Ottrott questions...

[Jmaxwel8]

This bike is a stretch for me (as in it will take a miracle for me to get). Its one of those things that I have my fingers crossed. Since I wouldn't be able to see it in advance I am just curious what everyone thinks about it. If it did materialize by some fortune I would like to know as much as possible.

You all are much more knowledgable about these bikes than I am so anything you all can tell me would be cool to know. Is there anything that stands out about it good or bad, ect.. Of course if someone has one similar to this in a 54/55 that they are wanting to move along I would be interested.

[Ozz]

one of the best bikes ever made.....and that is one of the best looking I have ever seen.

You might want to find out if it was custom - might have some weird geometry....ask for the serial number....that will tell you. Or, if owner has the build sheet that will tell you too.

That does have the S3 fork...while a very nice fork, it is not the top of the line F3 fork that was usually put on the Ottrott.

Good luck!

[tv_vt]

Try to get a picture of the fork dropouts. Make sure they don't have the 'window' on the metal dropout (aluminum in the case of the S3). Those forks were recalled by Serotta back in the day. To me it would render the fork worthless if it had the windows on the dropouts.

Otherwise, looks good. Agree that an S3 fork on an Ottrott is a bit of a step down from normal, but possibly no big deal. Just means it has aluminum dropouts rather than titanium.

Any obvious dents/dings in the ti or carbon anywhere?

'course that seat looks unrideable to me...

[cgolvin]

I don't have much to tell you from the picture, other than it is a near doppelganger for mine, just slightly larger.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=214078

Others here know a lot more about the intricacies of various Ottrott models. Mine is a custom GS so doesn't have the fancy suspension bearings at the seat stay/chain stay juncture like the one that huck*this just acquired. Also has the S3 fork rather than the F3, so aluminum not ti dropouts.

Irrespective, it's a fantastic bike with an absolutely wonderful, balanced ride. It climbs and descends, is comfortable over long distances, and is very responsive. I would only change one thing about it: a level top tube. OK, and maybe I'd paint it with the lovely Calfee green.

Buy it if you can, you won't regret it.

[RWeb]

Try to get a picture of the fork dropouts. Make sure they don't have the 'window' on the metal dropout (aluminum in the case of the S3). Those forks were recalled by Serotta back in the day. To me it would render the fork worthless if it had the windows on the dropouts.

When you say “window,” is it a complete cut out in the material or like this?

1697973626

[RWeb]

When you say “window,” is it a complete cut out in the material or like this?

1697973626

Oh...also, it is an F3 fork. I just read in another older thread that the recall was specific to the S3’s. Is that right?

[happycampyer]

In the photo, the decals lols like it says “S3.” In any case, even though it’s blurry when blown up, it looks like the fork has the regular dropouts.

The sticker on the downtube says “GS.” which indicates that it’s a later production, but it doesn’t have the ST bearings in the seatstays as cgolvin stays. Even without the bearings, the Ottrotts were amazing bikes. 54ny77’s bike would be perfect for you...

[Jmaxwel8]

In the photo, the decals lols like it says “S3.” In any case, even though it’s blurry when blown up, it looks like the fork has the regular dropouts.

The sticker on the downtube says “GS.” which indicates that it’s a later production, but it doesn’t have the ST bearings in the seatstays as cgolvin stays. Even without the bearings, the Ottrotts were amazing bikes. 54ny77’s bike would be perfect for you...

Yep you are right his bike would be perfect... I’m guessing that one is probably harder to get than the one in the picture

[Jmaxwel8]

I have looked over the forum for Ottrott Post to learn more about them. Somehow I missed yours. Where did you run across it at?

[PaMtbRider]

Looking at the photo and components I would guess this is a new old stock bike from a dealer. This would make me guess they want way more than what it is worth. It looks to be in the 2010-2012 time frame.

It is a GS model which was the cheaper of the Ottrott models if there ever was such a thing. Still a very nice bike.

Are the components SRAM Force 10 speed? Are the wheels 11 speed compatible?

The frame is worth $1000-$1200. Even if the components are new they appear to be a generation or two old. I'm guessing total value of around $2500.

[Jmaxwel8]

Thanks that’s very helpful information for me. I have hard time establishing a value

[54ny77]

Over my cold dead hands!!!!

:D

in the photo, the decals lols like it says “s3.” in any case, even though it’s blurry when blown up, it looks like the fork has the regular dropouts.

The sticker on the downtube says “gs.” which indicates that it’s a later production, but it doesn’t have the st bearings in the seatstays as cgolvin stays. Even without the bearings, the ottrotts were amazing bikes. 54ny77’s bike would be perfect for you...

[jumpjube]

Jmax,

We have one available --

2004/05 Serotta Ottrott ST, 54 cm square; carbon/titanium frame – carbon tubes are factory-tinted “Copper Harlequin,” which shift from a copper/gold hue to purple depending on angle of lighting; Campy Record 10 carbon throughout; 53/39 crankset (172.5mm); all Ti cassette (13-26); Chris King headset; Phil Wood Magnesium/Ti bottom bracket; Cinelli Neo bars; FSA stem; Wound Up carbon seatpost; Mavic Ksyrium SSC clincher rims; Campy ProFit pedals
$2,450 plus packing/shipping.

PM me with your preferred email address for pix.

[cgolvin]

jumpjube is an A-1 seller — buy with confidence


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glepore]

Its a matter of taste, but I'd prefer the clear/tinted tubes.
I'd also want the ST or SE rear end with the bearings, although the standard rear end is pretty nice.

Good info here : https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=218647

[Jmaxwel8]

Thanks for the link.. I see all the descriptions about the difference in levels but for those of you that own them how much difference does the ST ride over the GS.

I probably should just focus on the ST because I would always wonder what the difference would be if I bought a GS.

I’ve been looking at the black/tinted bikes and I like those as well so maybe someone has one of those they want to get rid of. The one on eBay is getting tempting. I wish it was just the frame so I could build it up the way I want

[happycampyer]

The ST bearing isn't really noticeable just riding along on smooth pavement. Where it is noticeable is in certain conditions, like a fast descents. The rear wheel just feels more "planted." This doesn't make an Ottrott without the ST rear a bad bike, because if the stiffness is a good match for your weight, etc., it will still likely be one of the smoothest, best-riding bikes you will ever ride. But if I had a choice between identical Ottrotts other than the ST, I would get the ST without question.

To give you another example, I have an all-ti Legend that was built for me, and a Legend ST that I bought from a friend whose bikes are a perfect fit for me. When I got the Legend, a lot of what drove me to get the all-ti version was aesthetics—carbon stays on an otherwise ti (or other metal) bike never really appealed to me, and Serotta's double-tapered seatstays are a thing of beauty. The all-ti Legend is hands down the best-riding all-ti bike I've ever ridden, but if I had to be brutally honest, even though I like the looks of the all-ti Legend better, the ST is even better when carving turns, on fast descents, etc.

[tv_vt]

When you say “window,” is it a complete cut out in the material or like this?

1697973626

Yeah, they look like that. There seemed to be some issues with those dropouts and Serotta had some kind of recall around 2009 or so. You want the forks with just smooth metal above the dropout, not with that indented 'window.'

If that pic is from your bike, just don't travel with the frame on a rooftop carrier locked down by the front dropouts. Avoid anything that could twist or torque the dropouts. Normal riding should be ok.

[Brian Smith]

Due to both models being custom made to order at all times, and to model changes over the years, the differences between the Ottrot GS and Ottrot SE models weren't fixed over their production life, but after seeing the photo of the white Ottrot GS in question, I can probably help fill in some details.
The Ottrot GS was indeed sold with the S3 fork and not the F3 fork, and the fork on the bike in question is not one subject to the dropout "soft recall." Only the forks with aluminum dropouts and the "peanut" relief were subject to that recall. Many of those forks were replaced at Serotta dealers locations and some of the recalled forks didn't make it back to the factory for destruction and have ended up on the used market. Those forks subject to the recall are perhaps better avoided but aren't complete garbage in every case, if still in original undamaged condition.
The Ottrot GS, like the one in question here, was made with aluminium seat stay bosses and an aluminum torx-head fastener, as opposed to the titanium seat stay bosses, stainless ball bearing, stainless shoulder bolt, stainless wave washer, and titanium acorn nut used on the SE model. Aluminium "lockout pucks" were an option on the SE and were fitted in place of the ball bearing. The KGSN team member bikes were the first recipients, IIRC, of the lockout pucks. The comparative weight of the two stay boss assemblies was essentially a wash, due to some additional machining work on the titanium bosses to reduce their weight. The shoulder bolt and bearing are standard commercial parts, readily available, which the acorn nut and the torx nut mentioned above are not, and were produced in-house.

This statement isn't strictly indicating a difference between the GS and SE model, however it does have to deal with the magnitude and impacts of the stay boss assembly differences... In my humble opinion, the difference in ride feel between Serottas made with the different stay boss assemblies would be much less detectable as the differences detectable between different Serotta models, or between two same model Serottas with different tube selections, or between a Serotta and a non-Serotta.

Having the carbon tubes painted in a color, particularly in the GS model with aluminium cable stops, offers the durability advantage of a primer coat under the color coats, and was, at least in practice, nearly infinitely less susceptible to the "bubbling" and "flaking" sometimes referred to as "solvent pop" that the clear-paint-only finishes sometimes suffered. Perhaps these days, when the idea that one's bike is visibly made from some carbon fiber is less of a novelty to be displayed, the practicality of this color choice is more relevant.
Finally, that particular Ottrot GS is very reminiscent of the one built for Serotta's Bonnie Mavis. She had aesthetic sensibilities developed outside of the sports equipment world, and we produced a number of bike in this "livery" after presenting it as one of the photographed samples on the Serotta website. I think the look has aged rather well.

I hope those details are of help and the opinions not too alarming. Good luck to the OP if you do decide to make the stretch to purchase the Ottrot GS!

[Jmaxwel8]

So the eBay bike has an F2 fork. Would finding an F3 be a difficult task

[Plum Hill]

I came across a photo of an Ottrott I took in a shop in Davos, Switzerland last year. The NOS frameset belongs to the owner’s wife. Like the one pictured in this thread, it’s painted white, is a GS, and has an S3 fork.
Beautiful bike.
As for tinted tubes, I have red tinted tubes. I prefer that to clear and the other funky color they used. The red is reminiscent of my old burgundy CSi and CRT.

[cgolvin]

Due to both models being custom made to order at all times, <snip>

Brian, as an Ottrott GS owner I really appreciate that you took the time to write this up, thank you.

[CNY rider]

So the eBay bike has an F2 fork. Would finding an F3 be a difficult task

The F2 is an outstanding fork itself.

[Jmaxwel8]

Brian, as an Ottrott GS owner I really appreciate that you took the time to write this up, thank you.

Couldn’t agree more. As I keep looking for a bike I go back to it for reference and to digest the information. It has been really helpful to me

[happycampyer]

<snip>
In my humble opinion, the difference in ride feel between Serottas made with the different stay boss assemblies would be much less detectable as the differences detectable between different Serotta models, or between two same model Serottas with different tube selections, or between a Serotta and a non-Serotta.This point cannot be overstated, and I hope that Brian and others took my earlier comments in this thread and the linked thread as essentially saying the same thing. When I said “if the stiffness is a good match for your weight, etc., it will still likely be one of the smoothest, best-riding bikes you will ever ride,” I was implicitly making the point Brian made that tube selection is key. If Serotta built an Ottrott like a brick *****house because that’s what the customer wanted (and I know someone who worked at a Serotta dealer who did), the ST bearings aren’t going to magically transform the ride. Conversely, if a 200+lb rider picks up a used Ottrott that was built for a 135lb rider, the new owner is probably not going to like it. But that’s the risk of buying any used custom bike.

I would also note that Serotta charged a significant premium for the SE (several thousand dollars) over the GS, which barely exists if at all in the secondhand market. Serotta was pretty inconsistent when it came to adhering its model designations (I know Tim P’s carbon HSG, which was meant to be a stock model, was basically a custom MeiVici by the time he was done) and the model designations changed frequently, but based on these snapshots of the two models (https://wayback.archive.org/web/2011...Road/OttrottSE ; https://wayback.archive.org/web/2011...Road/OttrottGS ) the main differences between the SE and GS were: F3 vs. S3 fork; ST bearings vs none; slightly more refined carbon tubing selection (5th gen vs. 4th gen, whatever that means—Brian, Mike Lopez, care to elaborate?); fancier, pointy lugs (which I never cared for, I thought the points curved in the wrong directions and the simpler lugs looked better); and machined headtube and bottom bracket (although Scott H told me that Serotta stopped machining bottom brackets on Ottrotts and Legends in the last couple of years). The GS was basically 90% of the SE for 2/3 the price. And that 90% blew most bikes away at the time, and still does.

[weisan]

80% at 20% of the price

http://alicehui.com/bike/serotta/IMG_1825.jpg

[93svt96]

This point cannot be overstated, and I hope that Brian and others took my earlier comments in this thread and the linked thread as essentially saying the same thing. When I said “if the stiffness is a good match for your weight, etc., it will still likely be one of the smoothest, best-riding bikes you will ever ride,” I was implicitly making the point Brian made that tube selection is key. If Serotta built an Ottrott like a brick *****house because that’s what the customer wanted (and I know someone who worked at a Serotta dealer who did), the ST bearings aren’t going to magically transform the ride. Conversely, if a 200+lb rider picks up a used Ottrott that was built for a 135lb rider, the new owner is probably not going to like it. But that’s the risk of buying any used custom bike.

I would also note that Serotta charged a significant premium for the SE (several thousand dollars) over the GS, which barely exists if at all in the secondhand market. Serotta was pretty inconsistent when it came to adhering its model designations (I know Tim P’s carbon HSG, which was meant to be a stock model, was basically a custom MeiVici by the time he was done) and the model designations changed frequently, but based on these snapshots of the two models (https://wayback.archive.org/web/2011...Road/OttrottSE ; https://wayback.archive.org/web/2011...Road/OttrottGS ) the main differences between the SE and GS were: F3 vs. S3 fork; ST bearings vs none; slightly more refined carbon tubing selection (5th gen vs. 4th gen, whatever that means—Brian, Mike Lopez, care to elaborate?); fancier, pointy lugs (which I never cared for, I thought the points curved in the wrong directions and the simpler lugs looked better); and machined headtube and bottom bracket (although Scott H told me that Serotta stopped machining bottom brackets on Ottrotts and Legends in the last couple of years). The GS was basically 90% of the SE for 2/3 the price. And that 90% blew most bikes away at the time, and still does.

I got my hands on an SE and the fork is labeled but I couldn't find a lable in the head tube or the bb ? I assume they never marked the frame?

[glepore]

Marked how? You mean with the model designation?

[93svt96]

Stiffness and any other information.

[Brian Smith]

80% at 20% of the price


I can understand why one might want to think that about the Fierte IT and an Ottrot SE, due to the relative availabilities and prices. I think it's rather the misapplication of an old saw regarding some old brazed bikes rather than an assessment that is relative to the bonded metal/carbon bikes. I can't think of a metric by which the California-made tubes were only 25% (1/0.8) better than those, and that's disregarding anything else that was also different.

[TimD]

...

Finally, that particular Ottrot GS is very reminiscent of the one built for Serotta's Bonnie Mavis. She had aesthetic sensibilities developed outside of the sports equipment world, and we produced a number of bike in this "livery" after presenting it as one of the photographed samples on the Serotta website. I think the look has aged rather well.



As others have stated thanks for writing this up. I am without Ottrott at the moment but if I find one that fits (62x60 or 59.5 with HT >= 230) and doesn't have some crazy color scheme I'd buy it.

After getting back on mine after a while I would think the rear tire was deflating. After a few seconds I'd remember the ST rear was doing its magic ST thing and just ride on.

I believe my son and I may have met Bonnie last summer on a crazy hot Cycle Adirondacks weekend tour. She was on a white Ottrott which was just stunning (while my son and I were slumming on our Colorados :)). She was apologetic, saying she didn't ride it enough... Nice lady.

[Elefantino]

As others have stated thanks for writing this up. I am without Ottrott at the moment but if I find one that fits (62x60 or 59.5 with HT >= 230) and doesn't have some crazy color scheme I'd buy it.
No, that one is mine! :D

[tv_vt]

80% at 20% of the price

http://alicehui.com/bike/serotta/IMG_1825.jpg

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, Weisan. I've got a Fierte IT with the original carbon seatstay with no bearings or even a curve to it, but it rides fantastically. Very smooth. These were not custom frames, made in batches, and I would think would work for a wide range of riders, unlike the Ottrott which was always a custom frame with lots of variation in ride quality.

[weisan]

I can understand why one might want to think that about the Fierte IT and an Ottrot SE, due to the relative availabilities and prices. I think it's rather the misapplication of an old saw regarding some old brazed bikes rather than an assessment that is relative to the bonded metal/carbon bikes. I can't think of a metric by which the California-made tubes were only 25% (1/0.8) better than those, and that's disregarding anything else that was also different.

Brian pal, thanks for chiming in, I value your expertise. I am also someone who is very secure and comfortable with my abilities and intelligence so when I see or hear something that I don't understand, I simply say, "I am sorry I don't get it, can you please explain again, maybe in simpler terms or in another way?"

So, I don't get what you are saying. Can you put it more simply, please? Thanks.

[Mike Lopez]

If I recall correctly the early Fierte carbon frames were made with filament wound tubes rather than the uni-tape tubes used on the Ottrott. Different materials and different processes. Brian...Please correct me if I'm mistaken...

After my group in Poway merged with Serotta all the tubing used in IT style frames was made from uni-tape.

The filament wound tubes had lower specific properties in terms of strength and stiffness. To achieve the same mechanicals as a uni-tape tubes they required more material and were heavier. They were also less tunable.

The same is true of the RTM tubes used in the early Ottrotts. When those tubes were replaced by uni-tape tubes the resultant weight went down significantly with no loss in properties.

Looking at the pic posted by weisan those appear to be the early wound tubes. The surface fibers look random as opposed to the uniform look of 3k twill. (maybe just the pic?) The 12k plain weave on the seatstay also puts it in the same era.

Nice bike but not sure I agree with 80% of an Ottrott at 20% of the $$.

[Plum Hill]

What years was the Ottrott produced?

[weisan]

If I recall correctly the early Fierte carbon frames were made with filament wound tubes rather than the uni-tape tubes used on the Ottrott. Different materials and different processes. Brian...Please correct me if I'm mistaken...

After my group in Poway merged with Serotta all the tubing used in IT style frames was made from uni-tape.

The filament wound tubes had lower specific properties in terms of strength and stiffness. To achieve the same mechanicals as a uni-tape tubes they required more material and were heavier. They were also less tunable.

The same is true of the RTM tubes used in the early Ottrotts. When those tubes were replaced by uni-tape tubes the resultant weight went down significantly with no loss in properties.

Looking at the pic posted by weisan those appear to be the early wound tubes. The surface fibers look random as opposed to the uniform look of 3k twill. (maybe just the pic?) The 12k plain weave on the seatstay also puts it in the same era.

Nice bike but not sure I agree with 80% of an Ottrott at 20% of the $$.

Mike pal, thank you for your detailed explanation. I trust your judgment and expertise and Brian's. I have no problem taking back what I said about "80% at 20%."
That was tongue in cheek. I give every bike I got a fair shake and judge them based on their merits regardless of. I don't put them on a pedestal or over-write them too quickly. Each of them are treated on a case-by-case basis.

I have ridden the Fierte a couple of times and put it through its paces, like you said it's a nice bike, not anything special.

[Jmaxwel8]

I haven’t owned a Fierte or an Ottrott but I’m sure they are both fun bikes. Honestly I haven’t ridden many bikes that I didn’t appreciate and have fun on. I especially haven’t ridden a serotta I didn’t like. So I kinda think everyone is right when it comes to either of these bikes.

I do appreciate the debate has furthered my knowledge about the Fierte and the Ottrott.

[54ny77]

Haven't seen this much buzz on the Ottrott in ages. Must be the middle of a cold winter or people are finally understanding the value premise!

[galgal]

Haven't seen this much buzz on the Ottrott in ages. Must be the middle of a cold winter or people are finally understanding the value premise!

Curiously enough, I just got a Moots Vamoots RSL, which has been one of the bikes in the conversation with the Ottrott and while searching came across an Ottrott on eBay in my size. I went with the Moots for many reasons, though that Ottrott is still out there for folks interested in a 52cm....

[Brian Smith]

If I recall correctly the early Fierte carbon frames were made with filament wound tubes rather than the uni-tape tubes used on the Ottrott. Different materials and different processes. Brian...Please correct me if I'm mistaken...


Thanks for chiming in here, Mike. The only thing I would add is that I think when you say "Fierte carbon" above, you mean "Fierte IT," as the Fierte Carbon was the model produced with Poway tubes and carbon lugs. We could probably all confuse each other with names, but I'm sure that in person we'd agree about what we were looking at. Serotta always had a progression and more fluidity of what went into each model than some realize. In Saratoga, these Fierte IT were more commonly called "FE"s, after their serial number convention. In a similar manner, most early Ottrots with RTM tubes were "LI"s, while most Ottrots overall were something else, like an "OS" or "OG." My point is that this is a small correction of words, in an environment of confusing model names, to what you said above, and I wouldn't say you were mistaken about anything.

After my group in Poway merged with Serotta all the tubing used in IT style frames was made from uni-tape.

The filament wound tubes had lower specific properties in terms of strength and stiffness. To achieve the same mechanicals as a uni-tape tubes they required more material and were heavier. They were also less tunable.

The same is true of the RTM tubes used in the early Ottrotts. When those tubes were replaced by uni-tape tubes the resultant weight went down significantly with no loss in properties.

Looking at the pic posted by weisan those appear to be the early wound tubes. The surface fibers look random as opposed to the uniform look of 3k twill. (maybe just the pic?) The 12k plain weave on the seatstay also puts it in the same era.


Yes, I agree, that pictured Fierte IT was made with the "12k" stay and the "filament wound" main tubes. There are also a good number of differences between the titanium, stainless steel, and aluminium "metal parts" used in that model and those used in an Ottrot SE. There were also process differences in the way those two models were constructed. The carbon tube differences between the filament wound tubes and the better tubes are enough to cast doubt on the statement that the Fierte IT was 80% the frame of the Ottrot SE, but the differences between the two models extend much further than the carbon tubes alone. It's for that reason that I wanted to reply to Weisan's comment, even if the comment was possibly not meant seriously nor meant to be relevant to the OP's question.

Nice bike but not sure I agree with 80% of an Ottrott at 20% of the $$.

This 80%/20% statement earlier in this thread was never made by anyone at Serotta, but it is a clear reference to the old saw about two brazed models, the Atlanta and the CSi, wherein the numbers were different, but the meaning was that the Atlanta captured a greater portion of the value of the CSi than its price would suggest. While the statement made sense at the time, in comparing two brand new bikes which were concurrent models available for order, it was not meant to apply to the comparison of new bikes to old bikes, nor used bikes to other used bikes. Taken out of the original context, the CSi/Atlanta comparison statement lacks authority and relevance.
I suggest that it makes even less sense to apply anything analogous to it in the discussion of the metal/carbon bikes, for reasons that Mike and I have mentioned above, and for additional reasons.

[weisan]

Brian pal, thank you for coming back to clarify. I appreciate you being so tactful and patient with me who lack the ability and knowledge to full understand and appreciate the intricate materials/process/metallurgical process involved in making these bikes.

The 80/20 statement is not only inaccurate but a gross over-simplification.

I stand corrected.

[SPOKE]

Regarding the Ottrott ST frames. There was several (3-4 at least) different tubes available for each position of the frame. This variety made the Ottrott extremely “tunable” for the customer. There was even a couple options for the seat stay if my memory is correct. Given all these different tubing choices the one area that didn’t get a bunch of notice from customers or the shops selling the bikes happen to be the chainstay tubes. I remember at least 3 options for chainstays...standard S-bend, Over-sized S-bend (I think these just had a bit more wall thickness), then the Daddy of all chain stays was the Over-sized single bend stays. Frames built with the standard S-bend stays worked well for most riders but if you were over about 150lb or lived your racing life one lap at a time racing crits you may have wished for beefier OS S-bend stays to minimize the movement in the rear of the bike. If you were an aggressive, over 200lb rider then the single bend OS stays were the choice to make. Unfortunately, most shops that sold Serotta’s didn’t have an adequate level of understanding of the frames to actually describe this type of info to a customer.....

[Jmaxwel8]

If I recall correctly the early Fierte carbon frames were made with filament wound tubes rather than the uni-tape tubes used on the Ottrott. Different materials and different processes. Brian...Please correct me if I'm mistaken...

After my group in Poway merged with Serotta all the tubing used in IT style frames was made from uni-tape.

The filament wound tubes had lower specific properties in terms of strength and stiffness. To achieve the same mechanicals as a uni-tape tubes they required more material and were heavier. They were also less tunable.

The same is true of the RTM tubes used in the early Ottrotts. When those tubes were replaced by uni-tape tubes the resultant weight went down significantly with no loss in properties.


Looking at the pic posted by weisan those appear to be the early wound tubes. The surface fibers look random as opposed to the uniform look of 3k twill. (maybe just the pic?) The 12k plain weave on the seatstay also puts it in the same era.

Nice bike but not sure I agree with 80% of an Ottrott at 20% of the $$.

Mike, would you explain which year model Ottrotts would have used the RTM tubes?

[93svt96]

Regarding the Ottrott ST frames. There was several (3-4 at least) different tubes available for each position of the frame. This variety made the Ottrott extremely “tunable” for the customer. There was even a couple options for the seat stay if my memory is correct. Given all these different tubing choices the one area that didn’t get a bunch of notice from customers or the shops selling the bikes happen to be the chainstay tubes. I remember at least 3 options for chainstays...standard S-bend, Over-sized S-bend (I think these just had a bit more wall thickness), then the Daddy of all chain stays was the Over-sized single bend stays. Frames built with the standard S-bend stays worked well for most riders but if you were over about 150lb or lived your racing life one lap at a time racing crits you may have wished for beefier OS S-bend stays to minimize the movement in the rear of the bike. If you were an aggressive, over 200lb rider then the single bend OS stays were the choice to make. Unfortunately, most shops that sold Serotta’s didn’t have an adequate level of understanding of the frames to actually describe this type of info to a customer.....

Thanks for the info