find in most small cars- the suspension is tuned perfectly. I put on my old yakima roof rack with new clips with no problem.

Skip the Subie unless you really need the clearance and awd, they are super boring to drive.

The Mazdaspeed 3 looks pretty hot, for 23k you be hard pressed to find a more fun car.

[Ginger]

I love my lemon...I mean...Mazda 3 5 door! I believe it is on a volvo platform, Ford engine, mazda manual trans. 2006, I've had it for a year. Part of the car's issue is the dealership.
Lets see...when I picked it up, bad prep, it pulled to the right. Turns out one of the *tires* was out of round. They should have checked that when they balanced everything when I dropped it off the next day...but I digress.

I love the car, it's a great daily driver. Tall people can drive it...dunno about back seat headroom as I don't ride back there. I haven't heard any complaints yet.
I had issues with the gas milage. Didn't matter how I drove it (and I've been driving a stick since I started driving...) the car hated to start on hills. Visiting NC in March I had to heel/toe and slip the clutch in a big nasty way to get the thing going on some of the inclines and the gas mileage wasn't consistant. 24-37mpg...didn't matter where or how...Turns out there was a technical service bulletin out on the fuel pump. Changed that out under warranty now I get 27 city, 34 highway. There was a TSB on the windshield wipers too of all things...now I can see. Very nice. Right now with 25000 miles on it in one year I have a touch of an alignment problem...but the car and I are going back once more to get that fixed.

Did I mention I love the car? It's a great vacation car...below is a picture of it loaded with way too much camping and riding stuff this summer.

Even without the speed package, my car gets out of it's own way even when fully loaded. I use a hitch tray rack off the back of the car so I don't loose gas mileage to the roof rack. Works well.

[bcm119]

I love my lemon...I mean...Mazda 3 5 door! I believe it is on a volvo platform, Ford engine, mazda manual trans. 2006, I've had it for a year. Part of the car's issue is the dealership.
Lets see...when I picked it up, bad prep, it pulled to the right. Turns out one of the *tires* was out of round. They should have checked that when they balanced everything when I dropped it off the next day...but I digress.

I love the car, it's a great daily driver. Tall people can drive it...dunno about back seat headroom as I don't ride back there. I haven't heard any complaints yet.
I had issues with the gas milage. Didn't matter how I drove it (and I've been driving a stick since I started driving...) the car hated to start on hills. Visiting NC in March I had to heel/toe and slip the clutch in a big nasty way to get the thing going on some of the inclines and the gas mileage wasn't consistant. 24-37mpg...didn't matter where or how...Turns out there was a technical service bulletin out on the fuel pump. Changed that out under warranty now I get 27 city, 34 highway. There was a TSB on the windshield wipers too of all things...now I can see. Very nice. Right now with 25000 miles on it in one year I have a touch of an alignment problem...but the car and I are going back once more to get that fixed.

Did I mention I love the car? It's a great vacation car...below is a picture of it loaded with way too much camping and riding stuff this summer.

Even without the speed package, my car gets out of it's own way even when fully loaded. I use a hitch tray rack off the back of the car so I don't loose gas mileage to the roof rack. Works well.

Yeah, the 3 shares a platform with the Volvo S40 and european Focus. IMHO its a way better deal than the S40. You're the first person I've known to report any consistent problems with the 3. My only complaint is the electronic throttle control because of the slight delay in engine response...you have to get used to slightly different clutch timing to launch it smoothly from a stop, atmo. Oh yeah, changing the oil is a pita! I only have 11k on mine but so far I love it.

[myette10]

Be man enough to drive a Hyundai.

Hey... I drive an 11 year old econobox station wagon, I'm man enough for a Hyundai! I'll check it out, thanks Shanty. I've heard that Hyundai's reliablity is on the rise, that's one of the reasons I'm a huge Toyota fan.

[myette10]

"Like the Scion Xb. Really Neat package with nice standard features. No air bags stinks and no cruise. It is more a city car than a highway car."

My Xb has both driver and passenger airbags as standard equipment. I did have to pop extra for the cruise control, but it is available on the 2006 + Xbs.

Texbike

I think Frito is referring to the lack of side airbags which I'm dissapointed with as well.

[CNY rider]

I'll throw a vote in for the Subaru. I bought my first one in 1996, and just replaced it a month ago with an LL Bean Outback. The first one performed nearly flawlessly for 10 years. It ultimately got eaten alive by salt and upstate NY winters.

I'll agree it's been a pretty boring car for me. When it comes to cars I love boring. Boring to me means I never get stuck in the snow; I have plenty of ground clearance for the local dirt roads; and in 10 years I never had the car break down. When I want excitement I pursue one of my hobbies. The car is simply a means of transport, not an avenue of entertainment for me.

Also I believe new crash safety ratings just came out and Subaru was one of the top performers.

[davids]

Attainable desires:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=279283&postcount=128

[gone]

I've got a Matrix XRS - higher performance engine and 6 speed manual transmission that I've had for a little over a year. I like the car quite a bit, plenty roomy, 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS and electronic brake distribution, air bags, cruise, etc. Plus, I'm able to get two bikes in it upright. OK, I do have to remove the seatposts but these are 60 cm frames. It gets about 36 mpg highway and in the 30 range driving around town and goes like a rocket.

My wife needed a car recently and we bought another Matrix. I believe
Toyota has discontinued the XRS and replaced it with a model called "M Theory" whatever that means. They no longer offer the high perf. engine or 6 speed.

[christian]

Be aware that the 2007 Elantra is significantly re-designed, and the GT/hatchback is no longer available. That said, if you can find a 2006 GT at a good price, I'd definitely consider it.

I'd also have a look at the Subaru Impreza/Outback wagons if you live in a northerly climate. The other car that's extremely interesting is the Mazda 5. You'd have to look long and hard for a more practical car.

[Bradford]

I have two Subarus, a 2000 Outback Wagon with 165,000 miles on it and a Forester we bought last year. I think the Outback is the perfect combination of utility, safty, comfort, and environmental responsibility; it isn't the top performer on any of those catagories, but it does them all pretty well.

The Forester is a little smaller, but a bit more comfortable...we are really thrilled with it.

Can't go wrong with Subaru, especially if you live where there is snow.

[big shanty]

Be aware that the 2007 Elantra is significantly re-designed, and the GT/hatchback is no longer available. That said, if you can find a 2006 GT at a good price, I'd definitely consider it.

I'd also have a look at the Subaru Impreza/Outback wagons if you live in a northerly climate. The other car that's extremely interesting is the Mazda 5. You'd have to look long and hard for a more practical car.

I don't know why they would fiddle with the design...it is a handsome car. I got the GT in black, it appears to be a much "richer" car than it is. The sedan does not look nearly as sleek, and obviously lacks the storage/transport capacity. The GLS line (sedan and hatchback) looks cheesier i.e. no alloy wheels and cloth interior. The GT hatchback with the Saab "inspired" shape is a winner.....I don't get it. I dunno, maybe the 2007s will look great.

[christian]

No. The 2007 is much less distinctive.

[jbrainin]

What happened to all the good station wagons? I've got a '96 corolla wagon that I love, but it's getting old and will need replacement soon. Even though I hate SUVs, I'd go with an element if I didn't have the occasional need for 5 seats (my two kids + the neighbors 2). They are way too functional to ignore. But the 4 seat thing takes them out.

I won't drive anything american, so the choices go something like this:
Scion XB
Toyota Matrix
Hondy Fit
Mazda 3
Mazda 5
Mazda 6 wagon
Subaru Outback

Roof racks are in my future as they have been in the past, and I'm ok with that. I know lots of people like to be able to keep their bikes inside if possible and with each of these I can if absolutely necessary though I'd need to lay them on thier sides.

Your experiences? Disclaimer: I'm partial to toyota's in general so the scion and matrix are ahead of the count here.

I've been driving a Matrix for three years. It's great for transporting a bike as you can get the bike inside without removing any wheels. It's much more affordable than the Subaru and better made than the Mazda. It drives ok but not nearly as well as my wife's Ford Focus.

I suggest checking out the Focus and to consider it a German vehicle more than an American one as it's been designed as a "global car" by Ford and handles amazingly well for a car at a price that is even less than the Matrix.

Regarding avoiding an American car, note that the Matrix is assembled in an American factory alongside the Vibe.

[Ginger]

Be aware that the 2007 Elantra is significantly re-designed, and the GT/hatchback is no longer available. That said, if you can find a 2006 GT at a good price, I'd definitely consider it.

I'd also have a look at the Subaru Impreza/Outback wagons if you live in a northerly climate. The other car that's extremely interesting is the Mazda 5. You'd have to look long and hard for a more practical car.

Yes, if I had a whif of the Mazda 5 coming out, I would have waited. The Mazda 6 wagon was tempting too...

I'd love a subaru if they added a little attention to gas mileage with all that safety.

Oh, if you get the Mazda 3, make sure you have side air bags. Improves the safety ratings considerably.

[Karin Kirk]

I agree that station wagons are hard to find in this era of the SUV.

I'll throw in a vote for the VW wagons (Jetta, Passat). We have a '99 Passat wagon that carries two bikes in the back with ease and gets 30+ mpg. Sadly the newer ones don't do as well with the fuel economy. The Jetta wagons are cute too.

[Ginger]

If you *do* go with a Subaru, check out the discount available through IMBA...I think you have to be a member for X months or something...but if I remember right it recently got to be a better deal...

[tulli]

I've had a Mazda 6 wagon for a couple of years now, and must say it is the worst car I've ever owned. The problems I've had include: Brake rotors coming out of true approx. ever 10000 Km, poor fuel mileage, incurable rattles inside the dash, major water leak into the passenger footwell, terrible service at the dealer and the list goes on.

However I currently also have a 6 hatchback with the 4 cyl. engine and love it. No problems at all aside from poor dealer service, I also had the 3 hatchback with no problems either.

[justinf]

Subaru Outbacks rule. They are hot like older Volvo wagons.

[frito]

I should have been more clear in that the Xb does not have side impact air bags. But it does have standard stability control.

As for Subies being boring. The turbo/manual Forester (with 4.56 final drive in my 2004) is certainly not boring.

Lots of great info here...

[sjbraun]

My daughter ordered a Fit in late July, then had to wait until October for delivery. It is a very nice car. Full air bags, 5 star crash-worthiness, 30 mpg in town with only 700 miles on the odometer so far.
The storage options are very impressive. A full sized road bike fits behind the front seats, or two bikes fit nicely (upright) in the back. Over on the tandem list, pics have been posted of a full sized tandem standing upright in a Fit with only the front wheel removed. The passenger had to sit behind the driver to accommodate this.
A very versatile small car. It handles well and is surprisingly peppy in urban traffic.
Plus, its a Honda.
I would hesitate to buy another VW product. I've had two and they both became money traps. The last was a '99 Passat wagon. The car road beautifully, loved twist mountain roads and handle mountain passes with ease carrying 4 adults, luggage and three bikes on top. Unfortunately, after about 20K miles, it started to fall apart: whell bearings, tie rods, water pump, interior trim.
VWs are nice vehicles, just expect to pay a lot to keep one on the road.

[myette10]

Regarding avoiding an American car, note that the Matrix is assembled in an American factory alongside the Vibe.

Yeah - It's nothing against american craftsmanship (I know that the matrix & vibe are made by a jointly owned Toyota/GM plant), it is that I've owned enough of both to form a solid opinion. I also work in insurance and have lots of contact with auto body and repair shops and by and large those guys tell me to buy toyotas or hondas.

On asthetics alone, I do like the focus and hear you re: a global design. I'll consider it.