Various origins of "gravel" bikes

[54ny77]

That Rivendell thread towards the end had some interesting background about the various origins of the current "gravel" bike trend.

For those of you dinosaurs out there, the conversation reminded me of the early-mid 1980's superstar of women's cycling, Jaqui Phelan. She crushed it, and raced offroad with drop bars. I dunno if the frames themselves were actual mtb's, but regardless, the image of those drop bars came to mind. Same with John Tomac, who did similar and is also a superstar of the sport.

Here's a couple of pics.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fa/6f/c6/fa6fc6f89be5e077c7b4a16844351b1c.jpg


https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6064/6088863970_735ac5694b_b.jpg

I am starting to really warm to the idea of spending less time on the road and explore hardpack/gravel type roads more. Anyone in Orange County, CA that does this often feel free to shoot me a PM, I'm all ears for where to go. And of course that means an N+1 to the bike collection....

[John H.]

Though unique- The drop bar thing never caught on for mtb racing.

But here are your genuine OG's- Jobst Brandt and Tom Ritchey. They were gravel in the 70's!

https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/blog/tom-ritchey-a-tribute-to-jobst/

[David Kirk]

From my perspective the only thing new about gravel bikes is the name we use to refer to them now - "gravel bike."

dave

[sg8357]

British graveleers, starting in 1956


https://www.rsf.org.uk/about-us/history-and-beginnings.html

[Spoker]

And this:

[merckx]

The relevant question is, when were gravel/all-road bikes marketed? I think Grant at Bridgestone and Jan at Compass, though separated by a couple of decades, come to mind first.

[kingpin75s]

That Rivendell thread towards the end had some interesting background about the various origins of the current "gravel" bike trend.

For those of you dinosaurs out there, the conversation reminded me of the early-mid 1980's superstar of women's cycling, Jaqui Phelan. She crushed it, and raced offroad with drop bars. I dunno if the frames themselves were actual mtb's, but regardless, the image of those drop bars came to mind. Same with John Tomac, who did similar and is also a superstar of the sport.


Mountain bikes. Yes.

The frame Jaquie Phelan rode was built by Charlie Cunningham. One of the most influential figures in mountain bike history IMHO. Defining key standards. Original partner at WTB which owned much if the intellectual property in MTBing early on. His bikes are some of the most sought after by collectors and one would be my personal definition of a grail bike. I would also ride the crap out of it.

Drop bars are great off road if done right. The Salsa Woodchipper is the best of the bunch IMO and must be setup for primary position in the drops for technical riding.

I think Jaquie was likely using WTB rm-2 bars while Tomac using more road like Cinelli's. I have a set of the bars she ran, like them and will run them on the right build. The Tomac bars or similar are brutal on the wrists in my experience.

Regarding gravel, I think of guys like Bruce Gordon that carried the torch for years as well as Wes Williams and his 28"ers and Monster X bikes that likely (with some Matt Chester thrown in) influenced bikes like the Fargo end of the spectrum.

[David Tollefson]

I remember Davis Phinney saying something about Tomes switching to drop bars on his MTB when he strarted racing with the Slurpies. He went back to flat bars after giving up the pro road scene.

[e-RICHIE]

From my perspective the only thing new about gravel bikes is the name we use to refer to them now - "gravel bike."

dave

Agreed 100%.
It's a SKU.

[saab2000]

Agreed 100%.
It's a SKU.

I remember this man riding away from me on his road bike on some seriously brutal gravel roads in Virginia about 5 or so years ago. Bikes are just bikes.

Be healthy and be well! Looking forward to the next ride!

[buddybikes]

Cyclocross has been around a bit... Other than a high bb, perfect gravel

[pbarry]

From my perspective the only thing new about gravel bikes is the name we use to refer to them now - "gravel bike."

dave

Agreed 100%.
It's a SKU.

Agreed. Long ago, I rode Railroad Grade in Mill Valley a half dozen times on skinny tubies with road gearing. Just one example of where I went on what I had.

However, contempoary gravel bikes offer improved geometry, access to wider gearing, hydro disk brakes, etc., options that were not available or thought of back when. I think the new niche is a good thing as it keeps and gets more people riding more.

[e-RICHIE]

Agreed. Long ago, I rode Railroad Grade in Mill Valley a half dozen times on skinny tubies with road gearing. Just one example of where I went on what I had.

However, contempoary gravel bikes offer improved geometry, access to wider gearing, hydro disk brakes, etc., options that were not available or thought of back when. I think the new niche is a good thing as it keeps and gets more people riding more.

They were not available or thought of back then because it was back then. It's no different than any other aspect of the trade or the sport. But regarding the origins, we rode our bicycles. And when the pavement ended, some of us kept going. We didn't make a thing of it. Or consider it the next niche. That's what industry does. Because they are not here to make bicycles, they are here to make money.

[weisan]

And when the pavement ended, some of us kept going. We didn't make a thing of it. Or consider it the next niche.

This was hit home to me a few years back when I met JP Weigle at D2R2. He was riding this:
http://alicehui.com/bike/D2R2_2016/pals/IMG_5754%20(2).jpg

We were riding side by side for a couple of sections. Hit a downhill section, and he took off. I saw him from behind. It's not the speed that he was going but more like the way he was riding it. And it suddenly occurred to me. He was simply riding his bike.

[charliedid]

From my perspective the only thing new about gravel bikes is the name we use to refer to them now - "gravel bike."

dave

They were not available or thought of back then because it was back then. It's no different than any other aspect of the trade or the sport. But regarding the origins, we rode our bicycles. And when the pavement ended, some of us kept going. We didn't make a thing of it. Or consider it the next niche. That's what industry does. Because they are not here to make bicycles, they are here to make money.

Yeah yeah...

However, this and the previous convo in the Rivendell thread was in fact about the formation of the gravel bike as a niche, purposefully with intent, not about whether people rode bikes on dirt or gravel before the category existed.

Didn't the same thing transpire with Cyclocross bikes? Didn't people race cross on bikes yet to be categorized as such? Did bike builders of the day grumble that bikes were bikes and we don't need no stinkin' Cyclocross bikes?

I ask you. :-)

[e-RICHIE]

Didn't the same thing transpire with Cyclocross bikes? Didn't people race cross on bikes yet to be categorized as such? Did bike builders of the day grumble that bikes were bikes and we don't need no stinkin' Cyclocross bikes?

I ask you. :-)

I have been going to cx races since 1973 (went to Worlds that year too) and the answer (from me) is no. Cyclocross bicycles were made function specific for 1) rider position and, 2) component choices. Both 1 and 2 were specific to the event.

[pbarry]

They were not available or thought of back then because it was back then. It's no different than any other aspect of the trade or the sport. But regarding the origins, we rode our bicycles. And when the pavement ended, some of us kept going. We didn't make a thing of it. Or consider it the next niche. That's what industry does. Because they are not here to make bicycles, they are here to make money.

Thank you for expanding my point more fully. :beer:

I still think more folks are riding now vs. back then because we don't have to ride 42/53 x 13x24 and mafacs with hard blocks. ;)

[joosttx]

As my friend Nick says, "The 'new' gravel bike is the hardtail mountain bike".

here's a 1986-ish Colnago cyclocross bike made for the Dutch Professional Racing team.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2859/34141026181_4449754c79_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4157/34271909955_716e6c7de5_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/34271911195_22097b43b8_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2847/33462157913_08a251c608_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4183/34271929985_b1d734a8e4_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/34114981662_b95e0bd7bd_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2836/34141087991_f243625000_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2838/34114960552_6f3fbac58c_b.jpg

[Joe Remi]

If a "gravel bike" is a road bike marketed as fireroad-able with fatter tires and the brakes to clear them, the Riv Rambouillet gets a shout from 2001. The brochure shows Mark Abele (IIRC) riding dirt on it, which was a decidedly odd pic for a road bike 18 years ago.

Not that it was the first, and e-RITCHIE is right that it's a marketing-driven question which makes no difference to folks who ride the bike they have on the ground it's pointed at.

[joosttx]

Five years ago, we were riding up railroad grade on 25 or 28mm wide tires and compact cranks. What has changed in the recent history is wide tires, big rear cogs, and road frames which accept wide tires. Not saying some of that stuff did not exist in the past. I think the gravel bike became the gravel bike this time is because the offroad bike marketing got too complex and confusing or simply too specialized. People just want to ride their bike offroad, man. So you take you road bike or your light touring bike or your cyclocross bike and have a blast. Then everyone wants bigger tires and someone makes wider tires and then someone makes a road bike that will accept wider tires... and the trend begins. Disc brakes helped this trend too.




Agreed. Long ago, I rode Railroad Grade in Mill Valley a half dozen times on skinny tubies with road gearing. Just one example of where I went on what I had.

However, contempoary gravel bikes offer improved geometry, access to wider gearing, hydro disk brakes, etc., options that were not available or thought of back when. I think the new niche is a good thing as it keeps and gets more people riding more.

[charliedid]

I have been going to cx races since 1973 (went to Worlds that year too) and the answer (from me) is no. Cyclocross bicycles were made function specific for 1) rider position and, 2) component choices. Both 1 and 2 were specific to the event.

By 1973 sure, what about say 1906 or so?

Bikes

[Gummee]

They were not available or thought of back then because it was back then. It's no different than any other aspect of the trade or the sport. But regarding the origins, we rode our bicycles. And when the pavement ended, some of us kept going. We didn't make a thing of it. Or consider it the next niche. That's what industry does. Because they are not here to make bicycles, they are here to make money.

This. While I stuck mainly on the road in the 80s and 90s, when the road ended or if there was a section of dirt to connect a loop, I kept going. I had a great time. ...but... you shoulda heard the whining from my riding buddies!

19c CX/CG combo wasn't the best at that, but I kept going. The 20c Supercomp HDs were slighly better because they weren't as fragile. When I got to 23c I was in heaven.

M

edited to add: I have a bike's worth of those MAFACs if anyone's looking for em.

[Joe Remi]

Five years ago, we were riding up railroad grade on 25 or 28mm wide tires and compact cranks. What has changed in the recent history is wide tires, big rear cogs, and road frames which accept wide tires. Not saying some of that stuff did not exist in the past. I think the gravel bike became the gravel bike this time is because the offroad bike marketing got too complex and confusing or simply too specialized. People just want to ride their bike offroad, man. So you take you road bike or your light touring bike or your cyclocross bike and have a blast. Then everyone wants bigger tires and someone makes wider tires and then someone makes a road bike that will accept wider tires... and the trend begins. Disc brakes helped this trend too.

I think discs and a 1x drivetrain on a dropbar road bike define what we think of as a gravel bike. It's what people picture when they hear the term.