Sagan video and the evolution of cycling fitness...

[XXtwindad]

A client forwarded this to me:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/peter-sagan-has-shared-a-video-of-his-core-workout-and-its-absolutely-insane-382135

Even for someone who espouses flexibility as a key component of fitness, the last move is jaw dropping.

My question: who is cycling's "Tiger Woods,": the individual who changed the fitness landscape for cyclists? Was it Lance? Does such a cyclist exist? Curious to hear from any of the historians out there...

[tsarpepe]

Yeah, I can't do that...

[MattTuck]

You guys don't do this when you first roll out of bed? Looks like my usual morning routine. NOT!

Good for him, I wish I was paid to be in shape and ride a bike.

[chiasticon]

that last move was impressive.

Nino has more fun toys though: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/hitting-the-gym-with-nino-schurter/

and Sven's bringing it to the next generation: https://www.cxmagazine.com/thibau-sven-nys-young-cannibal-jumping-agility-drills-video

[saab2000]

My question: who is cycling's "Tiger Woods,": the individual who changed the fitness landscape for cyclists? Was it Lance? Does such a cyclist exist? Curious to hear from any of the historians out there...

Tiger Woods is the most visible golfer in the world and Sagan is probably the most visible cyclist. But that's where the similarity ends. Tiger Woods is kind of surly and rarely looks like he's having fun. Sagan usually looks like he's enjoying himself.

I think they're both liked by their competitors.

I think Bernard Hinault was the Tiger Woods of cycling. Not the greatest in his sport but awfully close and mean and tough.

[laupsi]

Tiger Woods is the most visible golfer in the world and Sagan is probably the most visible cyclist. But that's where the similarity ends. Tiger Woods is kind of surly and rarely looks like he's having fun. Sagan usually looks like he's enjoying himself.

I think they're both liked by their competitors.

I think Bernard Hinault was the Tiger Woods of cycling. Not the greatest in his sport but awfully close and mean and tough.

Changed the “fitness landscape”? I think a case can be made that Greg Lemond did a lot to expose the benefits of systematic training for consistent/measured gains.

[FlashUNC]

Fausto Coppi. Because winning Milan-Sanremo by 14 minutes, even in those days, just wasn't done.

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/latestnews/how-to-win-milano-sanremo-by-fausto-coppi/

[XXtwindad]

Fausto Coppi. Because winning Milan-Sanremo by 14 minutes, even in those days, just wasn't done.

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/latestnews/how-to-win-milano-sanremo-by-fausto-coppi/

Interesting. But not really what I'm getting at. The article alluded to the fact that Coppi trained Year-round, but not what that training specifically entailed. More cycling, presumably. What about free weights, flexibility, balance etc. Sagan has all that.

Coppi has the classic cyclist "look" which is very conducive to cycling and not much else. Sagan appears to be much more well-rounded. Just unsure if there were other notables before him ...

[MattTuck]

Cippo comes to mind.

[XXtwindad]

Cippo comes to mind.

Yeah, much closer. But you have to wonder with Cippo, was the preeminent goal vanity or fitness?

[PQJ]

Yeah, much closer. But you have to wonder with Cippo, was the preeminent goal vanity or fitness?

Nah, you really don't have to wonder! He rode bikes to look good. He won races to look better. The fitness was an unintended side effect.

[doubleklobbs]

Chris Hoy? His success is strongly tied to new approaches to sports fitness and nutrition. Other than his own personal domination of the track, I'm sure parts of his approach trickled down through the rest of British Cycling and the various successes of British cyclists over the last 7-10 years.

[yinzerniner]

Interesting. But not really what I'm getting at. The article alluded to the fact that Coppi trained Year-round, but not what that training specifically entailed. More cycling, presumably. What about free weights, flexibility, balance etc. Sagan has all that.

Coppi has the classic cyclist "look" which is very conducive to cycling and not much else. Sagan appears to be much more well-rounded. Just unsure if there were other notables before him ...

Someone's "look" has nothing to do with their efficacy in the given physical endeavor they participate in. Sagan might look different than the majority of cyclists out there but how much his workout effects his overall body composition is debatable, as it's also debatable how his overall body composition really effects his cycling strengths and weaknesses.

The video really only shows a tiny sliver of what he actually does and is more playfully show-offy then really illuminating. That being said he's incredibly flexible and seems to want the world to know how he's incorporating low-weight strength with compound movement, balance and flexibility. I would be interested in seeing if Sagan is the first to use such methods of non-cycling specific workouts to help is overall performance on the bike, kind of like how the non-traditional stuff that Zach Thomas did starting from the late-90's later influenced a slew of later players. Also if you see the workouts of Drew Brees or Tom Brady they look more like something from a Jane Fonda workout video than what you'd imagine an NFL hall of famer would do.

As for how Tiger Woods changed the fitness landscape ... that's often seen as a negative as while he got "buffer" than any golfer before him it's often mentioned that his vain "beach muscles" gains ended up hurting him in the long run. His insistence on increasing bulk while ignoring (or even exacerbating) his back and knee issues cost him a lot if not all of his prime, and he's only now getting back on track. Besides, guys like Nicklaus and Player got into weight training and nutrition well before Woods with hopes that it would help their overall game.

[FlashUNC]

Interesting. But not really what I'm getting at. The article alluded to the fact that Coppi trained Year-round, but not what that training specifically entailed. More cycling, presumably. What about free weights, flexibility, balance etc. Sagan has all that.

Coppi has the classic cyclist "look" which is very conducive to cycling and not much else. Sagan appears to be much more well-rounded. Just unsure if there were other notables before him ...

Your question was who changed the fitness landscape for cyclists. I didn't infer that to mean which cyclist adopted cross training methods first.

That's a very different and more modern answer than which cyclist changed how cyclists train the most. Because that answer is totes Coppi.

[XXtwindad]

Someone's "look" has nothing to do with their efficacy in the given physical endeavor they participate in. Sagan might look different than the majority of cyclists out there but how much his workout effects his overall body composition is debatable, as it's also debatable how his overall body composition really effects his cycling strengths and weaknesses.

The video really only shows a tiny sliver of what he actually does and is more playfully show-offy then really illuminating. That being said he's incredibly flexible and seems to want the world to know how he's incorporating low-weight strength with compound movement, balance and flexibility. I would be interested in seeing if Sagan is the first to use such methods of non-cycling specific workouts to help is overall performance on the bike, kind of like how the non-traditional stuff that Zach Thomas did starting from the late-90's later influenced a slew of later players. Also if you see the workouts of Drew Brees or Tom Brady they look more like something from a Jane Fonda workout video than what you'd imagine an NFL hall of famer would do.

As for how Tiger Woods changed the fitness landscape ... that's often seen as a negative as while he got "buffer" than any golfer before him it's often mentioned that his vain "beach muscles" gains ended up hurting him in the long run. His insistence on increasing bulk while ignoring (or even exacerbating) his back and knee issues cost him a lot if not all of his prime, and he's only now getting back on track. Besides, guys like Nicklaus and Player got into weight training and nutrition well before Woods with hopes that it would help their overall game.

As a personal trainer, I'm well aware that mere appearances don't necessarily equate to actual fitness. I've contributed (and started) a few threads on the subject. I also get your point about Woods, who more than likely overtrained. That said, there's little doubt that he had a tremendous influence on training in the golf world.

My question was if anyone came close to having the "Woods" effect in cycling. Another Forum member mentioned Hoy. That's probably a good as estimation as any ...

[nooneline]

Chris Hoy? His success is strongly tied to new approaches to sports fitness and nutrition. Other than his own personal domination of the track, I'm sure parts of his approach trickled down through the rest of British Cycling and the various successes of British cyclists over the last 7-10 years.

Chris Hoy certainly changed track sprinting in a major way. Or, actually, i don't know that he pioneered everything that changed, or if he was just the winningest in a changing era. But sprinting early in his career, and sprinting late in his career - they were two different sports, and not a lot of people could adapt. Kind of like how MVDP/WVA's cyclocross style has driven some formerly top athletes into obscurity.

[Waldo]

Interesting. But not really what I'm getting at. The article alluded to the fact that Coppi trained Year-round, but not what that training specifically entailed. More cycling, presumably. What about free weights, flexibility, balance etc. Sagan has all that.

Coppi has the classic cyclist "look" which is very conducive to cycling and not much else. Sagan appears to be much more well-rounded. Just unsure if there were other notables before him ...

I'd say the Soviets or the East Germans or some other Eastern European national program. In addition to doping, their training regimes were incredibly innovative and scientific for the time(s).

[oldpotatoe]

You guys don't do this when you first roll out of bed? Looks like my usual morning routine. NOT!

Good for him, I wish I was paid to be in shape and ride a bike.

Know a lot of present and past Gen-U-Ine pros(most really good people, got nuthin' to prove)..but more than a few have said, yes, great to be a paid athlete BUT..rain, snow, cold, windy..tired, sore, nagging little injuries..still gotta get on the bike and ride it. :eek:

[BdaGhisallo]

Chris Hoy? His success is strongly tied to new approaches to sports fitness and nutrition. Other than his own personal domination of the track, I'm sure parts of his approach trickled down through the rest of British Cycling and the various successes of British cyclists over the last 7-10 years.

Did Hoy's approach trickle down through British Cycling or was it that British Cycling's scientists and trainers changed the way their cyclists approached training? I would venture that it's more likely the latter.

[nooneline]

Did Hoy's approach trickle down through British Cycling or was it that British Cycling's scientists and trainers changed the way their cyclists approached training? I would venture that it's more likely the latter.

It wasn't British Cycling. Hoy was really successful through the introduction of true speed endurance in track sprinting - using bigger gears, hitting higher speeds, and holding them for longer. This changed keirin and match sprinting, and it rested on the back of more gym work, lifting heavier, and a variety of methods that were significant departures from how training had been done prior. But my understanding a lot of this was really pioneered/developed/refined by Australia.

Hoy was lucky - he was a kilo rider, and a very good one, so had developed a lot of the building blocks of a good long sprinter right as long sprinting was developed. When the kilo was removed from the olympics (after '04), he turned into a keirin and sprint rider, too, right at the time when it was becoming such that you had to be a good kilo rider to be a good keirin racer.