OT: Standing vs Sitting

[XXtwindad]

As a personal trainer, I'm always preaching the merits of getting a stand-up desk, or, even better, getting out of your chair frequently. Extended sitting is antithetical to how we evolved and causes a myriad of fitness related issues.

Has any Forumite made the transition to a stand-up desk, and, if so, have you noticed any general fitness improvements?

[pinkshogun]

I've never had a sit down job but I find extended sitting is uncomfortable both physically and mentally.
When I watch jeopardy in the evening I have to use a heating pad on the lower back to keep loose

[quattro]

I started using a stand up desk about six weeks ago, I like it very much, and I feel it has contributed to my lower back pain I was experiencing in going away, totally! Standing up and working on the computer for 30-45 minute periods during the day is great and easy to get used to. I have been doing a number of lower back exercises and stretches, combined with the standing desk my pain is gone. Highly recommend a standing desk.

quattro

[mt2u77]

I just got one that converts from standing to sitting dropper-post style. I thought I'd sit a lot at first, but I went to 95% standing right away with no issues. My feet get a little sore by the end of the day, but that's it.

I have no idea if it makes a real impact on fitness, but I know I shift around and move a lot more while standing. I don't see how it can be a bad thing. My company offered it to me, so I'm a bit isolated from the cost:benefit assessment. If I was buying it myself, I'd probably just make a permanent elevated stand.

[Dude]

A few years ago I was exclusively standing for about 3 months. I found I leaned to one side or the other and on one occasion my hip was sore. Were there health benefits? I don't know. I'm still alive, so....yes?

Now I sit almost exclusively at work. I get up to go to the bathroom and I'm social so I might be standing a total of 10 minutes throughout the workday. I feel "slouchy" in that I make sure to do some thoracic extensions while at the gym (cat/cow, some twisting, lay backwards across a medicine ball, etc). Am I worse off? I'm still alive, so...no?

To me, it's nothing noticeable. I should caveat this that I am very active (as we probably all are here) and that the things I do to impact my body outside of my chair are more effective and offset the things I do in the chair.

[loxx0050]

I've been wanting to get a standup desk setup that is adjustable to sit also. Mainly I want it to help with my posture since I've been having a lot of stiff neck/upper shoulders the last couple of years. I know my posture when reading stuff sitting on a computer and also staring down at a smart phone/tablet screen is not helping.

Most likely will have to pay out of pocket since I don't think my boss will approve the company fronting for one. But it still might be worth it since as I type my left side is so stiff it is hard to fully stand tall or turn my head too much....this seems to happen every 3-4 months for the last couple of years. When I was younger and worked jobs where I was practically running around all day I recall never having these issues (plus no smart phones to stare at).

[GregL]

My feet get a little sore by the end of the day, but that's it.
That's the biggest thing I've noticed. Supportive shoes are a must! Otherwise, I've found a standing desk comfortable. It breaks up the daily grind and keeps me more alert after lunch.

Greg

[jruhlen1980]

As a personal trainer, I'm always preaching the merits of getting a stand-up desk, or, even better, getting out of your chair frequently. Extended sitting is antithetical to how we evolved and causes a myriad of fitness related issues.

Has any Forumite made the transition to a stand-up desk, and, if so, have you noticed any general fitness improvements?

I had one at my previous job and it was great. I didn't stand all the time, but it really made a difference throughout the day, especially during the afternoon post-lunch low blood sugar window.

My new job requires a doctor's note before they'll get you one (although I could get my own.) I haven't gotten around to doing that yet but I plan to. One of my co-workers who has one says getting a proper standing desk mat makes a big difference re: foot soreness.

I have also recently started making a concerted effort to walk a lap around the office once an hour. I was skeptical at first but it really does seem to make a difference in my energy level and how tired I am at the end of the day -- I'm less tired than if I had been sitting all day.

[kppolich]

In my previous job I was on my feet for 10 hours a day. I was constantly moving and tired at the end of the day. Workouts after work suffered as a result of being fatigued and the motivation was low after a 10 hour day.

Fast forward to today. Different job, office type with maybe 6 hours seated, 2 hours standing. Workouts are better, I have motivation to get ON my feet because i know i'm fresh from sitting and recovering most of the day.

Different strokes for different folks. I know my computer skills are better when seated as well.

[Ralph]

Dr Mirkin on subject. He's not a big fan of stand up desks.....and explains why.

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/sitting-will-not-harm-vigorous-exercisers.html

[C40_guy]

That's the biggest thing I've noticed. Supportive shoes are a must!
Greg

Try going barefoot. When I work at home (which is most of the time), I'm always barefoot. My feet are much happier.

Now I feel funny when I have to stuff my feet into dress shoes...

[benb]

I've had them at work for years...

I use them off and on, never for the whole day.

Newer studies I've seen reported on are saying the benefits are overblown and that it doesn't really compensate for lack of exercise and that sitting isn't as bad as thought if you are exercising.

There are lots of people who stand for work all day and end up with injuries from it over their career.

it also surely doesn't replace exercise (as if that is a problem for people on this site).

But it is a great thing to have if your back hurts from sitting or something, a great option. I would really like to toss my desk at home and get one like I have at work. More options are better, especially for stuff like RSI.

The ones we have right now are from AMQ, they're awesome. Powered, the desk knows it's current height down to 0.1" and displays it on a little LCD, you can adjust it in 0.1" increments and it has 5 programmable memory slots.. so even if 2 people share the desk each can punch in a pre-set standing and seated height.

https://amqsolutions.com/

The ability to adjust the height when your sitting is IMO just as important as being able to stand. Being able to adjust the height of the chair and the height of the desk can really help posture.

I'd agree standing when you're trying to recover from workouts is tough.

There are funny other things around this. At home I stand for a lot of tasks. It drives me INSANE that my kitchen counters & sink are made for someone who is 5'1" or whatever. I'm 6'1", I am bending over/craning my neck anytime I cook or clean. My wife is 5'10" and my son is only 6 and is already > 4 feet tall, if we ever build our dream house or redo our kitchen I'm going to push for higher counters.. even 3-4" would be great.

Quite a few of the standing desk setups I've used/tried at offices have not had a high enough maximum height for people over 6'. They also frequently have dumb things going on like inability to raise the computer monitors to a correct height above the desk when the monitors mount to part of the desk. Having the desk/keyboard at the correct height is only part of the solution.. you need the monitors at the correct height too so that you're not bending your neck down all day.

I purposely built my workbench higher than normal, designed for me for the garage.. it is fantastic. My posture is much better working at the workbench and I can stand there for a long time even on the concrete floor without fatigue.

[Mark McM]

Newer studies I've seen reported on are saying the benefits are overblown and that it doesn't really compensate for lack of exercise and that sitting isn't as bad as thought if you are exercising.

I've been wondering if the idea for standing desks was from conflating the ideas of "being on your feet" and "standing". "Being on your feet" implies moving around, which is very different from "standing" in one place for a long period of time. Also, I think the idea of getting people "on their feet" rather than sitting is from studies of people who get no exercise at all, so just getting them up out of their chairs and moving around is a big improvement.

[benb]

Yah unfortunately for a lot of tasks around the office you can stand at a standing desk but you can't "move around" while working without impacting performance.

Hard to type and move around at all for example... you mostly have to stand really still.

Which is a funny thing.. if we were trying to design input devices during the development of computers that let people move they'd probably look pretty differently.

You can input complex commands into things like a musical instrument while walking/moving/whatever, but not most keyboards or pointing devices.

[mosca]

Isn't there a saying among racers, something like: "why stand when you can sit, why sit when you can lie down?"
It's the one habit I share with the pros.

[Big Dan]

I like mine. Usually stand for a while everyday.

[Clean39T]

Isn't there a saying among racers, something like: "why stand when you can sit, why sit when you can lie down?"
It's the one habit I share with the pros.

https://youtu.be/W__qCFWi1KA?t=81

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3-IXzkU_Su5nlLPdkcfzQIbk8f6XG97eD0iRwUQFyqlI1tyT6OA

[pdmtong]

IMHO whether one is standing or sitting it doesn't matter - as long as you are conscious of your position and posture.

take 30 people in an exercise class...only those doing the motions slowly properly deliberately are benefiting.

I had a stand up desk the past year...the only thing I concluded is i still prefer riding my bike to sitting or standing.

[XXtwindad]

Lots of insiteful responses. Good stuff. Benb thanks for the detailed post.

A few thoughts:

We're still not done worshipping at the altar of our Paleolithic ancestors. Some of it makes sense. The barefoot training falls under this category, for example, and I think there are benefits to this. The small muscles of the feet are rarely trained. I train barefoot at my gym.

But consider this: our Paleo ancestors moved constantly for their "work", either through migrating or rapid "interval" training to pursue/avoid prey. I don't know what they did recreationally, but I'm guessing it wasn't nearly as sedentary as our forms of relaxation.

We've got it backward. We're sedentary (seated) for long hours and try to ameliorate the damage through an hour or two at the gym. That doesn't work.

I like the take of Dr. Vernikos, a former lead scientist at NASA, who likened extended sitting to the bone density loss experienced by astronauts. She suggests doing intermittent resistance exercises throughout the day. (Body weight squats, for example)

http://www.joanvernikos.com/pages/sitting-kills-moving-heals.php

I think a lot of the posters got it right:

Low grade movement throughout the day > standing desk > sitting.

[sparky33]

Standing on a balance board makes the whole standing desk thing work out. I fidget less because because the balancing consumes that fidget energy. My bad left knee feels better in general...maybe the balancing is strengthening the supporting muscles. Feeling more limber...supple like tanwalls.

Deep thinking still happens sitting down. Go figure.

Probably my intake of scotch and bourbon is offsetting the benefits of a standing desk.

[XXtwindad]

Standing on a balance board makes the whole standing desk thing work out. I fidget less because because the balancing consumes that fidget energy. My bad left knee feels better in general...maybe the balancing is strengthening the supporting muscles. Feeling more limber...supple like tanwalls.

Deep thinking still happens sitting down. Go figure.

Probably my intake of scotch and bourbon is offsetting the benefits of a standing desk.

Scotch + bourbon + balance board = unbeatable combination.

[sparky33]

Scotch + bourbon + balance board = unbeatable combination.

It is.

Also, those body weight squats you suggested are working out. Doing a handful of those a few times a day is feeling good. Thanks!
Coworkers are entertained, and the whole thing dovetails nicely with the eccentricity of a tech work place.

[XXtwindad]

It is.

Also, those body weight squats you suggested are working out. Doing a handful of those a few times a day is feeling good. Thanks!
Coworkers are entertained, and the whole thing dovetails nicely with the eccentricity of a tech work place.

Wow! So cool! Thx for sharing! Hopefully it's contagious :)

[93svt96]

For the past 30 years or so I think I may sit at most an hour a day at work. Feel good at 50.

[bicycletricycle]

My office designed a whole line of standing desks and lightly supportive seating for the standing position. We all spent a lot of time on them during the development but after a few years only one person still stands. I don’t really feel that much of a difference either way but I do feel a little more tired at the end of the day when standing. When I was a bike mechanic I stood all day and it was fine but I was active and was often in different positions, I was also a lot younger.

[fixieporteur]

I stand for approximately 50% of my work time. I'm barefoot for approximately 10% of my work time.

Barefoot and standing work well together, too! I use an anti-fatigue mat and am thinking about incorporating a balance board.

[fixieporteur]

My office designed a whole line of standing desks and lightly supportive seating for the standing position. We all spent a lot of time on them during the development but after a few years only one person still stands.

IME, I've seen that desks at a fixed "standing" height get abandoned in workspaces fairly quickly. I prefer to stand, but I'm definitely in the minority.

A lot of workspaces I've been in lately have adjustable height desks and fully supportive chairs with extra height adjustment. In informal observation, these are popular, and approximately 90% of users sit at various heights, vs 10% standing at any given time.

[Seramount]

even tho my employer would have provided one, never felt the need for a stand-up desk...in 15 years at the last office, rarely sat for more than an hour at a time.

there were an infinite number of opportunities during the day to get up and move around.

go the printer, go to the conf room/file room/break room, go confer with a co-worker, take a walk during break times, walk to the car to go to lunch, etc etc etc...

and another reason is that my junk knees don't like standing for long periods.

[AngryScientist]

i have a convertible desk with an electric motor to adjust height at work. i rarely ever stand, doesnt seem to offer any benefit that i can see.

i go too bonkers just sitting at the desk though, so i make it a point to get up and walk around the building at least a few times in the morning and again in the afternoon. it wastes no more time then a surfing the internet for a few minutes and get's my blood flowing at least.

since i travel a lot, the biggest problem i have is the 6 hour flights i seem to always be on. even in an aisle seat and trying to get up once/hour to move it's tough to be anything but sedentary on a long flight. flying sucks.

[XXtwindad]

i have a convertible desk with an electric motor to adjust height at work. i rarely ever stand, doesnt seem to offer any benefit that i can see.

i go too bonkers just sitting at the desk though, so i make it a point to get up and walk around the building at least a few times in the morning and again in the afternoon. it wastes no more time then a surfing the internet for a few minutes and get's my blood flowing at least.

since i travel a lot, the biggest problem i have is the 6 hour flights i seem to always be on. even in an aisle seat and trying to get up once/hour to move it's tough to be anything but sedentary on a long flight. flying sucks.

Perhaps the standing/sitting thing is too much of a stark dichotomy. A standing desk may not be the ultimate solution, but there is no doubt that extended sitting is really, really bad.

There was a study done in Britain sometime in the 1950s. Porters from the double decker busses were analyzed for various health factors along with drivers. Even allowing pre-existing morbidities such as obesity and smoking, the porters were much less at risk for cardiopulmonary diseases.

Interesting that Steve brought up the "fidgeting energy" topic. There's an increasing body of evidence that shows this type of frequent "small" movements confer numerous health benefits.

[XXtwindad]

I've seen a lot of them come and go. The only item (or fad) I think is very worthwhile is the FitBit. I think that's a great invention.

[oldpotatoe]

As a personal trainer, I'm always preaching the merits of getting a stand-up desk, or, even better, getting out of your chair frequently. Extended sitting is antithetical to how we evolved and causes a myriad of fitness related issues.

Has any Forumite made the transition to a stand-up desk, and, if so, have you noticed any general fitness improvements?

Never walk when you can ride.
Never stand when you can sit.
Never sit when you can lie down.
-old Italian bike racer
:)

[sfghbiker]

has anyone tried the walking desk? compact treadmill run at low speed under a standing desk. I am interested in this.

[Hellgate]

One of my grad student classmates works for this company. https://www.lifespanfitness.com/

She swears by them. I'd trip and fall!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[bicycletricycle]

Ours are all adjustable. Seating is adjustable, we purchased every kind of strange or interesting more upright seating solution for research. Almost everyone has still gone back to sitting. Not saying that makes it right, just that standing didn’t blow every bodies minds with health benefits.


IME, I've seen that desks at a fixed "standing" height get abandoned in workspaces fairly quickly. I prefer to stand, but I'm definitely in the minority.

A lot of workspaces I've been in lately have adjustable height desks and fully supportive chairs with extra height adjustment. In informal observation, these are popular, and approximately 90% of users sit at various heights, vs 10% standing at any given time.

[XXtwindad]

Ours are all adjustable. Seating is adjustable, we purchased every kind of strange or interesting more upright seating solution for research. Almost everyone has still gone back to sitting. Not saying that makes it right, just that standing didn’t blow every bodies minds with health benefits.

Thanks for the post BT. I think there's an element to the "health" benefits of standing that is often overlooked: flexibility. Granted, standing for long periods of time can tax and tire your gastrocnemius and soleus muscles (i.e. the "calves") particularly depending on which type of shoes you're wearing.

But extended sitting has disastrous consequences for the hip flexor complex, adductors, hamstrings, and can also impinge rotator cuff/shoulder flexibility.

Cycling, unfortunately, can exacerbate this...

[bicycletricycle]

I am sure it has some benefits and I am also sure that people are capable of choosing the worst of the two options. We do have some relatively active people in the office, I wonder is a more active person benefits less from standing? Well, maybe not benefits less but doesn’t need it as much ?


Thanks for the post BT. I think there's an element to the "health" benefits of standing that is often overlooked: flexibility. Granted, standing for long periods of time can tax and tire your gastrocnemius and soleus muscles (i.e. the "calves") particularly depending on which type of shoes you're wearing.

But extended sitting has disastrous consequences for the hip flexor complex, adductors, hamstrings, and can also impinge rotator cuff/shoulder flexibility.

Cycling, unfortunately, can exacerbate this...

[robertbb]

Swimming laps, 3 times a week, will rid you of back pain as well as increasing your cardiovascular fitness and toning your upper body to match those cycling legs!