Gross false advertisement from Campagnolo on their newest Scirocco C17 wheelset.

[zmalwo]

https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Wheels/wheel_scirocco

It CLEARLY says "Cup and Cone" bearing design on their official website but when I got these wheels today I found out they are still using the 6903 standard industrial sealed bearings. I bought these wheels only because they were advertised as "Cup and Cone" hub wheels with 35mm rim + alloy braking surface. Now I'm stuck with these ****ty sealed bearing wheels from Probikekit. It's not Probikekit's fault because they weren't the ones giving out misinformation so I don't feel like sending them back to Probikekit costing them shppings even if they pay the return shipping. Luckly there's a Campagnolo service center 10 minutes from where I live right now, do you guys think that they will take them back and give me a pair of Zondas? It seems like their website is full of typos and misinformation like the Bora One disc rear hub length. For most people this might now be a big deal but I personally hate sealed bearing hubs to the core. Needless to say I was very very very disappointed when I got them today.

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa334/brucephoton/20190126_164645_zpsl9ymvojd.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/brucephoton/media/20190126_164645_zpsl9ymvojd.jpg.html)
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa334/brucephoton/20190126_164624_zpsb7qcbsfx.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/brucephoton/media/20190126_164624_zpsb7qcbsfx.jpg.html)
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa334/brucephoton/20190126_164606_zpsennmm3gf.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/brucephoton/media/20190126_164606_zpsennmm3gf.jpg.html)
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa334/brucephoton/20190126_164619_zps5vkhyte4.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/brucephoton/media/20190126_164619_zps5vkhyte4.jpg.html)
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa334/brucephoton/20190126_164656_zpsprufl9mt.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/brucephoton/media/20190126_164656_zpsprufl9mt.jpg.html)

[ultraman6970]

Go and check them out, show them too what the web site says and what you found out.

Campagnolo is a nice brand but sites are italian... that's all I can say... so doesnt surprise me at all the mistakes and typos in their information of their own products.

Either way, maybe you got the wrong year? sometimes from year to year they change the stuff you know.

[zmalwo]

Go and check them out, show them too what the web site says and what you found out.

Campagnolo is a nice brand but sites are italian... that's all I can say... so doesnt surprise me at all the mistakes and typos in their information of their own products.

Either way, maybe you got the wrong year? sometimes from year to year they change the stuff you know.

Yeah I will def take them to the service center. Scirocco C17 wheels came out 2017 It might be true that I got the 2017 ones, but I assume Probikekit has a pretty fast Product turnover rate and the earliest that I saw "cup and cone" for Scirocco c17 on Campy's site was mid summer last year. Now I just need to wait for someone here to confirm that they have a pair of cup and cone Scirocco C17 wheels.

[Peter P.]

Just ship them back to Probikekit; that's what their return policy is for. But do so within their policy effect period (30 days, etc., whatever).

I think going to the local Campy service center is in poor taste.

[oldpotatoe]

Luckly there's a Campagnolo service center 10 minutes from where I live right now, do you guys think that they will take them back and give me a pair of Zondas?

Give you a pair of Zonda's? Nope..
Yes,mistake on the Italian ad, then translated to English, Chinese, Japanese, etc. I can understand that you prefer 'cup and cone' but yikes, 'hate' is a really big word.

Your only options as I see it are
-ride 'em
-sell 'em
-send 'em back..

BTW-2013/4/5/6/7/8/9 Scirocco Wheels/hubs all the same.

Sure, go to the Campag Service center and point it out(where/which is it?) but they are there for manufacturing defects and warranty..Really doubt they will view this as a 'warranty', but let us know. A word of advice..even in the vagueness of the interweb, I'd try to be calm..if you go in there screaming, not sure that will get you much satisfaction.
I see this as a 'mistake', rather than Gross False Advertisement'..plus a little research on different places, like even this forum:eek: and you could have gotten the scoop on these very nice, but not expensive, wheels..

[oldpotatoe]

Just ship them back to Probikekit; that's what their return policy is for. But do so within their policy effect period (30 days, etc., whatever).

I think going to the local Campy service center is in poor taste.

Agree..seems ProBikeKit are co-conspirators too:eek:
https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-wheels/campagnolo-scirocco-c17-clincher-wheelset-2018/11479772.html

[thwart]

For what it’s worth, I have a set of 2009 era Centaur sealed bearing hubs. They have probably seven or eight years of use on them, a good part of that time was on my winter bike (salt, sand, water).

They still function pretty much as new.

[Blown Reek]

For most people this might now be a big deal but I personally hate sealed bearing hubs to the core.

This is the best statement I have ever read on The Paceline.

[peanutgallery]

All this prissiness over a $245 set of wheels?

Live by the internet, die by the internet. OP went looking for a deal and they found one all right...now feelings are hurt and I have to laugh, hurting those feelings even more:)

Go through an authorized dealer in the US and its gonna be different. I'd take those wheels back in a second and fight the good fight to get you the correct ones. Beauty of the LBS

[oldpotatoe]

For most people this might now be a big deal but I personally hate sealed bearing hubs to the core.


This is the best statement I have ever read on The Paceline.


Wonder if the gent hates sealed bearings to the core for
-bottom brackets
-pedals
-pulleys
-headsets....

just wondering...:)

[zzy]

I'm kinda amazed a person putting campy wheels on a Shimano drivetrain cares so much about the bearings

[jamesdak]

Yeah I will def take them to the service center. Scirocco C17 wheels came out 2017 It might be true that I got the 2017 ones, but I assume Probikekit has a pretty fast Product turnover rate and the earliest that I saw "cup and cone" for Scirocco c17 on Campy's site was mid summer last year. Now I just need to wait for someone here to confirm that they have a pair of cup and cone Scirocco C17 wheels.

Hmmm....I always sorta saw PBK as clearing out some of the older stuff at great prices myself. I run several sets of these Scirocco's and find them a great value for a mid range wheel. The price is incredible for such a nice wheel and I've yet to have any issues with any them in actual use.

[charliedid]

Hmmm

I can't tell you what to do but.....maybe it's simply a "cut and paste" error of the description the website and nothing more sinister?

[zmalwo]

I was pretty upset at first but mistakes happens. It's just a miscommunication between their staff rather than intentional false advertisement. Also they don't have any typos on their website and I don't know why I said it, just lots of wrong info. I've been using campy stuff only since my second bike and was always pleased by their quality. I still think Zonda wheels are the gold standard of Alloy wheels. The reason I got these wheels is that where I live in Taiwan right now has a lot of steep decents and tight corners, and the bike I brought with me has a pair of non-treated brake surface carbon wheels. I didn't want to burn the brake track so I got a pair of Sciroccos, but like I said I really don't like seal bearings on a wheel hub. Well I guess I'm gonna send them back and get a pair of Zondas. Also this is actually my first Shimano bike, bought it just days before flying out.

[Black Dog]

Wonder if the gent hates sealed bearings to the core for
-bottom brackets
-pedals
-pulleys
-headsets....

just wondering...:)

Shhhhhhh...don't tell him that all campy freehub bodies use sealed bearings...all of them!!! :eek:

[zmalwo]

Hmmm....I always sorta saw PBK as clearing out some of the older stuff at great prices myself. I run several sets of these Scirocco's and find them a great value for a mid range wheel. The price is incredible for such a nice wheel and I've yet to have any issues with any them in actual use.

They are very nice wheels. Spokes are so much tighter than other brands. No matter how many potholes I go through with my Zondas they never go untrue. Also their freehubs have no play unlike other brands.

[zmalwo]

Wonder if the gent hates sealed bearings to the core for
-bottom brackets
-pedals
-pulleys
-headsets....

just wondering...:)

None of them except headset bearings are constant weight bearing bearings so they don't bother me a bit. Neither do headset bearings because they aren't in a drive train. They can rust, wear and tear as long as I can steer.

[zmalwo]

Shhhhhhh...don't tell him that all campy freehub bodies use sealed bearings...all of them!!! :eek:

It's not a constant weight bearing bearing don't think it matters

[Dave]

The spare parts catalog shows the Scirocco wheels having cartridge bearings, so you got just what you ordered. I have a pair and they work great. The bearings are as smooth as silk. If they ever crap out, replacements are easy to find and inexpensive. You have good wheels for the money.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2356_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo_ 2017_part_C.pdf

I used top of the line Mavic wheels for years, that also have cartridge bearings. Never had a problem with them.

[oldpotatoe]

None of them except headset bearings are constant weight bearing bearings so they don't bother me a bit. Neither do headset bearings because they aren't in a drive train. They can rust, wear and tear as long as I can steer.

I get that but ya know, 'cartridge bearings' are loose ball bearings in a metal cage.
I know you know that and good luck with your process to swap these but these hubs and wheels are very reliable, very well made and very inexpensive. I'll bet that in a blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Some very nice and very expensive hubs have cartridge bearings. The hubs in yer car does too..BUT..if ya don't want them, groovy...:)

Image is loading Ferrari-Rear-Engine-Hub-Bearing-part-MC2991-1

[jamesdak]

They are very nice wheels. Spokes are so much tighter than other brands. No matter how many potholes I go through with my Zondas they never go untrue. Also their freehubs have no play unlike other brands.

Right! Everytime I need to upgrade another bike I think about getting handbuilts. But when you can land Zonda's or Fulcrum Racing 3's for so cheap it's hard to justify the added price of a compatible handbuilt.

[zmalwo]

The spare parts catalog shows the Scirocco wheels having cartridge bearings, so you got just what you ordered. I have a pair and they work great. The bearings are as smooth as silk. If they ever crap out, replacements are easy to find and inexpensive. You have good wheels for the money.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2356_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo_ 2017_part_C.pdf

I used top of the line Mavic wheels for years, that also have cartridge bearings. Never had a problem with them.

I also had a pair of top of the line Mavic wheelset and I didn't like it. This is their 2019 catalog

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2411_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo2 019_part_C_Rev02_12_2018.pdf

It shows Scriroccos using cartridge bearings. So they did make a mistake on their website.

[saab2000]

Of all the things in the world to get mad about this would be quite far down the list, at least for me. Besides, this technical info or specification would have likely been on Campagnolo’s website, free to view before a purchase is made.

[wc1934]

I'm kinda amazed a person putting campy wheels on a Shimano drivetrain cares so much about the bearings

^ This!!!

[zmalwo]

^ This!!!

Well when it comes to wheels I don't use cartridge bearing wheels so that pretty much narrows it down to Shimano or Campagnolo. Shimano hubs can't be adjusted before QR is tightened, freehub has play, spoke tensions aren't tight enough, plastic bearing dust cover constantly rubs against the hub shell. When it comes to hubs no one I mean no one makes them better than Campagnolo.

[lhuerta]

Seriously....what performance or longevity advantage is a cup and cone going to buy u on a $200 set of wheels? These r just training beater wheels just ride them. The sealed cartrides will require less service and provide more longevity and will be easily serviceable when needed. And most importantly u will not b able to discern a performance difference either.

[wc1934]

Well when it comes to wheels I don't use cartridge bearing wheels so that pretty much narrows it down to Shimano or Campagnolo. Shimano hubs can't be adjusted before QR is tightened, freehub has play, spoke tensions aren't tight enough, plastic bearing dust cover constantly rubs against the hub shell. When it comes to hubs no one I mean no one makes them better than Campagnolo.

No argument from me - totally agree. Except that you should be riding full Campy as no one makes components better than them. :)

[saab2000]

It may have been arguable in the 1980s that Campagnolo bearings were the best, but I’d argue that others have caught up. My White Industies hubs are every bit as smooth and resistance-free as any I’ve ever observed from Campagnolo and I’ve had many.

[zmalwo]

Seriously....what performance or longevity advantage is a cup and cone going to buy u on a $200 set of wheels? These r just training beater wheels just ride them. The sealed cartrides will require less service and provide more longevity and will be easily serviceable when needed. And most importantly u will not b able to discern a performance difference either.

Cartridge bearing hubs have so much axle play. It's annoying when the rim rubs against the brake pad every time I pedal out of saddle. The brake pads are far apart enough that the brake lever on my bike have to almost touch the handle bar in order to brake

[oldpotatoe]

Well when it comes to wheels I don't use cartridge bearing wheels so that pretty much narrows it down to Shimano or Campagnolo. Shimano hubs can't be adjusted before QR is tightened, freehub has play, spoke tensions aren't tight enough, plastic bearing dust cover constantly rubs against the hub shell. When it comes to hubs no one I mean no one makes them better than Campagnolo.

No doubt..even Scirocco hubs..:eek:

OK, I'll stop...

GLWS..GoodLuckWithSwap..

[unterhausen]

properly preloaded cartridge bearing hubs don't have that issue at all. Of course, your wheelset costs less than most high-end cartridge bearing hubs, so I am not sure about them. It's not hard or expensive to preload a bearing though.

[jamesdak]

Cartridge bearing hubs have so much axle play. It's annoying when the rim rubs against the brake pad every time I pedal out of saddle. The brake pads are far apart enough that the brake lever on my bike have to almost touch the handle bar in order to brake

????

Like I said, I'm running several sets of these and have thousands of miles on them. I'm not exactly light and I don't experience this at all with the Scirocco's.

:confused:

[zmalwo]

????

Like I said, I'm running several sets of these and have thousands of miles on them. I'm not exactly light and I don't experience this at all with the Scirocco's.

:confused:

well not exactly Sciroccos but the Khamsin wheels I had had this issue with the factory preloaded hubs, which is pretty tight I assume. Maybe I should give it a try.

[zmalwo]

properly preloaded cartridge bearing hubs don't have that issue at all. Of course, your wheelset costs less than most high-end cartridge bearing hubs, so I am not sure about them. It's not hard or expensive to preload a bearing though.

I had a pair of hyperon ultra two and a pair of racing speed 35. All I know is I can set my brake pads much closer with the 2 above and my zonda wheels compare to all the cartridge bearing hub wheels I had, further apart AND rubs.

[jamesdak]

well not exactly Sciroccos but the Khamsin wheels I had had this issue with the factory preloaded hubs, which is pretty tight I assume. Maybe I should give it a try.

That would be my suggestion. I usually opt for Zonda or racing 3 but have these on a few bikes where I want to be able to run at higher speeds and hope the deeper rims will help a bit. I have a set on my old PDG Series Paramount which is one of my heavier bikes. Yet this bike posted some of the best times on long climbs I routinely do so the wheels certainly aren't holding me back.

The mountain in the background in one of my local climbs where this bike with the Scirocco's posted some of my best times going up.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167761694.jpg

[redir]

Hey zmalwo I don't like sealed bearings on hubs either. Cup and cone is the best. I'm with ya ;) :beer: :banana:

[Dave]

I had a pair of hyperon ultra two and a pair of racing speed 35. All I know is I can set my brake pads much closer with the 2 above and my zonda wheels compare to all the cartridge bearing hub wheels I had, further apart AND rubs.

There is no reason for a cartridge bearing hub to have any more play in it than a hub with caged ball bearings. That's what the bearing adjusters are for.

My Sciroccos don't require any more brake clearance than my Zondas. Needing more brake clearance would suggest the need to true the wheel.

[54ny77]

Cup and cone? What does ice cream have to do with bike wheels?

[Burnette]

That would be my suggestion. I usually opt for Zonda or racing 3 but have these on a few bikes where I want to be able to run at higher speeds and hope the deeper rims will help a bit. I have a set on my old PDG Series Paramount which is one of my heavier bikes. Yet this bike posted some of the best times on long climbs I routinely do so the wheels certainly aren't holding me back.

The mountain in the background in one of my local climbs where this bike with the Scirocco's posted some of my best times going up.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167761694.jpg

Slight thread drift but it should be allowed: that is an awesome looking bike! It's one of the best examples of a red/white/blue colorway done right.

[shinomaster]

I have a set of the previous gen Sirocco 35's, and for the price I paid they are amazing wheels. The build quality is fantastic and the are very smooth spinning ( but the ride is quite firm). I think mine are cup and cone as per the reviews I read, but I can't really tell when riding and I've never bothered to check. I bet you would enjoy yours if you just took them for a spin. Or sell them and cough up an extra hundred buck for ZOndas which blow these out of the water in terms of weight, ride quality, and climbing prowess.

[bigbill]

Phil Wood seemed to be ok with sealed bearing hubs. The kind you buy, burn through half a dozen rims, and then put on your kid's bike when they're old enough.

[mtechnica]

Both kinds of bearings can be good or bad, also both the zonda c17 and scirocco c17 are good, the difference between them is not very noticeable except the rims on the zondas are lighter.

[charliedid]

Phil Wood seemed to be ok with sealed bearing hubs. The kind you buy, burn through half a dozen rims, and then put on your kid's bike when they're old enough.

Isn't that the truth.

[54ny77]

There's always the exception: I had a pair of wheels with Phil hubs (with sealed cartridge bearings) and they had a decent amount of axle play. Gorgeous hubs though. Apparently a royal pain to get in and service properly (which they require shipping to company direct), the company was terrific to work with and helpful in diagnosing the issue. I ended up giving the wheels away and the recipient didn't car about the chitter chatter over bumps.


Phil Wood seemed to be ok with sealed bearing hubs. The kind you buy, burn through half a dozen rims, and then put on your kid's bike when they're old enough.

[Buzz Killington]

That blows.

Couldn’t resist :)

[bigbill]

There's always the exception: I had a pair of wheels with Phil hubs (with sealed cartridge bearings) and they had a decent amount of axle play. Gorgeous hubs though. Apparently a royal pain to get in and service properly (which they require shipping to company direct), the company was terrific to work with and helpful in diagnosing the issue. I ended up giving the wheels away and the recipient didn't car about the chitter chatter over bumps.

I changed my own wheel bearings at the ten year point. I got the bearings from PW. Wasn't that big a deal. Bottom brackets get sent in for replacement bearings.

[54ny77]

I forget what the exact issue with mine was, it might have been something quirky with the shell and the adjustability. It was a year or so ago. In any event, they're gone now. The hub shells were like jewels though loved the looks of em. Heavy, but swank.

I changed my own wheel bearings at the ten year point. I got the bearings from PW. Wasn't that big a deal. Bottom brackets get sent in for replacement bearings.

[Red Tornado]

Interesting that a company like Campagnolo, who is not a fly-by-night outfit, can't have someone who knows the non-Italian languages they use on their site proofread things before putting them on there.
Case in point, I used to work for an Italian shower head/shower valve/bath fixture manufacturer. I was in their U.S. office with about a dozen others. Some of the stuff they translated to English was crazy, so there were a few of us who were designated proofreaders who spoke English as a native language and either knew, or had access to, plumbing terms/codes/etc. Nothing, during my tenure there, got on the site in English without one of us checking it and usually making several corrections/changes prior to putting on the website. Necessary especially due to differences in plumbing terminology.
Seems to me they could do this without too much difficulty.

[weisan]

Gross false advertisement from Campagnolo on their newest Scirocco C17 wheelset.

zmalwo pal, I understand your frustrations. But I think your title was grossly overstated, and I am a shimano guy.

[oldpotatoe]

Interesting that a company like Campagnolo, who is not a fly-by-night outfit, can't have someone who knows the non-Italian languages they use on their site proofread things before putting them on there.
Case in point, I used to work for an Italian shower head/shower valve/bath fixture manufacturer. I was in their U.S. office with about a dozen others. Some of the stuff they translated to English was crazy, so there were a few of us who were designated proofreaders who spoke English as a native language and either knew, or had access to, plumbing terms/codes/etc. Nothing, during my tenure there, got on the site in English without one of us checking it and usually making several corrections/changes prior to putting on the website. Necessary especially due to differences in plumbing terminology.
Seems to me they could do this without too much difficulty.

I don't think it's a translation issue, just a sentence included in the text that shouldn't be included. Nothing sinister, IMHO. The advert/part guy made a mistake, the copywrite guy missed it..

On this it's correct..

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_143_Technical_specifications_wheels_range_Camp agnolo_2012.pdf

[oldpotatoe]

zmalwo pal, I understand your frustrations. But I think your title was grossly overstated, and I am a shimano guy.

Post number 5...oh, yeah...

[spinarelli]

You bought the wheels at probikekit.nuff said. They are not your brick and mortar Campagnolo dealer with the latest models. They clear out many generations of wheels. Maybe yours were made before Campagnolo switched to cup n cone but PBK used current text copy.
Found the tech doc on the link you posted in the first post. Yes it does say cup and cone under the description but if you look in the tech documents you find this image. So, yes, you are right, no cup and cone currently.
As far as play, adjusting the preload and replacing bearings is very easy. Lots of videos online walking you through it.

[oldpotatoe]

You bought the wheels at probikekit.nuff said. They are not your brick and mortar Campagnolo dealer with the latest models. They clear out many generations of wheels. Maybe yours were made before Campagnolo switched to cup n cone but PBK used current text copy.
Now, if the cup and cone model doesn’t exist then the fault is on the Campagnolo person who put up the text.
The 2018 wheel catalog says that Scirocco does not come with cup and cone.
As far as play, adjusting the preload and replacing bearings is very easy. Lots of videos online walking you through it.

As far as I can tell, Scirocco wheels were introduced in 1997..and were cup and cone, both hubs. 1998, the front cup and cone, BUT the rear cart bearing. not in the 1999/00/01 catalog..back in 2002, with front still cup and cone, rear cart bearing.
2003, both hubs cart bearing and have stayed that way thru this year.

[spinarelli]

4 pages of comments over a typo for a $200 wheelset. Obviously,
it's snowing so we are stuck inside looking at our computer screens.

As far as I can tell, Scirocco wheels were introduced in 1997..and were cup and cone, both hubs. 1998, the front cup and cone, BUT the rear cart bearing. not in the 1999/00/01 catalog..back in 2002, with front still cup and cone, rear cart bearing.
2003, both hubs cart bearing and have stayed that way thru this year.

[unterhausen]

Obviously,
it's snowing so we are stuck inside looking at our computer screens.
it's either this or intervals on the trainer. Cabin fever is worse this year because I have mileage goals.

I was never that great at taking care of my bikes even when I was wrenching at a bike shop, barefoot cobblers kids effect. Give me sealed bearings.

I really should overhaul the headset on my road bike, pretty sure I put that together back in '81 and I'm not sure I have touched it since. But it's really cold in the garage and it's even cold enough in the basement that I can only stay down there a couple of hours at a time.

[Hellgate]

4 pages of comments over a typo for a $200 wheelset. Obviously,

it's snowing so we are stuck inside looking at our computer screens.Snow? Once I finish watching the CX race on TV I'm going riding. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/40064c34415a805c8d76fb97de36f451.jpg

[shinomaster]

I bought my Scirocco 35's for commuting in the Portland winter so I wouldn't wear out the braking surfaces on my nicer wheels, but they are really beautifully made, and stiff AF. They roll really fast to work which is all down hill or flat, but when I turn around to go home the added rotating weight is apparent though. They seem almost too nice to trash in the winter!

[nmrt]

what i wonder is that if SRAM had made this typo on one of their cheap wheelsets, would the pitchforks have come out on Paceline?

[C40_guy]

Cup and cone? What does ice cream have to do with bike wheels?

Deep dish or soft serve?

[oldpotatoe]

what i wonder is that if SRAM had made this typo on one of their cheap wheelsets, would the pitchforks have come out on Paceline?

probably but then 'some' would mention, "you-all slam sram all the time"...:)

[zmalwo]

I bought my Scirocco 35's for commuting in the Portland winter so I wouldn't wear out the braking surfaces on my nicer wheels, but they are really beautifully made, and stiff AF. They roll really fast to work which is all down hill or flat, but when I turn around to go home the added rotating weight is apparent though. They seem almost too nice to trash in the winter!

Oh now you are just showing off those limited edition color Sciroccos.

[zmalwo]

4 pages of comments over a typo for a $200 wheelset. Obviously,
it's snowing so we are stuck inside looking at our computer screens.

The price really wasn't the issue you know, I specifically ordered them because they were advertised as cup and cone, and 35mm deep. If they made deep rim Shamals again I would have bought them in a heart beat. I just needed a pair of alloy rims for all the steep descents.

[spinarelli]

I understand. If the only reason you bought them is because of this feature I can see how you would be upset.
The price really wasn't the issue you know, I specifically ordered them because they were advertised as cup and cone, and 35mm deep. If they made deep rim Shamals again I would have bought them in a heart beat. I just needed a pair of alloy rims for all the steep descents.

[shinomaster]

oops delete me.

[shinomaster]

Oh now you are just showing off those limited edition color Sciroccos.

They are wicked-sexy, and they roll downhill very quickly.