Silca HX 2 - who makes them?

[Mikej]

Just curious if these are made by PB Swiss?

[unterhausen]

I would be really surprised if they were. Not enough markup. Get some Weras

eta: I never thought about getting the Wera torx keys before now. Not sure it's worth $40 to me, but I'm sure I'll have a weak moment

[FlashUNC]

Maybe Bondhus?

[Mikej]

I would be really surprised if they were. Not enough markup. Get some Weras

eta: I never thought about getting the Wera torx keys before now. Not sure it's worth $40 to me, but I'm sure I'll have a weak moment

Do you have any experience with the Hex-Plus WERA's? Probably going with those, stainless, rainbow rubber coating. Didn't realize the PD Swiss were painted rainbow vs WERA rubber.
I agree with the mark-up answer.

[arik]

Just curious if these are made by PB Swiss?

Made in Taiwan somewhere

[unterhausen]

Do you have any experience with the Hex-Plus WERA's? Probably going with those, stainless, rainbow rubber coating.
yes, they are really nice and work well.

[dave thompson]

Do you have any experience with the Hex-Plus WERA's? Probably going with those, stainless, rainbow rubber coating. Didn't realize the PD Swiss were painted rainbow vs WERA rubber.
I agree with the mark-up answer.

I bought some Hex-Plus WERA to replace a well used set of hex I had for years. The Hex-Plus are rock solid, grip extremely well and work very well in less than perfect sockets of cheap bolts.

[fmradio516]

what i like about the looks of the silca T handles is that it looks like they go deep, like if you need to get into a deep stem bolt. my regular bondhus ones cant reach unless i use the ball side which i cant torque.

[joshatsilca]

Our hex stock is same S2 Steel from same vendor as PBSwiss, we just do the chrome and finishing in Taiwan as we can get a higher quality custom chrome and use a high grip polymer coating on the keys rather than paint which gives you much more grip on the tool when hands are greasy.

Our T Handles are made from forgings from same company that forges for Beta using the same CrV steel, but we custom make the slides from the Swiss S2 steel, which allows us to optimize the design for more cycling specific situations, so our 8mm is optimized for freeing a frozen pedal (10mm less overhang on our tool than a Beta for better control) and our 10mm is optimized for the Campy UltraTorque bolt which is not easily reached by other T handles.

If you aren't buying SILCA I recommend PBSwiss and then Wera. We hear all the time that this is 'too much' for hex keys, but when you consider how frequently they are used and how much damage they can do, it's money well spent. People love paying big money for a cool derailleur hangar alignment tool that gets used once a year, but don't realize that your cheap hex keys are doing damage literally every time you use them.. which is why you will find SILCA, PBSwiss or WERA in every single Pro mechanic's tool box.

Josh

[MaraudingWalrus]

Our hex stock is same S2 Steel from same vendor as PBSwiss, we just do the chrome and finishing in Taiwan as we can get a higher quality custom chrome and use a high grip polymer coating on the keys rather than paint which gives you much more grip on the tool when hands are greasy.

Our T Handles are made from forgings from same company that forges for Beta using the same CrV steel, but we custom make the slides from the Swiss S2 steel, which allows us to optimize the design for more cycling specific situations, so our 8mm is optimized for freeing a frozen pedal (10mm less overhang on our tool than a Beta for better control) and our 10mm is optimized for the Campy UltraTorque bolt which is not easily reached by other T handles.

If you aren't buying SILCA I recommend PBSwiss and then Wera. We hear all the time that this is 'too much' for hex keys, but when you consider how frequently they are used and how much damage they can do, it's money well spent. People love paying big money for a cool derailleur hangar alignment tool that gets used once a year, but don't realize that your cheap hex keys are doing damage literally every time you use them.. which is why you will find SILCA, PBSwiss or WERA in every single Pro mechanic's tool box.

Josh

Thanks for chiming in, Josh!

I just picked up an ypsilon the other day, to go along with my set of HXOnes and the Ti-Torque kit.

Eventually eyeing the set of T-handles, but not yet..

[joshatsilca]

This is from our HX-One development and on our website. We worked with a test lab from the outset to determine what make good keys good and bad ones bad.. this is imagery from them showing a standard inexpensive blue brand hex key which only had hardness of 26-30RC compared to 58-62Rc achievable with S2

"For the HX-One we had to start with the finest S-2 Tool Steel, a shock resistant steel which has been refined by Swiss and German toolmakers for the optimal balance of strength, hardness, shock resistance and dimensional control. S-2 yields stronger tools with much harder surfaces for prolonged tool AND fastener life. The keys are then coated with thin-dense Chrome, a process generally reserved for mold tool components or optical grade surfaces inside molding tools. This coating provides the hardest, most dimensionally stable finish possible on each hex key. Finally, each tool is spray coated with a high-grip, high-visibility textured polymer finish for maximum grip and control. No more dropping your tools with greasy fingers or losing them on your workbench!
http://i63.tinypic.com/l8o48.jpg
40x Magnification shows the damage to both the Ti fastener AND the Cr-V Hex tool after only 28 tighten/loosen cycles. The much higher precision AND harder SILCA S2 key with thin-dense Chrome coating is both 16% harder AND more dimensionally accurate resulting in only minor deformation of the fastener after 50 tighten/loosen cycles. Note the discoloration of the titanium from the black oxide finish of the Cr-V tool transferring to the Ti fastener."

[MaraudingWalrus]

This is from our HX-One development and on our website. We worked with a test lab from the outset to determine what make good keys good and bad ones bad.. this is imagery from them showing a standard inexpensive blue brand hex key which only had hardness of 26-30RC compared to 58-62Rc achievable with S2

"For the HX-One we had to start with the finest S-2 Tool Steel, a shock resistant steel which has been refined by Swiss and German toolmakers for the optimal balance of strength, hardness, shock resistance and dimensional control. S-2 yields stronger tools with much harder surfaces for prolonged tool AND fastener life. The keys are then coated with thin-dense Chrome, a process generally reserved for mold tool components or optical grade surfaces inside molding tools. This coating provides the hardest, most dimensionally stable finish possible on each hex key. Finally, each tool is spray coated with a high-grip, high-visibility textured polymer finish for maximum grip and control. No more dropping your tools with greasy fingers or losing them on your workbench!
http://i63.tinypic.com/l8o48.jpg
40x Magnification shows the damage to both the Ti fastener AND the Cr-V Hex tool after only 28 tighten/loosen cycles. The much higher precision AND harder SILCA S2 key with thin-dense Chrome coating is both 16% harder AND more dimensionally accurate resulting in only minor deformation of the fastener after 50 tighten/loosen cycles. Note the discoloration of the titanium from the black oxide finish of the Cr-V tool transferring to the Ti fastener."



In a similar vein, I quite liked this video on bikerumor (https://bikerumor.com/2018/02/18/video-silca-explains-hex-tool-design-bolt-tolerances/)a while back detailing tolerances, etc.

[FriarQuade]

In a similar vein, I quite liked this video on bikerumor (https://bikerumor.com/2018/02/18/video-silca-explains-hex-tool-design-bolt-tolerances/)a while back detailing tolerances, etc.

The sizing of the tool has just as much to do with tool/fastener wear as the hardness. A really hard tool that's undersized is going to do way more damage than a softer tool that fits perfect. The really hard tool will wear like a brick outhouse but it will eat fasteners for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Hardness is definitely important, but it's not the only thing that matters.

[joshatsilca]

Yes, this is the other aspect you are paying for with nice hex keys, increased QC and tolerance control. I know that we only allow tools in the upper 50% of the ISO tolerance band, so our smallest allowable tool is at ISO nominal, but we do this by using a very slow growing thin-dense chrome plating which grows much slower and harder than normal chrome plating, so it's allows for greater process control.

Interestingly, the PBSwiss tend to be right at or slightly below ISO nominal due to the very thin electroless nickel type of coating that they use, so coming from the same hex bar stock, we typically measure 0.02-0.025mm larger across the flats due to the different finishing.

[KonaSS]

Josh - thanks for sharing. Good info here.

Serious question, are the run of the mill bolts used in components and bike parts made to the same tolerances?

In other words, could you end up with quality tools that don't fit well with crappy bolts?

[-dustin]

Serious question, are the run of the mill bolts used in components and bike parts made to the same tolerances?

In other words, could you end up with quality tools that don't fit well with crappy bolts?
No

Yes

I have way too many hex keys and sets simply because i'm fascinated by the...fascination with high end hex keys. i just don't get it.

but i also have 2 Abbey hanger tools, among my 4 hanger alignment tools.

[FriarQuade]

Josh - thanks for sharing. Good info here.

Serious question, are the run of the mill bolts used in components and bike parts made to the same tolerances?

In other words, could you end up with quality tools that don't fit well with crappy bolts?

Absolutely, it's not at all uncommon for fasteners to be outside ISO spec. You're only talking a couple hundredths of a millimeter but if your hex key is undersized at all it can get ugly quick.

Finding good quality hardware is kind of difficult to be honest.

[unterhausen]

I have way too many hex keys and sets simply because i'm fascinated by the...fascination with high end hex keys. i just don't get it.
about the time everyone decided they needed PB Swiss hex key set, I bought a set of Wiha color-coded hex keys. They are pretty nice. Then I discovered the Wera hex keys and had to have those. It's a sickness, fortunately I have limits.

but I have had a low level of discontent with Bondhus and Allen hex keys for a long time.

I also have a weakness for Wera, (and to a lesser extent Wiha) screwdrivers. All my other screwdrivers are now relegated to paint can opening and use as a low-rent chisel.

[FriarQuade]

about the time everyone decided they needed PB Swiss hex key set, I bought a set of Wiha color-coded hex keys. They are pretty nice. Then I discovered the Wera hex keys and had to have those. It's a sickness, fortunately I have limits.

but I have had a low level of discontent with Bondhus and Allen hex keys for a long time.

I also have a weakness for Wera, (and to a lesser extent Wiha) screwdrivers. All my other screwdrivers are now relegated to paint can opening and use as a low-rent chisel.

If you can only buy one PB Swiss tool, it should be the screwdriver. Their grips are perfect in my hand and have great tips. Their hex keys are good but like Josh mentioned, they are undersized and I feel like there's better options out there for less money. IE Wera hex plus.

[joshatsilca]

I completely agree with the Friar, but be sure to get the SwissGrip ones, the standard handles are nothing special, but the SwissGrip screwdrivers are really exceptional in both shape and feel.

[arik]

I bought this PB swiss set, actually made in switzerland, they are $100 but often go 20% off on the usual holidays:

https://www.shop.pbtools.us/images/3212_LH_10(2).jpg
model# 3212LH-10

but there is also an argument to be made for the Wera Hex plus design for far less $ and available in various finishes, even color coded:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t82jTk3mP5E

https://www.kctoolco.com/wera-022720-metric-stainless-steel-ball-end-hex-key-set/

I'm not sure what case can be made for the artfully presented Italian heritage marketing yet made in Taiwan alternative. It is what it is guys.

[-dustin]

i like the idea of those PBSwiss ones with the knurled shank. problems can arise, though, when the shank is larger diameter than the head. it's not common enough for most folks to worry about, but it's happened to me enough that it'll rule out a set of wrenches immediately if they're my one and only.

[BdaGhisallo]

I recently acquired a full set of Wera Hex Plus T Handles and 1/4" bits for my ratchets and they are fantastic.