Thinking about Made in USA components [Archive]

estuche

01-10-2019, 02:42 PM

I was thinking about the difference between being a US based company vs. actually making/assembling products in the US and it got me thinking...

Have some of the companies who arguably do not make stuff in the US but are affiliated, such as Sram, Ritchey, FSA, Cane Creek, etc, always been that way?

For example, Ritchey has been making stuff for a while now. Would their vintage stems be considered "Made in the USA" whereas their contemporary stuff not so much? Any insights on when the production relocation happened for some of these companies?

pasadena

01-10-2019, 02:46 PM

m4rk540

01-10-2019, 02:49 PM

Cane Creek's EE brakes are made in a residential garage workshop in La Canada, California. Well, they were when their inventor/proprietor was bought out and hired.

zzy

01-10-2019, 02:57 PM

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

I'm pretty sure companies like Trek have done a good job getting around that..

Mark McM

01-10-2019, 03:09 PM

I'm pretty sure companies like Trek have done a good job getting around that..

Politifact backs up Gov. Scott Walker's claim that Trek makes 99% of their bikes overseas:

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/jul/28/scott-walker/scott-walker-says-trek-makes-99-its-bicycles-overs/

Mark McM

01-10-2019, 03:10 PM

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

When I see a sticker that says "Made in USA", the only thing I'm sure of is that the sticker was made in the USA. (And even that I'm not always sure of.)

Bentley

01-10-2019, 03:16 PM

Cane Creek's EE brakes are made in residential garage workshop in La Canada, California. Well, they were when their inventor/proprietor was bought out and hired.

That’s interesting, JPL is in the La Canada area

Mark McM

01-10-2019, 03:18 PM

Have some of the companies who arguably do not make stuff in the US but are affiliated, such as Sram, Ritchey, FSA, Cane Creek, etc, always been that way?

I believe that SRAM actually started out making their products in the USA (back when their main products was GripShift), but as they grew they quickly moved to offshore production.

Ritchey has made a limited number of frames in the US, but as far as I know, all their components have been imported.

Cane Creek began as Dia-Compe USA (the US office of the Dia-Compe corporation), and was the chief importer of Dia-Compe products. When they became independent (and change their name) a few products were made in the USA, but most continued to be imported.

(I don't know anything about FSA.)

On the other hand, there are some bicycle companies that are often thought of as foreign, that actually make products in the US. The majority of DT Swiss spokes sold in the US are actually made in the US (albeit, from imported raw materials). Velocity rims, which started out as an Australian company, moved all their product to the US a few years ago.

pasadena

01-10-2019, 03:22 PM

as for Trek, they can't label Made in USA unless it is.
I'm assuming they now say "Designed in the USA" or some variation

I know the Wisconsin bikes said "Handmade in the USA" but I don't know if they even make those anymore.

I came across this list for actual Made in USA bikes- though I don't know how accurate it is
https://allamericanreviews.com/best-bikes/

ltwtsculler91

01-10-2019, 03:23 PM

I'm pretty sure companies like Trek have done a good job getting around that..

Trek used to make all SLR 700 OCLV carbon frames in Wisconsin, and those would ship with a Made in USA sticker, as they've moved those Emondas and Madones overseas, the lable subtly changed to say Designed in the USA... They do paint all the Project One bikes in Wisconsin though. Im guessing that's now changed to shipping in bare frames from Taiwan.

Clever marketing, hoping that you don't read the label..

That said, companies like Trek, who are headquartered here will put more $$ into local economy since they employ more Americans in higher end positions that pay better...

PaMtbRider

01-10-2019, 03:31 PM

Designed or assembled in the USA is what companies market when they can't meet the Made in USA standard.

Mark McM

01-10-2019, 03:33 PM

I'm surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be) that nobody has mentioned Kent International. They sell their bikes mostly in outlets like Wal-Mart and Target, but they make 400,000 bikes each year in the South Carolina factory.

m4rk540

01-10-2019, 03:39 PM

That’s interesting, JPL is in the La Canada area

Craig Edwards is an architect. His buildings in La Canada are far from space age. More Spanish Mediterranean, the dominant local vernacular.

joosttx

01-10-2019, 03:41 PM

Pauls Components, White Industries, Phil Wood, Spur Cycle bells, King Cage, Wolftooth (I think), I9 (I think) are US Companies which make their parts in the US.

pasadena

01-10-2019, 03:49 PM

that is so cool that ee brakes are from La Canada! That's my local cycling route
and area!
makes me want to buy them now :hello:

Mark McM

01-10-2019, 04:12 PM

Have some of the companies who arguably do not make stuff in the US but are affiliated, such as Sram, Ritchey, FSA, Cane Creek, etc, always been that way?

Included in this list should be Cannondale. They made all their frames, as well as much of their bags and clothing, in the USA, until the thought they should go into the motorcycle business as well. Although their bicycle business remained profitable, the motorcycle venture drove them into bankruptcy, and they were bought by the Canadian company Dorel. Dorel soon shut the US factories and moved all production to Asia. Although Cannondale is often thought of as a US company, not only do they not manufacture in the US anymore, they aren't even owned by a US company.

zzy

01-10-2019, 04:57 PM

I've heard that Trek - the earliest major OEM to build production carbon bikes (the 5000 was back in '92?) - was instrumental in 'helping' the government determine what qualifies as 'MIUSA' for bikes. Only a certain percentage of the finishing had to be done in WI to qualify, along with assembly. The majority of 5xxx and 6xxx OCLV frames during the peak Lance years were pumped out of molds in Taiwan, but most has MIUSA labels on them. Certainly they have always made SOME frames from scratch in WI and still do, but not the huge volume they've claimed over the years. Bob Parlee said that his Z5 frames would qualify as MIUSA even though they were pumped out of molds from a Giant-owned factory, but he didn't want to cheapen his custom brand.

This is primarily conjecture, I admit, but I would love to know the true story. I wish there was more transparency in major OEM production.

MikeD

01-10-2019, 05:16 PM

Trek also put a lot of US bike companies out of business by buying them, taking whatever technology they offered, and shuttering the business; Bontrager, Klein, Fisher, and LeMond. Bastards...

sg8357

01-10-2019, 05:45 PM

You want a Wisconsin bike, buy one from Mr. Schwinn.

Made in Waterford, WI. It says Waterford on the d/t.

jemoryl

01-10-2019, 06:03 PM

Politifact backs up Gov. Scott Walker's claim that Trek makes 99% of their bikes overseas:

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/jul/28/scott-walker/scott-walker-says-trek-makes-99-its-bicycles-overs/

I always assumed that Trek currently makes most of its bikes outside the USA. What I found interesting was that the article says they make some bikes in Germany and Holland? What would those be?

GonaSovereign

01-10-2019, 06:08 PM

CunegoFan

01-10-2019, 06:13 PM

Pauls Components, White Industries, Phil Wood, Spur Cycle bells, King Cage, Wolftooth (I think), I9 (I think) are US Companies which make their parts in the US.

Wolf Tooth makes their stuff in the U.S. They do have a spinoff now, Otso, that sells frames made overseas as well as things Wolf Tooth does not make, like rims, bars, etc.

The Otso stuff looks pretty sweet. Stainless steel gravel frame for $1300 with adjustable dropouts to accommodate different wheel sizes.

Plum Hill

01-10-2019, 06:48 PM

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

In some cases it’s laughable.
We checked into ball caps some years ago. If the assembled cap came in from overseas, it was labeled as being made in the country of origin. If the cap came in with the bill unattached, and the bill was sewn on in the US, it could be labeled as MIUSA.

My mother worked in the apparel industry. The company started importing items in addition to making them here. Supply was so bad an entire order of long sleeve blouses showed up too late in the season. The long sleeves were cut and hemmed in the US plant, and a MIUSA label was sewn in. Along with a union label. Employees not happy.

I recently tried some Keene shoes since they were labeled American Built. As I found out later, the parts come from the Far East and are assembled in Portland (or wherever).

mbrtool

01-10-2019, 06:50 PM

"You want a Wisconsin bike, buy one from Mr. Schwinn.

Made in Waterford, WI. It says Waterford on the d/t."

or an Ellis...just down the road a bit.

Ray

harlond

01-10-2019, 06:51 PM

Wald makes their stuff in Kentucky, don't they?

quickfeet

01-10-2019, 07:11 PM

Nevermind

jemoryl

01-10-2019, 07:23 PM

https://www.trekbikes.com/nl/nl_NL/fietsen/stadsfietsen/c/B551/

Plenty of city bike builders in NL and DE.

Yeah, but I would have guessed that Trek made those in the Far East as well. Did see a lot of Euro made city bikes when I was in Germany, including the German made Kettler and Hungarian made Winora (with Portuguese wheels!) that I rented.

93svt96

01-10-2019, 07:39 PM

93svt96

01-10-2019, 07:41 PM

[QUOTE=93svt96;2483521]Very cool , I will keep that in mind for kids or not so serious riders/QUOTE] sorry my phone sucks

soulspinner

01-11-2019, 06:09 AM

"You want a Wisconsin bike, buy one from Mr. Schwinn.

Made in Waterford, WI. It says Waterford on the d/t."

or an Ellis...just down the road a bit.

Ray

here here

572cv

01-11-2019, 06:47 AM

Pauls Components, White Industries, Phil Wood, Spur Cycle bells, King Cage, Wolftooth (I think), I9 (I think) are US Companies which make their parts in the US.

If you go to the NAHBS you might be able to watch King Cages being made right here in the USA. :)

In a fit of trying hard, the Eriksen was set up with Paul Minimotos, King Cages, White T-11 hubs, and a Spurcycle bell. Also an Eriksen sweetpost. What about the Thompson stem, the Supacaz tape?

El Chaba

01-11-2019, 07:15 AM

Don't forget that back in the 90's Cannondale purchased Magic Motorcycle and started having those cranksets which they marketed as a Coda product....Ugly as sin, but they were a brilliant design and many of the design features have been incorporated in modern cranks (but usually not as well executed)

El Chaba

01-11-2019, 07:19 AM

jemoryl

01-11-2019, 08:19 AM

If you turn back the clock to the 70's, the bike boom produced a handful of US component makers..Weyless, Cool Gear, Bullseye, Hi-E (THAT was a wacky company) and the incredibly brilliant Pino Moroni...

Weyless: my friend had some of their beautiful hubs (cool QR) and I had a pair of their Superwash merino shorts with real chamois. They were based in Rochester, NY and IIRC, were planning to bring out an entire group, which never got very far.

oldpotatoe

01-11-2019, 08:23 AM

hear hear

Sorry, just being pissy..snowing soon..

'pelOton'...:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear

Bob Ross

01-11-2019, 08:36 AM

I came across this list for actual Made in USA bikes- though I don't know how accurate it is
https://allamericanreviews.com/best-bikes/

Masi is made in the USA?!?!

v531xc

01-11-2019, 09:43 AM

Masi is made in the USA?!?!

Only one frame and its not the one shown in the link on that website

estuche

01-13-2019, 10:10 AM

Always so interesting to read about cycling companies' historical journeys

choke

01-13-2019, 10:31 AM

I still have my '88 Cannondale MTB which was US made. It has a number of US parts on it as well; Bullseye hubs and cranks, Grafton brakes, and an Ibis Ti handlebar.

estuche

01-14-2019, 01:14 PM

On the other hand, there are some bicycle companies that are often thought of as foreign, that actually make products in the US. The majority of DT Swiss spokes sold in the US are actually made in the US (albeit, from imported raw materials). Velocity rims, which started out as an Australian company, moved all their product to the US a few years ago.

Fascinated by this discovery, do we know of any other popular foreign companies producing bike parts in America?

Mark McM

01-14-2019, 01:31 PM

Fascinated by this discovery, do we know of any other popular foreign companies producing bike parts in America?

There is the afore mentioned Masi, which started in Italy and moved production to the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masi_Bicycles

Merckx titanium frames were actually made by Litespeed (in Tennessee).

estuche

01-15-2019, 10:09 AM

Anyone knows of a US made chain that is for 7 speeds or better?

Mark McM

01-15-2019, 10:18 AM

Anyone knows of a US made chain that is for 7 speeds or better?

I don't believe there has been a US made derailleur chain ever.

soulspinner

01-16-2019, 06:12 AM

Sorry, just being pissy..snowing soon..

'pelOton'...:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear

I will see your pissy and add a foot of snow this weekend. Gotta retire to where this doesn't happen...………...:fight:

oldpotatoe

01-16-2019, 06:46 AM

I will see your pissy and add a foot of snow this weekend. Gotta retire to where this doesn't happen...………...:fight:

I hear ya brother..oh WAIT, I AM retired...:eek:

martl

01-16-2019, 07:24 AM

I always assumed that Trek currently makes most of its bikes outside the USA. What I found interesting was that the article says they make some bikes in Germany and Holland? What would those be?

Trek bought the cycle branch of the Austrian Villiger Group in 2003 (?). part of that was the former east german "Diamant" factory in Hartmannsdorf, which calls itself the oldest bicycle factory in Germany. until today, bicycles of the Diamant brand are produced there.

Clancy

01-16-2019, 09:52 AM

Most of Thule’s products sold in the U.S. are made in the U.S.

And of course Yakima

charliedid

01-16-2019, 10:02 AM

Most of Thule’s products sold in the U.S. are made in the U.S.

And of course Yakima

THULE yes

Yakima moved production from US. Not sure where

19wisconsin64

01-16-2019, 11:31 AM

Perhaps made in the USA frames are the most all American items for bikes these days. Lots of great builders out there.

Generally I've tried to buy "American"....but have been burned a few times. Once I purchased a new Kestrel carbon fiber frame, directly from Kestrel. On the bicycle it clearly said "California" in a few places. On the underside of the frame was a small sticker that said China. China makes lots of great items for bikes and entire bikes, but I thought somehow in my mind I was supporting someone local.

The older I get, the more I like the idea of a custom frame that really dials in my unique cycling needs.

Great thread!

Mark McM

01-16-2019, 12:19 PM

Perhaps made in the USA frames are the most all American items for bikes these days. Lots of great builders out there.

I'm no so sure of that. With the exception of companies like Allied and Lynskey, most USA frame builders are very low production, and a drop in the bucket in the bike market. There are number of other USA made bike product companies that have much higher production numbers, such as Phil Wood, Chris King, Timbuk2, etc.

And even for USA frames, they are often built from imported raw materials. For example, since True Temper dropped out of tube production, are there any more USA sources for steel bicycle frame tubing?

doomridesout

01-16-2019, 01:01 PM

I'm no so sure of that. With the exception of companies like Allied and Lynskey, most USA frame builders are very low production, and a drop in the bucket in the bike market. There are number of other USA made bike product companies that have much higher production numbers, such as Phil Wood, Chris King, Timbuk2, etc.

And even for USA frames, they are often built from imported raw materials. For example, since True Temper dropped out of tube production, are there any more USA sources for steel bicycle frame tubing?

Vari-Wall is stepping in to the MUSA tubing space.

benb

01-16-2019, 01:25 PM

I wonder where Seven's production #s are compared to Lynskey, Allied, etc..

Same thing with IF.

Both seem to be described as "factories".

Since Trek was mentioned a few things I've read would indicate they don't even have factories overseas, they are basically having Giant manufacture their bikes.. there were pictures a few years ago of an assembly line that was clearly a Giant factory (logos on walls, employee uniforms) and the bikes on the line were Treks.

The other question I'd be super interested in regarding that Mary Burke/Scott Walker 99% thing would be... what % of Trek's 1.5 million bikes that year were sold in the US? I bet overseas sales are significant. If someone in Asia or Europe is buying a Trek is that better or worse if that bike is not made in the US?

93KgBike

01-16-2019, 02:19 PM

The code below identifies American bike and bike part mfctrs for the Department of Commerce. I don't know whether the plants have to be in the 50 states and US territories, or whether they can be elsewhere by treaty/trade agreement and still badged Made in America. Great question.

Non-Motor Vehicle Transportation Equipment Manufacturing as Classifed by the North American Industrial Classification System (NAICS):
336991 - Motorcycle, Bicycle, and Parts Manufacturing

buddybikes

01-16-2019, 02:26 PM

Seven and IF are highly respected brands, production or custom. They happen to have small workforce that is specialized like a designer, welder, finisher, painter.

mt2u77

01-16-2019, 03:13 PM

HED Cycling is located in Roseville, MN. I have no idea how much of their product is made in the USA, but I'm pretty sure they still do at least some assembly and rim extrusion / carbon work in house.

estuche

01-17-2019, 10:08 PM

So say you, 1993, so say you :cool:

http://mombatbicycles.com/693USA1.jpg

Source: http://mombatbicycles.com/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Magic_Motorcycle.html

bfd

01-18-2019, 12:33 AM

The issue with an American made group has always been the derailleurs or the lack thereof. The only ones I can recall were Paul Components. And even then the RD was something like $450 back in what the late 80s/early 90s?! And they didn’t shift as well as a $25 Shimano RD....Maybe Bill Shook (American Classic) or Rodger Durham (Bulleye) might have come up with something but that’s it.

Then there’s the shifters. The only ones I can think of are those Gevenalle (sp?) shifters that are kind of weird. I think those are MUSA....

Good Luck!

GonaSovereign

01-18-2019, 05:00 PM

I don't believe there has been a US made derailleur chain ever.

In the later '90's there was a titanium chain made by a company called Vulcan, IIRC. I thought it was US made, but am not certain. It might also have been vaporware.

PacNW2Ford

01-18-2019, 05:35 PM

There was a White Industries rear derailleur too.

estuche

01-18-2019, 08:43 PM

Also Joe's/Rhino and Precision billet proshift (including shifter).

I think the main things that have never been made are a derailleur chain and a freewheel or cassette but I could (and hope to!) be wrong.

PacNW2Ford

01-19-2019, 09:45 AM

Were the Action-Tec titanium cassettes MUSA?

estuche

01-20-2019, 11:55 AM

Were the Action-Tec titanium cassettes MUSA?

I could not find anything related to that, but I found an email and sent an inquiry so we shall see!

El Chaba

01-20-2019, 07:01 PM

SRP made titanium cassettes (and a whole range of ti hardware)...all very nicely made...

Mark McM

01-20-2019, 08:51 PM

SRP made titanium cassettes (and a whole range of ti hardware)...all very nicely made...

Actually, those titanium cassettes were made by a company in Canada*, and then re-labeled under the SRP name. So they actually fit the original subject of this thread, products sold under US brands that are actually made in another country.

*The company was named Cycle Dynamics, located in Burnaby, British Columbia, and were also sold under their own name as well.

estuche

02-24-2019, 01:49 PM

Actually, those titanium cassettes were made by a company in Canada*, and then re-labeled under the SRP name. So they actually fit the original subject of this thread, products sold under US brands that are actually made in another country.

*The company was named Cycle Dynamics, located in Burnaby, British Columbia, and were also sold under their own name as well.

Cool info, any idea about Actiontech cassettes? Are they MUSA?

Also any knowledge on US or CA made derailleur chains?

Regards,