Square taper BB without shoulder on the cups?

[NHAero]

Are there other JIS square taper BBs besides Phil Wood that have shoulder-less cups that allow some fiddling with the left-to-right positioning of the spindle?

[oldpotatoe]

Are there other JIS square taper BBs besides Phil Wood that have shoulder-less cups that allow some fiddling with the left-to-right positioning of the spindle?

Don't think so..I google-fooed that but didn't find one.

You CAN use Phil cups on a UN-72 BB tho...done that before.

[NHAero]

That's an interesting hack, Peter - thanks so much, will take a look at that since I have both.

Don't think so..I google-fooed that but didn't find one.

You CAN use Phil cups on a UN-72 BB tho...done that before.

[AngryScientist]

that IS a good hack. good to know!

[cmbicycles]

Could just remove the shoulder from a shouldered bottom bracket. Probably just a few minutes with a file would be all you need... might not be pretty depending on skill, and make sure its an aluminum cup rather than steel. You could also run into the same issue with Phil BB's in that you need two splined tools to keep the individual sides from turning while installing.

[HTupolev]

Are there other JIS square taper BBs besides Phil Wood that have shoulder-less cups that allow some fiddling with the left-to-right positioning of the spindle?
I think the Velo Orange ones might be. They also sell BB spacers.

[oliver1850]

There were a number of companies making adjustable spindle BBs 25 years ago. American Classic, Bullseye, Grafton, Cook Bros., Paragon, Sampson, Specialized, Stronglight, Syncros, Tioga, TNT, and White Industries all made them. Most of these used adjustable cups with lock rings on each side to allow lateral adjustment. The Cook and White BBs used fixed cups with a spindle that could float, locked in position with set screws. Most had Ti spindles and were priced in the $130-150 range in 1994. Many were offered in 6 or 7 spindle lengths, the Syncros 9. Here's a Syncros:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-SYNCROS-TITANIUM-TI-113mm-SQUARE-TAPER-ENGLISH-BOTTOM-BRACKET/392202189908?hash=item5b51127c54:g:pU0AAOSwrZBcJVh ~:rk:2:pf:0

[nesteel]

Vintagey options would be a Suntour that used sealed bearings (mid '80's), and a Galli roller bearing unit (not sure they made this one in JIS taper)

[Ralph]

I've got an old 111 Campagnolo Centaur (or is it Athena?) BB on one of my bikes. No fixed cup. Like a PW. Can move from side to side a little. Not JIS. See them on E Bay still time to time.

[NHAero]

You folks are a great historical resource!
I'm going to fool with the Shimano BB and Phil Wood cups tonight, that's a simple low cost solution. Then I may look for more obscure vintage products. I'm hoping for a 103mm spindle, and I think there were Dura Ace 103mm BBs in the UN format.
Thanks!

[Joxster]

Something like this???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mavic-610-bottom-bracket-for-631-chainsets-or-similar/254010949305?hash=item3b243b7eb9:g:vusAAOSw-ghcBcE0:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

[Spaghetti Legs]

I've got an old 111 Campagnolo Centaur (or is it Athena?) BB on one of my bikes. No fixed cup. Like a PW. Can move from side to side a little. Not JIS. See them on E Bay still time to time.

Yes the circa early 90’s Athena do but they are Campy/ISO taper. Check out Velo Orange as noted above, I’m pretty sure they have one.

[oldpotatoe]

I've got an old 111 Campagnolo Centaur (or is it Athena?) BB on one of my bikes. No fixed cup. Like a PW. Can move from side to side a little. Not JIS. See them on E Bay still time to time.

Athena.....

[oldpotatoe]

you folks are a great historical resource!
I'm going to fool with the shimano bb and phil wood cups tonight, that's a simple low cost solution. Then i may look for more obscure vintage products. I'm hoping for a 103mm spindle, and i think there were dura ace 103mm bbs in the un format.
Thanks!

un-91...

[oldpotatoe]

Something like this???

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mavic-610-bottom-bracket-for-631-chainsets-or-similar/254010949305?hash=item3b243b7eb9:g:vusAAOSw-ghcBcE0:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

Those pretty much required the BB shell be faced at a 45degree angle. Mavic even made a BB facing tool for just that. Otherwise the lockrings wouldn’t grab a lot of threads on the BB.

[oliver1850]

You folks are a great historical resource!
I'm going to fool with the Shimano BB and Phil Wood cups tonight, that's a simple low cost solution. Then I may look for more obscure vintage products. I'm hoping for a 103mm spindle, and I think there were Dura Ace 103mm BBs in the UN format.
Thanks!

Yes, 7410. Sampson, Syncros and TNT all made 103s with adjustable chainline.

[smontanaro]

Galli roller bearing bottom brackets had adjustable cups on both sides as well. A couple have passed through my parts bin. It's a shame they are hidden away inside the shell. They are really quite handsome. I'd dredge up a pic but I'm on my phone, and Flickr's app kinda sucks.

[NHAero]

I tried the Phil cups on the Shimano and that looks as though it might accomplish what I want. I ended up ordering the top end Tange Seiki off of eBay, the LN-7922 - has to come from the UK so will take a couple of weeks. Less money than a used Dura Ace of uncertain condition. It may work as designed, with the DS shouldered cup, and so I may not need to fool with moving it from its intended location. But as folks have pointed out, there are options!
Thanks much!

[smontanaro]

Galli roller bearing bottom brackets had adjustable cups on both sides as well.

Just for completeness, now that I'm in front of a real computer:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8573/28147442051_3baaa301e6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JThZT2)

[NHAero]

That's pretty cool, have never seen that before.

Just for completeness, now that I'm in front of a real computer:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8573/28147442051_3baaa301e6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JThZT2)

[Hellgate]

1 character...

[NHAero]

See the link in Post #11!

My favorite was the old MAVIC 610 BB. 1697973498

[Hellgate]

See the link in Post #11!Well I'll just delete my post then. Clearly wasted electrons...

[NHAero]

Oh, you misunderstood me - I meant, you can have one again! It wasn't meant at all as a snark

Well I'll just delete my post then. Clearly wasted electrons...

[oliver1850]

Just for completeness, now that I'm in front of a real computer:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8573/28147442051_3baaa301e6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JThZT2)

That looks like it would hold up forever.

[dddd]

The better Shimano cartridge bb's with alloy cups were laterally adjustable once the driveside cup flange snapped off, still leaving enough splines to turn the cup.

I found this out by accident of course.

But if the expected adjustment is to be toward the driveside, all one needs is a fixed cup spacer to fine-tune the chainline.

Of course once we get down to 103mm JIS there will be no narrower JIS bottom brackets to be found, at which point the flange removal option might be useful.

Another nice arcane thing about the Shimano bb's with alloy cups is that they can be "worked" into a Swiss-threaded bottom bracket with no frame damage, and quite happy to stay put. The key here is the robust splines allowing heavy back-and-forth torquing to be applied.