OT: 49ers win! Santa Clara public schools lose.

[XXtwindad]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/49ers-win-tax-dispute-Santa-Clara-County-must-13556817.php

It seems as though the Count of Santa Clara is on the hook for $36 million of back taxes to the 49ers, roughly a third of which will come from the public schools. Evidently, the 49ers used a myriad of LLCs to shield non football related profits that would have been taxed by the County.

The City of Oakland is currently exploring ways to sue the soon to be departed Raiders for breach of contract.

Is the Bay Area just an outlier here? I know that the Green Bay Packers have long been seen as the gold standard for community stewardship. Are there others? I know there are quite a few football fans on the Forum, and I'm curious to hear from them ...

[jamesdak]

NFL is a prime example of what is wrong with our tax code. How in the world can anyone legitimately consider them a non-profit organization? :mad::mad::mad:

[Mr. Pink]

Football is doomed, anyway. Just read this this morning:

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/25776964

[Ken Robb]

The Packers are owned by MANY local shareholders rather than one or two bazillionaires so there's not much incentive to maximize profits at the xpense of their community.

[echappist]

NFL is a prime example of what is wrong with our tax code. How in the world can anyone legitimately consider them a non-profit organization? :mad::mad::mad:

along with the various other sport leagues, even the MLS

greedy tosspot owners, most of them

but don't expect most Americans to take a stand and give up watching these forms of entertainment, as it would leave a vacuum in their lives, and they'd not know what to do with it. They may teach you all about bread and circus during the times of the Roman Empire, but few asks "is this what's going on in our life time as well?"

John Oliver did a segment on this, and it's downright scandalous

[54ny77]

It's a contract matter.

49'ers counsel represented them well at the outset (not just in current litigation, but at the time the deal was originally structured), clearly.

Whoever represented Santa Clara should get their ass handed to them. I read that their city attorney resigned, so that's part 1 of typical muni stupidity.

Curious why they name specifically the money as having to come out of school budget specifically. That's gotta be a p.r. move. Why not claw back all the defined pension benefit contribution of every board supervisor who approved the original deal, for example?

[echappist]

It's a contract matter.

49'ers counsel represented them well at the outset (not just in current litigation, but at the time the deal was originally structured), clearly.

Whoever represented Santa Clara should get their ass handed to them. I read that their city attorney resigned, so that's part 1 of typical muni stupidity.

Curious why they name specifically the money as having to come out of school budget specifically. That's gotta be a p.r. move. Why not claw back all the defined pension benefit contribution of every board supervisor who approved the original deal, for example?

arguendo that this would actually be legal, it's a drop it the bucket compared to $36 M...

[54ny77]

totally agree, but it would be as symbolic as saying that they have to take it out of school budgets.

quick look at city website shows 2018/19 budget is 860 million. of that, 247 million is salary & benefit. read that again.

http://santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=61024

lotsa $200k+/year salaries in that there budget.

foxes in the henhouse.


arguendo that this would actually be legal, it's a drop it the bucket compared to $36 M...

[XXtwindad]

along with the various other sport leagues, even the MLS

greedy tosspot owners, most of them

but don't expect most Americans to take a stand and give up watching these forms of entertainment, as it would leave a vacuum in their lives, and they'd not know what to do with it. They may teach you all about bread and circus during the times of the Roman Empire, but few asks "is this what's going on in our life time as well?"

John Oliver did a segment on this, and it's downright scandalous

Always appreciate you chiming in and your willingness to take a strong stand. On a meta level, I agree with you. But organized sports are never going away. They're too interwoven into our cultural fabric.

In our lifetime, the way they are structured will probably change. Most likely starting with football, as the article provided by Mr. Pink demonstrates. Interesting that the insurance industry likens the NFL to asbestos risk.

The 49ers have positioned themselves as the progressive counterpoint to the Tom Snyders and Jerry Jones of the NFL. What a crock.

[cmg]

so the city pays to build the $1.3 billion stadium, at tax payer's expense and now the school districts have to shell $36 Mill? corporate welfare at it's best. poor 49ers. i feel sorry for where ever they move to. this tragedy is coming to a newly constructed stadium near you.

[echappist]

totally agree, but it would be as symbolic as saying that they have to take it out of school budgets.

quick look at city website shows 2018/19 budget is 860 million. of that, 247 million is salary & benefit. read that again.

http://santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=61024

lotsa $200k+/year salaries in that there budget.

foxes in the henhouse.

ugh. that's just disappointing to see

Always appreciate you chiming in and your willingness to take a strong stand. On a meta level, I agree with you. But organized sports are never going away. They're too interwoven into our cultural fabric.

In our lifetime, the way they are structured will probably change. Most likely starting with football, as the article provided by Mr. Pink demonstrates. Interesting that the insurance industry likens the NFL to asbestos risk.

The 49ers have positioned themselves as the progressive counterpoint to the Tom Snyders and Jerry Jones of the NFL. What a crock.

thanks for the kind words. I personally stopped watching U.S. sports for this reason. Pro sports are too often subsidized (by cash-strapped gov't entities, too often), while collegiate sport is an exercise in hypocrisy. I always have been confounded at how pro sport teams (owned by billionaires) receive corporate welfare, while those in needing of welfare have to jump through hoops, in order to demonstrate "character." In contrast, overwhelming majority of English soccer teams pay for their own stadia, often at the cost of the team's ability to compete (e.g. Arsenal and Tottenham).

In a broader sense, I am skeptical of most companies when they take a social stance. I've become quite cynical about the ways politics and businesses operate, and believe that most are doing nothing more than virtue signaling as a form of marketing. Real progressive change happens with hard cash spent on things that don't benefit the company bottom line, and that usually isn't seen when you have sport teams or a company taking up a popular social cause. I'd much rather see teams stop blackmailing cities the way the Rams or the Bengals did and relinquish the tax breaks and stadium deals rather than seeing them take up a cause du jour. The local team in Philly gets labeled as "woke", but the city took out $500M in loans to finance its stadium back in the early 2000s, money that could be used for social services and to improve the sub-par school system. Irony at is finest.

[jlwdm]

so the city pays to build the $1.3 billion stadium, at tax payer's expense and now the school districts have to shell $36 Mill? corporate welfare at it's best. poor 49ers. i feel sorry for where ever they move to. this tragedy is coming to a newly constructed stadium near you.

No. The school district's share of the $36m is $13m.

Jeff

[Lanternrouge]

totally agree, but it would be as symbolic as saying that they have to take it out of school budgets.

quick look at city website shows 2018/19 budget is 860 million. of that, 247 million is salary & benefit. read that again.

http://santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=61024

lotsa $200k+/year salaries in that there budget.

foxes in the henhouse.

Santa Clara County is known for paying its employees well, though that has something to do with pegging the salaries to the local cost of living. According to Zillow, the median home value in Santa Clara County is $1,275,900.

I don't think the issue here is paying public employees well, but rather the county willing to enter into a bad deal just to be able to claim the honor of having a football team.

[Bruce K]

So far as I know, Bob Kraft is the only NFL owner to use his own funds to build his home stadium.

Yes, THE PATRIOTS used private funds to build Gillette Stadium!!!

There was a local “contribution” for this nfrastructure costs but nothing like the hundreds of millions spent to build the whole thing in other cities.

BK

[azrider]

Yes, THE PATRIOTS used private funds to build Gillette Stadium!!!

BK

Ugh.....the Patriots should denounce all that toxic masculinity that’s happening in that stadium

[echappist]

So far as I know, Bob Kraft is the only NFL owner to use his own funds to build his home stadium.

Yes, THE PATRIOTS used private funds to build Gillette Stadium!!!

There was a local “contribution” for this nfrastructure costs but nothing like the hundreds of millions spent to build the whole thing in other cities.

BK

also at least the new LA owners

funny enough, Mr. Kroenke, the owner of the Rams who made the decision to move from St. Louis, is better known across the world as an owner of Arsenal FC. Arsenal built a new stadium and never quite fully recovered its competitiveness. Funny how he knows better than to ask London for money, whereas he was trying to squeeze St. Louis. At least LA told him to pound sand presumably the way London told him to.

[Elefantino]

At least cycling isn't as screwed up as the NFL.

:rolleyes:

[Bruce K]

Ummm, yeah.....

There has been a lot of talk around here about Gillette’s new ad campaign. That story has really nothing to do with the Patriots as Gillette bought naming rights years ago.

I am sure the Patriots would have no problem getting a new deal if Gillette bailed.

BK

[buddybikes]

The infrustructure to support Gillette stadium has resulted in a very successful shopping, eating destination that is busy year round.

Regarding Green Bay, if I am not mistaken, the public ownership makes people feel good, but they have no voting rights. Kind of like a go fund me for the team, although they can probably sell their share that hangs on the wall.

[Bruce K]

I thought Oatriot Place was also privately funded and that the way nfrastructure was limited to roads, power, sewage, and water services, but you may be right.

Either way, a better situation than many communities.

BK

[echappist]

The infrustructure to support Gillette stadium has resulted in a very successful shopping, eating destination that is busy year round.

Regarding Green Bay, if I am not mistaken, the public ownership makes people feel good, but they have no voting rights. Kind of like a go fund me for the team, although they can probably sell their share that hangs on the wall.

do you know if they pay out dividends? At least there's hopes for capital gains, which most Go Fund Me projects do not provide

[unterhausen]

Stadium deals are horrible for cities, but they just can't help themselves.

[teleguy57]

do you know if they pay out dividends? At least there's hopes for capital gains, which most Go Fund Me projects do not provide

Nope. In many ways ownership is more a fancy way of recognizing donors than a financial instrument. Stock has no market value, no dividends or any of the other things you might see in "real" stocks.

[sfo1]

I'm still waiting for San Francisco to get its name back...........

Santa Clara 49ers it is. Might as well be Vallejo 49ers.

We will get Larry to buy a franchise and build a stadium w/his own $ in SOMA>Dogpatch>Vis Valley>etc.

[pbarry]

The Rams new stadium will not be publicly funded:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-rams-5-billion-stadium-is-bigger-than-disneyland-it-might-be-perfect-for-la/2019/01/26/7c393898-20c3-11e9-8e21-59a09ff1e2a1_story.html?utm_term=.d2fa787d7be4

Moreover, after decades in which taxpayers shouldered much of the cost of new sports arenas, the privately funded stadium is being closely watched as a potential new model for first-rate NFL venues built without public subsidies. To succeed, the development’s proponents say, the stadiums of tomorrow can’t exist as stand-alone buildings used for just 10 or 20 NFL home games a year; they must be flexible, multipurpose facilities embedded in complex commercial developments that attract customers and events year-round.

[cmg]

The Rams new stadium will not be publicly funded:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-rams-5-billion-stadium-is-bigger-than-disneyland-it-might-be-perfect-for-la/2019/01/26/7c393898-20c3-11e9-8e21-59a09ff1e2a1_story.html?utm_term=.d2fa787d7be4

While the article does state that it's not publicly funded it doesn't state if it receives tax abatements. Tax abatements could be more expensive than the stadium itself. Which is just like being publicly funded.

[torquer]

The infrustructure to support Gillette stadium has resulted in a very successful shopping, eating destination that is busy year round.

Regarding Green Bay, if I am not mistaken, the public ownership makes people feel good, but they have no voting rights. Kind of like a go fund me for the team, although they can probably sell their share that hangs on the wall.

Patriot Place was developed by Robert Kraft’s real estate/construction arm, so he benefits from that infrastructure twice.
Interesting NY Times article about the early days of Patriot stadiums in Foxboro a few weekends ago. Traffic jams and bathroom problems aplenty.

[notsew]

totally agree, but it would be as symbolic as saying that they have to take it out of school budgets.

quick look at city website shows 2018/19 budget is 860 million. of that, 247 million is salary & benefit. read that again.

http://santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=61024

lotsa $200k+/year salaries in that there budget.

foxes in the henhouse.

God forbid public employees make enough to live in the city the work.

With 1111 employees, thats $222k per employee, assuming 50% of salary for benefits (unions - ask me how i know) that puts the average salary around $150k.

The median house in Santa Clara is $1.4million. According to a random "cost of living" website, Santa Clara cost of living is 40+% more than San Diego (not a cheap place to live either, as I understand it!). So, that translates to $90k a year in San Diego, which, I'd argue, strikes me as a pretty reasonable wage for a professional. I for one would rather local goverment's pay well and attract talented people.

That said, this is a ****ty deal and people should be fired. Who knows what the inside scoop is on this. It only takes a few politicians and high up bureaucrats to force a very expensive mistake. But, lets not hang out a whole profession of people on it.

[Mikej]

The Packers are owned by MANY local shareholders rather than one or two bazillionaires so there's not much incentive to maximize profits at the xpense of their community.

Right, but the shares are actually just for show, they have no control or meaning. It was a revenue stream to raise money. Team is still run different from the big owner teams though.

[Jaybee]

I'm still waiting for San Francisco to get its name back...........

Santa Clara 49ers it is. Might as well be Vallejo 49ers.

We will get Larry to buy a franchise and build a stadium w/his own $ in SOMA>Dogpatch>Vis Valley>etc.


They could just go with "Golden State 49ers", then spend the next few years jumping around the Bay Area to whichever place is hot, leaving behind the loyal fans that were there for the lean years. There's precedent here.