Getting Closer Moots Compact vs Serotta Ottrott

[huck*this]

Well looks like I have narrowed my next bike down to these two. Wondering if anyone has ridden both and can comment on them. Really value your guys input and has never let me down!

Only bummer with the Ottrott is no fork? I have to source a fork and not sure how hard that would be.

Crappy picture of the Ottrott but the guy is local so I would be seeing it and picking it up in person. Moots is a trust worthy guy.

https://scontent.fzty1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41545312_10157213254776062_1732526950360023040_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fzty1-2.fna&oh=69011ea88e98b1665c937a782d985e64&oe=5CCF7FA0

[jtbadge]

I would go Moots over a blended carbon-ti, no-fork Serotta 100% of the time. Moots Compact is an all-time classic. The Serotta is dated aesthetically.

[Matthew]

I have a Compact and a Meivici, but no Ottrott. Love both. Meivici is not custom to me and I think it has the 6.5 stiffness tubing. Not overly stiff but not really a noodle either. Compact is simply a great all around bike for me. I don't feel held back at all on fast group rides and it's comfy all day. Did a 148 mile ride on it a few years ago and felt pretty good after. Not really stiff, but in typical Moots fashion it's got a great ride. Done a handful of hilly centuries on the Serotta too. Also a great riding bike. I know many around here consider the Ottrott the best bike they've ridden so look forward to those folks chiming in. Bottom line for me is this, if I had to keep just one bike it would be the Moots.

[Matthew]

Finding a fork may not be that difficult. I picked up an F3 here on the forum for my Compact actually. Maybe you can source a nice Reynolds?

[ergott]

No Moots experience, but there's nothing dated about the Ottrott. Still pinnacle of technology today with triple butted titanium, carbon to stiffen transfer from front end to the crank and it corners better than any other bike I've ridden. Those ST stays are no gimmick. Only thing you could possible consider outdated is a straight 1 1/8" steerer instead of tapered. Otherwise, nothing current does anything the Ottrott doesn't.

[pdmtong]

I believe the compact is the predecessor of the CR both in geo and tubing?

I am indifferent between my current stock 55 2013 CR and the 2005 Ottrott (8.5 tubes and fork) I once had. Note the ottrott was designed with stage race geo (eTT 56.0 with a 13.6 HT) Both have 8.0cm bar drop.

Both simple builds - the Moots built up between 1/4-1/2 pound lighter than the serotta

I sold the Ottrott in favor of a Parlee Z3c and then sold the Parlee to try the Moots. Each of these rode terrifically. I would choose the one that fits you the closest.

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https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697882533&d=1402803469

[bjf]

Reynolds forks are easy to find.

[laupsi]

I would go Moots over a blended carbon-ti, no-fork Serotta 100% of the time. Moots Compact is an all-time classic. The Serotta is dated aesthetically.

Guess you could say a Stradivarius is dated too

[duff_duffy]

Assuming they both would fit, go with the Ottrott. I’ve owned both and would always pick the Serotta.

[duff_duffy]

I’m dated I guess....I like the look of the Serotta, timeless in my opinion:). That dull bead blast finish on the other hand...
I would go Moots over a blended carbon-ti, no-fork Serotta 100% of the time. Moots Compact is an all-time classic. The Serotta is dated aesthetically.

[KarlC]

Do you know the build info on the Ottrott ?

If not its a bigger risk right ?

.

[the bottle ride]

Ottrott:
I had a gf who had one and we swapped bikes a bunch of times- one of the smoothest rides I have ever had- amazing bike

Time bikes and the ottrott for me felt really different than anything else I have owned-
I look for either all the time.

[huck*this]

Do you know the build info on the Ottrott ?

If not its a bigger risk right ?

.

This is a great question. The owner believe it or not picked it up at a Tag Sale and he never built it up. So to answer, no info on the build other than a tape measure.

Does anyone know how I can find out info about this Ottrott frame?

What everyone is saying about the Moots echos what I heard in my research. Ottrott I hear nothing but praise on the internet, until I made this post and I like hearing both sides. Thank you everyone for your input. Keep it coming as I am processing every word you are saying as my C60 is not an easy bike to let go of.

[Matthew]

Maybe Mike Lopez could chime in and give you some info on that particular Serotta but I believe all of their info was lost at some point during their closure. A ton of Serotta knowledge here, maybe the serial number would help. Should tell you if custom, etc. Honestly don't think you could go wrong with either UNLESS the fit is off.

[thegunner]

listen, you could always get a moots. you won't get that many chances at ottrotts :)

[hokoman]

Maybe you should buy my Meivici that I got from Ron. Skip the carbon and the carbon/ti and go directly to carbon. A lot of people told me I shouldn't be using it with my Kickr. :)

[54ny77]

paging happycampyer.....:banana:

ain't nobody better qualified to answer this question on the forum. literally. :cool:

[Mattbotak]

I would go with the Moots. Haven’t ridden the compact but have owned the SL, RSL & Psychlo X RSL. They retain their value over years of riding. You can try it and when it comes to sell you can switch over to try an Ottrot which will be even cheaper than they are now, as with all carbon frames.

Agree with the point previously made regarding not having the build info on the Ottrott. If you don’t know the intended rider specs it doesn’t matter what experiences others have had with the same frame if you are not a match to the intended rider. I have experience with this first hand......purchased a used Seven Cycles ID8 (also titanium/carbon) without build info. Worst frame I ever rode, it was a noodle. It turns out it was spec’d for a far lighter rider. This was my mistake and is not representative of others experiences with the ID8.

Good luck in your decision and enjoy the search.

[oldpotatoe]

Altho no warranty on pre-owned frames, I would still opt for the frame that has an existing business behind it. PLUS blended frames, IMHO, offered a middle ground ride rather than the best qualities of each used alone. A lot of marketing, IMHO again...serotta saw the Seven and jumped into that 'pond'. Did the same with all carbon..and the rest, as they say, is history. I think if serotta stayed with all ti and steel, they 'might' still be around today..

[tv_vt]

Here's your Serotta fork: https://www.ebay.com/itm/STIFF-Serotta-Full-Carbon-TITANIUM-Fork-CSR-6-5-1-1-8-NR-F3-Ouzo-Pro-Enve-2-0/173688265369?hash=item2870a09a99:g:7i4AAOSw1dtcEUW 9:rk:45:pf:0

Finding one for a frame with a short headtube should be pretty easy. It would be a lot harder if you needed an uncut steerer tube.

From what I've read about the F3 forks, even the 6.5 stiffness should be a good performer.

[Nooch]

Maybe you should buy my Meivici that I got from Ron. Skip the carbon and the carbon/ti and go directly to carbon. A lot of people told me I shouldn't be using it with my Kickr. :)

Oh, you still have this......? :rolleyes:

[Matthew]

The F3 fork I bought here is a 6.5. I put it on my Moots because I hated the Alpha Q it came with. That fork just seemed to flex more than I liked. Put on the F3 and never looked back. 6.5 stiffness seems plenty stiff to me. And I weigh around 190.

[glepore]

They aren't building any more Ottrotts. I have one incoming because a) always wanted to try the st stays and b) I have full carbon and ti already.

If the Ottrott is priced right, its unlikely to lose more value than the Moots. The limiting factor seems to be rim brakes and clearance, which isn't an issue for most here but is in the broader world.

The non tapered fork? Not an issue for me, in fact at my weight a tapered fork can feel too stiff at times.

The only thing that hung me up was the fact that the majority of the Ottrotts were mechanical only, but that's fixable with a good machinist and a few dollars, or etap.

[KarlC]

This is a great question. The owner believe it or not picked it up at a Tag Sale and he never built it up. So to answer, no info on the build other than a tape measure.

Does anyone know how I can find out info about this Ottrott frame?

What everyone is saying about the Moots echos what I heard in my research. Ottrott I hear nothing but praise on the internet, until I made this post and I like hearing both sides. Thank you everyone for your input. Keep it coming as I am processing every word you are saying as my C60 is not an easy bike to let go of.


Moots Compact - You will often read this is one of the best Moots ever made and I dont think they come up for sale very often

Serotta Ottrott - You will often read this is one of the best Frames / Bikes ever made and they come up for sale even less often. But if the fame was made for a 150lbs person and you are 250lbs it may not work out so well.

Exactly what is making you want to sell the C60 what are you looking for ?

.

[Hawker]

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https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697882533&d=1402803469

pdmtong, generally I prefer understated but that Ottrott sure floats my boat. Is that the Kodak livery? Is it still owned by someone here?

[happycampyer]

You have pretty much all of the pros and cons laid out. As someone mentioned, if one of them fits you better, get that one. Assuming the fit is the same, it comes down to weighing the pros and cons (other than fit). Consolidating some of the previous posts and adding a few more thoughts:

The pros for the Moots are that, as a stock frame, the ride quality is predictable. Having owned several Compacts and a standard Vamoots (all SLs), and an RSL (not to mention a couple of Psychlo-Xs and YBBs), I would say that you would be hard pressed to find a much better riding ti bike, especially at the price. Very few frames hold their value as well as Moots do, although the market for rim brake frames has taken a hit across the board. Regardless, you should be able to get back whatever you put into it relatively easily. And if anything were to happen to it (cracks are extremely rare, but they do happen), Moots is still around and could likely fix it. There aren’t really a lot of cons for the Moots. I suppose one con, which is very subjective, is that the stock geometry may or may not appeal to you. I would describe Moots’ stock geometry to be on the neutral-to-quick side. If you have a preference for bikes with slacker headtubes/more trail (not sure about the C60, but that’s a hallmark of Colnago for example), you may prefer other bikes better.

The pros for the Ottrott are, if the tubing is a match for your weight, etc., imo there is a very good chance that you will prefer the ride quality of the Ottrott. When an Ottrott is “just right” (neither over or under built), the ride is indescribably good. But that pro is also a huge potential con: since the only way to get an Ottrott is to buy it used, there’s no way to know the tubing spec. It’s hard to tell from the photo if the seatstays have the ST bearings or not—they make a noticeable difference in ride quality. The geometry is going to be a bit of a gamble too, although the seller should be able to give you some basic measurements. Bottom bracket drop, head- and seat-tube angles, etc. are trickier to measure. If the geometry is classic Serotta/Bedford, it will tend toward the neutral-to-stable side, with a lower bottom bracket and slacker head-tube angle than the Moots. Weight-wise, unless the Ottrott was overbuilt, with the triple butting and carbon tubes, it will be lighter than the Moots. As far as repairability goes, that’s yet another crapshoot depending on what is wrong (crack, crash damage, etc.). I know SoCalSteve was able to get his Ottrott fixed after some pretty significant damage, but I wouldn’t count on that always being the case. If you get the Ottrott and don’t like it and decide to sell it, you should be able to get most if not all of what you put into it, especially if you get the frame and a fork at a reasonable price. It will probably take longer to sell that it would the Moots.

On a side note, I disagree that ti/carbon frames are a dated technology—note that Seven, Firefly and several other builders continue to make ti/carbon frames, and those frames are considered by those builders to be their most advanced frames.

[pdmtong]

pdmtong, generally I prefer understated but that Ottrott sure floats my boat. Is that the Kodak livery? Is it still owned by someone here?
Good eye...This was Hayden Godfrey's back up bike that spent it's life on top of a car or in a van. I am the first non-team owner and I bought it direct from the director sportif robin zellner in 2007.

Geometry is standard stage race go fast sloping 56eTT and built with 8.5 pipes and 8.5 F3 fork. It is the sublime and classic ottrott ride described throughout the forum but with a measure of precision that the 8.5 layup brings when the bike is pushed. It was my go to bike for distance/elevation rides like the levi gran fondo. All day comfort and a pleasure to ride. Kelly Bedford thank you.

Kodak Gallery yellow, Sierra Nevada green, and red accents. I got to see the team race these bikes during the San Francisco Gran Prix in 2005. Eleven times up Fillmore Street was a killer for Ben Jacques.Mayne, Jackson Stewart, Jesse Anthony, Hayden....

Machined head tube, cut out BB shell, ovalized chain stays, serotta post clamp and compression cap. IMHO this represents the closing chapter in Serotta's golden period of racing pedigree.

About the team: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2005/kodak_sierra

Close ups: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=photos/2005/features/kodak_sierra/gallery-kodak_sierra

It is is now with StephenCL, a person who knows and appreciates the history of Serotta racing.

One year Contador through SF on his way to Specialized. A local LBS/chain called Mike's Bikes did a group ride, and AC gave me a "wow" when he saw that frame.

[StanleySteamer]

I would buy the Ottrott and add a F3 fork because of the amazing craftmanship and build quality. You should be able to tell from the size of the tubing if the frame will give meet your needs. I would also look to add a Moots compact at a later date if you wanted to add another bike to your collection. Bottom line is that you can't make a wrong choice with either frame.

[glepore]

Well looks like I have narrowed my next bike down to these two. Wondering if anyone has ridden both and can comment on them. Really value your guys input and has never let me down!



Which one will break and get sent to me cheap for repair?:hello:

[huck*this]

Decision made. Moots in route. Thank yo everyone for their input. Great community. Anyone have a Moots fork in a 45 rake, straight steerer? :)

[oldpotatoe]

Decision made. Moots in route. Thank yo everyone for their input. Great community. Anyone have a Moots fork in a 45 rake, straight steerer? :)

Huzzah!!!:banana::hello:

[Jeff N.]

Don't let indecision get the best of you....BUY BOTH!!!! BUILD BOTH!!! RIDE BOTH!!!

[pdmtong]

Decision made. Moots in route. Thank yo everyone for their input. Great community. Anyone have a Moots fork in a 45 rake, straight steerer? :)

congrats....perhaps harder choice if ottrott had build/geo sheet and fork

[Alaska Mike]

Congrats. I wrote and deleted several posts in this thread, because what other people were saying mirrored my own thoughts.

For my Compact, I went with the full ENVE built (seatpost, stem, handlebars, fork), opting for a 43mm rake, because that's what I had, I rarely notice a couple mm difference either way, and I generally prefer favor quicker handling. It's worked for me so far.

For my RSL, I'm using a current-generation Moots fork with the recommended rake. I don't think I'll notice much difference in handling.

Enjoy the new ride. I have yet to talk to a Compact owner that had buyer's remorse.

[huck*this]

Congrats. I wrote and deleted several posts in this thread, because what other people were saying mirrored my own thoughts.

For my Compact, I went with the full ENVE built (seatpost, stem, handlebars, fork), opting for a 43mm rake, because that's what I had, I rarely notice a couple mm difference either way, and I generally prefer favor quicker handling. It's worked for me so far.

For my RSL, I'm using a current-generation Moots fork with the recommended rake. I don't think I'll notice much difference in handling.

Enjoy the new ride. I have yet to talk to a Compact owner that had buyer's remorse.

Thanks guys! Looking forward to it. This will be dressed in the Moots Flavor with the Cinch post and RSL stem.

So you are saying that it would be ok to go with either a 45 or 43 fork?

[Hawker]

Good eye...This was Hayden Godfrey's back up bike that spent it's life on top of a car or in a van. I am the first non-team owner and I bought it direct from the director sportif robin zellner in 2007.

Geometry is standard stage race go fast sloping 56eTT and built with 8.5 pipes and 8.5 F3 fork. It is the sublime and classic ottrott ride described throughout the forum but with a measure of precision that the 8.5 layup brings when the bike is pushed. It was my go to bike for distance/elevation rides like the levi gran fondo. All day comfort and a pleasure to ride. Kelly Bedford thank you.

Kodak Gallery yellow, Sierra Nevada green, and red accents. I got to see the team race these bikes during the San Francisco Gran Prix in 2005. Eleven times up Fillmore Street was a killer for Ben Jacques.Mayne, Jackson Stewart, Jesse Anthony, Hayden....

Machined head tube, cut out BB shell, ovalized chain stays, serotta post clamp and compression cap. IMHO this represents the closing chapter in Serotta's golden period of racing pedigree.

About the team: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2005/kodak_sierra

Close ups: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=photos/2005/features/kodak_sierra/gallery-kodak_sierra

It is is now with StephenCL, a person who knows and appreciates the history of Serotta racing.

One year Contador through SF on his way to Specialized. A local LBS/chain called Mike's Bikes did a group ride, and AC gave me a "wow" when he saw that frame.


Very nice. Thanks much for the additional info. Maybe AC was saying "wow" when he saw your quads? None the less, how many here have ever had Europro say anything to them? :)

[happycampyer]

Thanks guys! Looking forward to it. This will be dressed in the Moots Flavor with the Cinch post and RSL stem.

So you are saying that it would be ok to go with either a 45 or 43 fork?

When was the Compact built? The older ones were designed with the Ouzo Pro in mind, and the OP had a span of 372 mm. If you go with the Enve, it has a shorter span (367 mm), so the 43 mm or even 40 mm would be better than the 45 mm to make up for the slight increase in headtube angle.

[Alaska Mike]

So you are saying that it would be ok to go with either a 45 or 43 fork?
For me, it was fine. YMMV. I can notice a difference of 5mm, but 2mm is a little too shades of gray for me and I just adapt without thinking about it. If you're buying a new fork, I'd just source the rake they suggest and not think about it.

When building my Compact, I didn't worry about having everything match. What I was looking for was a performance/comfort profile that was of a certain grade that complimented the quality of the frame. I wasn't going to throw cheap junk on it. For a ten year old bike, it commands a lot of respect in a variety of cycling "cliques". Far more than my riding talent does.

When I owned a Vamoots DR, it came with a Cinchpost and the Moots Ti stem. Nicely made and they certainly gave nothing away in performance.The Cinchpost was certainly easier to work with than the older Moots post when it came time to mount the saddle, but they both work well.

Point is, build it however you want it. Enjoy yourself and ride the hell out of it.

[scoobydrew]

Here's a Moots fork that just got posted to the 'bay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moots-Carbon-Road-Bike-Fork-Uncut-1-1-8-Straight-Caliper-100mm-Quick-Release-/323638431974

[bocarider]

I have owned and ridden both of these bikes extensively.

My Ottrott was a total vanity project - carefully designed custom build, full Dura-Ace, top of the line seatpost, stem and bar, Zipp 404s, Quarq power meter crank, everything. I rode that bike 5 days a week for 6 years and loved it. It took me up the Gallibier and Alp d'Huez and was a joy to ride. I loved the ride feel of the bike and could not imagine wanting anything else.

I got it in my head that I wanted a travel bike as my wife and I travel with our bikes a lot, so I got the Moots with S&S Couplers, put very nice Ultegra on it, put on the same seat post and cockpit and migrated whatever wheels I had moved onto at that point. The hope was that it would pack up easily and take up considerably less space and cost less for travel. I took it out for a quick spin after getting it home from the bike shop and I never rode the Ottrott again. The Moots was smoother, faster and more responsive. Oddly, I have since given up on the S&S packing process - I just suck at it and now throw the bike in the big Trico case. I loved the Ottrott, but the Moots, for me, was a discernably better riding bike.

It is very much a matter of personal choice, but having owned and really ridden both bikes a lot, I give the nod to the Moots.